I almost forgot why I hate outserts!

[Kirby86]

Debating going to hot melt for these VAPs!

I keep my hunting arrows separate from my practice arrows but noticed a few fliers lately so I threw them on my spin tester.

13 out of 3 dozen have wobble. And before anyone asks, I mark and spin test them when I install them and in the past I’ve used 2 part epoxy and .30-06 insert weld. I also shoot full length arrows because of my DL.

These are the 50gr Shok TLs. What’s weird to me is that I’ve hit solid wood and other things in the past that I was certain would’ve caused a bend, only to have the outsert spin true.

I want to say maybe it’s my target but I’m shooting a Bigshot which pulls easy enough, and I rarely shoot bag targets unless it’s at a static range.

Anyone ever used hot melt on these and had them NOT pull out? That way I could at least salvage some money if they bend! I’ve shot vaps off and on now for over a decade and had moved away from them until I had a Victory rep talk me into them and sent me a dozen for free. Looks like they still have a ways to go. At this point after this season I’ll prolly go back to .204s unless someone has a magic solution.

[Kirby86]

I almost forgot why I hate outserts!

Well, I may have found a solution besides hot melt. I’m pretty certain these were glued with .30-06 insert weld.

As long as I keep pressure on the arrow, the glue breaks loose before the carbon starts to burn.

I doubt this is gonna work with epoxy.

[Kirby86]

2 part epoxy seemed to break at a lower temp. Kinda surprised me.

[muddyfuzzy]

Yeah I don’t know what to tell you, I’ve been shooting them for over a decade now with no issues to report. Must be a component issue or a process problem causing your dissatisfaction.


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[Strummer]

That why I use the firenock ones . They seem to hold up the best for me . I have tried hot melt before . If I remember right they pulled off in my blob target .

[Kirby86]

I almost forgot why I hate outserts!

Yeah I don’t know what to tell you, I’ve been shooting them for over a decade now with no issues to report. Must be a component issue or a process problem causing your dissatisfaction.


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I wish it were that. Not quite sure in the process what I could be doing wrong but I’m open to suggestions.
I index them, throw them on a spin tester and mark em with a sharpie when I get them spinning true. And I rarely have to use an arrow square to get them straight. I’ve tried .30-06 insert weld, Bohning insert iron, JB weld and Easton 2 part epoxy.

Which outsert are you running?

This is the 3rd generation of victory’s outsert and it’s been better than the previous 2.

I know several folks hate micro shafts for this very reason but I can’t bring myself to convert to a deep six or iron will’s snyder core system. I’ve used the firenock outsert but they bent for me as well.

[BTLowry]

I can't wrap my brain around how they are getting bent just shooting into a target

Watching this to see solution, hope you get it figured out

Just out of curiosity, are you using carbon on both sets of rollers when spinning? My blob leaves some funk on the arrow shaft, thought maybe some residue on the carbon down close to the outsert that is not noticeable? Would not take much

[muddyfuzzy]

I wish it were that. Not quite sure in the process what I could be doing wrong but I’m open to suggestions.
I index them, throw them on a spin tester and mark em with a sharpie when I get them spinning true. And I rarely have to use an arrow square to get them straight. I’ve tried .30-06 insert weld, Bohning insert iron, JB weld and Easton 2 part epoxy.

Which outsert are you running?

This is the 3rd generation of victory’s outsert and it’s been better than the previous 2.

I know several folks hate micro shafts for this very reason but I can’t bring myself to convert to a deep six or iron will’s snyder core system. I’ve used the firenock outsert but they bent for me as well.

I use the factory stainless outserts from Black Eagle on my Deep Impacts. First I would say there is no place for aluminum with outserts. There is no comparison between steel vs aluminum in overall strength. I’m a firm believer in 2-part slow set epoxy for outserts. I sand the shaft OD down to near press fit with each outsert, is one is set up as a pair. Afterwards I clean all the bonding surfaces with DNA and let them dry. Next I apply the epoxy to the shaft OD and press on the Outsert. While pressing the outsert onto the shaft I give it about two complete turns to spread the epoxy evenly between the outsert and shaft. I think this is one of the more critical steps as you want the outsert concentric to the shaft. Rotating the outsert will force an even layer of epoxy to form centering the outsert to the shaft. Lastly, I always let them do a 24 hr cure in the vertical position. The most common mistake I see with the whole process is folks removing too much of the shaft OD creating loose fitment between the two surfaces. This makes the bond a weak point as well give the assembly the chance to yield under a load.


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[Kirby86]

I use the factory stainless outserts from Black Eagle on my Deep Impacts. First I would say there is no place for aluminum with outserts. There is no comparison between steel vs aluminum in overall strength. I’m a firm believer in 2-part slow set epoxy for outserts. I sand the shaft OD down to near press fit with each outsert, is one is set up as a pair. Afterwards I clean all the bonding surfaces with DNA and let them dry. Next I apply the epoxy to the shaft OD and press on the Outsert. While pressing the outsert onto the shaft I give it about two complete turns to spread the epoxy evenly between the outsert and shaft. I think this is one of the more critical steps as you want the outsert concentric to the shaft. Rotating the outsert will force an even layer of epoxy to form centering the outsert to the shaft. Lastly, I always let them do a 24 hr cure in the vertical position. The most common mistake I see with the whole process is folks removing too much of the shaft OD creating loose fitment between the two surfaces. This makes the bond a weak point as well give the assembly the chance to yield under a load.


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That’s interesting! I always disliked having to sand them when I worked at an archery shop because the black Eagle outserts were more labor intensive with sanding but you’re the second person now that I’ve spoke To recently that hasn’t had issues with their solid stainless.

The ones I’m running are 50gr aluminum throughout. And that’s likely the problem.

If I go up 45-100gr I’m gonna be looking at a 600 gr arrow. I’m around 540 right now shooting 290. Victory also makes a stainless post with aluminum collar that’s 75gr but if I’m gonna stay with outserts it looks like I need to go the SS route.

Anyone shot the ethics system? If I go all steel with that route I think they’re in the 150 - 200gr range.

Thanks for your input folks!

[TexasCanesFan]

I agree on avoiding the aluminum outserts. They seem to have the vast majority of the issues historically.

[muddyfuzzy]

I almost forgot why I hate outserts!

That’s interesting! I always disliked having to sand them when I worked at an archery shop because the black Eagle outserts were more labor intensive with sanding but you’re the second person now that I’ve spoke To recently that hasn’t had issues with their solid stainless.

The ones I’m running are 50gr aluminum throughout. And that’s likely the problem.

If I go up 45-100gr I’m gonna be looking at a 600 gr arrow. I’m around 540 right now shooting 290. Victory also makes a stainless post with aluminum collar that’s 75gr but if I’m gonna stay with outserts it looks like I need to go the SS route.

Anyone shot the ethics system? If I go all steel with that route I think they’re in the 150 - 200gr range.

Thanks for your input folks!

I use them (ethics) for my dangerous game builds. They work well are are weight adjustable. They offer a SS post and SS collar (outsert) that works very well.


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[Kirby86]

I use them (ethics) for my dangerous game builds. They work well are are weight adjustable. They offer a SS post and SS collar (outsert) that works very well.

It looks like if go that route I'll have to run the stainless post with an aluminum collar. Otherwise I'm pretty certain I'll be underspined.

My gut tells me the post is more important than the collar for being stainless but I am in total agreement that most aluminums suck.

It looks like a lot of these outserts are made of 303 stainless which isn't very well thought of, but it at least looks better than 7075 aluminum.

Supposedly Black Eagle uses a different steel for their half outs. Not sure on the FOCOS and I didn't see anything on what steel type Ethics uses but its interesting. I have no desire to try Easton's titaniums either.

[Kirby86]

Pulled the old aluminum outserts, was able to get away with cutting a half inch off after all.

Went with the 95gr stainless outserts from victory. Got it shooting fletched with bareshaft out to 20 today.

According to my buddy’s archer advantage I’m way underspined. I don’t trust the programs so much from what I’ve seen thus far, but who knows.

I never did much spin testing of field point brands prior to this. It’s a bit surprising how bad some field points wobble out of the box!

[Kirby86]

Well one buck down with the heavier outserts and so far so good.

It was a frontal shot and he broke the arrow in half but I was able to recover it and both the broadhead and outsert spun true on the 18 inch section of arrow.

I guess he broke it when he dropped his head to run, so that’s about as good as I figure it gets!

[muddyfuzzy]

It looks like if go that route I'll have to run the stainless post with an aluminum collar. Otherwise I'm pretty certain I'll be underspined.

My gut tells me the post is more important than the collar for being stainless but I am in total agreement that most aluminums suck.

It looks like a lot of these outserts are made of 303 stainless which isn't very well thought of, but it at least looks better than 7075 aluminum.

Supposedly Black Eagle uses a different steel for their half outs. Not sure on the FOCOS and I didn't see anything on what steel type Ethics uses but its interesting. I have no desire to try Easton's titaniums either.

303 is basically the same as 304 with additional Sulphur added to aid in the machining process. The material is fine for its intended use in this case and still more durable than aluminum by a country mile.


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