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Old 09-02-2021, 08:02 AM   #1
BTLowry
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Default Arrow opinions

Thinking about buying a second bow and setting it up for heavy arrows to hunt hogs and possibly elk (or any other big critters I might get a chance at)

So thinking draw weight at 70# or slightly over

27-28" arrows and aiming for 550 or greater overall weight with a higher FOC

What are some suggestions for me to consider to get to that goal?

I thought I found some 250 spine Carbon Express arrows on sale to try yesterday but luckily I noticed the 250 was not the spine before I bought them.
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Old 09-02-2021, 08:07 AM   #2
Big Ace
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What bow, poundage, and DL? If you can give me that info I’ll run it through my calculators.
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Old 09-02-2021, 08:25 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTLowry View Post
Thinking about buying a second bow and setting it up for heavy arrows to hunt hogs and possibly elk (or any other big critters I might get a chance at)



So thinking draw weight at 70# or slightly over



27-28" arrows and aiming for 550 or greater overall weight with a higher FOC



What are some suggestions for me to consider to get to that goal?



I thought I found some 250 spine Carbon Express arrows on sale to try yesterday but luckily I noticed the 250 was not the spine before I bought them.
I started off with GT XT in 340 spine @ 420 grain. I was into speed.
I got into FOC and switched to a GT PRO shaft same 340 spine. I wanted more FOC so I switched to. GT Pierce shaft in a 250 spine and I'm up around 20% FOC now. However this build is over $30 each. I'm not too keen on flinging a $30+ arrow at a pig. I'm not expecting to get it back. So I have a second build I use on pigs. Similar build except I'm using the GT Warrior shaft & the Grim Reaper Hog head. I add an extra 20 grains FACT weight to the insert.

My quiver holds 5 arrows. I have 3 pig arrows and 2 deer arrows.
I'll shoot a pig arrow at a deer but not a deer arrow at a pig. Well unless it's Huuuuge :-)

Not sure if you've thought about a custom build. @muddyfuzzy he's one of our resident custom arrow builders.

If I ever get back into bow hunting full time again I'll have him build me a dozen.


I hope this answers your question
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Old 09-02-2021, 08:31 AM   #4
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I am using Easton Hexx 260 shafts with 125gr. Ethics inserts/sleeves and 125gr. heads. I am coming in at 540gr. TAW and 17% FOC. The other shaft I am contemplating going to is the Victory RIP TKO. It is even lighter GPI which will give more room for extra weight up front to increase FOC if that is what you want.
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Old 09-02-2021, 01:57 PM   #5
BTLowry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ace View Post
What bow, poundage, and DL? If you can give me that info I’ll run it through my calculators.
Possibly a Hoyt RX3 at 27.5"DL and 70#

Will definitely be a gently used vs new purchase whatever I decide

PB2 I am all about building my own, unless I can buy exactly what I want for less than I can buy components
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Old 09-02-2021, 10:34 PM   #6
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Easton axis are about the best I've found. I have a bow set up just like what you are wanting to do. I Shoot axis 300 with 75 grain brass hits.. if I remember I'm right Round 550 with 125 grain BH and collar. Axis are tough arrows and Made in the USA .
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Old 09-03-2021, 09:40 AM   #7
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Axis FMJ 240, 300, or 340 will get you over 500gr. If you want to go 600+ look at the Axis FMJ Dangerous Game version.
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Old 09-08-2021, 11:52 AM   #8
joshuasaul
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For arrow opinions I will share a list of broad head arrows, if you want to make sure that your shot count. check this list.
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Old 09-08-2021, 06:41 PM   #9
LouietheLurker
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I switched to the micro’s. I’ll never go back to standard. I got twice the penetration. Go to your pro shop and try them.
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Old 09-08-2021, 08:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouietheLurker View Post
I switched to the micro’s. I’ll never go back to standard. I got twice the penetration. Go to your pro shop and try them.
What medium did you get twice the penetration in?
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Old 09-08-2021, 11:10 PM   #11
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Interesting thanks
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Old 09-14-2021, 12:37 PM   #12
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My current setup:
Bowtech Revolt X 28.5", 66lbs
Three 2" Rapt-X
Gold Tip Hunter Pro 300s
100gr brass insert
125gr SEVR 2.0/125gr TOA 1 3/16
Total weight 520gr
265fps and 81lbs of KE, 20% FOC

I think this setup is good enough for any animal I'm going to chase, with the largest on the list Elk/Moose. That said, 95% of the time it will be hunting whitetail under 40 yards. If chasing something in the plains like Pronghorn, I'd likely get rid of the insert of front and get back some speed.

Good luck!

Last edited by mzurovec; 09-14-2021 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 09-14-2021, 01:25 PM   #13
Duckologist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouietheLurker View Post
I switched to the micro’s. I’ll never go back to standard. I got twice the penetration. Go to your pro shop and try them.
Diameter really has nothing to do with penetration unless you're speaking of field tips in foam.
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Old 09-14-2021, 01:29 PM   #14
Duckologist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzurovec View Post
My current setup:
Bowtech Revolt X 28.5", 66lbs
Three 2" Rapt-X
Gold Tip Hunter Pro 300s
100gr brass insert
125gr SEVR 2.0/125gr TOA 1 3/16
Total weight 520gr
265fps and 81lbs of KE, 20% FOC

I think this setup is good enough for any animal I'm going to chase, with the largest on the list Elk/Moose. That said, 95% of the time it will be hunting whitetail under 40 yards. If chasing something in the plains like Pronghorn, I'd likely get rid of the insert of front and get back some speed.

Good luck!
I'm shooting 60lbs
GT Velocity 300s
150 gr brass insert
100 gr Exodous head
Total weight 530gr, 18.5% FOC

Since going to this arrow setup I shot 2 deer, 1 at 40 yards and 1 at 25. The arrow zipped right through both and the deer reacted the same each time. They didn't know what happened and only took a few steps and then stood there until they tipped over.
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Old 09-14-2021, 01:49 PM   #15
aguinn84
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I'm similar to Duckologist.

60 lbs, 27.5 inch draw
Hoyt Ventum 30
Gold Tip Velocity hunters in 300 spine
Cut to 28 inches (cut from the side that wobbles the most)
100 grain Ethics steel inserts
150 grain Magnus Stinger
525 grains of total arrow weight, right around 19% FOC
They've zipped through everything I've shot to date
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Old 09-14-2021, 01:51 PM   #16
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If you want higher FOC you have to start with a really low GPI shaft or you just end up lobbing telephone poles on rainbow trajectories.... now if that's your thing you can start with about any arrow shaft, but lets say you want to keep a reasonable trajectory.

I'd start looking at Victory VAP, Victory VAP TKO, Easton Axis Long Range, and Black Eagle X-Impact. All of these are relatively light gpi micro arrows. The downside is they are micro which some people don't want to hassle with. Anything north of 9gpi is going to make getting any "higher" foc difficult.

This year I'm shooting at 300 VAP TKO with a 50gr outsert, and a 150 gr head. 26.5" carbon-to-carbon out of a 72# bow with a 27.5" DL. They are right around 280 fps, 500gr, quiet, and pack a nice thump.... without watching my arrow at 30 yards look like a high school hail mary pass.
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Old 09-14-2021, 02:21 PM   #17
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I'm shooting a Mathews Triax at 28.5". Just got back from South Africa and the arrows I used were Gold Tips Kinetic Kaos. Using 125 grain heads and 30 grain insert I was at 550 grains and had 17% FOC. I had pass throughs on all animals except my Kudo but I hit high in the shoulder blade and it lodged in the opposite should. None of the arrow broke either. They are .204" diameter and have a metal sleeve of the end which I think are vital for all smaller diameter arrows. You can get them off Black Ovis for pretty decent pricing.
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Old 09-14-2021, 05:34 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckologist View Post
Diameter really has nothing to do with penetration unless you're speaking of field tips in foam.

This is not correct, shaft to ferrule ratio has a pretty profound impact on penetration. It doesn’t matter how much smaller the shaft is just as long as it’s smaller than the ferrule diameter. Conversely, if the shaft is larger than the ferrule additional drag is created and penetration will be lost.


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Old 09-14-2021, 06:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddyfuzzy View Post
This is not correct, shaft to ferrule ratio has a pretty profound impact on penetration. It doesn’t matter how much smaller the shaft is just as long as it’s smaller than the ferrule diameter. Conversely, if the shaft is larger than the ferrule additional drag is created and penetration will be lost.


It seems as though the hole the broadhead makes is a lot larger hole than the arrow shaft no?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
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Old 09-14-2021, 06:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckologist View Post
It seems as though the hole the broadhead makes is a lot larger hole than the arrow shaft no?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
Mine is… by a LOT! Lol
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Old 09-14-2021, 07:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckologist View Post
It seems as though the hole the broadhead makes is a lot larger hole than the arrow shaft no?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Drag is drag, anything that you can do to reduce it will aid in penetration.


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Old 09-14-2021, 07:26 PM   #22
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How much faster is a small diameter at say 20 yards than the standard diameter? Same weight of course

Has there been a test on this?
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Old 09-14-2021, 07:49 PM   #23
Buffalo1
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Easton Axis and Easton FMJ are two tried and proven shafts. Use 75 gr. brass HIT insert and 125 gr. BH's. You will have to do some experimenting to find the right spined shaft for you bow set up.
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Old 09-14-2021, 08:09 PM   #24
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the diameter will not effect the flight speed at 20 yard enough to matter. The diameter matters when penetrating an animal. A small amount of taper from a greater diameter to a smaller diameter from front to back is beneficial to penetration. Ashbybowhunting.org has some good information on all of the stuff youre talking about wanting to do. Ill be bouncing to grizzlystik.com also will custom set up your arrows for you to 650 grains if you'd like to go with them.
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Old 09-14-2021, 09:52 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddyfuzzy View Post
Drag is drag, anything that you can do to reduce it will aid in penetration.


Maybe somebody will do a test and write a paper comparing the difference in penetration from micro diameter shaft vs a standard shaft behind a broad head in animals. Of course, both shafts need to have equal weight, foc, and speed.
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Old 09-14-2021, 11:28 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzurovec View Post
My current setup:
Bowtech Revolt X 28.5", 66lbs
Three 2" Rapt-X
Gold Tip Hunter Pro 300s
100gr brass insert
125gr SEVR 2.0/125gr TOA 1 3/16
Total weight 520gr
265fps and 81lbs of KE, 20% FOC

I think this setup is good enough for any animal I'm going to chase, with the largest on the list Elk/Moose. That said, 95% of the time it will be hunting whitetail under 40 yards. If chasing something in the plains like Pronghorn, I'd likely get rid of the insert of front and get back some speed.

Good luck!

Have you shot that through a chrono to get that speed? That seems extremely fast for those specs you gave.


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Old 09-14-2021, 11:33 PM   #27
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And on the skinny shafts…

I honestly think that once you poke a hole larger than the shaft of the arrow and lubricate that shaft with blood, penetration is negligible.

Skinnys will out penetrate a .246 all day long and twice on Sundays in foam, and by a lot. They’ll also cut wind better. But lube those babies up in a hole that’s multiple times larger than the shaft, and I haven’t seen how it matters at all in the real world.


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Old 09-15-2021, 08:12 AM   #28
joshuasaul
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if you are worrying about the weight and size, you should use Recursive crossbows for hunting , and add Broad Head Arrows with it to kill big Animals.
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Old 09-15-2021, 08:17 AM   #29
xman59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTLowry View Post
Thinking about buying a second bow and setting it up for heavy arrows to hunt hogs and possibly elk (or any other big critters I might get a chance at)

So thinking draw weight at 70# or slightly over

27-28" arrows and aiming for 550 or greater overall weight with a higher FOC

What are some suggestions for me to consider to get to that goal?

I thought I found some 250 spine Carbon Express arrows on sale to try yesterday but luckily I noticed the 250 was not the spine before I bought them.
pse mamba shafts will get you there with ease
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Old 09-15-2021, 08:30 AM   #30
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For elk, I'd get something like the Dangerous Game 250 FMJ's. But I'd be hesitant about sticking very many hogs with expensive arrows and broadheads...For that, I'd get cheaper arrows and weight them with inserts and maybe some trimmer string. Hogs around here can go a long ways into nearly impenetrable thickets with arrows, and sometimes just aren't worth the effort to go try to retrieve the arrow....No need to ask how I know that..

Last edited by softpoint; 09-15-2021 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 09-15-2021, 08:54 AM   #31
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Best I could come up with those specs is the following:
Rampage .300 @ 27”
140 insert 125 point
10 grain wrap
4 fletch
Lighted nock
554 grains shooting 265 out of the RX3.
If you wanted to trim the arrow a bit to say 25.5” that would open some other options.
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Old 09-15-2021, 09:11 AM   #32
mzurovec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quackadikt View Post
Have you shot that through a chrono to get that speed? That seems extremely fast for those specs you gave.


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I shot three arrows through the chrono at Archery Country in Austin, Texas to determine that speed. I can't testify as to how accurate that unit is, but using that speed for my sight tape has been spot on.
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Old 09-15-2021, 09:15 AM   #33
mzurovec
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For all the tinkerers out there (probably most on this page), I encourage you to look at a program like Archer's Advantage or other similar offering. Getting your bow in the optimal setup with your arrows/points is pretty fun and while it's not perfect, I've had good luck. A learning experience for myself, when over spined broadhead flight can be a bit off, notably flying more to the left with some of the larger fixed heads. Adjusting accordingly to get in the sweet spot fixed that, and again is a testament to everything working in harmony...

...or just call MuddyFuzzy!
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Old 09-15-2021, 09:26 AM   #34
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I can’t get crapatalk to load pictures, but here are two other build options that spined real good on the calculator(just a tick stiff).

Victory RIP 300
27”
75gr insert with 25gr collar
150gr broadhead
4 fusion x-ii 3.0 vanes(9.5grs / piece)
Lighted nocks
Total arrow weight 545gr

Easton Axis 300
27”
75gr inserts
150gr broadheads
4 fusion x-ii 2.1 vanes(5.8grs / piece)
Lighted nocks
Total arrow weight 557gr


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Old 09-15-2021, 09:27 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzurovec View Post
I shot three arrows through the chrono at Archery Country in Austin, Texas to determine that speed. I can't testify as to how accurate that unit is, but using that speed for my sight tape has been spot on.

That’s impressive to say the least.


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Old 09-15-2021, 10:08 AM   #36
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I’m shooting blackeagle carnivore 250’s @ 29”
With 100 grain brass insert and 125gr broadheads. The total weight is 554gr at 270fps.
Mathews vxr 31.5 @ 75lbs.
I shot a large cow elk last year once at 20 yards and again at 40 yards both broadside and full pass throughs using Magnus black hornets 4 blade.


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Old 09-15-2021, 10:27 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quackadikt View Post
And on the skinny shafts…

I honestly think that once you poke a hole larger than the shaft of the arrow and lubricate that shaft with blood, penetration is negligible.

Skinnys will out penetrate a .246 all day long and twice on Sundays in foam, and by a lot. They’ll also cut wind better. But lube those babies up in a hole that’s multiple times larger than the shaft, and I haven’t seen how it matters at all in the real world.


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This is what I was getting at.
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Old 09-15-2021, 10:49 AM   #38
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pm sent
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Old 09-15-2021, 11:00 AM   #39
quackadikt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckologist View Post
This is what I was getting at.
I meant to quote you for that reply. I agree 100%.
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Old 09-16-2021, 01:04 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky View Post
Maybe somebody will do a test and write a paper comparing the difference in penetration from micro diameter shaft vs a standard shaft behind a broad head in animals. Of course, both shafts need to have equal weight, foc, and speed.

Ashby has. Look at his foundation and his 12 properties. He explains this.


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