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Old 01-17-2023, 07:59 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
Well suppressors, SBS, et Al have been settled law for a long time so it just goes with the territory.

This is a complete 180 from what has been a legal, unregistered firearm that now all of a sudden they want you to either modify, register, destroy or forfeit.

They are sweetening the pot to get as many of them registered as possible since they canít ďlegallyĒ have a general gun registry (nod, nod, wink, wink).

All IMO of course.


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Maybe I misunderstood since I donít have one but were pistol braces ruled lawful lawful by the ATF and so millions of people bought ďlegalĒ braces for their handguns

Quoting your comment:
This is a complete 180 from what has been a legal.

Is that constitutional?

Under the Constitution AI, S9, C3Ö.. can they retroactively make a person a felon?

I understand if they say, from this day forwardÖ..
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Old 01-17-2023, 08:06 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by tvc184 View Post
Maybe I misunderstood since I donít have one but were pistol braces ruled lawful lawful by the ATF and so millions of people bought ďlegalĒ braces for their handguns

Quoting your comment:
This is a complete 180 from what has been a legal.

Is that constitutional?

Under the Constitution AI, S9, C3Ö.. can they retroactively make a person a felon?

I understand if they say, from this day forwardÖ..
Yes sir and some of them even came with a certificate(statement) from the ATF stating they were legal.
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Old 01-17-2023, 08:27 PM   #153
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Yes sir and some of them even came with a certificate(statement) from the ATF stating they were legal.
Thank you.

I know that is obviously an emotional (and correct) 2A argument but getting away from that, especially with a document from ATF, how do they now change a law to make a legal act illegal retroactive, considering Article I, Section 9?

Maybe a lawyer will be using a different tactic to get an injunction to stop this from being enforced while it is being decided.
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Old 01-17-2023, 08:37 PM   #154
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Thank you.

I know that is obviously an emotional (and correct) 2A argument but getting away from that, especially with a document from ATF, how do they now change a law to make a legal act illegal retroactive, considering Article I, Section 9?

Maybe a lawyer will be using a different tactic to get an injunction to stop this from being enforced while it is being decided.
I imagine GAO is on this now. Hope so anyway. If the last few 2nd A suits that went to the Supreme Court are any indication, it will die if it gets there.
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Old 01-17-2023, 08:38 PM   #155
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Exactly, using the whole loophole angle is not addressing the actual issues we are having.

Bump Stock mfg submits it's new gadget to DOJ for approval...DOJ approves & millions sold. Bump Stock used in vegas & overnight the same piece of plastic is considered a full auto firearm & banned. Overturned due to captain obvious.

Same with braces...doj approves, MILLIONS sold & then one is used in a crime & not only is the plastic brace now a SBR, the freak'n buffer tube is added to the list.

Mind boggling some cannot see the camel's head working it's way into the tent.
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Old 01-17-2023, 09:00 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by tvc184 View Post
The Constitution says that a law cannot be enacted that makes a crime of something that happened previously. Basically it is unconstitutional to make a retroactive law. They can make a law that says addresses a crime AFTER the law was enacted.

So if ATF made a ruling (if Congress gave them that authority) that a brace was legal and people purchased them by the millions, what authority do they have to make something illegal retroactively?

From the Constitution:

Article I Legislative Branch
Section 9 Powers Denied Congress
Clause 3 Nullification
No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.


If Congress canít constitutionally pass a retroactive law, can the ATF (or anyone else) change a law to make a personal a criminal if he was not a criminal when the act was committed?

Bill of Attainder: Enacted legislation that declares a person a criminal.

Ex Post Facto: An ex post facto law is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences (or status) of actions that were committed, or relationships that existed, before the enactment of the law. In criminal law, it may criminalize actions that were legal when committed.

So does it seem like it should be unconstitutional to make a person a criminal when the act that he committed was not a crime at the time?
10-4. Makes sense. I donít see it being upheld.
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Old 01-17-2023, 10:23 PM   #157
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If you wanted an SBR then why didnít you buy an SBR to begin with?

I donít believe in loopholes. Itís either law or it isnít. SBRs have been law since the 1930 and pistols have been pistols; until now.


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My guess is because people don't want to pay $200 and be on a "list". I'm all over the list, so doesn't bother me and I have a few SBRs.

they gave us an inch when saying braces were legal and we took a mile by making them function and look exactly like an SBR. remember when you weren't supposed to shoulder them or they would come kill your dog? now everyone shoulders them so the eye relief on their rifle scope is correct. I see this as them reeling us back in, not really anything more than that.

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Old 01-17-2023, 10:56 PM   #158
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My guess is because people don't want to pay $200 and be on a "list". I'm all over the list, so doesn't bother me and I have a few SBRs.

they gave us an inch when saying braces were legal and we took a mile by making them function and look exactly like an SBR. remember when you weren't supposed to shoulder them or they would come kill your dog? now everyone shoulders them so the eye relief on their rifle scope is correct. I see this as them reeling us back in, not really anything more than that.

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You should go work for the ATF or maybe you do, it would be a great fit. You are missing the whole point of what this means, if this is enforced then where does it end. Now go pay your taxes like a good citizen.
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Old 01-17-2023, 11:13 PM   #159
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Huge pandoras box...from another site:


And then they weaponize the Sporter Clause in GCA68 which allows them to proibit anything they like as "not suitable for sport." Pretty much you'd be lucky to be left with revolvers, lever actions and break-opens in that scenario... NFA is a nuisance but it's not the biggest elephant in the room
They can & will keep literally 'reeling us in' if we allow them to enforce unconstitutional actions...if the doj thinks they screwed up on hindsight by approving bump stocks or braces, then use the legislative branch to correct. They do not have the ability to create new law enforcing imprisonment of what was considered legal yesterday. What part of the constitution is confusing here??

It's appalling some seem to be condoning the actions because they see some sorta common sense vs the tyranny the govt created by their own actions (hell, maybe it was all on purpose)...I swear, we gun owners are our own worst enemy even in the middle of the fight.

#buffertubelivesmatter

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Old 01-18-2023, 05:50 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by duckmanep View Post
My guess is because people don't want to pay $200 and be on a "list". I'm all over the list, so doesn't bother me and I have a few SBRs.

they gave us an inch when saying braces were legal and we took a mile by making them function and look exactly like an SBR. remember when you weren't supposed to shoulder them or they would come kill your dog? now everyone shoulders them so the eye relief on their rifle scope is correct. I see this as them reeling us back in, not really anything more than that.

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While I do agree that people having their 15 minutes on social media brought plenty of attention to this, they had previously ruled (twice if I recall correctly) that shouldering was fine.

This is purely a politically motivated stunt. I donít think it will hold up in court but itís gonna take a while.


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Old 01-18-2023, 07:14 AM   #161
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So a gun shop near me sent this email...........I used them once for a transfer and ended up on their email list. Trying to decide how to respond to the email
ATF Pistol Brace Ban is Official!
Find out how it affects you and what you can do.



It’s finally here. The ATF Ruling is now final. I’m sure you’ve already received notices from many pro-2A websites you subscribe to including our friends at Silencer Shop. But there’s a few MAJOR things they’ve left out (maybe because they don’t know yet). And that’s why you shop with us! We have the details…and you’re not going to like them. But we’re here to help.

In short, and as you’ve likely read by now, the ruling goes to great lengths to effectively ban most AR Pistol configurations. There are ways to comply, but they are clear that a violation, as judged solely by them, will be considered a felony worth a $250,000 fine and 10 years in prison.

The solution? Use our e-form 1 service to SBR your AR Pistol and don’t worry about it! Now here’s the rub:



Per every article you’ve received, you’ve seen they are offering a 120-day grace period to convert your pistol to an SBR. They’re even willing to waive the $200 tax stamp! Right? That’s what everyone is saying.



WRONG! (Mostly)



To get the waiver, here are the requirements (that you don’t discover until you start the form 1 process):



The AR Pistol must have been a pistol by Jan 13, 2023.

You, the applicant must have owned it before then (so much for these clearance sale pistol lowers).

(This is the real sneaky one) If you want to register it in a trust, you must be able to prove (by way of notary) that you already put the pistol in the trust prior to Jan 13, 2023!

If you owned it before Jan 13, 2023, expect that you’ll be registering it as an individual and putting your actual name engraved on the receiver if you want the $200 tax stamp waived.



“But I want it in my trust!!”



You can still register your AR Pistol in the trust. You just don’t get the waiver on the fee. You’ll pay $200 just like you ever would to register an SBR.

That said, our e-form 1s have been moving at lightning speed taking just 10-12 days for approval. Realize there will be a FLOOD of applications to SBR the AR Pistols so, like the “90-day eform 4s” that take 8 months, realize your eform 1 could take significantly longer. At least you get to hold on to your AR Pistol while you wait. Maybe. They haven’t been clear on the 120-day grace period if that means that as long as you have it in process then it’s not illegal to possess it while waiting.

Contact us today to get in the queue to start your eform-1. The process can take an hour or more in-house plus the engraving after the approval.



To start the process, email us your request for e-form 1 information at sales@.net. We will send you our starter kit. Keep in mind, we can get you the $200 waiver, but it will almost certainly require you registering as an individual. You can always transfer it to your trust later…for $200. Thanks ATF.

Will this be overturned eventually? Maybe. The bumpstocks only took 4 years. In the meantime, hide your dog under you bed. At least if you register it as an SBR you can take off that silly brace and put a real stock on it.

You heard it here first.



See you soon.

Last edited by Quackerbox; 01-18-2023 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 01-18-2023, 07:34 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by EastTexasTiger View Post
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justi...s-used-convert

heads up gentlemen. so much for "shall not be infringed"
The Last Sentence? "Nothing in this rule bans stabilizing braces or the use of stabilizing braces on pistols".
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Old 01-18-2023, 07:36 AM   #163
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And as far as "individuals to register tax-free any existing NFA short-barreled rifle". Sorry Registration Leads to Confiscation.....
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Old 01-18-2023, 07:45 AM   #164
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ATF Pistol Brace Rule
Palmetto State Armory Statement
On January 13, 2023, ATF announced its new final rule on stabilizing braces (Rule 2021R-08F, “Factoring Criteria for Firearms with Attached Stabilizing Braces,” found at https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regula...ilizing-braces), which appears to subject many of today’s firearms with attached stabilizing braces and the millions of individuals that own them to the provisions and requirements of the National Firearms Act (NFA).

Palmetto State Armory opposes this rule that, in many respects, is a complete reversal of years of prior guidance from ATF and represents another example of government overreach and the arbitrary infringement of Americans’ constitutional rights. We will work with our fellow manufacturers and industry partners to challenge this unjust rule, and we look forward to this unconstitutional action being struck down by the courts.

Given the present uncertainty caused by this rule, however, and at the advice of our legal counsel, we are taking action to comply with the rule as we currently understand it and, upon publication of the rule in the Federal Register, will no longer sell or ship pistols with stabilizing braces. Rest assured, we will continue to do everything in our power to legally promote the rights of law-abiding gun owners and maximize individual freedom while this matter makes its way through the judicial system.
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Old 01-18-2023, 09:32 AM   #165
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I wonder how many will do nothing and just wait....

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Old 01-18-2023, 09:58 AM   #166
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So hypothetically...since the $200 fee is waived right now...could I get tax stamps for say 3 or 4 lowers and build SBR's from all of them on the ATF's dime? Or is it just for a current pistol configuration gun you already own?
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Old 01-18-2023, 11:52 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by CRM_95 View Post
So hypothetically...since the $200 fee is waived right now...could I get tax stamps for say 3 or 4 lowers and build SBR's from all of them on the ATF's dime? Or is it just for a current pistol configuration gun you already own?

A few things on this. To be eligible for the free stamp you have to prove ownership of the firearm prior to January 13th. You also have to show that it is in a restricted configuration. IF you do that then the stamps can be filed to you as an individual only and not into a trust. Iíd you so desire to have those items on a trust you will have to pay a regular stamp or later form 4 them to yourself and again pay the $200 stamp per.


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Old 01-18-2023, 11:56 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by QuackHunter View Post
A few things on this. To be eligible for the free stamp you have to prove ownership of the firearm prior to January 13th. You also have to show that it is in a restricted configuration. IF you do that then the stamps can be filed to you as an individual only and not into a trust. Iíd you so desire to have those items on a trust you will have to pay a regular stamp or later form 4 them to yourself and again pay the $200 stamp per.


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Where are you seeing that you canít file as a trust? Not sure how they expect you to prove ownership either.


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Old 01-18-2023, 12:14 PM   #169
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Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fla., introduced a bill to eliminate the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) following a controversial ruling that tightens regulations on pistol stabilizing braces.
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Old 01-18-2023, 12:29 PM   #170
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Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fla., introduced a bill to eliminate the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) following a controversial ruling that tightens regulations on pistol stabilizing braces.
Someone should tell Matt Gaetz to do something productive......
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Old 01-18-2023, 01:13 PM   #171
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Unfortunately, I had all my rods in my boat and it was lost in a hunting accident,,, all was lost in the woods,,, or how ever that saying goes....
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Old 01-18-2023, 01:27 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by CRM_95 View Post
So hypothetically...since the $200 fee is waived right now...could I get tax stamps for say 3 or 4 lowers and build SBR's from all of them on the ATF's dime? Or is it just for a current pistol configuration gun you already own?
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuackHunter View Post
A few things on this. To be eligible for the free stamp you have to prove ownership of the firearm prior to January 13th. You also have to show that it is in a restricted configuration. IF you do that then the stamps can be filed to you as an individual only and not into a trust. I’d you so desire to have those items on a trust you will have to pay a regular stamp or later form 4 them to yourself and again pay the $200 stamp per.


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This is what I am wanting to know and I am seeing lots of people on both sides for this (the ATF document however says what you are saying ).... The ruling is BS and more infringement and should be fought. I will however try and SBR my EPC (no stock or assembled and waiting to purchase the rest to file) and want to get another 300blk lower because I want free stamps... NO plans of converting any pistols but if they are handing out free stamps I am all for it (if this thing ever gets more legs) lol

Also complained to my rep also about the ruling.

Last edited by 150class; 01-18-2023 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 01-18-2023, 03:05 PM   #173
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So is the brace ruled illegal or an AR pistol?

In other words if I had an AR pistol with a brace, could you just take the brace off and be good?
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Old 01-18-2023, 03:15 PM   #174
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So is the brace ruled illegal or an AR pistol?

In other words if I had an AR pistol with a brace, could you just take the brace off and be good?
The brace by itself is not illegal. They have just decided that a Brace is now considered a Stock. So an AR Pistol with a Brace is now considered an SBR because the brace = stock. So they give the option to register as SBR or reconfigure it back to what they consider a pistol

An AR Pistol with just a smooth buffer tube or foam sleeve is still considered a pistol
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Old 01-18-2023, 03:19 PM   #175
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So is the brace ruled illegal or an AR pistol?

In other words if I had an AR pistol with a brace, could you just take the brace off and be good?
It's all about intent. They are saying having a brace or anything that aids in shouldering = intent...maybe. A buffer tube will likely get you in trouble. Or maybe it won't. You won't know until they decide how much they like/dislike you. It's all intentionally clear as mud.


The best course of action right now is to wait for the rule to actually be published and let the lawsuits hit. I don't own any "pistols" or "braces", but I would not be lining up to comply with this jumbled up cluster just yet.
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Old 01-18-2023, 05:37 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Raider4044 View Post
Where are you seeing that you canít file as a trust? Not sure how they expect you to prove ownership either.


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Old 01-18-2023, 05:44 PM   #177
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Also just to add a thought to this for everyone considering filing a stamp. At current rates weíre seeing 6 month returns on eforms. Say even 5% of the estimated 10-40 million brace owners files for one of these ďfreeĒ stamps, what do we expect to see happen to turnaround times. In addition to this are you deemed a felon if your stamp isnít approved in the 120 (115 remaining) days or are you ďsafeĒ once you register your gun.

Truly and honestly I expect to see a lot of opposition to the ruling in the courts and Iíd like to be optimistic and say it will get shot down based on recent court decisions.


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Old 01-18-2023, 07:03 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Raider4044 View Post
Where are you seeing that you canít file as a trust? Not sure how they expect you to prove ownership either.


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They want to see your schedule A lmao. NO WAY. I donít even provide my schedule A on any NFA purchases. Never have. They get my trust. Anyone wants to see my schedule A has to come ask. Or kiss my schedule Ace. Iíve got a bunch of registered NFA stuff. As do a lot here. But this is a clown show and forced registration to a T.
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Old 01-18-2023, 07:06 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Quackerbox View Post
So a gun shop near me sent this email...........I used them once for a transfer and ended up on their email list. Trying to decide how to respond to the email
ATF Pistol Brace Ban is Official!
Find out how it affects you and what you can do.



Itís finally here. The ATF Ruling is now final. Iím sure youíve already received notices from many pro-2A websites you subscribe to including our friends at Silencer Shop. But thereís a few MAJOR things theyíve left out (maybe because they donít know yet). And thatís why you shop with us! We have the detailsÖand youíre not going to like them. But weíre here to help.

In short, and as youíve likely read by now, the ruling goes to great lengths to effectively ban most AR Pistol configurations. There are ways to comply, but they are clear that a violation, as judged solely by them, will be considered a felony worth a $250,000 fine and 10 years in prison.

The solution? Use our e-form 1 service to SBR your AR Pistol and donít worry about it! Now hereís the rub:



Per every article youíve received, youíve seen they are offering a 120-day grace period to convert your pistol to an SBR. Theyíre even willing to waive the $200 tax stamp! Right? Thatís what everyone is saying.



WRONG! (Mostly)



To get the waiver, here are the requirements (that you donít discover until you start the form 1 process):



The AR Pistol must have been a pistol by Jan 13, 2023.

You, the applicant must have owned it before then (so much for these clearance sale pistol lowers).

(This is the real sneaky one) If you want to register it in a trust, you must be able to prove (by way of notary) that you already put the pistol in the trust prior to Jan 13, 2023!

If you owned it before Jan 13, 2023, expect that youíll be registering it as an individual and putting your actual name engraved on the receiver if you want the $200 tax stamp waived.



ďBut I want it in my trust!!Ē



You can still register your AR Pistol in the trust. You just donít get the waiver on the fee. Youíll pay $200 just like you ever would to register an SBR.

That said, our e-form 1s have been moving at lightning speed taking just 10-12 days for approval. Realize there will be a FLOOD of applications to SBR the AR Pistols so, like the ď90-day eform 4sĒ that take 8 months, realize your eform 1 could take significantly longer. At least you get to hold on to your AR Pistol while you wait. Maybe. They havenít been clear on the 120-day grace period if that means that as long as you have it in process then itís not illegal to possess it while waiting.

Contact us today to get in the queue to start your eform-1. The process can take an hour or more in-house plus the engraving after the approval.



To start the process, email us your request for e-form 1 information at sales@.net. We will send you our starter kit. Keep in mind, we can get you the $200 waiver, but it will almost certainly require you registering as an individual. You can always transfer it to your trust laterÖfor $200. Thanks ATF.

Will this be overturned eventually? Maybe. The bumpstocks only took 4 years. In the meantime, hide your dog under you bed. At least if you register it as an SBR you can take off that silly brace and put a real stock on it.

You heard it here first.



See you soon.
WTH gun shop sent this? I wouldn't ever step foot or spend another dime with them again.

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Old 01-18-2023, 07:09 PM   #180
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Also just to add a thought to this for everyone considering filing a stamp. At current rates weíre seeing 6 month returns on eforms. Say even 5% of the estimated 10-40 million brace owners files for one of these ďfreeĒ stamps, what do we expect to see happen to turnaround times. In addition to this are you deemed a felon if your stamp isnít approved in the 120 (115 remaining) days or are you ďsafeĒ once you register your gun.

Truly and honestly I expect to see a lot of opposition to the ruling in the courts and Iíd like to be optimistic and say it will get shot down based on recent court decisions.


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You have already been deemed a felon.....they are just giving you a pass.

On their frequently asked questions, they respond to that and say if you apply for the tax before 120 days you are covered.

I haven't seen where this is published on the Federal Register yet. Is it?
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Old 01-18-2023, 07:13 PM   #181
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They want to see your schedule A lmao. NO WAY. I donít even provide my schedule A on any NFA purchases. Never have. They get my trust. Anyone wants to see my schedule A has to come ask. Or kiss my schedule Ace. Iíve got a bunch of registered NFA stuff. As do a lot here. But this is a clown show and forced registration to a T.
My schedule A isn't notorized, just has a witness signature(I don't think a date either)
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Old 01-18-2023, 08:35 PM   #182
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The brace by itself is not illegal. They have just decided that a Brace is now considered a Stock. So an AR Pistol with a Brace is now considered an SBR because the brace = stock. So they give the option to register as SBR or reconfigure it back to what they consider a pistol

An AR Pistol with just a smooth buffer tube or foam sleeve is still considered a pistol

Thatís not how I read the rule.


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Old 01-18-2023, 09:19 PM   #183
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They want to see your schedule A lmao. NO WAY. I donít even provide my schedule A on any NFA purchases. Never have. They get my trust. Anyone wants to see my schedule A has to come ask. Or kiss my schedule Ace. Iíve got a bunch of registered NFA stuff. As do a lot here. But this is a clown show and forced registration to a T.

Not exactly sure where youíre getting that out of having to prove ownership prior to January 13th and also having to prove configuration prior to January 13th. Itís a way for them to avoid everyone filing every **** thing they own as an SBR. Iím not sure why everyone thought it was just gonna be free SBR stamps no questions asked.


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Old 01-18-2023, 09:20 PM   #184
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An AR Pistol with just a smooth buffer tube or foam sleeve is still considered a pistol
You might want to do a little more research on that statement.

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Old 01-18-2023, 10:42 PM   #185
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Not exactly sure where youíre getting that out of having to prove ownership prior to January 13th and also having to prove configuration prior to January 13th. Itís a way for them to avoid everyone filing every **** thing they own as an SBR. Iím not sure why everyone thought it was just gonna be free SBR stamps no questions asked.


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How else do you prove ownership on your trust? What other paperwork besides your schedule A?

And who the hell puts standard firearms in your NFA trust?
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Old 01-19-2023, 07:24 AM   #186
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Bump stock ruling was overturned...
Stupidest thing Trump ever did. But we all knew it was just a Liberal
Band Aid.....
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Old 01-19-2023, 07:28 AM   #187
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I've been on a lot of murder and shooting scenes in my life. Not one involved a "supporting brace" or any of that. So FORNICATE you ATF.
yup......just nibbling away at the 2nd Amendment. Looks like you snuck that one by the Admins....LOL
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Old 01-19-2023, 07:30 AM   #188
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WTH gun shop sent this? I wouldn't ever step foot or spend another dime with them again.

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A&P armory in magnolia

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Old 01-19-2023, 07:36 AM   #189
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You might want to do a little more research on that statement.

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That is about Surface Area. A buttstock has surface area to spread the load over a larger area for recoil. The end of a plain buffer tube has the Surface Area of a 25 cent piece. The surface area of a "Brace" against your shoulder allows it to comfortably be fired that way.

Obviously left wide open since they didn't specify how much surface area is allowed or not. Would be nice if they gave you that in square inches, but that makes too much sense LOL
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Old 01-19-2023, 07:45 AM   #190
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That is about Surface Area. A buttstock has surface area to spread the load over a larger area for recoil. The end of a plain buffer tube has the Surface Area of a 25 cent piece. The surface area of a "Brace" against your shoulder allows it to comfortably be fired that way.

Obviously left wide open since they didn't specify how much surface area is allowed or not. Would be nice if they gave you that in square inches, but that makes too much sense LOL
It says, "Whether the surface area is" so that means ANY surface area regardless of size.
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Old 01-19-2023, 07:56 AM   #191
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The only thing I own with a pistol brace is a 11" Rem 700 308. since there is no buffer tube, I'm thinking I'll just remove the brace and get/build some sort of QD stock setup so I can just leave off most of the time when I'm not hunting.
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Old 01-19-2023, 08:11 AM   #192
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It says, "Whether the surface area is" so that means ANY surface area regardless of size.
So this is telling me that I can own an AR pistol with any buffer tube? It just goes to show how much BS this is.
Has anyone filed for there Form 1 yet. Would like to know how that went and it did not ask for payment at the end of the filing?
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Old 01-19-2023, 08:42 AM   #193
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So this is telling me that I can own an AR pistol with any buffer tube? It just goes to show how much BS this is.

Has anyone filed for there Form 1 yet. Would like to know how that went and it did not ask for payment at the end of the filing?
Yep. It goes on the say "any reward attachment necessary for action to cycle" or something like that. So to me, that means any upper shorter than 16", in any configuration make it a SBR.

The evil pistol brace isn't illegal on a 16" upper. So all those thinking they'll just remove the brace might want to think that through.

None of this matters to me because all mine sank with my boat on Jan 12th.

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Old 01-19-2023, 09:49 AM   #194
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Here is a screen shot from the "eforms" website for filing the SBR. There is now a place to get it for free.
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Old 01-19-2023, 09:49 AM   #195
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What they're saying is; a Brace is crap and if you put a stock on it it's SBR. Either way you have to pay your $200 and let us keep track of you and what you have and if you don't you're a criminal. Unless it's a 16" barrel or longer and can't be considered as a pistol... and it can't be automatic either. (Soon they'll say no high capacity magazines).....
He77, Pakistan has more Freedom than we do when it comes to weapons
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Old 01-19-2023, 09:53 AM   #196
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Here is a screen shot from the "eforms" website for filing the SBR. There is now a place to get it for free.
IMHO, The ATF Form is Registration. Registration Leads To Confiscation.
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Old 01-19-2023, 10:10 AM   #197
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IMHO, The ATF Form is Registration. Registration Leads To Confiscation.

Yep.


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Old 01-19-2023, 10:51 AM   #198
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^^^^^^^^ yup ! ^^^^^^^
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Old 01-19-2023, 11:05 AM   #199
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You might want to do a little more research on that statement.

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You're reading that wrong. The buffer tube is necessary for the operation of the pistol, the brace is not. You can remove (and destroy/permanently alter) the brace and be legal.
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Old 01-19-2023, 11:52 AM   #200
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You're reading that wrong. The buffer tube is necessary for the operation of the pistol, the brace is not. You can remove (and destroy/permanently alter) the brace and be legal.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

To me it clearly states ANY rearward attachment from the receiver; which (by my understanding) would any AR pistol a SBR now.

Like I said, I don't have any to worry about.

I hope everyone can interpret all this BS in a way that makes sense to them, and figures out their game plan. Good luck.
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