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Old 12-17-2020, 08:11 AM   #201
ColinR
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Originally Posted by OSU Fisher View Post
Not my rifle. Ryan Avery built it. He's flinging 215 bergers around 2970 out of it with ease. It's a 30 nosler +p. The +p throating really helps to get the speeds.

Another guy I know of built a similar 20" 300 rum sending the 215 bergers at 3100.

Ive had the itch for a lighter weight, compact long range hunter. That 30 nosler I really dig. The 30-28 really interests me as well. That picture I posted is 8.5 lbs all set up with that nx8. I think something similar would be awesome!

What does that mean "+P"???

I assume its higher pressure but how to you achieve that? Open the throat/ neck up a little? If so I think that is what Robert did to my 6.5 SAUM just never heard it referred to as +P.

Last edited by ColinR; 12-17-2020 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 12-17-2020, 08:49 AM   #202
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Ill have one mocked up next week. It's a product we were eventually planning on offering for 2021. Maybe TBH will get first shot at it, and at a discount!

Perfect. If you do this one then Iím definitely in.


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Old 12-17-2020, 10:03 AM   #203
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What does that mean "+P"???

I assume its higher pressure but how to you achieve that? Open the throat/ neck up a little? If so I think that is what Robert did to my 6.5 SAUM just never heard it referred to as +P.
https://youtu.be/KUU7dxRYC90
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Old 12-17-2020, 10:05 AM   #204
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Any idea what dimension the +p throat is?


Sierracharlie out....
I posted a YouTube video on it. Not sure the dimensions. I haven't looked into it any farther then the beginning research and following others builds. I'm currently not running anything that I think would benefit from it. But maybe some day
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Old 12-17-2020, 10:28 AM   #205
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I posted a YouTube video on it. Not sure the dimensions. I haven't looked into it any farther then the beginning research and following others builds. I'm currently not running anything that I think would benefit from it. But maybe some day

Iím familiar with that set up. Been looking at his 260 terminator for a while as well. Thanks.


Sierracharlie out....
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Old 12-17-2020, 10:32 AM   #206
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What does that mean "+P"???

I assume its higher pressure but how to you achieve that? Open the throat/ neck up a little? If so I think that is what Robert did to my 6.5 SAUM just never heard it referred to as +P.
It isn't so much an opening of the throat as it is a more gradual entry/introduction into the lands. Generally leade angles are 1.5-3 degrees so I think they are reducing that angle and extending it out so it isn't just a freebore increase but it does reduce the pressure allowing them to get heavier bullets up to faster speeds. I believe the idea is similar to the 30/06 'Serengeti' chamber but I'm not 100% on that.

Shawn Carlock of Defensive Edge is the one who has really made his name doing the "+p" and he started with mainly larger bore diameters. According to his website he has seen an increase of up to 200fps in cartridges as small as the 260REM. The important part is your cartridge must have room left for usable case capacity to see a benefit.

His exact dimensions and method he doesn't give up his secret recipe but the idea behind it is not new.

https://defensiveedge.net/category/p/
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Old 12-17-2020, 10:43 AM   #207
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Iím familiar with that set up. Been looking at his 260 terminator for a while as well. Thanks.


Sierracharlie out....
I figured you were! He has some cool and tempting ideas. One of these days!
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Old 12-17-2020, 11:22 AM   #208
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I figured you were! He has some cool and tempting ideas. One of these days!

Yes he does. Iím gonna pick up his scope mounting kit as well, I like the looks of how he built it and functionality.


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Old 12-17-2020, 11:54 AM   #209
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Not my rifle. Ryan Avery built it. He's flinging 215 bergers around 2970 out of it with ease. It's a 30 nosler +p. The +p throating really helps to get the speeds.

Another guy I know of built a similar 20" 300 rum sending the 215 bergers at 3100.

Ive had the itch for a lighter weight, compact long range hunter. That 30 nosler I really dig. The 30-28 really interests me as well. That picture I posted is 8.5 lbs all set up with that nx8. I think something similar would be awesome!

Interesting. I like the rifleó wouldnít get a shoulder cannon caliber tho.
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Old 12-17-2020, 07:33 PM   #210
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Seems like a #2 with a CF barrel and AG APR stock / folding chassis is in the lead with the long range 22 following a bit behind. Letís start the build!!! Canít wait


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Old 12-17-2020, 07:36 PM   #211
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Seems like a #2 with a CF barrel and AG APR stock / folding chassis is in the lead with the long range 22 following a bit behind. Letís start the build!!! Canít wait


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Yepp seems like ANTi action and carbon fiber barrel are the common wants
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Old 12-17-2020, 07:44 PM   #212
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Seems like a #2 with a CF barrel and AG APR stock / folding chassis is in the lead with the long range 22 following a bit behind. Let’s start the build!!! Can’t wait


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I really really really NEED to sit this one out but dang if that is where this goes with the AG stock......I’m not sure I can restrain myself.

Last edited by ColinR; 12-17-2020 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 12-17-2020, 08:21 PM   #213
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#2 concept would be offered in 223, 300BO, 6CM, 6.5CM, 7-08 & 308 and maybe 6.5PRC. I'm working with a suppressor company right now to offer a turn-key package for this deal........should we decide to go this route.


#2 with a can would be an awesome package. Would also like to see a 257 Roberts offered.

But a MUST for me is a left hand option. Will this be available?
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Old 12-17-2020, 11:20 PM   #214
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Would the Anti action handle a big .30? Or is it limited to the listed calibers for option 2?
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Old 12-17-2020, 11:34 PM   #215
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Would the Anti action handle a big .30? Or is it limited to the listed calibers for option 2?

Yes they are building me a 30 Nosler on an AnTi right now!


Sierracharlie out....
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Old 12-17-2020, 11:36 PM   #216
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Yes they are building me a 30 Nosler on an AnTi right now!


Sierracharlie out....
In addition to precision, Is the main draw of that action weight savings?
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Old 12-17-2020, 11:40 PM   #217
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In addition to precision, Is the main draw of that action weight savings?


Yes sir itís only a couple ounces heavier than the titanium actions that are more expensive by at least a few hundred bucks.


Sierracharlie out....
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Old 12-18-2020, 07:16 PM   #218
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Any idea on when the decision will be made?
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Old 12-18-2020, 07:36 PM   #219
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Any idea on when the decision will be made?

Last year he posted the build on 1/7 so likely around then hopefully


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Old 12-18-2020, 10:11 PM   #220
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What does that mean "+P"???

I assume its higher pressure but how to you achieve that? Open the throat/ neck up a little? If so I think that is what Robert did to my 6.5 SAUM just never heard it referred to as +P.
Bore rider throat is a term youíve probably heard. Iím running a 7 mag with one. Had a 6.5-284 with one. It works. 3075 with 180 Bergerís in my 7.

Extends barrel life unless you run it harder which it allows you to do haha.
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Old 12-21-2020, 11:16 AM   #221
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i want #2 in 300 win with a can
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Old 12-21-2020, 11:42 AM   #222
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i like the idea of #2 but #3 would prob get a lot more use!
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Old 12-21-2020, 04:06 PM   #223
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I'm torn on 2 or 3. Any of them would be awesome but i have no use for a super long range rifle.
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Old 12-21-2020, 06:05 PM   #224
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#2 for me, Most likely in 308.
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Old 12-21-2020, 07:41 PM   #225
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Following

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Old 12-22-2020, 01:47 PM   #226
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Anxiously awaiting any more info.
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Old 12-22-2020, 10:52 PM   #227
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Following . Iíd like an 18Ē-20Ē 308
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Old 12-22-2020, 11:03 PM   #228
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Number 3 sounds good.
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Old 12-23-2020, 09:14 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by ColinR View Post
What does that mean "+P"???

I assume its higher pressure but how to you achieve that? Open the throat/ neck up a little? If so I think that is what Robert did to my 6.5 SAUM just never heard it referred to as +P.
The engaging lands are cut to a slightly larger diameter and then angled down to the barrel's predetermined lands. Watch those +P throats, though. They can be (not always) a little more finicky to reload for and, like Tropy8 said, they can eat a throat quicker. Also, you HAVE TO reload if you get a +P throat. If not, you'll lose velocity with factory ammo since the pressure is decreased. Also, they're pretty useless in shorter barrels and calibers that like shorter barrels (i.e., 308's derivatives and whatnot) because there isn't enough case capacity to add more powder. That being said, if you want a stouter cartridge with plenty of capacity in a longer barrel (26"+) then a +P, or bore rider, may be a really good fit.

Last edited by kck; 12-23-2020 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 12-23-2020, 02:36 PM   #230
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For what its worth......... I've replaced 3 barrels for customers recently that had the "+P" treatment mentioned on ELR rigs that were less than pleased with the results. I've never ran one personally, but looking through a scope at the take-offs I assure you I never will. A bore rider throat is a much more conservative approach that works, if you are willing to accept the shorter life that is the trade-off for having shorter lands in the leade portion of the throat. Keep in mind that most lands at full profile are only about .004" tall. Take away half of that and there's not much material left to stand up to the fire/heat erosion that is concentrated in that exact portion of the barrel.
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Old 12-24-2020, 08:37 AM   #231
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For what its worth......... I've replaced 3 barrels for customers recently that had the "+P" treatment mentioned on ELR rigs that were less than pleased with the results. I've never ran one personally, but looking through a scope at the take-offs I assure you I never will. A bore rider throat is a much more conservative approach that works, if you are willing to accept the shorter life that is the trade-off for having shorter lands in the leade portion of the throat. Keep in mind that most lands at full profile are only about .004" tall. Take away half of that and there's not much material left to stand up to the fire/heat erosion that is concentrated in that exact portion of the barrel.

Quality info thanks for sharing! Looks like Iíll stick with the 260AI


Sierracharlie out....
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Old 12-24-2020, 04:39 PM   #232
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For what its worth......... I've replaced 3 barrels for customers recently that had the "+P" treatment mentioned on ELR rigs that were less than pleased with the results. I've never ran one personally, but looking through a scope at the take-offs I assure you I never will. A bore rider throat is a much more conservative approach that works, if you are willing to accept the shorter life that is the trade-off for having shorter lands in the leade portion of the throat. Keep in mind that most lands at full profile are only about .004" tall. Take away half of that and there's not much material left to stand up to the fire/heat erosion that is concentrated in that exact portion of the barrel.
Robert, do you think the bore riders trump the +P due to the shallower lead angle? The bore riders are usually like 1 degree as opposed to the +P at like 3 degrees (I may be off on those numbers)? The only two reamers I have in a bore rider are a 7 mag and a 338 but I inherited those and havenít cut a chamber with them yet.
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Old 12-24-2020, 11:34 PM   #233
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Just saw this post. I’d be down for 2 or 3
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Old 12-25-2020, 10:29 AM   #234
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Number 2 here - and maybe a number 3 too
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Old 12-25-2020, 01:09 PM   #235
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I am intrigued by #2, especially if 7-08ai is a possibility. Interested to hear more details about this one.
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Old 12-25-2020, 01:18 PM   #236
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Any idea which lightweight chassis we are looking at in the case of a #2 build?
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Old 12-26-2020, 12:53 AM   #237
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I have been wanting to do something like #3 for a long time. If any way possibly do this or let me know of what kind of build is put there in high end 22.
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Old 12-26-2020, 01:08 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by Slick8 View Post
My idea is as stated above in a post but not in line with the 3 options.

Def An-Ti
Muller or Proof barrel
AG stock in apr hunter

You could throw the chasis stock as an option as well. I dont know too much about a light weight chasis but that part sounds interesting.

What's the maximum internal mag length on the chassis?
Will a chassis accommodate WSM sized rounds?
Is the chassis DBM only?


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This one may have legs. We have a carbon fiber version of the APR contour that will will work in that stock now!

This sounds like a nice build.
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Old 12-26-2020, 04:38 PM   #239
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Following along. Wanting a new rifle in 6.5prc

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Old 12-28-2020, 09:02 AM   #240
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Ill have one mocked up next week. It's a product we were eventually planning on offering for 2021. Maybe TBH will get first shot at it, and at a discount!
Still planning mocking up one to show us?
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Old 12-28-2020, 09:09 AM   #241
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I like the sound if option number 2! In for details

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Old 12-28-2020, 09:50 AM   #242
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The engaging lands are cut to a slightly larger diameter and then angled down to the barrel's predetermined lands. Watch those +P throats, though. They can be (not always) a little more finicky to reload for and, like Tropy8 said, they can eat a throat quicker. Also, you HAVE TO reload if you get a +P throat. If not, you'll lose velocity with factory ammo since the pressure is decreased. Also, they're pretty useless in shorter barrels and calibers that like shorter barrels (i.e., 308's derivatives and whatnot) because there isn't enough case capacity to add more powder. That being said, if you want a stouter cartridge with plenty of capacity in a longer barrel (26"+) then a +P, or bore rider, may be a really good fit.
They for sure are finicky to load for. Bergers seem to be the ticket.
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Old 12-28-2020, 03:33 PM   #243
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What I would be interested in is a cost effective lightweight elk gun. If that is even a thing.
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Old 12-28-2020, 03:48 PM   #244
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What I would be interested in is a cost effective lightweight elk gun. If that is even a thing.

Sure it is. Just depends on how many corners you want to cut from a custom build. Lots of rifles built on R700 or Tikka donor actions.


Sierracharlie out....
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Old 12-28-2020, 03:55 PM   #245
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What I would be interested in is a cost effective lightweight elk gun. If that is even a thing.
And depends on your definition of cost effective and lightweight......

Oh and your definition of a elk caliber....
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Old 12-28-2020, 05:43 PM   #246
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#3 would get my wife out to the range a lot more and thatís good for me


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Old 12-28-2020, 06:03 PM   #247
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So when can we order #3 ?
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Old 12-28-2020, 06:23 PM   #248
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So when can we order #3 ?
Thereís a #3 for sale on Alamoís website right now if youíd like!
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Old 12-28-2020, 06:28 PM   #249
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But we need some left handed #3s
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Old 12-28-2020, 06:55 PM   #250
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Pleased to see all of the interest in the 22 option! Don't think we will be able to do lefties on that platform though, unfortunately.

Somewhere out there, is an APR contour carbon barrel trying to find its way home through the UPS system. If it ever actually gets here, I'll mock up a light weight Maverick platform like I mentioned earlier. I think it will check a lot of boxes for folks.

I've looked at several chassis options for concept #2. The folder takes us down to just a few really good options, and all are going to have significantly long timelines based on the conversations I've had to date. A fixed version would open up the possibilities, but it loses some of the utility I had envisioned. My first choice right now is the XLR Element 4.0.........which isn't out yet.

I'll keep y'all posted as things develop.
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