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Old 07-15-2021, 12:23 PM   #1
simek
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Default Forget the Alamo

I know we have a lot of prolific readers, history buffs and seekers of the truth here on the green screen. A newly published book titled "Forget the Alamo" presents a new story of one of the most iconic historical engagements in Texas history. I plan on purchasing and reading it. I'm curious if there are others here that have considered the same.
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Old 07-15-2021, 12:25 PM   #2
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Nope
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Old 07-15-2021, 12:28 PM   #3
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ummmm, Nope....
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Old 07-15-2021, 12:30 PM   #4
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Read the link. Not interested in the book. The title itself is automatic no go. If we forget the Alamo, we have lost a huge part of our heritage and what sets Texas apart from the rest of the nation. Not buying into the "woke" crowd.
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Old 07-15-2021, 12:32 PM   #5
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I won't buy/read that carp. I also wish there was never any slavery in our country. Can you just imagine that?
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Old 07-15-2021, 12:35 PM   #6
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I won't buy/read that carp.
Definitely seems fishy.
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Old 07-15-2021, 12:47 PM   #7
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Sounds like the recent Time Magazine article I saw, basically refuting the heroics of the men who fought there, stating there was a large portion who ran rather than fight, that Crockett surrendered in the thick of the battle, and that the Texans were basically radicals who simply didn’t want to pay their taxes in the new country they had moved into. Made my blood boil reading it. Trash

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.co...hs/%3famp=true
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Old 07-15-2021, 12:47 PM   #8
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Definitely seems fishy.
Yeah, I got an infraction for trying to get around the swear monitor, even though others have gotten away with worse.
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Old 07-15-2021, 12:51 PM   #9
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No way
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Old 07-15-2021, 12:53 PM   #10
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Yeah, I got an infraction for trying to get around the swear monitor, even though others have gotten away with worse.
Ahh, just struck me funny. I'm usually posting from my phone so mine are generally filled with typos.
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Old 07-15-2021, 12:58 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Daniel75 View Post
Sounds like the recent Time Magazine article I saw, basically refuting the heroics of the men who fought there, stating there was a large portion who ran rather than fight, that Crockett surrendered in the thick of the battle, and that the Texans were basically radicals who simply didnít want to pay their taxes in the new country they had moved into. Made my blood boil reading it. Trash

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.co...hs/%3famp=true
This must be what Rinella refers to from time to time.
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Old 07-15-2021, 01:22 PM   #12
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I'll pass on the revisionist history.
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Old 07-15-2021, 01:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel75 View Post
Sounds like the recent Time Magazine article I saw, basically refuting the heroics of the men who fought there, stating there was a large portion who ran rather than fight, that Crockett surrendered in the thick of the battle, and that the Texans were basically radicals who simply didnít want to pay their taxes in the new country they had moved into. Made my blood boil reading it. Trash

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.co...hs/%3famp=true

They say this, like it is a bad thing
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Old 07-15-2021, 01:29 PM   #14
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This is a book I would not consider reading. Something shared by Judge and Podcaster, Justice Ken Wise; Jerry Patterson read and reviewed the book:

Jerry Patterson
Forget "Forget the Alamo".
FORGET THE “FORGET THE ALAMO” BOOK:
IT’S OPINION, NOT HISTORY
Jerry Patterson
The authors of the recently released book, “Forget the Alamo” (Chris Tomlinson, Brian Burrough and Jason Stanford) need to sharpen their fact checking skills. They also need to be called out on their omission of facts that belie their premise that the Texas revolution was all about slavery.
While the book contains many factual errors, what the book didn’t mention is noteworthy:
1-To determine the causes of any revolution, a 7th grader would know the first place to look is the pertinent declaration of independence. The Texas Declaration of Independence lists 6 general and 14 specific causes for rebellion. Slavery wasn’t even mentioned. Apparently, slavery as a cause ranked no higher than # 21. The book contains no discussion of the Texas Declaration of Independence and when challenged, the authors non-sequitur response is that slavery is explicitly enabled in the 1836 Texas constitution. Huh? Reasons for rebellion are found in declarations of independence, not in constitutions.
2- Also conveniently ignored are the five or more NON-SLAVE HOLDING Mexican states (Zacatecas, Yucatan, Tabasco, Nuevo Leon, Tamaulipas) in rebellion at THE SAME TIME AND FOR THE SAME REASONS: Santa Annas’ abrogation of the Mexican Constitution of 1824, his removal of elected Governor’s, and his dissolution of state legislatures were considered the last straw by ALL Mexicans, not just Texans and Tejanos. In fact, the Constitution of 1824 was so important to Texans one of their battle flags was a Mexican tri-color with 1824 in the center white panel.
3-Ignored were the prominent members of the “Peace Party” who WERE slave owners. Stephen F. Austin (Empresario/”Father of Texas”), Thomas J. Chambers (Texas Chief Justice), David G Burnet (Interim President), and Josiah Bell (Alcalde/Austin confidant) OPPOSED war and independence. The majority of the peace faction adherents were slave owners and opposed the rebellion until late 1835. Author Andrew Torget, in his book on Texas slavery “Seeds of Empire” noted on page 174, “As late as the first months of 1836, many rebels in Texas, both Anglos and Tejanos, wanted nothing more that the restoration of the 1824 Constitution – it was not until the arrival of Santa Anna’s army on Texas soil that the revolt against centralism became widely embraced as a fight for independence”.
4-The vast majority of Texas combatants weren’t slave owners and weren’t inclined to die for members of the planter/slave owner class. In fact, one who fought at Gonzales and died at the Alamo was Amos Pollard, an educated Massachusetts physician and ardent abolitionist. Pollards pro abolition letters were published by leading abolitionist, William Lloyd Garrison, in his pamphlet “The Liberator”. Sixty of those who died at the Alamo were from European countries or Northern states where slavery was illegal and likely weren’t fighting for slavery. In “Empire for Slavery”, author Randolph B. Campbell wrote on page 48, “The institution (slavery) was not a primary issue…the immediate cause of conflict was the political instability and the implications of Santa Anna’s centralist regime…”.
Two more egregious (and exemplary of the authors bias) errors are: 1- their claim Lorenzo de Zavala was the subject of disdain and racism, and 2- that Texas soldiers raped Mexican army camp followers at San Jacinto. However, when you read their source citations, the exact opposite is revealed: de Zavala was described as being “held in high esteem” by Anglo Texans, and instead of raping, Texan soldiers protected camp followers.
There is one thing the authors and I agree on. Texas should embrace the whole story of our revolutionary history instead of the “Anglo good, Mexican bad” narrative Texans suffered through for a hundred plus years. This is not a new idea.
The DRT decades ago began seriously recognizing the contributions of Tejanos to our history. In every speech I gave on the Alamo I recited the names of the Tejanos who died at the Alamo or fought at San Jacinto. I also noted that the first illegals coming to Texas were Anglos crossing the Sabine River not Mexicans crossing the Rio Grande.
The purpose behind “Forget the Alamo” is to sell copies, not to add to the body of history. Nothing wrong with that. In the woke world of today, the timing is impeccable.
However, the facts found in this book aren’t impeccable. I hope Texans will recognize this isn’t a history book – it is an op-ed.
Remember the Alamo.
Jerry Patterson is a former Texas Senator, former Texas Land Commissioner, and a retired Marine Vietnam vet. He resides in Austin.
jerrypattersontexas@gmail.com
512-740-5650
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Old 07-15-2021, 01:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simek View Post
I know we have a lot of prolific readers, history buffs and seekers of the truth here on the green screen. A newly published book titled "Forget the Alamo" presents a new story of one of the most iconic historical engagements in Texas history. I plan on purchasing and reading it. I'm curious if there are others here that have considered the same.
Read north from Mexico & With Santa Anna in Texas: A Personal Narrative of the Revolution.1st , lots of the told story about the battle of the Alamo is Parable based off myths

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Old 07-15-2021, 01:36 PM   #16
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Nope. When the headline relates racism to the Alamo, then does not provide any additional support for the theory, I'm out.

It's just woke-ism.
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Old 07-15-2021, 01:43 PM   #17
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Appreciate everyone stating their views. Good stuff!
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Old 07-15-2021, 01:46 PM   #18
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People are being taught that they are nothing but victims of racism so racism is all they see in everything including history.

Mexico allowed anglos to settle Texas as a buffer against the Commanche. Many of those settlers brought slaves with them, but this had little to do with the causes of the rebellion against Santa Anna. In fact, slavery was gradually being abolished before Stephen F Austin received is first empresario grant so the Anglos who came to Texas came so knowing that slavery would soon be fully abolished. Slavery was fully abolished by 1830, five years before the rebellion.

The causes of the rebellion were Santa Anna's coup and the overthrow of the Mexican constitution of 1824 and the fighting was not limited to Coahuila y Tejas. Several other Mexican states erupted in rebellion: Yucatan, Nuevo Leon, Tamaulipas, Zacatecas, etc. Texas was but one theatre in a greater war.

There were many Tejano defenders of the Alamo who fought to defend the Constitution of 1824 and they played a critical role in Tejas winning their struggle for independence.

It is true that the Tejano's involvement in the Texas Revolution has been minimalized in the past. It is also true that the Anglo's attitudes towards the institution of slavery put them in direct political opposition to Mexico. However, to claim that the Texas Revolution was fought over slavery is nothing but a revisionist's poor attempt to re-write well a documented history.

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Old 07-15-2021, 01:47 PM   #19
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Driving a car forward by observing the road via the rear view mirrors. Just more divisiveness. Anyone with an IQ over 70 knows history is written with rose colored glasses. Time to concentrate on progressing society forward in a positive manner so I wont add this to my reading list, not that there is much room for additions. Judging the people of the far past by modern moral standards is either a form of **** brained cognitive processes or a calculated move to divide, either way I have no taste for it.

“Neither the brave nor bold will write us the stories told”.
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Old 07-15-2021, 01:48 PM   #20
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Hey, AGMTB07. thank you for the quick version. Like I said, I will not buy nor read this carp.
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Old 07-15-2021, 02:22 PM   #21
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To add to this, there was a good point I heard someone made pertaining to todays view on history. It seems there are more "historians" our there today who want to overwrite history, rather than to add & expand upon our history.
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Old 07-15-2021, 02:25 PM   #22
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That’ll be required reading in Texas History class before too long.
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Old 07-15-2021, 03:49 PM   #23
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I would be interested to see what they say. Obviously they are trying to stir the pot based on the title which is going to gain a lot of attention with a specific demographic of people. With that said I dont think it is a stretch to say that the version we were all told up to this point is more than likely embellished some so I will at least hear them out. I think it will become apparent pretty quick if it is the persons intent just to trash the Alamo or present some alternate information that is based on something.
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Old 07-15-2021, 04:32 PM   #24
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That's a hard pass for me as in HELL NO.

I'm currently as to why you want to read it though.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
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Old 07-15-2021, 04:43 PM   #25
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As a descendent of a defender of the Alamo, HELL NO!!
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Old 07-15-2021, 04:54 PM   #26
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Answer: Not anytime soon.

Please bump this thread back to the top when you done reading the book Simek and give us your honest thoughts.
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Old 07-15-2021, 04:56 PM   #27
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Do think all the Austin hippies have figured out yet that (Stephen F) Austin and William Travis (the county's namesake) were slave owners? I reckon a petition to change the names is coming soon.
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Old 07-15-2021, 05:30 PM   #28
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Let's just say that it takes very little courage to write "Forget the Alamo" in 2021. Deconstruct the Caucasian pioneers of the great state of Texas? Well, you will get standing ovations all over the Northeast and West Coast. The Texans are pretty polite, they won't agree but they also won't turn into an ANTIFA mob like in Portland, OR. I'm not very impressed by people that publish majority opinion as "fact." Every article I have read about this book or every excerpt I have read has mostly opinion in it, rather than previously unknown facts.
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Old 07-15-2021, 06:08 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabineHunter View Post
Hey, AGMTB07. thank you for the quick version. Like I said, I will not buy nor read this carp.
Me either, I don't even like carp personally.
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Old 07-15-2021, 06:22 PM   #30
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Nah, forget that bull**** book.
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Old 07-15-2021, 06:23 PM   #31
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Hell no. Good bonfire material
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Old 07-15-2021, 06:38 PM   #32
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I hear the tex rep from south Houston, Gene Wu, really likes it. You Houston guys that follow Wu might go on his recommendation. Lol

In the meantime, I'm on Killing Lincoln. Phenomenal so far
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Old 07-15-2021, 06:47 PM   #33
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All this history revisionism in the name of woke is a steaming pile of wrong.
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Old 07-15-2021, 06:52 PM   #34
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Woke slickers are the only people who will purchase that book and support the idiot who wrote it.
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Old 07-15-2021, 06:58 PM   #35
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Never.
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Old 07-15-2021, 06:59 PM   #36
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Any true son of Texas would gladly take a place on the wall of the Alamo if fate offered him the chance.I believe that makes folks who don't have our history a little jealous of us.
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Old 07-16-2021, 09:07 AM   #37
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Quote:
Read north from Mexico & With Santa Anna in Texas: A Personal Narrative of the Revolution.1st , lots of the told story about the battle of the Alamo is Parable based off myths
Will do. Thanks for the suggestion!

AGMTB07, thanks for posting that piece by Patterson....very interesting.

Quote:
I'm currently as to why you want to read it though.
The book was not on my radar until it popped up in my Twitter feed earlier this week. There was a big hubbub in Austin when a bookstore cancelled an event to promote the book. Dan Patrick is vocally against it. All the media coverage got me a bit curious. I recently read another alt-history version of the Alamo based on the De La Pena Letters, and it was a good read. I thought I'd give this a shot as well.

Quote:
Please bump this thread back to the top when you done reading the book Simek and give us your honest thoughts.
Will do!


Again, thanks for the civil conversation.
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Old 07-16-2021, 09:30 AM   #38
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I just saw this pop up in Twitter. Should be interesting.

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Old 07-16-2021, 09:45 AM   #39
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Carp is a dang good eating fish, so are saltwater cats.
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Old 07-16-2021, 09:54 AM   #40
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I'd be interested in reading it if it came from a remotely unbiased author. However, after having read Tomlinson's work in the Chron for years, I know he is anything but that unfortunately.
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Old 07-16-2021, 10:55 AM   #41
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Im rewriting a history book due out in the future, here are the first 247 pages

















What you think?
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Old 07-16-2021, 11:59 AM   #42
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It's always good to read other peoples stuff especially people who don't agree with you or don't see the world the way you do, respect for giving it go OP. Gives you a chance to see another prospective and/or solidify your beliefs against another opinion.
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Old 07-16-2021, 12:09 PM   #43
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Even bad news is good news when you’re selling a book. They will make money.
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Old 07-16-2021, 02:10 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wow View Post
Im rewriting a history book due out in the future, here are the first 247 pages

















What you think?
It’s about as knowledgeable as previously printed history books
It’s petty common knowledge that the Texas army was fighting for free land as payment, and not against anti slavery views in Mexico City

Last edited by S-3 Ranch; 07-16-2021 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 07-16-2021, 02:45 PM   #45
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Thatíll be required reading in Texas History class before too long.
That might be the only time, I'd be in favor of burning a book.
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Old 07-16-2021, 05:44 PM   #46
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That might be the only time, I'd be in favor of burning a book.
Iíll bring the pear burner.
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Old 07-16-2021, 05:58 PM   #47
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I will not buy nor read this fish nor will I circumvent. Whatever that means.
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Old 07-18-2021, 03:40 PM   #48
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Good info debunking this garbage of a book.

https://www.hccommunityjournal.com/a...3966cc084.html
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