ATF ruling on receivers and parts kits

[trophy8]

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regula...ceiver/summary


And we STILL have folks on here wanting more gun control. This is what you get when you give them an inch.

[bubba joe]

so, what does it mean? decipher their trickery for me....

[hog_down]

Someone want to decipher that for me?

[npe001]

The ATF does not make laws.. Null and Void

[DirtyDave]

This is mostly about what's commonly known as "80 percent" receivers. Basically changing their stance to say "partially complete" is now considered a frame or receiver. Where before it was not considered a receiver until it is 100% complete and functional.

Definition of a “frame or receiver” includes a partially complete, disassembled, or nonfunctional frame or receiver that has reached a stage in manufacture where it may quickly and easily (“readily”) be made to function as a “frame or receiver”

They are also going after the "Solvent Trap" parts and kits. They just keep infringing like it's their job...

[DirtyDave]

Originally Posted by npe001

The ATF does not make laws.. Null and Void

Except for the part where they don't care what you think. They make these determinations and then go after businesses and individuals all the time. Constitution means nothing to Unconstitutional Agencies.

[Drycreek3189]

Originally Posted by npe001

The ATF does not make laws.. Null and Void

Tell that to the people who have had their gun safes torched, their homes ransacked, and their lives turned upside down. They are a law enforcement org and they will put your azz in the stout house. Sheesh !

[mmoses]

Originally Posted by DirtyDave

This is mostly about what's commonly known as "80 percent" receivers. Basically changing their stance to say "partially complete" is now considered a frame or receiver. Where before it was not considered a receiver until it is 100% complete and functional.

Definition of a “frame or receiver” includes a partially complete, disassembled, or nonfunctional frame or receiver that has reached a stage in manufacture where it may quickly and easily (“readily”) be made to function as a “frame or receiver”

They are also going after the "Solvent Trap" parts and kits. They just keep infringing like it's their job...

So at what point is a block of aluminum/plastic considered a firearm?

[jomw10]

I think that is the issue. The law is vague, so the ATF gets to make a determination. They are changing their definition, unfortunately it's the law until a judge, appeals court says otherwise.

[gatorgrizz27]

Originally Posted by mmoses

So at what point is a block of aluminum/plastic considered a firearm?

At one point they were claiming that if it took less than 8 hours in a machine shop to finish it was “readily convertible.”

https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/...ink/5-2451323/

One manufacturer stated their billet lowers took ~ 5 minutes from a solid block to machine.

Never mind the fact that I haven’t seen a single crime being committed with a home built 80% firearm. The gang crime “ghost guns” are all factory produced with ground off serial numbers.

Most of the mass shooters have bought their hardware legally from vendors that ran background checks, and SHOULD have come up as prohibited persons except the government failed to transfer the info fro one agency to another, so it wasn’t found.

They want you to believe these guys couldn’t get firearms legally so they are building their own to commit crimes, but that’s not the case.

[Quackerbox]

Originally Posted by gatorgrizz27

At one point they were claiming that if it took less than 8 hours in a machine shop to finish it was “readily convertible.”

https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/...ink/5-2451323/

One manufacturer stated their billet lowers took ~ 5 minutes from a solid block to machine.

Never mind the fact that I haven’t seen a single crime being committed with a home built 80% firearm. The gang crime “ghost guns” are all factory produced with ground off serial numbers.

Most of the mass shooters have bought their hardware legally from vendors that ran background checks, and SHOULD have come up as prohibited persons except the government failed to transfer the info fro one agency to another, so it wasn’t found.

They want you to believe these guys couldn’t get firearms legally so they are building their own to commit crimes, but that’s not the case.

Lol

I can show you a shizz ton of crimes with ghost guns. I've seen more in the last year than I've seen in 10. In fact I've seen more 80% kits than guns with missing serial numbers.

Non serialized suppressors mounted to non serialized ARs on a murder, ghost glocks with switches on PO involved shootings etc


Now, don't belive for one minute that I think these crooks are committing a crime with a gun they built. And they're too lazy to file off a serial number. But someone is putting them together

These idiots will literally have 9mm ammo in 40 mags sometimes so I find it hard to believe he could mount a block of plastic in a jig much less assemble one

The scary part is the amount of crime guns I personaly come across that aren't listed as stolen. People aren't keeping track of serial numbers or simply failing to call back and have it entered

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Texas Grown]

Originally Posted by Quackerbox

Lol

I can show you a shizz ton of crimes with ghost guns. I've seen more in the last year than I've seen in 10. In fact I've seen more 80% kits than guns with missing serial numbers.

Non serialized suppressors mounted to non serialized ARs on a murder, ghost glocks with switches on PO involved shootings etc


Now, don't belive for one minute that I think these crooks are committing a crime with a gun they built. And they're too lazy to file off a serial number. But someone is putting them together

These idiots will literally have 9mm ammo in 40 mags sometimes so I find it hard to believe he could mount a block of plastic in a jig much less assemble one

The scary part is the amount of crime guns I personaly come across that aren't listed as stolen. People aren't keeping track of serial numbers or simply failing to call back and have it entered

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

That right there is a shame! How can someone ever expect to have one returned, if recovered?

[justletmein]

Originally Posted by Quackerbox

Lol

I can show you a shizz ton of crimes with ghost guns. I've seen more in the last year than I've seen in 10. In fact I've seen more 80% kits than guns with missing serial numbers.

Non serialized suppressors mounted to non serialized ARs on a murder, ghost glocks with switches on PO involved shootings etc


Now, don't belive for one minute that I think these crooks are committing a crime with a gun they built. And they're too lazy to file off a serial number. But someone is putting them together

These idiots will literally have 9mm ammo in 40 mags sometimes so I find it hard to believe he could mount a block of plastic in a jig much less assemble one

The scary part is the amount of crime guns I personaly come across that aren't listed as stolen. People aren't keeping track of serial numbers or simply failing to call back and have it entered

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

That's a **** shame man, and scary too. We're out there with our single stack 7 round 9mm pea shooters and those are the perps we're planning to defend against.

Originally Posted by Texas Grown

That right there is a shame! How can someone ever expect to have one returned, if recovered?

They only care about getting their money back and insurance pays for that. Look at all the guys on the forum who've had handguns stolen from their vehicles and still continue to just leave them in there 24/7.

[BowCrazy]

Originally Posted by Texas Grown

That right there is a shame! How can someone ever expect to have one returned, if recovered?

Had a pistol stolen from my truck 3 years ago and reported it. Got a call from the Sheriffs Office about a year later and they were wanting to return it to me. They found it in Texarkana after someone commented a robbery with it.

[tvc184]

Originally Posted by Quackerbox

Lol

I can show you a shizz ton of crimes with ghost guns. I've seen more in the last year than I've seen in 10. In fact I've seen more 80% kits than guns with missing serial numbers.

Non serialized suppressors mounted to non serialized ARs on a murder, ghost glocks with switches on PO involved shootings etc


Now, don't belive for one minute that I think these crooks are committing a crime with a gun they built. And they're too lazy to file off a serial number. But someone is putting them together

These idiots will literally have 9mm ammo in 40 mags sometimes so I find it hard to believe he could mount a block of plastic in a jig much less assemble one

The scary part is the amount of crime guns I personaly come across that aren't listed as stolen. People aren't keeping track of serial numbers or simply failing to call back and have it entered

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

I hate it when almost every day we recover guns that we are about 98% sure are stolen but no record.

[Quackerbox]

Originally Posted by tvc184

I hate it when almost every day we recover guns that we are about 98% sure are stolen but no record.

Same here.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[tvc184]

Originally Posted by npe001

The ATF does not make laws.. Null and Void

They don’t make laws but Congress has given them authority to make rules that carry the weight of law.

[Mike D]

Originally Posted by tvc184

I hate it when almost every day we recover guns that we are about 98% sure are stolen but no record.

Well the agency I’m currently dealing with trying to get one back that was stolen from my son’s truck isn’t making it easy.

I’ve been round and round with 2 agencies that just keep pointing the finger back at each other with no clear direction in what to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[donpablo]

Originally Posted by tvc184

I hate it when almost every day we recover guns that we are about 98% sure are stolen but no record.

I got some guns stolen that I never reported. And dang it, I don’t recall what the serial numbers were. What serial numbers do you have? Maybe those are mine.

[tvc184]

Originally Posted by donpablo

I got some guns stolen that I never reported. And dang it, I don’t recall what the serial numbers were. What serial numbers do you have? Maybe those are mine.

Hundreds……

[Quackerbox]

Originally Posted by donpablo

I got some guns stolen that I never reported. And dang it, I don’t recall what the serial numbers were. What serial numbers do you have? Maybe those are mine.

Is one an Eddie Jimenea custom colt .38 super???

Cause I've held one of his race guns that was missing the optic that was collected on a murder

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Elliot Bennett]

Local laws dont matter. **** your gun laws and **** anyone enforcing them

“Shall not be infringed on”.
Gun laws are an “infringement”
definition: the action of limiting or undermining something. “Limiting” who can have a firearm and where,when by directly “undermining” the 2nd amendment.

1st part “a well regulated Militia” a Militia was described as “able bodied men willing and able to take up arms if they should need to in order to secure and maintain a free state”.

The 2nd amendment was put in place to prevent (government) over reach from (infringing) on our (rights).
This means police,military or reserves do NOT classify as “militia” as some argue becuase they are a “government” entity.
Time for case law.
Miranda v arizona “where rights secured by the constitution are involved, there can be no ruling or legislation which would abrogate them”.

South carolina v united states " the constitution is a written instrument,as such its meaning does not alter. That which it ment when it was adopted,it means now".

Marbury v madison “a citizen can refuse to follow a law that violates right that are constitutionally protected”.

Nysrpa v bruen 2022 " the right to keep and bear arms includes bearing arms for personal protection ourside of the home, current and future laws would be required to meet historical tradition"

Mcdonald v city of chicago 2010 “the 2nd amendment is fundamental for self defense and applies to the states under the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment”

District of Columbia v Heller “The right to keep and bear arms is infact an individual right, and no active militia participation is necessary to excercise that right.”

If you are pro 2nd amendment you are pro 2nd amendment for everyone.
if you are not then you are not pro 2nd amendment, you’re pro 2nd amendment to those you approve of.
All these gun laws violate the constitution period and people need to stand up to this.
Absolutely every person in the United states has an equal right to keep and bear arms.
It does not matter what some state law says or city law says it does not matter your background.
your are a “person” and a “citizen.”
All state and city laws are bound by the constitution and if they are not they do not have to be followed as they are tyranical in nature.
Every single gun law lon the books is illegal. Nics background check is illegal,switch bans,magazine bans,bumpstock bans,assault weapons bans are all illegal.
Every gun law back to 1934 legally has to go.

1939 miller v. united states military and militia style weapons are protected under the 2nd amendment
solvent trap is legal
https://rougharms.com/blogs/news/7-t...ent-traps-2022

[Lungbustr]

Shall not be infringed. Seems pretty clear to me.

[RifleBowPistol]

Originally Posted by Elliot Bennett

Local laws dont matter. **** your gun laws and **** anyone enforcing them

“Shall not be infringed on”.
Gun laws are an “infringement”
definition: the action of limiting or undermining something. “Limiting” who can have a firearm and where,when by directly “undermining” the 2nd amendment.

1st part “a well regulated Militia” a Militia was described as “able bodied men willing and able to take up arms if they should need to in order to secure and maintain a free state”.

The 2nd amendment was put in place to prevent (government) over reach from (infringing) on our (rights).
This means police,military or reserves do NOT classify as “militia” as some argue becuase they are a “government” entity.
Time for case law.
Miranda v arizona “where rights secured by the constitution are involved, there can be no ruling or legislation which would abrogate them”.

South carolina v united states " the constitution is a written instrument,as such its meaning does not alter. That which it ment when it was adopted,it means now".

Marbury v madison “a citizen can refuse to follow a law that violates right that are constitutionally protected”.

Nysrpa v bruen 2022 " the right to keep and bear arms includes bearing arms for personal protection ourside of the home, current and future laws would be required to meet historical tradition"

Mcdonald v city of chicago 2010 “the 2nd amendment is fundamental for self defense and applies to the states under the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment”

District of Columbia v Heller “The right to keep and bear arms is infact an individual right, and no active militia participation is necessary to excercise that right.”

If you are pro 2nd amendment you are pro 2nd amendment for everyone.
if you are not then you are not pro 2nd amendment, you’re pro 2nd amendment to those you approve of.
All these gun laws violate the constitution period and people need to stand up to this.
Absolutely every person in the United states has an equal right to keep and bear arms.
It does not matter what some state law says or city law says it does not matter your background.
your are a “person” and a “citizen.”
All state and city laws are bound by the constitution and if they are not they do not have to be followed as they are tyranical in nature.
Every single gun law lon the books is illegal. Nics background check is illegal,switch bans,magazine bans,bumpstock bans,assault weapons bans are all illegal.
Every gun law back to 1934 legally has to go.

1939 miller v. united states military and militia style weapons are protected under the 2nd amendment
solvent trap is legal
https://rougharms.com/blogs/news/7-t...ent-traps-2022

If only our idiot government could understand our constitution, that would be nice, but we have been slowly letting them make laws and then most people are abiding by them. That's what they want everyone to do. Follow the laws they make up, whether they constitutional or not.

[imyomama]

The ATF is nothing but a politicized branch of the government using their weight to unconstitutionally take people's rights away without due process.

they are just as corrupt as biden's FBI.

[ultrastealth]

ATF is making it up as they go. Spoiler alert: they are going to try to reclassify AR's and AK's as machine guns under the NFA.

[Big_gun]

Originally Posted by Texas Grown

That right there is a shame! How can someone ever expect to have one returned, if recovered?

I had a pistol stolen along with the rest of my guns while we were out of town, couple years go by and a detective in Minnesota called and told me they found it as part of a crime. I asked if they could ship to a local FFL and they declined and wanted me to fly up there to pick it up in person. I said have it destroyed as the plane tickets were way more then the gun was worth.

Not sure I would want one back after it was potentially used in a crime either.

[tvc184]

Originally Posted by Elliot Bennett

Local laws dont matter. **** your gun laws and **** anyone enforcing them

“Shall not be infringed on”.
Gun laws are an “infringement”
definition: the action of limiting or undermining something. “Limiting” who can have a firearm and where,when by directly “undermining” the 2nd amendment.

1st part “a well regulated Militia” a Militia was described as “able bodied men willing and able to take up arms if they should need to in order to secure and maintain a free state”.

The 2nd amendment was put in place to prevent (government) over reach from (infringing) on our (rights).
This means police,military or reserves do NOT classify as “militia” as some argue becuase they are a “government” entity.
Time for case law.
Miranda v arizona “where rights secured by the constitution are involved, there can be no ruling or legislation which would abrogate them”.

South carolina v united states " the constitution is a written instrument,as such its meaning does not alter. That which it ment when it was adopted,it means now".

Marbury v madison “a citizen can refuse to follow a law that violates right that are constitutionally protected”.

Nysrpa v bruen 2022 " the right to keep and bear arms includes bearing arms for personal protection ourside of the home, current and future laws would be required to meet historical tradition"

Mcdonald v city of chicago 2010 “the 2nd amendment is fundamental for self defense and applies to the states under the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment”

District of Columbia v Heller “The right to keep and bear arms is infact an individual right, and no active militia participation is necessary to excercise that right.”

If you are pro 2nd amendment you are pro 2nd amendment for everyone.
if you are not then you are not pro 2nd amendment, you’re pro 2nd amendment to those you approve of.
All these gun laws violate the constitution period and people need to stand up to this.
Absolutely every person in the United states has an equal right to keep and bear arms.
It does not matter what some state law says or city law says it does not matter your background.
your are a “person” and a “citizen.”
All state and city laws are bound by the constitution and if they are not they do not have to be followed as they are tyranical in nature.
Every single gun law lon the books is illegal. Nics background check is illegal,switch bans,magazine bans,bumpstock bans,assault weapons bans are all illegal.
Every gun law back to 1934 legally has to go.

1939 miller v. united states military and militia style weapons are protected under the 2nd amendment
solvent trap is legal
https://rougharms.com/blogs/news/7-t...ent-traps-2022

So what do you tell people doing time in prison right now for those crimes?

[hpdrifter]

Originally Posted by Quackerbox

Lol

I can show you a shizz ton of crimes with ghost guns. I've seen more in the last year than I've seen in 10. In fact I've seen more 80% kits than guns with missing serial numbers.

Non serialized suppressors mounted to non serialized ARs on a murder, ghost glocks with switches on PO involved shootings etc


Now, don't belive for one minute that I think these crooks are committing a crime with a gun they built. And they're too lazy to file off a serial number. But someone is putting them together

These idiots will literally have 9mm ammo in 40 mags sometimes so I find it hard to believe he could mount a block of plastic in a jig much less assemble one

The scary part is the amount of crime guns I personaly come across that aren't listed as stolen. People aren't keeping track of serial numbers or simply failing to call back and have it entered

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

I kept track of mine. Gave em the serial numbers, told them who did it and they said, "we can't do anything".