Red dot on EDC?

[bloodtrail18]

Yes I meant RMR (I just sold an MRO). I prefer iron sights too, but again, it comes down to training. I wouldn't say irons are better just because I'm faster with iron sights. That's obviously not the case for a lot of guys. That's my point.

That's the thing, most people are faster with irons from the draw to the first shot. Try it for yourself on a timer or leave your IDPA fishing vest at home and try a real shooting sport. Watch the guys shooting a classifier stage that have to shoot with their off hand on occasion. You'll see several guys wiggling their gun around trying to see their dot because they aren't used to the funky grip they have on the gun.

[TX03RUBI]

I have literally never seen anyone pull their irons off when they added a red dot. Now some chose not to add the correct height sights afterwards, but that’s not the same thing as removing them. Anyways if you’re recommending it to them you can always just recommend them not be idiots and remove their sights for no reason.

I’m not recommending anyone get a red dot or not get a red dot. For me I see it as a upgrade personally. That’s just my preference.

[BigJimmyRustler]

See post 17 where is the irons? I have seen more folks yank the irons off and put an optic in its place than I have the other way around.

And comparing a car to a ccw pistol is like comparing a potato to an apple. Not even close. And yes I know more than a few people who have burned up a car not changing the oil. You guys have to much faith in humanity. If your on this thread reading this you are not on the same playing field as most of the gun owning community.

No skin off my back. But I will never suggest to a beginner, new shooter or the general public to put their faith in an electronic device for something they may have to use in a life or death scenario.

But if you maintain it keep it functional and practice with it yeah it is the superior optic but most folks don't do that. So blindly telling folks to do that is bad form with out adding that caveat.

Sent from my E6910 using Tapatalk

Mine ride right there in front of the RMR.


You are right though, comparing changing a battery once a year to the constant upkeep of a vehicle isn't a fair comparison. Vehicle upkeep is much more intensive.

[westtexducks]

I have literally never seen anyone pull their irons off when they added a red dot. Now some chose not to add the correct height sights afterwards, but that’s not the same thing as removing them. Anyways if you’re recommending it to them you can always just recommend them not be idiots and remove their sights for no reason.

I’m not recommending anyone get a red dot or not get a red dot. For me I see it as a upgrade personally. That’s just my preference.

Mine ride right there in front of the RMR.


You are right though, comparing changing a battery once a year to the constant upkeep of a vehicle isn't a fair comparison. Vehicle upkeep is much more intensive.

There are tons of mounts that you take the rear site off and then add the mount to be able to add the dot. Have yall not been seeing folks use these? I have seen these more than I have people buying optic ready pistols and then adding them in. And is there really a difference in if they yank them off or don't replace them with the correct site height? Did any one on here actually tell the dude hey just make sure if you get a dot to also upgrade the irons as well just in case? Nope not a soul... That's a problem.

And not sure why the obsession with the car reference. You just aren't picking up what I am putting down the general public will take care of their car, house, shoes, **** near everything better than they do their CCW. They get scared when a liberal gets elected go take the class, and then start dragging one around and never put any more thought into, that is your normal CCW person. Like I mentioned above what you me and dupree are doing is going to be way more than what the average person does, so giving a generic yeah man they are bad *** without any form of warning, more info, or anything is doing that person a disservice.

https://velocitytriggers.com/product/glock-red-dot-mount/

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1592281-REG/trijicon_ac32098_rmrcc_pistol_dovetail_mount.html

https://www.truglo.com/pistol-red-dot-sight-mount/

[TX03RUBI]

There are tons of mounts that you take the rear site off and then add the mount to be able to add the dot. Have yall not been seeing folks use these? I have seen these more than I have people buying optic ready pistols and then adding them in. And is there really a difference in if they yank them off or don't replace them with the correct site height? Did any one on here actually tell the dude hey just make sure if you get a dot to also upgrade the irons as well just in case? Nope not a soul... That's a problem.

https://velocitytriggers.com/product/glock-red-dot-mount/

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1592281-REG/trijicon_ac32098_rmrcc_pistol_dovetail_mount.html

https://www.truglo.com/pistol-red-dot-sight-mount/

I’ve seen the mounts, I just don’t know anyone that uses them. I don’t even see people using them. It’s not an issue when many of the newer carry pistols are milled to accept a sight and still cowitness the factory sights. Do I think they should be upgraded? Possibly. Do I think it’s a necessity? Absolutely not with many of the options out there now. Some combinations absolutely. Again I think it just comes down to preference and combination chosen.

Just like anything else you can’t chose the cheapest option and expect top tier performance.

[Mike D]

My aging eyes love the red dot sights since I can hardly see the front sight anymore. But I do not and will not carry one on my carry gun because I carry IWB and I think it’s just something else to poke and snag if trying to draw in a hurry.

If I was able to open carry everywhere I went I may run one on my carry guns.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Stan R]

I have a Glock 45 MOS and 2 48's with MOS.

Don't leave home without one.

[Quackerbox]

I guess I'm going to stir the pot a little bit here...

One of my best friends is currently in a high speed unit that I'm not going to name. We were just having this conversation the other day. They did a ton of testing and brought in a lot of real world experience before they switched over. They run Glock 19's with Trijicon MRO's on all of their secondary's now. They know a lot more than the key board warriors do on a bow hunting website.

However, Personally I don't run one. I shoot IDPA Stock service pistol class, so I'm just used to running my Trijicon HD iron sights.

Most of if not all of the two agencies of 'high speed' guys I deal with have some form of optic.

Im seriously considering an upgrade in duty guns and if I do, it will have one

[bloodtrail18]

Most of if not all of the two agencies of 'high speed' guys I deal with have some form of optic.

Im seriously considering an upgrade in duty guns and if I do, it will have one

Remember these "high speed" guys are carrying their weapons in a duty holster and most often have their weapons drawn well in advance of initial contact with a suspect or treat. You and I will most likely be drawing from concealment in an unexpected high stress situation.

[Quackerbox]

Remember these "high speed" guys are carrying their weapons in a duty holster and most often have their weapons drawn well in advance of initial contact with a suspect or treat. You and I will most likely be drawing from concealment in an unexpected high stress situation.

I'll be carrying on duty and drawing from a holster as well

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Arrowthreat]

Remember these "high speed" guys are carrying their weapons in a duty holster and most often have their weapons drawn well in advance of initial contact with a suspect or treat. You and I will most likely be drawing from concealment in an unexpected high stress situation.

That's completely false. These "guys" "units" don't clear houses with pistols. These are all secondary guns. If they have to use them, Crap has hit the fan and they need to make a shot just as fast as "you and me". It sounds like you're just trying to justify why you're not as fast with a red dot as irons. Its lack of training man. If it was slower for everyone, than nobody would be running them. The guys I shoot with who have switched all said the same thing at first. It takes time and training.

Also, there's tons of company's who make IWB concealment holsters for carry optics.

[bloodtrail18]

That's completely false. These "guys" "units" don't clear houses with pistols. These are all secondary guns. If they have to use them, Crap has hit the fan and they need to make a shot just as fast as "you and me". It sounds like you're just trying to justify why you're not as fast with a red dot as irons. Its lack of training man. If it was slower for everyone, than nobody would be running them. The guys I shoot with who have switched all said the same thing at first. It takes time and training.

Also, there's tons of company's who make IWB concealment holsters for carry optics.

I shoot more than 5k rounds of 9mm a year in pistols with red dots on them. I shoot competition with guys from the FBI, SWAT, and many local PD officers and most of them will not put a red dot on their carry guns. How many of the people here have done real tests to see which sighting system they can actually shoot faster on a shot timer? One shot, 7 yards, and a center mass "A" zone hit. I invite you or anyone else to sign up for a match and see how much training they think they have. I'm by no means the best shooter around and currently ranked A class in USPSA but the tactical Timmys with their multicam battle belts, glocks with red dots and everything but the kitchen sink hanging off of them consistently line the bottom of the barrel when the results come in. Like you said it takes time and training, putting a dot on your gun and shooting once a month isn't that.

[Arrowthreat]

I totally agree with you on the tacti-cool wannabes with Gucci guns. But carry optics are not that. I don’t understand your logic on CC. If someone pulls a gun on you and you have to draw and shoot, it doesn’t matter if you’re a CC civilian, SF operator, or cop. The idea is to shoot as fast and accurate as possible. My whole point of even bringing my buddy into this is because they literally shoot every single day. It’s their job. Their unit determined that carry optics were superior on pistols. I haven’t even started training with a carry optic, but I can recognize the advantage it gives you. Just like a red dot on a rifle. It really is the same thing.

I do understand your point on the average joe not training enough. It comes down to the fact that these are sorta a new thing. People who have shot irons on pistols their whole life are going to have to adjust to it and probably change the way they present the pistol to utilize the optic properly. A lot of these guys don’t want to do that, so they just brush it off and say it’s slower.

In regards to you offering people to come out and shoot, have you ever looked at the scores in competitions between carry optics and stock service pistols? There’s a reason why they’re in a different class.

[bloodtrail18]

I totally agree with you on the tacti-cool wannabes with Gucci guns. But carry optics are not that. I don’t understand your logic on CC. If someone pulls a gun on you and you have to draw and shoot, it doesn’t matter if you’re a CC civilian, SF operator, or cop. The idea is to shoot as fast and accurate as possible. My whole point of even bringing my buddy into this is because they literally shoot every single day. It’s their job. Their unit determined that carry optics were superior on pistols. I haven’t even started training with a carry optic, but I can recognize the advantage it gives you. Just like a red dot on a rifle. It really is the same thing.

My logic is that I've seen many people, myself included, draw from a holster and hesitate on the first shot because their dot isn't showing up in the glass because their grip was off on the draw. I'm strictly talking first shot from the draw which in a defensive situation is the most important shot.

The difference with irons and red dots on rifles is that you have a quick reference point to get lined up and shoot. On a pistol you will see your iron sights no matter how bad your grip is. On a rifle with any optic you have the gun mounted on your shoulder and cheek weld on the stock, there is no comparison to a pistol there.

I don't care how much you practice, when it's go time and you have to pull a pistol from whatever CC holster you choose you'll be lucky at best to get a good grip and fire a quick lethal shot with a red dot. That's all assuming your dot works and you don't snag it on clothing coming out of the holster.

In regards to match results, I mentioned in an earlier post that follow up shots and transitions between targets are much faster with a dot hence the faster stage times over irons. Take a look at the times from the timer beep to the first shot. Irons line up faster for a first shot but have to be realigned for consecutive shots whereas the dots will stay visible in the lens after recoil and get back on target quicker.

[trophy8]

My logic is that I've seen many people, myself included, draw from a holster and hesitate on the first shot because their dot isn't showing up in the glass because their grip was off on the draw. I'm strictly talking first shot from the draw which in a defensive situation is the most important shot.

The difference with irons and red dots on rifles is that you have a quick reference point to get lined up and shoot. On a pistol you will see your iron sights no matter how bad your grip is. On a rifle with any optic you have the gun mounted on your shoulder and cheek weld on the stock, there is no comparison to a pistol there.

I don't care how much you practice, when it's go time and you have to pull a pistol from whatever CC holster you choose you'll be lucky at best to get a good grip and fire a quick lethal shot with a red dot. That's all assuming your dot works and you don't snag it on clothing coming out of the holster.

In regards to match results, I mentioned in an earlier post that follow up shots and transitions between targets are much faster with a dot hence the faster stage times over irons. Take a look at the times from the timer beep to the first shot. Irons line up faster for a first shot but have to be realigned for consecutive shots whereas the dots will stay visible in the lens after recoil and get back on target quicker.

Serious question here. You’re saying even with a bad grip and bad slide angle that you can like up both iron sights faster than a single dot?

Or is it because you’ve practiced much more with irons than an optic and know how to adjust quicker?