Lead Ammo Debate

[StickFlinger]

So this may stir the pot, I don't know because I really don't shoot a lot unless it's my bow. I know there's been a push to remove lead from all ammo along with the gun laws the left is trying pass. However, I don't really grasp how there is opposition to swapping to steel or whatever alternative metal will replace lead. Sure there may be a price increase, but it's very well know that lead is highly toxic to humans and animals. That lead makes it's way back to you via the birds and animals you eat, or the water that you drink. This may just be liberal media blowing things out of proportion (wouldn't surprise me one bit), that's all I get out here in the Bering Sea.

So what say you gun finatics? Do you oppose getting rid of lead? If so, why?

[tdwinklr]

There may be other metals out there to takes its place but I've no idea what they are, honestly I don't know what could be better than lead, as far as good mushrooming properties for bullets goes and shear weight.
As far as being poisonous to humans and animals, shooting any projectile into a living organism sounds pretty poisonous to me.

[MadHatter]

Migratory birds is the only place I could see it being a issue.
I don't think us Americans shoot enough bullets to worry about it affecting our water.
As far as animals, I haven't shot a animal with a bullet containing lead in a long time.
Personally I see no downside to eliminating it, either way it won't affect me other than price, and after the last 2 yrs I'm gonna be a old man before I worry about buying ammo again.

[Smart]

It IS highly toxic to animals that get shot with it...and that's a good thing..

[StickFlinger]

The only personal experience I have seeing it is when I was younger I duck hunted public land in Anahuac, ducks out there had bbs in their gizzards occasionally. Also some delineation surveys have shown trace amounts of lead within fish populations in these marshes. Obviously this has already been addressed as duck hunting requires steel shot.

Mushrooming, are ballistic tips not the same thing but some sort of polymer instead of lead?

Yes I agree, being shot is quite toxic LOL

[tdwinklr]

The only personal experience I have seeing it is when I was younger I duck hunted public land in Anahuac, ducks out there had bbs in their gizzards occasionally. Also some delineation surveys have shown trace amounts of lead within fish populations in these marshes. Obviously this has already been addressed as duck hunting requires steel shot.

Mushrooming, are ballistic tips not the same thing but some sort of polymer instead of lead?

Yes I agree, being shot is quite toxic LOL

I would have to agree there are a few lead pellets in most living ducks down this way. LOL

I've never opened up a Ballistic Tip bullet but I believe the tip is there to drive the copper jacket open sooner(?) and there is still lead in the core for weight purposes.

[DUKFVR]

More liberal crybaby hype. Sky is falling!

[softpoint]

It's pretty hard to ingest enough lead to be harmful. I've casted bullets for 50 years, in a poorly ventilated shop, I've eaten game for longer than that that was shot with lead ammunition, and salvaged lead by melting all sorts of scrap. My lead levels are normal. A lot of the lead hype is BS. There are ways you can get harmful levels of lead into your system, but none of those ways involve firearms or bullets that I'm aware of. Unless, of course you get shot.

[SCHC]

There is probably 1000X more lead in the environment from lost wheel weights vs bullets. Lefty fanatics at it again...

[Hardware]

Funny how they talk about lead in bullets or shot used for hunting but both these sources pale in comparison to manufacturing caused contamination, lead in water from lead pipes, lead soldering of food containers and many more. In my opinion it's cruelty to migratory birds since the banning of lead shot more birds are wounded and die inhumanely.

[softpoint]

Funny how they talk about lead in bullets or shot used for hunting but both these sources pale in comparison to manufacturing caused contamination, lead in water from lead pipes, lead soldering of food containers and many more. In my opinion it's cruelty to migratory birds since the banning of lead shot more birds are wounded and die inhumanely.

And a lead bullet or shot can be left in flesh and the wound will heal around it, and it still won't cause lead poison. On the other hand, a steel bullet or shot, unless it is a high grade of stainless/nickel content, will rust and create a nasty infection or cyst.

[TxBowHntr]

Lead is the most efficient (does the best job for the $) material for hunting ammunition as of right now. Yes, you can spend a lot more for mono-metal bullets, with some special designed tip to try and make it perform as well as lead, but few if any will perform better.

There is also no credible study showing that lead rifle ammunition from hunters are causing any kind of negative affects on the land or animals (outside of the obvious detriment to the target animal). Another note, I used to work at a very large gun range way back when. Multiple sporting clays courses, numerous skeet and 5-stand fields, as well as rifle and pistol ranges. It was built back in the 80's on land managed by the COE. Per the lease, we had to have testing done every handful of years (3 or 5, I don't remember the cadence) to ensure the soil and environment were not being negatively impacted. Approximately 20 years and who knows how much lead later, the tests came back WELL within the normal limits. If this land can get hammered with that much lead and still be within the limits, then surely the rest of nature can take hunters who shoot a handful of lead ammo a year.

[jdg13]

More hype to make the eco-freaks money somehow. Lead is only "harmful" if you're the kid in class eating paint chips off the wall. A few BBs isn't enough lead to hurt you. The ducks do get it in their gizzards, but short of it being highly concentrated, doesn't kill them.

Here's what lead's not toxic replacements don't do: Kill as efficiently. At high velocity and close range (the average person shooting deer 100yd away with a .30-06) expansion can be a problem with all copper bullets, though some are better than others. Tungsten shot is amazing, better than lead, but you better have a vault full of cash. Steel shot is absolute garbage compared to lead because of the lower density. Cripple more birds in order to save the animals. Makes perfect sense. Let's go ahead and ban building houses on prime animal habitat. That'd be alot more beneficial in the grand scheme of things.

[Capt Glenn]

I agree with the increased wounding of waterfowl with steel. Especially when jdg13 is shooting.

It's something that had some merit in a few situations but was taken way to an extreme IMO. I'm talking in the waterfowl hunting world. There are and were a few locations where there is high volume shooting and those pellets lay on the bottom of ponds or in fields and for different reasons stay where they are available to be ingested. In most of the situations and places I have hunted I would doubt there is much to worry about. For sure nothing to worry about when it comes to lead in your food or water. Just as far as waterfowl picking lead shot up as grit which is supposed to be fatal. Hunters definitely wound a bunch of waterfowl with steel every year.

I don't think lead and lead core bullets for hunting will ever be a real and honest health concern. You are probably sprinkling maybe a couple to a few ounces of lead a year onto thousands of acres.

The only place I could see lead being an issue is at shooting ranges. Indoor so you don't have airborn lead particles and outdoor where you shoot into earth berms because a high volume range could deposit a pretty impressive amount of lead over the years.

[Drycreek3189]

The lead in shotshells thing was merely a roadblock thrown up by anti-hunters and embraced by the ammo manufacturers because…..guess what, we can charge mire money ! And I’m another one with the opinion that steel shot cause more lost dead ducks than lead. I can’t say that’s from personal experience because when the law put lead out for waterfowl I quit duck hunting. It was also tried with lead weights, jigs, etc. but the fishermen raised enough hell that it didn’t happen. Only commie Kalifornia blindly followed the bunny huggers and declared no-lead zones for rifle ammo as far as I know. Could be some other states that I’m not aware of.