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Old 04-09-2019, 07:35 PM   #1
stinkbelly
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Default Home ac help

I have an issue with my home ac. I was wondering what these two components are called. They are in the condenser unit.



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Old 04-09-2019, 07:39 PM   #2
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Relay and reversing valve. Is it stuck in heat mode?

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Old 04-09-2019, 07:48 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by LonestarGent View Post
Relay and reversing valve. Is it stuck in heat mode?

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Yep.

Not very often you see that type of relay in a condenser. Maybe a less-zoomed pic? Maybe a mcguyver job if not a really old unit.
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Old 04-09-2019, 08:03 PM   #4
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Less zoomed in.

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Old 04-09-2019, 08:04 PM   #5
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This is a unit from the 80s. The fan and the condenser do not turn on. I have 220 to the unit, the capacitor has been tested and is good. I replace the contactor and the fan motor. I replace the fan motor just because the bearings were going out last time I used it. When I turn the unit on, I do not get the 24 volts to the contactor which would Supply voltage to the compressor and fan motor. What sends 24 volts to the contactor?

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Old 04-09-2019, 08:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkbelly View Post
This is a unit from the 80s. The fan and the condenser do not turn on. I have 220 to the unit, the capacitor has been tested and is good. I replace the contactor and the fan motor. I replace the fan motor just because the bearings were going out last time I used it. When I turn the unit on, I do not get the 24 volts to the contactor which would Supply voltage to the compressor and fan motor. What sends 24 volts to the contactor?
Transformer in the air handler but need to confirm the call from the stat.

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Old 04-09-2019, 08:55 PM   #7
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Does it have a wiring diagram you could take a pic of? Unit could have pressure switches or temp switches Keeping it off.

Most older residential units don't have much in the way of pressure and temp limit switches on them. But there are always exceptions, typically on deluxe models. the relay is most likely a defrost relay. On newer units it will be mounted on the circuit board.

Dadgummit my typing skills suck tonight, must be the narcotics. I mistype at least one letter per sentence.
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:33 PM   #8
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I was told if the air handler blows, then the transformer is good. Is that correct?

I will get a diagram tomorrow. I don't like snakes in the dark.
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Old 04-09-2019, 10:24 PM   #9
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If you’re not getting 24 to the contactor, then the problem is either the Tstat or control board in the indoor unit. Possibly the transformer.

Easiest way to tell if the outdoor unit components work is just press in the contactor and see if everything comes on. That will tell you the problem is inside the house for sure.

Does the inside unit come on? Turn on the Fan on the tstat and see what happens. No fan, means either tstat, Control board or transformer is bad.

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Old 04-09-2019, 11:47 PM   #10
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Pushing in the contactor will only tell you if the compressor and fan are capable of running or not. This being a heat pump it is somewhat more complicated than a straight ac unit. That's why I asked for a wiring diagram, to assist with troubleshooting. You could have as many as 8 low voltage control wires coming into this unit. A voltmeter and the ability to use it will be required.
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:29 AM   #11
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Pull inside cover and check 3 amp fuse first. Also verify that you are getting power to the inside unit.
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:43 AM   #12
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Here is the diagram from the unit.

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Old 04-10-2019, 07:07 AM   #13
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When I turn the thermostat to Cool and set the temperature below the current temperature the blower in the house will turn on and it will blow air. Nothing happens on the outside of the house.

This is a heat pump as stated earlier. Around Christmas it sounded like the bearing in the fan motor in the outside unit were starting to go bad. I decided to turn the unit to electric element heating and replace the motor later. I forgot and when I decided to turn the AC on this year it would do nothing. That is how I got to where I am now. I knew I needed a new fan motor. I decided to replace the contactor because it is original. I had the capacitor tested by the electric motor shop that sells motors and they said it was good.

I was told that if the inside blower fan is blowing it isn't a problem with the transformer. I don't know if that is correct or not.

I didn't see the 3amp fuse referenced above. Where should I look for that?

I put new batteries in the thermostat just to be safe.
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:32 AM   #14
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Freon leak and automatic shut-off?
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:00 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkbelly View Post
When I turn the thermostat to Cool and set the temperature below the current temperature the blower in the house will turn on and it will blow air. Nothing happens on the outside of the house.

This is a heat pump as stated earlier. Around Christmas it sounded like the bearing in the fan motor in the outside unit were starting to go bad. I decided to turn the unit to electric element heating and replace the motor later. I forgot and when I decided to turn the AC on this year it would do nothing. That is how I got to where I am now. I knew I needed a new fan motor. I decided to replace the contactor because it is original. I had the capacitor tested by the electric motor shop that sells motors and they said it was good.

I was told that if the inside blower fan is blowing it isn't a problem with the transformer. I don't know if that is correct or not.

I didn't see the 3amp fuse referenced above. Where should I look for that?

I put new batteries in the thermostat just to be safe.
Does the contactor close on the call for cool?
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:27 AM   #16
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There's a fuse in there, different locations on different unit's. I'f it's blown the board won't have power. You said Tou used the emergency electric heat. Occasionally my unit will pop the fuse if we accidentally switch the thermostat to electric heat. Kill all power and pull the cover and poke around for the fuse.
If you have everything on and push the 24v connector outside does the outside unit come on?
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:57 AM   #17
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When I turn on the AC, I will get 220 V to the contactor, but no power through the contactor.

Txoutdoorsman24, I am not sure what you mean by push the 24v connector. I don't see a place to push the contactor to allow 220 V to pass through it if that is what you mean.

When I push the button in the middle of the relay of the first picture, the reversing valve clicks like it is turning on.

I think I need to look for a fuse and I need to check the transformer to see if it is putting out 24V.
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:03 AM   #18
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you may have a high head pressure safty on the out side unit that is resettable
or you could have a low voltage wire broken that come from the inside unit or t stat
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Old 04-10-2019, 12:47 PM   #19
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Maybe 24v coil on contactor is no good?
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Old 04-10-2019, 01:24 PM   #20
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If you take those little screws out on the black cover on the contractor you will be able to push the contacts in and the unit should start. Sounds like your issue is the 24v coming to the contractor.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:51 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkbelly View Post
When I turn on the AC, I will get 220 V to the contactor, but no power through the contactor.

Txoutdoorsman24, I am not sure what you mean by push the 24v connector. I don't see a place to push the contactor to allow 220 V to pass through it if that is what you mean.

When I push the button in the middle of the relay of the first picture, the reversing valve clicks like it is turning on.

I think I need to look for a fuse and I need to check the transformer to see if it is putting out 24V.
On the contactor, there is a flat plastic cap over the contacts themselves. Remove the two small Phillips head screws and you can push in the contactor pads.
Your relay is good sounds like. You could have ants, a spider, or lizards or some kind of insect in the contactor. That was a common problem for outside units not coming on. if not, the issue is coming from inside most likely.

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Old 04-10-2019, 03:55 PM   #22
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Your diagram shows a low pressure switch. If the refrigerant pressure is lower than the setting on this switch, nothing will run outside. Do you have a voltmeter? We can take a couple of readings and see what the problem is. Send me a pm
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:27 PM   #23
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I just got out of the attic. It is hot up there. I found two issues. One of the wires coming from the 24v side of the Transformer touched the back of the heating element and was welded to it. It burned through the insulation. Also on the 240-volt side of the Transformer the common contact appears to be rigged and it just fell out when I touched it. I obviously need a new Transformer. I'm not exactly sure which one to get there's not all the writing on it like I expected. This is for a heat pump and it has a serial number with the last part of it 35a. I don't know if that means anything or not.

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Old 04-10-2019, 07:30 PM   #24
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Transformer pics

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Old 04-10-2019, 07:58 PM   #25
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I found it on Repair Clinic. It's a 208 or 240 volts to 24 volts transformer with a rating of 40 VA. Now I need to just find one
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Old 04-10-2019, 08:29 PM   #26
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Got a grainger nearby?
any 208-240 x 24v 40va will work if it will mount. If you have a short somewhere, it could cause your transformer issues. Check your control wires outside for damage from pets or rodents. dogs like to chew on them for some reason.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:42 PM   #27
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I installed the transformer and I am still not getting 24v to the contactor at the condenser. I am kind of thinking it might be the time delay switches or the thermostat. I couldn't find a heat pump compatible thermostat locally.

When it was working, I would turn the system on and I would hear a click at the thermostat. I would then hear what sounded like water running and then about 30 seconds later the fan blower would turn on. Now I turn the system on, I hear the click, 30 seconds or so later the fan blower turns on. So I am missing the step where the compressor turns on which make me think one of the time delay switches is bad.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:46 PM   #28
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Did you ever get to look at the contactor and make sure it's good, nothing stuck in it?

Can you get to the wire terminals o nthe Tstat? If so, pull the face off and check to see it you have 24 to the red wire and Common, R terminal and C terminal. you have batteries in the thermostat right?
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:07 PM   #29
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Turn Tstat to cool.

Does the blower inside come on, and not the outside unit, or nothing at all?

If nothing at all, you still have a low voltage issue of some sort.

If inside does come on, check for 24v across y and c where it comes into the outdoor unit (usually wire nutted right inside the unit). If you are getting 24v, your problem is likely a pressure switch or relay. If not, go back inside and trace back to where you are losing your 24v call.
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:05 PM   #30
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I installed a new contactor first.

When I turn the system to cool the blower comes on, but not anything outside.

The electric heater works, but not the heat pump because once again the condenser will not turn on.

I can get to the terminals in the thermostat. Does it need to have 24 volts with the unit off or in cool or does it matter?

While looking around inside the condenser I found this switch. Where does it go and how does it work? I assume it's a thermal switch.



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Old 04-15-2019, 09:08 PM   #31
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Yes batteries in the thermostat

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Old 04-15-2019, 09:14 PM   #32
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Here are the terminals in the thermostat. I do not have any wires in the W3, B, or L position.

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Old 04-15-2019, 11:15 PM   #33
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You shouldn’t have any in those terminals. That looks fine.

You might be able to get 24v on the R terminal and that mounting screw below. You don’t have a common terminal in that Tstat. It’s getting hard to diagnose now that obvious is out of the way.
With a call for cool, blower comes on but nothing outside. I’d go to the outdoor unit and make sure no Tstat wires were chewed up by rodents and such. Tstat seems to be good. Issue has to be in the wiring or a relay. Might be on a control board.

How long ago did you replace that contactor?
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Old 04-16-2019, 03:09 AM   #34
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My advice is not to pay attention to what some are saying.
If you are unfamiliar with the electrical components in the unit DO NOT remove the cover and press to test. Thatís stupid advice

Also, if 24v to the contractor is interrupted due to a system safety being open, itís to prevent damage to the system and manually pushing the contacts bypasses the safety. More stupid advice
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:00 AM   #35
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Is it possible you have a drain pan float switch inside? That would kill 24v to condenser but still let inside come on.
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Old 04-16-2019, 06:37 AM   #36
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Im not sure of terminology but on mine last year the wire that goes from outside unit to inside was broken inside the wire insulation. I tried for a few days in the heat of summer and 2 different ac guys. I finally was going to repull that wire and I was pulling on it and it came apart. It was like finding gold for me.
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Old 04-16-2019, 07:11 AM   #37
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The contactor was replaced a week or so ago when this all started.

I don't have any drain pan float switch. This is an OLD unit.

I will check the wires tonight. My first thought was the wires, but they looked good. I will look harder.

The switch I found yesterday is the heat pump defrost thermostat/switch. Would that be the issue? It was just hanging down along the side of the compressor.

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Old 04-16-2019, 09:58 AM   #38
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I think this is the video I watched.

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Old 04-16-2019, 04:02 PM   #39
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If your indoor unit will come on, you are definitely getting 24v.

Have you checked to see if you are getting 24v on Y wire outside during a call for cooling?

That defrost thermostat should be attached to the outdoor coil via a little metal clip. On a unit this old, it probably rusted off. It wont affect the unit coming on in cooling mode.

Might be time to call in an expert. Only so much diagnosing can be done over the web.

That old unit costs you money every time it turns on. Consider that before investing too much more time or $$.
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Old 04-16-2019, 10:12 PM   #40
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I am getting 24 volt power to the yellow red and orange out in the condenser when the thermostat is set to cool. I only get it to the red when the thermostat is turned to off. The yellow goes through a low pressure switch and I get no power on the other side of it. It looks like the thermostat is working in all settings. Here is a picture of the low pressure switch. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be open or closed.

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Old 04-16-2019, 10:36 PM   #41
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Bypass that low pressure switch. If nothing else it will eliminate that possibility. It's normally closed, so cut and wire nut together. You can put it back in series easily.

pray for rain
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Old 04-16-2019, 10:43 PM   #42
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The switch that was hanging down usually has a small metal clip and it goes on the liquid line, it is not the issue right now.

pray for rain
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Old 04-17-2019, 07:02 AM   #43
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This is an old unit. The one hanging down was actually glued on. The newer version of it has the clip.

Thanks
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Old 04-17-2019, 07:29 AM   #44
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Do you have gauges?

Sounds like a refrigerant problem if the lps is open.
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Old 04-17-2019, 08:35 AM   #45
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Sounds like you need to call a professional.
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Old 04-17-2019, 08:54 AM   #46
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The pressure switch is supposed to be closed. If itís open itís because of low pressure.
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Old 04-17-2019, 09:00 AM   #47
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I don't have gauges.

I have learned more in the past 2 weeks about my unit than I have in the previous 20 years of living here.
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