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Old 07-05-2022, 03:26 PM   #1
StickFlinger
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Default Lead Ammo Debate

So this may stir the pot, I don't know because I really don't shoot a lot unless it's my bow. I know there's been a push to remove lead from all ammo along with the gun laws the left is trying pass. However, I don't really grasp how there is opposition to swapping to steel or whatever alternative metal will replace lead. Sure there may be a price increase, but it's very well know that lead is highly toxic to humans and animals. That lead makes it's way back to you via the birds and animals you eat, or the water that you drink. This may just be liberal media blowing things out of proportion (wouldn't surprise me one bit), that's all I get out here in the Bering Sea.

So what say you gun finatics? Do you oppose getting rid of lead? If so, why?
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Old 07-05-2022, 03:34 PM   #2
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There may be other metals out there to takes its place but I've no idea what they are, honestly I don't know what could be better than lead, as far as good mushrooming properties for bullets goes and shear weight.
As far as being poisonous to humans and animals, shooting any projectile into a living organism sounds pretty poisonous to me.
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Old 07-05-2022, 03:35 PM   #3
MadHatter
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Migratory birds is the only place I could see it being a issue.
I don't think us Americans shoot enough bullets to worry about it affecting our water.
As far as animals, I haven't shot a animal with a bullet containing lead in a long time.
Personally I see no downside to eliminating it, either way it won't affect me other than price, and after the last 2 yrs I'm gonna be a old man before I worry about buying ammo again.
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Old 07-05-2022, 03:37 PM   #4
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It IS highly toxic to animals that get shot with it...and that's a good thing..
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Old 07-05-2022, 03:44 PM   #5
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The only personal experience I have seeing it is when I was younger I duck hunted public land in Anahuac, ducks out there had bbs in their gizzards occasionally. Also some delineation surveys have shown trace amounts of lead within fish populations in these marshes. Obviously this has already been addressed as duck hunting requires steel shot.

Mushrooming, are ballistic tips not the same thing but some sort of polymer instead of lead?

Yes I agree, being shot is quite toxic LOL
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Old 07-05-2022, 03:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StickFlinger View Post
The only personal experience I have seeing it is when I was younger I duck hunted public land in Anahuac, ducks out there had bbs in their gizzards occasionally. Also some delineation surveys have shown trace amounts of lead within fish populations in these marshes. Obviously this has already been addressed as duck hunting requires steel shot.

Mushrooming, are ballistic tips not the same thing but some sort of polymer instead of lead?

Yes I agree, being shot is quite toxic LOL

I would have to agree there are a few lead pellets in most living ducks down this way. LOL

I've never opened up a Ballistic Tip bullet but I believe the tip is there to drive the copper jacket open sooner(?) and there is still lead in the core for weight purposes.
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Old 07-05-2022, 03:54 PM   #7
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More liberal crybaby hype. Sky is falling!
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Old 07-05-2022, 03:54 PM   #8
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It's pretty hard to ingest enough lead to be harmful. I've casted bullets for 50 years, in a poorly ventilated shop, I've eaten game for longer than that that was shot with lead ammunition, and salvaged lead by melting all sorts of scrap. My lead levels are normal. A lot of the lead hype is BS. There are ways you can get harmful levels of lead into your system, but none of those ways involve firearms or bullets that I'm aware of. Unless, of course you get shot.
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Old 07-05-2022, 04:00 PM   #9
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There is probably 1000X more lead in the environment from lost wheel weights vs bullets. Lefty fanatics at it again...
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Old 07-05-2022, 04:03 PM   #10
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Funny how they talk about lead in bullets or shot used for hunting but both these sources pale in comparison to manufacturing caused contamination, lead in water from lead pipes, lead soldering of food containers and many more. In my opinion it's cruelty to migratory birds since the banning of lead shot more birds are wounded and die inhumanely.
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Old 07-05-2022, 04:20 PM   #11
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Funny how they talk about lead in bullets or shot used for hunting but both these sources pale in comparison to manufacturing caused contamination, lead in water from lead pipes, lead soldering of food containers and many more. In my opinion it's cruelty to migratory birds since the banning of lead shot more birds are wounded and die inhumanely.
And a lead bullet or shot can be left in flesh and the wound will heal around it, and it still won't cause lead poison. On the other hand, a steel bullet or shot, unless it is a high grade of stainless/nickel content, will rust and create a nasty infection or cyst.
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Old 07-05-2022, 04:27 PM   #12
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Lead is the most efficient (does the best job for the $) material for hunting ammunition as of right now. Yes, you can spend a lot more for mono-metal bullets, with some special designed tip to try and make it perform as well as lead, but few if any will perform better.

There is also no credible study showing that lead rifle ammunition from hunters are causing any kind of negative affects on the land or animals (outside of the obvious detriment to the target animal). Another note, I used to work at a very large gun range way back when. Multiple sporting clays courses, numerous skeet and 5-stand fields, as well as rifle and pistol ranges. It was built back in the 80's on land managed by the COE. Per the lease, we had to have testing done every handful of years (3 or 5, I don't remember the cadence) to ensure the soil and environment were not being negatively impacted. Approximately 20 years and who knows how much lead later, the tests came back WELL within the normal limits. If this land can get hammered with that much lead and still be within the limits, then surely the rest of nature can take hunters who shoot a handful of lead ammo a year.
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Old 07-05-2022, 04:35 PM   #13
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More hype to make the eco-freaks money somehow. Lead is only "harmful" if you're the kid in class eating paint chips off the wall. A few BBs isn't enough lead to hurt you. The ducks do get it in their gizzards, but short of it being highly concentrated, doesn't kill them.

Here's what lead's not toxic replacements don't do: Kill as efficiently. At high velocity and close range (the average person shooting deer 100yd away with a .30-06) expansion can be a problem with all copper bullets, though some are better than others. Tungsten shot is amazing, better than lead, but you better have a vault full of cash. Steel shot is absolute garbage compared to lead because of the lower density. Cripple more birds in order to save the animals. Makes perfect sense. Let's go ahead and ban building houses on prime animal habitat. That'd be alot more beneficial in the grand scheme of things.
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Old 07-05-2022, 05:11 PM   #14
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I agree with the increased wounding of waterfowl with steel. Especially when jdg13 is shooting.

It's something that had some merit in a few situations but was taken way to an extreme IMO. I'm talking in the waterfowl hunting world. There are and were a few locations where there is high volume shooting and those pellets lay on the bottom of ponds or in fields and for different reasons stay where they are available to be ingested. In most of the situations and places I have hunted I would doubt there is much to worry about. For sure nothing to worry about when it comes to lead in your food or water. Just as far as waterfowl picking lead shot up as grit which is supposed to be fatal. Hunters definitely wound a bunch of waterfowl with steel every year.

I don't think lead and lead core bullets for hunting will ever be a real and honest health concern. You are probably sprinkling maybe a couple to a few ounces of lead a year onto thousands of acres.

The only place I could see lead being an issue is at shooting ranges. Indoor so you don't have airborn lead particles and outdoor where you shoot into earth berms because a high volume range could deposit a pretty impressive amount of lead over the years.
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Old 07-05-2022, 05:31 PM   #15
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The lead in shotshells thing was merely a roadblock thrown up by anti-hunters and embraced by the ammo manufacturers because…..guess what, we can charge mire money ! And I’m another one with the opinion that steel shot cause more lost dead ducks than lead. I can’t say that’s from personal experience because when the law put lead out for waterfowl I quit duck hunting. It was also tried with lead weights, jigs, etc. but the fishermen raised enough hell that it didn’t happen. Only commie Kalifornia blindly followed the bunny huggers and declared no-lead zones for rifle ammo as far as I know. Could be some other states that I’m not aware of.
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Old 07-05-2022, 05:37 PM   #16
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i agree with the increased wounding of waterfowl with steel. Especially when jdg13 is shooting my cripples
fify haha
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Old 07-05-2022, 07:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StickFlinger View Post
So this may stir the pot, I don't know because I really don't shoot a lot unless it's my bow. I know there's been a push to remove lead from all ammo along with the gun laws the left is trying pass. However, I don't really grasp how there is opposition to swapping to steel or whatever alternative metal will replace lead. Sure there may be a price increase, but it's very well know that lead is highly toxic to humans and animals. That lead makes it's way back to you via the birds and animals you eat, or the water that you drink. This may just be liberal media blowing things out of proportion (wouldn't surprise me one bit), that's all I get out here in the Bering Sea.

So what say you gun finatics? Do you oppose getting rid of lead? If so, why?
I went lead free on animals I want to eat a few years ago. X ray's of animals shot with lead core bullets do not whet your appetite. Possible exception are high quality bonded lead cores. Non bonded bullets are a recipe for lead ingestion.
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Old 07-05-2022, 08:41 PM   #18
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I went lead free on animals I want to eat a few years ago. X ray's of animals shot with lead core bullets do not whet your appetite. Possible exception are high quality bonded lead cores. Non bonded bullets are a recipe for lead ingestion.
Ear hole them… unless you eat the brains.
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Old 07-05-2022, 09:07 PM   #19
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Get the lead out… unless self defense ammo.

If self defense…intention to poison a body is inherent and necessary.

Good push MrFlinger.
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Old 07-05-2022, 09:40 PM   #20
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I have been eating all types of animals that were shot with either lead bird shot, mostly lead core rifle bullets. Never caused me or any of my family any problems. We lived off of deer we killed year round for many years.

I still have a bunch of lead shot in my body, from getting shot with a 12 ga. when I was about 12 years old. Again, no problems from it. I have brought that up with doctors multiple times, their response every time, is don't worry about it, it's not going to harm you.

I have not found any copper bullets that definitely reliably expand, resulting in quick humane kills, other than head or spine shots. I do have some Leading Edge bullets, they are supposed to work in a completely different way from the older Barnes style bullets. I have not had a chance to try them out on a living critter. But I know which lead core bullets do work for my guns, I will stick with those. But I may try out those Leading Edge bullets on a critter or two at some point, just to see how they work. I am always interested to know how new things work. I definitely won't spend anymore money on Barnes bullets done that back in the 80s, then again, about 15 years ago. The newer design stuff is good for head shots. The old stuff from the 80s, is good for display purposes, unless you want to try and blow up a gun.

The liberals can scare the weak minded, I am not buying into the BS. Just another way the liberals are trying to chip away at our gun ownership. If we let the liberals win the battle with lead projectiles, and switch to copper and brass, they will eventually try and banning copper and brass projectiles.

If you personally fear lead, stay away from it, but remember, there is a whole lot of lead in a lot of places, that the liberals are mostly not trying to get rid of. The primary place they are trying to remove lead, is projectiles. All I got to say is F them.
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Old 07-05-2022, 09:47 PM   #21
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People have been shooting lead balls at their quarry since the invention of the first rifle. When have you ever heard of somebody getting lead poisoning from eating said quarry or destroying an ecosystem from shooting too many bullets? If this was the case every frontiersman would have died from lead poisoning and every pre 1900 battlefield couldn’t have been turned into farmland.
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Old 07-05-2022, 09:50 PM   #22
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People have been shooting lead balls at their quarry since the invention of the first rifle. When have you ever heard of somebody getting lead poisoning from eating said quarry or destroying an ecosystem from shooting too many bullets? If this was the case every frontiersman would have died from lead poisoning and every pre 1900 battlefield couldn’t have been turned into farmland.
I just had that thought come to mind, and came back here to add those same words. Thankyou.
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Old 07-05-2022, 09:51 PM   #23
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What is the rate of lead poisoning among humans from eating animals thst have traces of lead in their systems?
I have bigger things to worry about.
Like democrats. They are more toxic than lead.
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Old 07-06-2022, 09:16 AM   #24
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I would hope anyone on here can realize that we are all on the same side and should strongly oppose any restrictions that are tried to levy on us. We need y’all’s help even though you may be neutral on this specific issue. Rest assured, I will not be neutral on this or anything that affects hunting or fishing in any capacity even if it doesn’t directly apply to me.

If you wish to not use lead to shoot animals for consumption, by all means, have it your way now but don’t agree with the enemy to take it away from me.
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Old 07-06-2022, 11:28 AM   #25
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I would hope anyone on here can realize that we are all on the same side and should strongly oppose any restrictions that are tried to levy on us. We need y’all’s help even though you may be neutral on this specific issue. Rest assured, I will not be neutral on this or anything that affects hunting or fishing in any capacity even if it doesn’t directly apply to me.

If you wish to not use lead to shoot animals for consumption, by all means, have it your way now but don’t agree with the enemy to take it away from me.
I'm definitely on the side of if you wana shoot lead be my guest, I was just curious to some opinions. I don't typically gun hunt anyhow, but I'm not gonna stop a man for slingin lead lol.

To me it's similar to liberal pushing recycling down everyone's throat. Trace amounts of plastic show up in **** near every living organism on earth, which is spooky but not enough to hurt anyone. Their plan is to recycle plastics instead of getting rid of them, and none of them remotely understand that the majority of American plastic "recycling" is just shipping that **** on a cargo ship to china to be dumped in a landfill or the ocean. Bottom line is liberals jump on trains without knowin' who's driving or where it's goin'
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Old 07-06-2022, 11:38 AM   #26
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I like lead in shotgun shells. That's really the only thing I'm picky about. It's more costs effective than anything else out there and hits harder than steel. If it's a good bullet and I like the way it performs I don't care if it's a green bullet. Most of them I shoot ain't but I have some that are and they have killed stuff just fine.
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