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Old 07-06-2021, 11:37 AM   #1
enewman
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Default Ranch fairy long distance break down

I broke down their data into a table. Then looked at the differences.
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Old 07-06-2021, 11:44 AM   #2
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English please....
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Old 07-06-2021, 12:03 PM   #3
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I didn't need to break down anything. It was very easy to see that they were looking at one point and trying to emphasize that with no consideration how all the other things should be factored in.
Momentum is now the more recognized factor in penetration not KE. Although I really don't care what you call it, I just want it the best I can get it without sacrificing too much trajectory.
To me his demonstration didn't provide anything that would change my mind about how I build arrows. 9.5 to 10.5 grains per pound and 15% t 19% FOC.
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Old 07-06-2021, 12:14 PM   #4
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I didn't need to break down anything. It was very easy to see that they were looking at one point and trying to emphasize that with no consideration how all the other things should be factored in.
Momentum is now the more recognized factor in penetration not KE. Although I really don't care what you call it, I just want it the best I can get it without sacrificing too much trajectory.
To me his demonstration didn't provide anything that would change my mind about how I build arrows. 9.5 to 10.5 grains per pound and 15% t 19% FOC.
so, do you think the video was one-sided?

Thanks

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Old 07-06-2021, 12:18 PM   #5
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English please....
I broke it down and showed the % differences. I did this because although Heavy will out penetrate when all factors are equal. The 472gr vs the 700gr plus arrows show a 7% and a 9% difference. Is that enough difference to allow for the trajectory and miss judging distance to go from a 472 gr to 700gr plus.

These are the things they left out in the video.
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Old 07-06-2021, 04:23 PM   #6
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so, do you think the video was one-sided?

Thanks
I don't think they were cheating or skirting the truth. I think they were looking for a result. I think they were looking at a specific thing and found the results to be not dramatic yet showing what they expected. However, and I was doing something while watching/ listening so maybe I missed something, I think that to the person unfamiliar, inexperienced or easily influenced the information was left open to a lot of interpretation for real hunting archery application. I'm more of a balance person when it comes to speed and arrow weight.

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Old 07-06-2021, 05:26 PM   #7
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I don't think they were cheating or skirting the truth. I think they were looking for a result. I think they were looking at a specific thing and found the results to be not dramatic yet showing what they expected. However, and I was doing something while watching/ listening so maybe I missed something, I think that to the person unfamiliar, inexperienced or easily influenced the information was left open to a lot of interpretation for real hunting archery application. I'm more of a balance person when it comes to speed and arrow weight.

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That is why I put percentages differences on the tables. the difference isn't enough to warrant that much weight.

either way, I like looking at numbers.
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Old 07-06-2021, 05:33 PM   #8
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I thought the trajectory difference in the arrows was the most stand out of all of it.

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Old 07-06-2021, 06:25 PM   #9
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I can’t watch it if it’s got RF in it… I can’t…… nope. Won’t do it

I’ve do my own testing with multiple weights at the maximum distance I’d take a shot…. The results were clear. In the situation I hunt in normally at 28” 62# 420gr was all I could sacrifice. I love the arrow and it performs flawlessly

I see people with the zombie apocalypse arrows with a 22… 24… 27 and 30 pin….. &$&% that. It won’t work how I hunt. I can’t prune lanes everywhere and cut this limb and that bush. I seen half a dozen seasoned shooters on here this year MISS elk under 40 yards!!! Shooting these “plan B” train wrecks waiting to happen when a 450 gr would have got the job done… it has thousands of times before. If your gonna slam dunk animal’s at 17 yards at a feeder EVERYTIME, go nuts with the weight

I’m sure the video shows something of interest… but I’d rather watch a low budget midget **** and see my wife in the background than watch another RF video. Lol


Shoot all the weight you can that allows for a trajectory you can live with and go kill stuff…. That part is really really really simple. Everything leading up to that is the hard work

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Old 07-06-2021, 08:13 PM   #10
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All it takes it just to nick a major organ…
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Old 07-06-2021, 10:25 PM   #11
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I watched the RF video. It was not bad....he did not have a giggle fit or anything. It looked to me like the heavy is the way to go. ;-)

I shoot heavy and my pin assignment is 30,40,50,60,70. I can easily shoot good to 80. it is no drama. my pins are not a mile apart....not sure what all the drama is about.

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Old 07-15-2021, 06:30 PM   #12
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Did I miss a video???


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Old 07-15-2021, 06:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Low Fence View Post

Iím sure the video shows something of interestÖ but Iíd rather watch a low budget midget **** and see my wife in the background than watch another RF video. Lol

Lmao!
I usually donít laugh out loud when reading **** online, but this line may of made me snort. My wife said ďwhat the hell is so funnyĒ.
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Old 07-16-2021, 09:35 AM   #14
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Did I miss a video???


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Yeah, I don't see the vid either.

The table is a good visual
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:00 PM   #15
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I know he posted on here for a brief period but idk how any self respecting man calls himself a fairy lol. Too much for me
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Old 07-19-2021, 02:17 PM   #16
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My good friend went full-on into fairy land with his arrow setup. Even after watching the fairy videos, I still don't see how pushing the science that far will make you effective outside of hunting over a feeder or 30yds and under.
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Old 07-20-2021, 06:58 AM   #17
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I know he posted on here for a brief period but idk how any self respecting man calls himself a fairy lol. Too much for me
He had one agenda. To pimp his channel without a sponsorship. He ainít got time to chat here. Heís got 65 pound hogs to blow through with mega zombie arrows. Lol
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Old 07-20-2021, 08:13 PM   #18
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I watched the vid on THP, it was a pretty neat side by side comparison. They were borderline dry firing those high poundage bows.
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Old 07-20-2021, 11:04 PM   #19
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Old 07-20-2021, 11:56 PM   #20
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awesome. I am at 615gr. My pins are 30-70. My bow is ChillX 29.5 DL turned all the way up. I have a big target and have flags from 20-80 yards in the ground. I sight in my pins. I practice. I randomly walk between pins.... say somewhere between 50-60....estimate where I am and shoot. it is not hard. I hunt out west and take long shots. I ALWAYS range a bush a rock or a tree. It is not hard to judge at this point when an animal walks between the what I have measured. plenty of animals die this way. I also have shot to measure error...say 40 yard pin on a 50 yard target. its not that bad. What is the point of seeing what a 30 yard pin does at 60 yards?? I remember when 225 was a blistering fast bow. Practice more if you want to go heavier. to each his own.
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Old 07-20-2021, 11:59 PM   #21
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awesome. I am at 615gr. My pins are 30-70. My bow is ChillX 29.5 DL turned all the way up. I have a big target and have flags from 20-80 yards in the ground. I sight in my pins. I practice. I randomly walk between pins.... say somewhere between 50-60....estimate where I am and shoot. it is not hard. I hunt out west and take long shots. I ALWAYS range a bush a rock or a tree. It is not hard to judge at this point when an animal walks between the what I have measured. plenty of animals die this way. I also have shot to measure error...say 40 yard pin on a 50 yard target. its not that bad. What is the point of seeing what a 30 yard pin does at 60 yards?? I remember when 225 was a blistering fast bow. Practice more if you want to go heavier. to each his own.


Attachment 1056262

The point is when your off 1 yard at 50 itís the difference between killing the animal and missing.

Itís hard to judge within a yard all the time. Zero reason to shoot 600 grains when a 425-500 grain arrow will blow through any animal we have in North America. You canít pass through something you miss


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Old 07-21-2021, 12:03 AM   #22
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[QUOTE=JTeLarkin08;15711060]The point is when your off 1 yard at 50 it’s the difference between killing the animal and missing.

It’s hard to judge within a yard all the time. Zero reason to shoot 600 grains when a 425-500 grain arrow will blow through any animal we have in North America. You can’t pass through something you miss


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with my setup I do not believe 1 yard is a miss......I have to get ready for Utah NOW and will update with a shot or two. I think 5 yards may be 5" at that distance...dont quote me on that but I will post this week. My range is at work so will test.

I am heavy because heavy works best in the wind. My setup is as a thin arrow and my fletching is as low of a profile as I can get. lighter arrows whip around in the wind. Heavy FOC is like chunking a spear. I have 0į helical on my fletching and can shoot well without fletching at all....I dont, of course but none the less high FOC works. Empirical data is what I go by.

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Old 07-23-2021, 07:10 PM   #23
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Tom, I would be surprised if at 50yds, its just 5" per yard of trajectory. That is still a lot. On a elk it may not be a big difference, but a Muley or Whitetail...that's a miss or a very low hit. Im interested on what you post.
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Old 07-23-2021, 09:43 PM   #24
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Tom, I would be surprised if at 50yds, its just 5" per yard of trajectory. That is still a lot. On a elk it may not be a big difference, but a Muley or Whitetail...that's a miss or a very low hit. Im interested on what you post.
I will post. I honestly cannot recall. I did not hunt or shoot since 2019 (Covid BS) but it really is not a issue that has stood out to me. Even when I was light I was at 460gr. I have my setup dialed in for the wind. I am not all worked up about a formula or what will do the job on any animal on the continent or anything like that. Heavy, High FOC, thin arrow and low profile vanes with minimal helical will fly the best in the wind. I don't have a lot wind here in the pines and when I get to where I hunt every year in NE Utah there is an abundance. Plain and simple this setup works. You can shoot your "what will do the job around here" and if you shoot it in high wind it will whip around. High FOC is key....just my experience. I do what works for me. I have a pile of Elk. None of them got away from the arrow even out to 64 yards. The Elk never asked me if I was dialed in for KE or Momentum.
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Old 07-23-2021, 09:53 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by lovemylegacy View Post
Tom, I would be surprised if at 50yds, its just 5" per yard of trajectory. That is still a lot. On a elk it may not be a big difference, but a Muley or Whitetail...that's a miss or a very low hit. Im interested on what you post.
actually I think it is 5" for 5 yards....but we will see soon. I could be way off. It could be 8"

Last edited by Tom; 07-23-2021 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 07-23-2021, 10:39 PM   #26
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there is a lot of misinformation and feel good about any set up that anyone uses.

if you look at a standard archery calculator.....keeping in mind that this is a guideline and does not cover all variables.

a bow that shoots 300 FPS with a 425gr arrow will drop 20" between 40-50 yards

a bow that shoots 260 FPS with a 600gr arrow will drop 25" between 40-50 yards.

300 FPS is no magical number. so the difference at a 5 yard error plus or minus is in the 2.5" range difference in error.

learn to judge distance and do what works for you.
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Old 07-23-2021, 11:38 PM   #27
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Old 07-24-2021, 01:41 AM   #28
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Looks about right. from his current hunting setup to a very heavy setup at this range has an error difference of 2.9".

Hunt with what you want to hunt with and I will as well. I have never tried to convince anyone to use my setup and honestly I am not concerned with what someone else is using. I only hunt out West, Africa or Alaska with a bow and what works best for me....what I have actually played around with is my current setup. My sitting in a popup days are over at the moment and I have my setup dialed in.

shoot 40 yards in a strong crosswind and play around with TAW, FOC vane profile and shaft diameter until you see what works best. happy hunting
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Old 07-24-2021, 06:56 AM   #29
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Quote:
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I will post. I honestly cannot recall. I did not hunt or shoot since 2019 (Covid BS) but it really is not a issue that has stood out to me. Even when I was light I was at 460gr. I have my setup dialed in for the wind. I am not all worked up about a formula or what will do the job on any animal on the continent or anything like that. Heavy, High FOC, thin arrow and low profile vanes with minimal helical will fly the best in the wind. I don't have a lot wind here in the pines and when I get to where I hunt every year in NE Utah there is an abundance. Plain and simple this setup works. You can shoot your "what will do the job around here" and if you shoot it in high wind it will whip around. High FOC is key....just my experience. I do what works for me. I have a pile of Elk. None of them got away from the arrow even out to 64 yards. The Elk never asked me if I was dialed in for KE or Momentum.
Excellent info. I have been kicking around changing arrows since I went down in poundage. Probably gonna stay where Im at.
Yeah, deer don't care about KE or Momentum either.
I guess you go next month for Elk?
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Old 07-26-2021, 03:19 PM   #30
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interesting
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Old 07-27-2021, 04:44 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTeLarkin08 View Post
The point is when your off 1 yard at 50 itís the difference between killing the animal and missing.

Itís hard to judge within a yard all the time. Zero reason to shoot 600 grains when a 425-500 grain arrow will blow through any animal we have in North America. You canít pass through something you miss


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This ^^^^^^^
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Old 07-27-2021, 04:45 PM   #32
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Joel and I communicate a lot about all the testing being done. Joel does good work.
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Old 07-27-2021, 07:43 PM   #33
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Joel and I communicate a lot about all the testing being done. Joel does good work.
apply some physics. Start with the application of gravity. 1 yard error at 50 does not make a miss on a good shot. If you agree with this your calculator is broke.
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Old 07-27-2021, 10:20 PM   #34
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apply some physics. Start with the application of gravity. 1 yard error at 50 does not make a miss on a good shot. If you agree with this your calculator is broke.
that did not come out as intended. If you review the drop of an arrow...say 450 grains and the drop of arrow at 600 and compare the drop differential between 40-50 yards with the light arrow at 300fps and the heavier arrow at 260fps you will see that the difference in the 33ish% increase in TAW does no create a miss on a good shot. In reality the difference is probably less than what most people can repeat with a shot at this distance. I am not talking about the drop....I am talking about the differential in one to the other.

you really only need to plug the speed in to get the drop differential. if you look at sighted in at 300fps at 45 yards and shooting with that pin at 46 or 47 yards, etc and do the same with 240,250 or 260fps it is not like you will miss the target. The differential is small. the miss from one to the other by misjudging distance is small.

Last edited by Tom; 07-27-2021 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 08-03-2021, 09:04 PM   #35
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check out video at 2:20. awesome comparison

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Old 08-03-2021, 10:15 PM   #36
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that's a 450gr to 848gr at 70 yards.
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Old 08-03-2021, 10:47 PM   #37
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I see guys shooting high FOC in the wind and their arrows tail over just as bad as anyone else's. Wind is gonna drift any projectile.

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Old 08-03-2021, 10:54 PM   #38
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I see guys shooting high FOC in the wind and their arrows tail over just as bad as anyone else's. Wind is gonna drift any projectile.

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I agree they do whip as well but the pointy end does not drift as much in the tests that I did. I shot at a hay bale at 40 yards with 460gr and 615gr and it was a noticeable difference in off target in high wind. I was behind a bale to block the wind from my bow and I. do what works best for you.
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Old 08-04-2021, 09:13 AM   #39
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that's a 450gr to 848gr at 70 yards.
I need to learn to shoot two arrows at the same time and still hit the target.
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Old 08-04-2021, 09:21 AM   #40
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apply some physics. Start with the application of gravity. 1 yard error at 50 does not make a miss on a good shot. If you agree with this your calculator is broke.
show me where my calculator is broke.
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Old 08-04-2021, 04:34 PM   #41
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I am in the 425-500 grain arrow camp. For starters some rangefinders out there aren't always 100% consistent. Go shoot a 3D shoot and get everyone to range the Tapir on the white, then the black. It usually will be a 1 yard difference, but that could add up if you are hunting out West with shots past 50 yards. Especially with a 650 grain arrow.

I have been around a lot of bow kills through the years. I can probably count on one hand at most when arrow penetration was the problem... It was shot placement and/or the animal moving. I would bet most of those arrows shot weighed in at 425 grains at most to.

I agree that a heavier arrow is better. No question... under the perfect circumstances.

If I had two guys show up to hunt with the basically the same setups. One that had an arrow weighing in at 425 grains and the other 650 grains. We would definitely want the 650 grain guy to have his shot at 20 yards or less on say a deer, because it will be moving.
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Old 08-04-2021, 09:46 PM   #42
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show me where my calculator is broke.
if you believe the statement that a 600gr arrow will cause a miss by misjudging a yard at 50 and a 425-500gr arrow will not you did not use your calculator. The differential of error is probably smaller than what you assume and I can only assume that you did not test this or break out your calculator.
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Old 08-04-2021, 10:12 PM   #43
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Tailor your arrows to your query and style. It’s that simple.
Launching arrows is fun. So is physics.
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Old 08-05-2021, 01:49 PM   #44
enewman
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Odessa TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom View Post
if you believe the statement that a 600gr arrow will cause a miss by misjudging a yard at 50 and a 425-500gr arrow will not you did not use your calculator. The differential of error is probably smaller than what you assume and I can only assume that you did not test this or break out your calculator.
I didn't show a calculator
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Old 08-05-2021, 06:48 PM   #45
Pushbutton2
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Van,TX
Hunt In: Mc Culloch County (2015-2021) Van Zandt County since 2017
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[quote=Tom;15711062]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTeLarkin08 View Post
The point is when your off 1 yard at 50 itís the difference between killing the animal and missing.

Itís hard to judge within a yard all the time. Zero reason to shoot 600 grains when a 425-500 grain arrow will blow through any animal we have in North America. You canít pass through something you miss


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE

with my setup I do not believe 1 yard is a miss......I have to get ready for Utah NOW and will update with a shot or two. I think 5 yards may be 5" at that distance...dont quote me on that but I will post this week. My range is at work so will test.

I am heavy because heavy works best in the wind. My setup is as a thin arrow and my fletching is as low of a profile as I can get. lighter arrows whip around in the wind. Heavy FOC is like chunking a spear. I have 0į helical on my fletching and can shoot well without fletching at all....I dont, of course but none the less high FOC works. Empirical data is what I go by.
Why 0⁰ on the helical? You using a Whisker Biscuit?

My current arrows are 30", 520 or 580 grain. I forget the FOC. I'm thinking 17 or 19.
I run helical fletch on mine.


When we go to God by prayer, the devil knows we go to fetch strength against him, and therefore he opposeth us all he can.

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Old 09-03-2021, 07:33 PM   #46
prodigyoutdoors
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Join Date: Aug 2021
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I agree you cross paths with speed and penetration and call it a day.
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