Non successful booked hunt payment question

[deerslayer64d]

I have never been on a booked hunt before so I’m not sure of the answer to my question. I booked a three day hunt for my son for a 150 class or better deer and left a $500 deposit to hold the hunt , this morning will be his last chance to get it done but my hopes are not high as we haven’t seen anything near that class of deer yet , he outfitter had sent me pics of two target deer prior to the hunt , one of the deer had been shot two days before we arrived and the second deer he decided wasn’t old enough the first morning when it showed up, the rut is on and the deer are moving all day yet the Guide slept from 10:30 am until around 3:00 pm instead of hurting with my son trying to find a suitable deer , this is a BIG cattle ranch in erath co that in my opinion promotes good opportunity for a spot in stock hunting with deep draws that are thick with brush and lots of open area above the draws, I have provided all meals for everyone, myself my son the guide and his Freind, Breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and prepared all meals as well as cleaned up after all meals , dishes , cooking utensils, so to my question, if they are not successful this morning what do I owe this man ? I know the deposit is non refundable and I’m fine with that but do I give him more money for his time / fuel/ feed? I just want to do what’s right and like I said before I’ve never had to book a hunt before so I’m asking.

[Johnny44]

How old is the son ?

10-3 is peak rutting if its a sunny day.

[deerslayer64d]

20 and the guide is 24, my son has definitely spent more time in camp and then out in the field pursuing the structured class deer he is hunting. The guy wants to be with my son to make sure the wrong deer is not shot,

[Redlegwar]

Was there a set fee or price for kill after deposit was paid?


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[Huntingfool]

sounds like a pretty lazy guide IMO - give him another $100 and move on and mark it up to a bad experience - it happens unfortunatley

[deerslayer64d]

$3,750,00

[Johnny44]

If I didn’t have to pay more I wouldn’t since your son is of fighting age. If the boy was younger I would’ve avoided a confrontation.

Dude wouldn’t have slept with me there.

[deerslayer64d]

Originally Posted by Johnny44

If I didn’t have to pay more I wouldn’t since your son is of fighting age. If the boy was younger I would’ve avoided a confrontation.

Dude wouldn’t have slept with me there.

I agree with this but have always been told not to guide the guide, that being said here it is 6:12 am and the guy is still sleeping

[Headhunter]

Wake his *** up

[Bassdeer]

Give him nothing but advice, Tell him he should look for a new line of work because a guide thing ain't doing it. Sounds like you did most of the work, he should be tipping you.

You can always do this, when your ready to leave pull out a stack of $100 and start counting through them in front of the guide then fold them up and put in your pocket get in your truck and leave.

[Highbridge hand]

pack your bags & go.

[hogslayer78]

Originally Posted by Headhunter

Wake his *** up

This ^^^ then explain to him why you are not satisfied. Pack up and move along. I would be po'ed if my guide was still asleep at 630 am! They should have been in the blind an hour ago...

[Lynn21]

Guide is way too young. Your food, you cook and clean, you’ve done plenty. Imo, I wouldn’t pay more than 50%.

[RiverRat1]

Need more details on hunt structure.

If you paid $500 for this hunt that included lodging plus guide for 3 days THEN a kill fee only if you shoot something that's not a bad deal since you're also staying there.

The guide may have given up? Was he drinking last night? Did he say what time you should be in blinds this morning? He sounds lazy and doesn't deserve a tip but again, more info would help.

Now if he wants $3,750 for this hunt.... He!! to the no! He should have let him shoot the buck that came out. What does age have anything to do with it when they're selling a buck?

[Tx.Fisher]

Just be honest and tell him you were really disappointed in this experience. Tell him everything you told us.

Tip him if you’re feeling generous, then leave.

[deerslayer64d]

I woke him and they are gone now saying they are not blind hunting but instead spot n stalk , I told him that what they should have been doing all along after he said the first day that deer weren’t really coming to blinds and feeders the day we arrived. I don’t have a lot of hope for this last hunt but want my son to have every chance possible to take a 150 class or better, he is willing to put in the work hiking miles if needed to make it happen and is a good kid and deserves it.

That being said ( I know it’s late in the season) but if anyone has any hunts available for this class deer on a weekend hunt please contact me! I have reached out to Brett Holden and he is booked up but may have some short notice cancellation later in the season, the search continues.

[lanceodom]

Not sure we have enough info. Hunting is hunting. If the structure was $500 deposit and the rest for the hunt, well you got your hunt. Target pics are just that. Not a promise, not a guarantee, unless he told you that. You owe him, technically. However, sounds pretty sloppy and lackadaisical so I would have a discussion with him about exactly what you told us and see if he budges. I would not tip him.

[dbaio1]

Originally Posted by deerslayer64d

I agree with this but have always been told not to guide the guide, that being said here it is 6:12 am and the guy is still sleeping

6 am still sleeping qnd last day. I would pack up and leave a d not give another dime.

[Quackerbox]

I would have probably mentioned something yesterday. Today "guide" is gonna is throw the blame back when asked about how the hunt went

That said, leaving without some form of payment isn't going to sit well with whoever is actually running the show

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[BTLowry]

If I was paying 3750 to kill a deer I would be hunting every legal minute I had

Sounds to me like the size deer you agreed to was not in adequate supply on the place you are hunting
Pics of 2 "shooters" and you are not the only hunter

I would pay the $500 and that would be all.
If the guide busted tail and I still came up empty I would tip on effort.
Sleeping in gets no tip from me

[deerslayer64d]

Originally Posted by RiverRat1

Need more details on hunt structure.

If you paid $500 for this hunt that included lodging plus guide for 3 days THEN a kill fee only if you shoot something that's not a bad deal since you're also staying there.

The guide may have given up? Was he drinking last night? Did he say what time you should be in blinds this morning? He sounds lazy and doesn't deserve a tip but again, more info would help.

Now if he wants $3,750 for this hunt.... He!! to the no! He should have let him shoot the buck that came out. What does age have anything to do with it when they're selling a buck?

The hunt was booked weeks ago with a $500 deposit to secure the dates to be hunted, The phone discussion went as follows that a shot fired and opportunity provided for class structured dear and considered payment in full due. Class structure Deer opportunity has not been provided as of yet other than the one Deer we were provided pictures of that is still living that he decided was not old enough to harvest even though the deer is 5 1/2 years old in my opinion. Lodging was included but we had to provide our own food ( not a problem) but I took it upon myself to provide all the meals for everyone that would be here including steak dinners at night , full breakfast in the morning and cold sandwiches at lunch plus like I said did all the cleaning and cooking required for preparation of meals, when we got here the sink was full of dirty dishes trashcan was full of trash I basically cleaned his entire kitchen for him before I could start preparing meals. The more I respond in this thread I believe I have answered my own question. He is not getting another dime for me unless they are successful this morning and I will explain to him all the reasons why.

[deerslayer64d]

Originally Posted by BTLowry

If I was paying 3750 to kill a deer I would be hunting every legal minute I had

Sounds to me like the size deer you agreed to was not in adequate supply on the place you are hunting
Pics of 2 "shooters" and you are not the only hunter

I would pay the $500 and that would be all.
If the guide busted tail and I still came up empty I would tip on effort.
Sleeping in gets no tip from me

We are the only two hunters in camp , I opted not to hunt after the first evening so that all efforts could be contributed to my sons success,

[solocam_aggie]

Yeah I would be hot. Im definitely not giving a tip. I would probably pay some of whatever is left to pay, but I would deduct all of that time spent in camp when he should have been hunting.

After seeing your update, if not provided an opportunity for a kill Im leaving without paying a single penny more.

[skinsfan]

Did you look into the outfit prior to booking?? I would be frustrated.

[Fishndude]

$3750 x zero effort = zero

[RR 314]

I feel a payment in full day coming on strong. Hope he kills one and everyone is happy with the deer! The rest sounds like a cluster.

[AntlerCollector]

I would already be one the phone with the owner of the place. I’d be surprised if you only have to pay the $500 and no more. The guide is just hired help. Sounds like he’s not very experienced. You definitely got a bad deal.

Please tell us the name of the place. I would sure like to avoid the same situation you’re in if possible.


I’ve hunted places before and had to pay even though there was no kill opportunities. It happens, but i expect my guide to work as hard as me.


The fact that you provided and cooked all the meals for everyone is irrelevant. The place should have been cleaned before y’all arrived though.






.

[deerslayer64d]

Originally Posted by RR 314

I feel a payment in full day coming on strong. Hope he kills one and everyone is happy with the deer! The rest sounds like a cluster.

This is my hope as well as I’ve told the guide from the first phone conversation that this was all about my son ! I take partial blame for not doing due diligence and my homework prior to booking the hunt.

[BarW]

Guide that lazy doesn't get anything from me.

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[deerslayer64d]

Originally Posted by AntlerCollector

I would already be one the phone with the owner of the place. I’d be surprised is you only have to pay the $500 and no more. The guide is just hired help. Sounds like he’s not very experienced. You definitely got a bad deal.

Please tell us the name of the place. I would sure like to avoid the same situation you’re in if possible

The guide is the owner or son of owner, I’ve talked to the father in the evenings when he stops by to see his son . I’m not bashing this place as there are deer and if someone wanted a “ meat “ MLD hunt tags could easily be filled as we have seen a lot of older 8’s . I will wait to mention any names until I see how this morning plays out , I get it it’s hunting and not a zoo , my complaint this far is lacking of efforts put in to make it a successful hunt.

[TeamAmerica]

Hope your son has a successful day! Sorry to hear about the circumstances. I would consider something for his time even if only $15 or $20 an hour he has spent actually hunting.

[SaintBlaise]

Originally Posted by deerslayer64d

This is my hope as well as I’ve told the guide from the first phone conversation that this was all about my son ! I take partial blame for not doing due diligence and my homework prior to booking the hunt.

PM sent

[AntlerCollector]

Originally Posted by deerslayer64d

The guide is the owner or son of owner, I’ve talked to the father in the evenings when he stops by to see his son . I’m not bashing this place as there are deer and if someone wanted a “ meat “ MLD hunt tags could easily be filled as we have seen a lot of older 8’s . I will wait to mention any names until I see how this morning plays out , I get it it’s hunting and not a zoo , my complaint this far is lacking of efforts put in to make it a successful hunt.

Yep, there are no guarantees in hunting. The fact that it’s the son of the owner says a lot. A good guide will do everything he can to make his hunter successful. His final pay with tips depends on it. The son of the owner was probably told he had to take y’all out there. A good guide can make all the difference on a place.


I hope your son ends up being successful. IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY MAY HAVE OVER PROMISED THE 150” BUCK. If they only had two pics with one already dead and the other “not old enough” then I think this hunt may have been doomed from the start. All the 130” 8 pointers running around won’t get you what you told them you were after.

[Graysonhogs]

Originally Posted by Lynn21

Guide is way too young. Your food, you cook and clean, you’ve done plenty. Imo, I wouldn’t pay more than 50%.

Young's got nothing to do with it. I'd send my 20 year old to guide any of you.
Lazy is not age exclusive. I've seen plenty of baloney azz 50 year olds.

[AntlerCollector]

Originally Posted by Graysonhogs

Young's got nothing to do with it. I'd send my 20 year old to guide any of you.
Lazy is not age exclusive. I've seen plenty of baloney azz 50 year olds.

Agreed. Nothing wrong with the guide being 20.

Most “guides” on game ranches just give you a ride back and forth to the blind and skin your deer if you kill one.


I’m glad to hear they are at least trying a spot and stalk today. That’s usually a low percentage hunt though. A makeshift natural blind set up near game trails would probably be better. Then do some rattling. Unfortunately there’s no time left in this hunt.

[Lynn21]

Disagree big time- I ain’t paying that kind of money for a 20 year old or a 24 year old that ain’t seen a tenth of the deer that I’ve seen or killed. That’s just me.

[trophy8]

$500 deposit and then $3250 kill fee if successful was the agreed upon deal? And you provide meals? For a free range 150 or high fence?

[Death from Above]

Originally Posted by Fishndude

$3750 x zero effort = zero

This is the math the "guide" needs to be taught...

[CEO]

Were there any daily guide fees? Still a little confused on the pay structure.

[Graysonhogs]

Originally Posted by Lynn21

Disagree big time- I ain’t paying that kind of money for a 20 year old or a 24 year old that ain’t seen a tenth of the deer that I’ve seen or killed. That’s just me.

Doesn't sound like you need a guide. It doesn't matter how many they've seen or killed. What matters is that they've put in the work on THEIR properties. Agree to disagree.

[Jon Stewart]

This is the bad part about "pay to play". Someone is not going to be happy.
Sounds like the young guide didn't do his job. Pay him accordingly.

I took my son to Quebec on a archery bear hunt as a graduation from college gift. We were guaranteed to have a shot at a bear or no pay. My son shot one with his bow and I saw one but it was out there about 40 yards which is out of my longbow range. I questioned the guide about not getting a shot and he responded by saying, "could you have shot it with a gun". He made his point and I paid. Never again did I or will I go on a pay to play hunt. No animal is worth the costs.

[trophy8]

Originally Posted by Lynn21

Disagree big time- I ain’t paying that kind of money for a 20 year old or a 24 year old that ain’t seen a tenth of the deer that I’ve seen or killed. That’s just me.

I wouldn’t guide you for $5k so there’s that.

[Quackerbox]

Originally Posted by Graysonhogs

Doesn't sound like you need a guide. It doesn't matter how many they've seen or killed. What matters is that they've put in the work on THEIR properties. Agree to disagree.

The words tooketh from me

Originally Posted by trophy8

I wouldn’t guide you for $5k so there’s that.

Lol
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[RiverRat1]

deerslayer64d - Did you get anything in writing or was it just one phone call?

Are you sure you owe no more money since no opportunity was provided? Or is that the point of this thread, to try and convince yourself it's ok to leave without paying?

What's the ranch name/website? That may clear things up.

[AntlerCollector]

Originally Posted by trophy8

I wouldn’t guide you for $5k so there’s that.

[Lynn21]

Hey trophy8- sorry I hurt your little feelings. Dont get your panties in a wad. Again, you added your crap to the list of crap on this forum. As always, somebody gives their opinion on something like I did, and here you come with the bashing. You Probly couldn’t guide a 10 year old, much less me for 5g.

[shiner78]

Originally Posted by Fishndude

$3750 x zero effort = zero

This.

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[rtp]

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[deerslayer64d]

Originally Posted by RiverRat1

deerslayer64d - Did you get anything in writing or was it just one phone call?

Are you sure you owe no more money since no opportunity was provided? Or is that the point of this thread, to try and convince yourself it's ok to leave without paying?

What's the ranch name/website? That may clear things up.

I apologize if I wasn’t clear. My question was if I’m Morley obligated to pay him a tip above the $500 deposit already paid? As of this moment no opportunity has been presented at a 150 or better class deer therefore the $3750 kill fee does not apply. My gut tells me I owe nothing more but I am wired a bit different than most and just want to do what’s right

[AntlerCollector]

Originally Posted by deerslayer64d

I apologize if I wasn’t clear. My question was if I’m Morley obligated to pay him a tip above the $500 deposit already paid? As of this moment no opportunity has been presented at a 150 or better class deer therefore the $3750 kill fee does not apply. My gut tells me I owe nothing more but I am wired a bit different than most and just want to do what’s right

Thanks for clearing that up. Some places you pay in full regardless. At least you’re only out $500. Imo you owe nothing. They wasted your weekend if you don’t have a single opportunity at a deer you went there for.

If you feel the guide deserves something after today then pay what you think is right and move on.