Nilgai - Lighter Arrow Success

[jsko91]

Morning, TBH.

I’ve seen the (many) nilgai threads & am aware of how unbelievably tough they are. I’m familiar with the thought that heavier arrows & higher FOC will be better for penetration on these critters. With that being said, my question is this:

Has anyone here had success with lighter arrow setups?

I’m sitting just over 400gr, shooting pretty dang fast (no recent chrono speeds), at 28” and 70#. With Magnus Black Hornets, I’ve had pass through after pass through on WT, breaking ribs and rear scapulas along the way. I know shot placement is most important at the end of the day, but again, any success with lighter arrows on Nilgai?

Asking because I head to the Teniente Unit in less than a month and I’m ready to pull the trigger to have arrows built at >500gr with tougher BHs if needed.

Thanks in advance, and I hope people hunting Nilgai right now are finding success, too!! God bless y’all!

[Mitchell8]

Force is basically mass x velocity so if you can increase mass more than you loose velocity you’ll produce more force. The goal is to increase mass more of a percent than velocity drops. More force is more penetration and damage.

[enewman]

Originally Posted by Mitchell8

Force is basically mass x velocity so if you can increase mass more than you loose velocity you’ll produce more force. The goal is to increase mass more of a percent than velocity drops. More force is more penetration and damage.

F=ma
F=mv/t

So how do we increase mass without losing velocity?

To get more penetration, we would need to increase work.

Since he is shooting the same bow and the same draw length, the only way to truly increase work is to have a broadhead that will do more work with less energy. He has that already with the broadhead he is using.

Now back to what you said. He needs to increase the inertia of the arrow to help make the arrow harder to stop. we do this by increasing arrow mass.

[enewman]

To the op, FOC doesn't increase penetration. (compound bow) It increases arrow stabilization. But increasing an arrow's total weight is easily done by increasing the tip weight as long as you have the correct spine. So, don't get hung up too much on FOC. I've been there. It took me a little bit to realize I was wrong.

Now, how much weight do you need? I know a lady that kills nilgai with a 550gr from a 45lb bow.

.

[Mission408]

I've had lesser critters run off with my 400g. arrow. So I am building some 500g. now. Can't go wrong a little heavier arrow imo. Your already thinking heavier arrows and if you don't get the results you hope for you will really be kicking yourself. Good luck op

[Jon B]

Never hunted then but form what I have read, I have surmised the following:

They don't bleed real good, they live in thick country with tall grass and are heavy built.....to me this is an animal that requires a pass through to recover. What blood falls may be very hard to find.
I'm going to shoot a heavier arrow than I do for whitetail. I am also going to use a razor sharp small diameter cut on contact broadhead.

I may be way off base but these are my thoughts.

[Darkarcher159]

This will be my 2nd year hunting them with a bow. Never killed one with a bow. I have settled on a 616 grain TAW. 250 VAP SS tipped with a solid 200 grain Iron Will single bevel. I think its running about 260fps out of my V3. Best of luck to ya!!

[Mitchell8]

Originally Posted by enewman

F=ma
F=mv/t

So how do we increase mass without losing velocity?

To get more penetration, we would need to increase work.

Since he is shooting the same bow and the same draw length, the only way to truly increase work is to have a broadhead that will do more work with less energy. He has that already with the broadhead he is using.

Now back to what you said. He needs to increase the inertia of the arrow to help make the arrow harder to stop. we do this by increasing arrow mass.

Exactly. Sticking a dull knife into the side of an animal takes more force. A sharp knife takes almost no force. The issue with Nilgai is the bones and tendons needing more force to get hood penetration. Some areas will be impossible with any arrow set up. More mass definitely improves odds of deeper penetration with a very sharp broadhead.

[jsko91]

Thanks on all of the above, y’all. Much appreciated!

To revisit the original question, it looks like the answer is no… no past success dropping these beasts with lighter arrow setups. Investment time, I guess.

Weight aside, the other point brought up is around the broadhead. Sharpness also aside, thoughts on blade configuration? Nilgai seem to be the perfect storm of large bones protecting vitals & thick hide. Two blade, single bevel is great for bone breaking, but something with multiple planes opens up a bigger hole in the hide to let more blood flow out.

This leaves me thinking something like the IW solid with bleeders (which is a better version of that Black Hornet I’m shooting now). With bleeders you lose punching power… but a better hole.

Any thoughts? Hopefully this is helping someone other than just me. And if I’m successful come mid-December, y’all will hear about it!

[jsko91]

Disregard, IW has single bevels with bleeders!

Originally Posted by jsko91

Thanks on all of the above, y’all. Much appreciated!

To revisit the original question, it looks like the answer is no… no past success dropping these beasts with lighter arrow setups. Investment time, I guess.

Weight aside, the other point brought up is around the broadhead. Sharpness also aside, thoughts on blade configuration? Nilgai seem to be the perfect storm of large bones protecting vitals & thick hide. Two blade, single bevel is great for bone breaking, but something with multiple planes opens up a bigger hole in the hide to let more blood flow out.

This leaves me thinking something like the IW solid with bleeders (which is a better version of that Black Hornet I’m shooting now). With bleeders you lose punching power… but a better hole.

Any thoughts? Hopefully this is helping someone other than just me. And if I’m successful come mid-December, y’all will hear about it!

[Kirby86]

Last year I shot 2 cows with victory vaps weighing 550fps going right at 290. Slightly quartering away shots, 25 and 35 yds.

Grim reaper fatal steels didn’t do well. I shot through a spike lengthwise from ham, out the neck at 50yds with the exact same setup.

Nilgai are just different.

This year I’m running a 590gr arrow with either iron will 125 solids or the wides. I’m leaning heavily towards the solids. Speeds in the upper 270s, but I’m also shooting 80lbs now. 31.5 draw length.

This is just me, but I’d up your arrow weight if possible, but it also depends on some other factors.

What’s your draw length and what sight are you running?

It’s easy to say “yeah you need a heavier arrow” but if you’re shooting a single pin, things can get screwy under 230fps. Anything under 290 fixed blade wide tunes a heck of a lot easier as well.

[ccampff]

One other question to consider is trajectory vs penetration. If you know the exact distance to the animal, and the animal doesn't move/duck the string like a whitetail, then you should be able to shoot as heavy an arrow as you would like. No doubt the heavier the arrow, the better it penetrates. If animal distance is unknown or the animal moves after you range, then trajectory becomes a problem. A 450gr shoots much flatter than a 700gr and there is much more margin for error on yardage. Penetration is a non factor if you don't actually hit the animal. That being said, I tend to stay in the 475-525 range for everything I hunt with good success. Killed an elk this year on a double lung that blew through and buried in a log so deep I couldn't get the bh out. That being said, I have never hunted nilgai and from what I hear they are even tougher than an elk.

[lazuras_dc]

As guys have said before heavier wouldn’t hurt if you have the spine for it, would be easy to tune and sight a new heavier broadhead. Not sure it’s worth building a whole new arrow?

I had a dbl lung pass thru on an elk at 50yards with 430gr pulling 70lbs. I know people will go heavier incase the shot isn’t ideal, but If you’re hitting the shoulder I’m not sure how much 80 gr will help with penetration. As with all things shot placement matters most. Goodluck!

[jsko91]

Again, thanks y’all!!

I’m shooting 28” Victory RIP TKO Gamer 300s @ a 28” draw and 70#. With a 100gr BH the total weight has been ~420gr with the standard 50gr outsert and 2” vanes.

If I wanted to weight up, my spine at 300 would be okay if I bumped the BH up to 150gr and used a 100gr insert. Total arrow weight would then be up 100gr to ~520gr. That with a solid BH would make me feel better headed south in a month on this tag.

Never done my own inserts. Assuming these would work on my .204 shaft, cut them to the right weight. I ‘d need to factor the collar in, too.

https://extremeoutfitters.com/shop/a...MaAv2EEALw_wcB

Thanks, guys. This went from wondering if light setups have ever gotten the job done on nilgai to helping me build a new arrow. Lol

[jsko91]

Well. Pulled the trigger… built out 550gr+ arrows to see if I can get it done on this nilgai tag next month. Thanks again for the help, y’all.

[lazuras_dc]

What’re specs on the new arrow ?
I’m a shade under 500 gr arrow using a 150gr head. But shooting like 263fps.

With a 28”/70lbs draw I had a hard time getting over 500 gr unless I respined to a 250 and went with a heavier insert. But then im scared I’d be getting to slow.

[79F250]

I’m shooting 653gr 63ish lbs 30” draw 200gr 2” grizzly stik silver flames and somewhere around 230-240fps. Shot a nilgai cow in shoulder thinking I had plenty to get through boy was I wrong. Shot was a little higher than I wanted but when it knocked her straight on her arse I figured she was dead. But she got up and took off running with zero limp and no blood. I either hit a solid leg bone or they are stupid tuff.

My broadhead wasn’t single bevel but not sure if that would even matter with these animals.

I will say this I personally will not shoot at another nilgai with a bow unless it’s quartering away and I can slip it in behind the shoulder.

After that shot I spent the rest of my weekend researching shot placement on them with a bow.
Number one answer was low and tight. Even a double lunged nilgai can run quite a ways from what I read. Highly oxygenated blood on top of thick skin clotting the hole makes a long difficult tracking job.

I’m by no means an expert on nilgai, just sharing a little bit of info I’ve read.
There’s a thread on here titled “Nilgai 2022!” Check it out tons of great info

[jsko91]

@lazuras_dc - I went with RIP TKO Elite 300s with 150gr single bevels from Iron Will with bleeders. I also got IW’s 25gr collars and their 100gr inserts. I’ll put 2.75” vanes on it, left helical to match the bevel.

@79F250, crazy story, and I’ve heard similar more than once. But then I also know people who have knocked em down with less. Aside from shot placement being key, it seems highly variable with these tanks, whether they’ll drop or not. I’ve heard about the viral placement, bones, and hide, but hadn’t heard about the oxygenated blood. Good to know. If I see one, I just hope I can do my part and believe the new equipment will get it done! I’ve been keeping up with that Nilgai 2022 thread - definitely good stuff!

[lazuras_dc]

How do the Iron Will HIT inserts and collars compare to say a black eagle half out? Half out is 52 gr so is there any increase in strength or is it just getting more mass up front? (looks like 125gr on just the insert and collar vs. a 52gr halfout)

[Loneaggie]

Originally Posted by lazuras_dc

How do the Iron Will HIT inserts and collars compare to say a black eagle half out? Half out is 52 gr so is there any increase in strength or is it just getting more mass up front? (looks like 125gr on just the insert and collar vs. a 52gr halfout)

The insert and collar are notably more durable than a half out. A half-out provides a long lever that on impact can split out the side of a carbon shaft. The collar re-inforces this critical interface. For outright toughness, collars are an upgrade for any diameter arrow IMO.

[Kirby86]

Originally Posted by Loneaggie

The insert and collar are notably more durable than a half out. A half-out provides a long lever that on impact can split out the side of a carbon shaft. The collar re-inforces this critical interface. For outright toughness, collars are an upgrade for any diameter arrow IMO.

+1.

And micro diameters (.165/.166) are in the same boat as a half out as well. I have victory vaps with the 95gr outserts and I’ve shot the 50gr shok tl.

I was meticulous about getting them to spin true and even used JB weld to make sure I had enough set time to spin test them.

In the future I’ll be going back to .204 shafts with some sort of collar and a hit insert.

[txtrophy85]

Shot this in September. 433 grain arrow 100 grain Kudu point traveling at 280 fps. Full pass thru at 21 yards. Stood there walking in circles so I shot it again…full pass thru the second time.

Use a good cut on contact head and hit them quartering away as their vitals are between their shoulder blades not behind the shoulder.

You don’t need a carbon log with a shovel spade single bevel head to kill big animals.