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Old 01-20-2019, 05:54 PM   #1
Black-N-Red
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I would like to try & kill a hog this year with my bow around a 100yrds. What arrow set up would yall recommend? Looking for a happy medium between speed & momentum. Ill be shooting my Full Throttle. Im shooting 300spine fmjs right now but Im getting a little bit of tail whip but I have done any tune yet. Just shooting it at 20 & 40 to settle the strings in. Its shooting 543gr now at 285.
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Old 01-20-2019, 06:02 PM   #2
IbeHuntn
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You have to do a live hunt on this one. Going to great. Best of luck


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Old 01-20-2019, 06:03 PM   #3
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Great slugs!

What weight head are you using currently and FOC?
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Old 01-20-2019, 07:04 PM   #4
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Should be fun. Hogs move a lot. Going to be tuff hitting where needed.

But since this is what you want to do. Yardage is going to be critical no matter what. So go with mass. Build mass with foc. The mass in the front will help you keep the shaft in line. The mass in front will help with impact.

I would not shoot fmj. Good arrow horrible for foc. And your going to want foc.

Bump that arrow up to 575. Going to loose less then 10fps prolly closer to only 8fps.

If I was building this arrow for my self I would be using either a grizzly stik or black eagle. 240/250spine.

100 yards is a long way to just using standard tuning for this type of hunting. I recommend verifying power stroke, nock tune bareshaft, then cut and trim.

Lots to get ready for long distance hunting
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Old 01-21-2019, 10:03 AM   #5
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What enewman said, plus a lot more!

Tuning, both arrow and bow, will be critical for this distance. Normal tuning isn't going to cut it, you will need to line tune for that hunting distance. Greg Poole has a good video of how to do this, AKA BowJunkie Media, look it up on youtube.

More importantly is you and your set up. Small things, like where your peep is set up in relation to your yardage tape, will make a BIG difference when shooting at 100 yards.

Your form must be spot on, a 1/2 deviation in elevation (at the shot) will be something like a 13" difference in impact point.

This isn't something to be taken lightly, this is going to require some work...
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Old 01-21-2019, 10:21 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat View Post
What enewman said, plus a lot more!

Tuning, both arrow and bow, will be critical for this distance. Normal tuning isn't going to cut it, you will need to line tune for that hunting distance. Greg Poole has a good video of how to do this, AKA BowJunkie Media, look it up on youtube.

More importantly is you and your set up. Small things, like where your peep is set up in relation to your yardage tape, will make a BIG difference when shooting at 100 yards.

Your form must be spot on, a 1/2 deviation in elevation (at the shot) will be something like a 13" difference in impact point.

This isn't something to be taken lightly, this is going to require some work...
Yes lots of work. A little bobble and a total miss.
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Old 01-21-2019, 10:40 AM   #7
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Good sights make archery shots longer and longer with practice. I went to HTH with the intention of breaking the ranch long shot record. The standing record was 65 yards. I was practicing nightly between 55-95 yards. I have the accutouch 5 pin with a 100 yard dial down capability.
Jason shot his ram at 74 so I backed up to 94 and let it fly. Couple inches high in the shoulder blade. Lethal hit but I followed up with a second closer shot for mercy.

This was a small bodied black Hawaiian ram. I would put a little more weight into the FOC as noted by others. Youll need the KE on impact for a pig. I am shooting Easton Axis Nanos 5mm tipped with a rage hypo. It barely made it thru the shoulder blade of the ram.



Good luck.

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Old 01-21-2019, 07:07 PM   #8
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Are manufacturers spine rating pretty close to one another? Say GT & Black Eagle? The only 250 spine I could find any of my local shops was GT Pierce. He had the foc weights & fusion vanes all in stock. I picked up 6 arrows to play around with. Had had 3 arrows cut one at 31, 30 & 29 to see how the different length fly. But if I get a set up in GT to fly good, would the same weight & foc in Black Eagle fly the same? The GTs are gonna to light, I think theyll end up in the 466-480gr area. And want to run in 550-575gr area.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-N-Red View Post
Are manufacturers spine rating pretty close to one another? Say GT & Black Eagle? The only 250 spine I could find any of my local shops was GT Pierce. He had the foc weights & fusion vanes all in stock. I picked up 6 arrows to play around with. Had had 3 arrows cut one at 31”, 30” & 29” to see how the different length fly. But if I get a set up in GT to fly good, would the same weight & foc in Black Eagle fly the same? The GT’s are gonna to light, I think they’ll end up in the 466-480gr area. And want to run in 550-575gr area.
Spine yes, within reason anyway. The big difference is going to be the drag coefficient, everything must be the same or the drag coefficient changes and that will change the amount of drop the arrow has at distance. FOC has a little to do with cast as well, but not near as much as drag.

550-575 for 100 yards is pretty heavy, it will be tough to get the sight low enough for an arrow like that. I'm thinking 480-500 is a better weight, and probably closer to 480 gr. Gonna hafta think of the whole system when building this.

Of course, I don't know what you have planned for this (sight, anchor, etc). There are always work arounds.

Flying well is going to be paramount for this type of hunt, I would concentrate on that and not try to hit a total weight just yet. See where the sights and everything are going to end up first.

On edit: I reread your original post and see you are getting blazing speed out of that Full Throttle. Having said that, will your sight go to 100 yards now without interference with the arrow? If so, I would build to 575 gr. all FOC.

Last edited by Rat; 01-21-2019 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 01-21-2019, 08:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat View Post
Spine yes, within reason anyway. The big difference is going to be the drag coefficient, everything must be the same or the drag coefficient changes and that will change the amount of drop the arrow has at distance. FOC has a little to do with cast as well, but not near as much as drag.

550-575 for 100 yards is pretty heavy, it will be tough to get the sight low enough for an arrow like that. I'm thinking 480-500 is a better weight, and probably closer to 480 gr. Gonna hafta think of the whole system when building this.

Of course, I don't know what you have planned for this (sight, anchor, etc). There are always work arounds.

Flying well is going to be paramount for this type of hunt, I would concentrate on that and not try to hit a total weight just yet. See where the sights and everything are going to end up first.

On edit: I reread your original post and see you are getting blazing speed out of that Full Throttle. Having said that, will your sight go to 100 yards now without interference with the arrow? If so, I would build to 575 gr. all FOC.
Nice edit there rat. Lol
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Old 01-21-2019, 09:09 PM   #11
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I realize about the drag & all that stuff, is just trying to get an idea on arrow length & foc for the 250 spine arrows. As of now I have a 288fps tape on my sight & there is plenty of room under the sight housing. Thanks for all the input on this. Im getting pretty excited for this build, should be fun & very informative.

As for fletching I have fusion vanes, should I run a 4 fletch? I also have some of the aae small fletching. Cant remember the actual name but they quite a bit smaller than the fusions.
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Old 01-21-2019, 09:40 PM   #12
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Nice edit there rat. Lol
Sometimes my brain just skips right over the obvious!

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Old 01-22-2019, 01:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enewman View Post
Should be fun. Hogs move a lot. Going to be tuff hitting where needed.

But since this is what you want to do. Yardage is going to be critical no matter what. So go with mass. Build mass with foc. The mass in the front will help you keep the shaft in line. The mass in front will help with impact.

I would not shoot fmj. Good arrow horrible for foc. And your going to want foc.

Bump that arrow up to 575. Going to loose less then 10fps prolly closer to only 8fps.

If I was building this arrow for my self I would be using either a grizzly stik or black eagle. 240/250spine.

100 yards is a long way to just using standard tuning for this type of hunting. I recommend verifying power stroke, nock tune bareshaft, then cut and trim.

Lots to get ready for long distance hunting
How much foc should I be looking for?

I put some shafts together this morning, GT Pierce 250, 4 fletched with fusion vanes, I did a 31 shaft, 30shaft & a 29 shaft, 40gr behind the insert & 125gr head. Got the following foc

31 shaft-14.06%
30 shaft-14.52%
29 shaft-15%

Havent shot any of these yet. Ill be shooting them this evening to see how they fly.
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Old 01-22-2019, 04:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-N-Red View Post
How much foc should I be looking for?

I put some shafts together this morning, GT Pierce 250, 4 fletched with fusion vanes, I did a 31 shaft, 30shaft & a 29 shaft, 40gr behind the insert & 125gr head. Got the following foc

31 shaft-14.06%
30 shaft-14.52%
29 shaft-15%

Havent shot any of these yet. Ill be shooting them this evening to see how they fly.
Between 15% and 18% tune the best for me, once I get over 18% the groups start to open up. Not at 20 yards mind you, at distance. Yours my be different, just gonna hafta shoot 'em and see; but I would start at 15% and up from there.
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Old 01-23-2019, 09:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-N-Red View Post
How much foc should I be looking for?

I put some shafts together this morning, GT Pierce 250, 4 fletched with fusion vanes, I did a 31 shaft, 30shaft & a 29 shaft, 40gr behind the insert & 125gr head. Got the following foc

31 shaft-14.06%
30 shaft-14.52%
29 shaft-15%

Havent shot any of these yet. Ill be shooting them this evening to see how they fly.
Im with RAT. 15%to 18%.

Now it wont hurt to play with this. I run my arrows around 25%. But Im short. So my arrows are 4 shorter then your short one listed.

If you do a good tune. I would test the three you listed. Going from 14% to 15% is an increase of 7.2% increase. In reality thats noting at all. And as far as penetration goes is nothing. You would need to get to 20% to see the difference in penetration. But since we are shooting long distance we need the foc to be where the arrow groups the best. This you will need to play with.
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:09 PM   #16
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Ive got some arrows together that are flying really well. Havent shot them past 60 yet but out to 60 they fly great. Only problem is theyre to light. So Im wanting to put some other arrows together that are heavier. This is what I have now:

GT Pierce 250 spine 9.8gpi
28 long
Insert & collar 43gr (I believe)
30gr behind the insert
125gr
4 fletched with AAE Pro Max
503gr

They come in at 503gr. Any ideas on what other arrow I could get to get me up to around 560-580gr? I looked at the Black Eagle Renagade, best I could get there is 541gr, thats the basically set up the same as the GT Pierce, but thats also with 211gr up front in a 28 shaft, now Im sitting with 197gr up front. Would the extra 15grs up front on a 28 shaft weaken the spine?

Possible arrow:

Black Eagle Renagade 250 spine 10.8gpi
28 long
Outsert 56gr
30gr behind insert
125gr head
4 fletched with AAE Pro Max
541gr
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Old 01-25-2019, 11:47 AM   #17
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I’d be looking at something like the Victory Extorsion with a buttload of weight up front. They are heavy at 12 gpi, but when you try to get to 550+ grains you can still hit a good FOC. Here is what I’d shoot for:

Victory Extorsion 28”- 361 grains unfinished
Easton X nocks-8 grains or so
Ethics 100 grain static insert (can be adjusted by cutting at designated points)
VPA 100, 125 vented/150, 175 or 200 grain non-vented 2 blade head
4-fletch fusion x-ii or fusion x vanes

This setup is going to get you anywhere from 550-670 ish grains depending on how heavy you decide to run the insert and Broadhead. At 100 yards, I’d think that you’re pushing your yardage tape with any arrow heavier than 550, potentially you still won’t be able to get 100 even with that depending on your peep-to-arrow relation.

As for the FOC, I have no clue what my recommendation would net you. I just know that if it tunes well a 2 blade fixed head with that much weight behind it will stick into things.
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Old 01-25-2019, 12:23 PM   #18
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My personal opinion, don't get too caught up on FOC. I bet your current setup will work just fine. I shoot plain ole GT 300s with 125 grain wacems to 94 (max travel for my site) with no problems. I have never shot an animal past 52 yards with that setup but i would trust it on a sub 200# pig at 100.

I'd say stick with a small fixed blade at that distance. Will require a perfect tune but that's better in the end anyways. Expandable is sucking up valuable energy at that distance.
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Old 01-26-2019, 01:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-N-Red View Post
I would like to try & kill a hog this year with my bow around a 100yrds. What arrow set up would yall recommend? Looking for a happy medium between speed & momentum. Ill be shooting my Full Throttle. Im shooting 300spine fmjs right now but Im getting a little bit of tail whip but I have done any tune yet. Just shooting it at 20 & 40 to settle the strings in. Its shooting 543gr now at 285.
Why are you ****in with a good thing? Just fix the tail whip and....youre money right? Sounds like a solid spear for 100.
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Old 01-26-2019, 04:28 PM   #20
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I got to shoot a little bit today I was just trying to get in target at 100 to see what arrow flight looked like in the air. The 3 fletch AAE Pro Max fly the best hands down. Finished arrow: Gold Tip Pierce 250, 125gr head, 30gr behind the insert, 3 fletch AAE Pro Max, if remember right the foc is right at 18%, 496gr, running 294fps. As of now these are grouping right at 2 1/2”. I haven’t fine tuned to sight either, got pretty shaky so quit when I got it on target & I’ll fine tune the sight tomorrow maybe. These arrows are practice, means I’ve never built my own arrow before. I’ll be using these for now to practice at that distance to working on my form & working with the bow to get it balanced.
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Old 01-28-2019, 10:29 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-N-Red View Post
I got to shoot a little bit today I was just trying to get in target at 100 to see what arrow flight looked like in the air. The 3 fletch AAE Pro Max fly the best hands down. Finished arrow: Gold Tip Pierce 250, 125gr head, 30gr behind the insert, 3 fletch AAE Pro Max, if remember right the foc is right at 18%, 496gr, running 294fps. As of now these are grouping right at 2 1/2. I havent fine tuned to sight either, got pretty shaky so quit when I got it on target & Ill fine tune the sight tomorrow maybe. These arrows are practice, means Ive never built my own arrow before. Ill be using these for now to practice at that distance to working on my form & working with the bow to get it balanced.
Sounds like you are getting her dialed in, good job!
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Old 01-28-2019, 10:36 AM   #22
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foc is likely most important in your setup so the head pulls the arrow straight along and not the other way around.
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Old 01-28-2019, 10:51 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-N-Red View Post
I would like to try & kill a hog this year with my bow around a 100yrds. What arrow set up would y’all recommend? Looking for a happy medium between speed & momentum. I’ll be shooting my Full Throttle. I’m shooting 300spine fmj’s right now but I’m getting a little bit of tail whip but I have done any tune yet. Just shooting it at 20 & 40 to settle the strings in. It’s shooting 543gr now at 285.
switch to a 3" parabolic feather with helical,,, I did a whole lot of 100 yard shooting a couple years ago,,, in the wind blazers had a tendency to tail to the side, causing some complete misses, 4" feathers ( using the same aim point for all shots) hit the ground well before the target,, 3" vanes tended to string horizontally but shot the flattest of everything, they also hit the highest to the point of aim,, 3" feathers grouped in a nice round pattern, and were only a couple inches lower than the 3" vanes,,, I tried beman, gold tip , victory, and carbon express shafts,, along with the standard axis shaft,,, hands down the axis was superior in the wind. I was only shooting about 410 gr, it should still be an excellent choice for the shaft

Last edited by xman59; 01-28-2019 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 01-29-2019, 03:30 PM   #24
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C
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Old 01-29-2019, 03:49 PM   #25
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That is going to be a heck of a shot.
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Old 01-29-2019, 04:03 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-N-Red View Post
I got to shoot a little bit today I was just trying to get in target at 100 to see what arrow flight looked like in the air. The 3 fletch AAE Pro Max fly the best hands down. Finished arrow: Gold Tip Pierce 250, 125gr head, 30gr behind the insert, 3 fletch AAE Pro Max, if remember right the foc is right at 18%, 496gr, running 294fps. As of now these are grouping right at 2 1/2. I havent fine tuned to sight either, got pretty shaky so quit when I got it on target & Ill fine tune the sight tomorrow maybe. These arrows are practice, means Ive never built my own arrow before. Ill be using these for now to practice at that distance to working on my form & working with the bow to get it balanced.
You're shooting 2.5" groups at 100??? Did I read that correct? Shooting a basketball sized group at 100 is awesome, 2.5" is crazy good dude!
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Old 01-29-2019, 07:47 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by tmurray View Post
You're shooting 2.5" groups at 100??? Did I read that correct? Shooting a basketball sized group at 100 is awesome, 2.5" is crazy good dude!
Its extremely hard to hold that group. I usually wait about 5-10 minutes between shots & then only shoot about 6 arrows at that distance. The last time I shot I rushed through the 6 arrows, since I rushed the group suffered bad from it. Needless to say Im short an arrow since I rushed it. That last arrows was probably about 1 over the 3D target. 🤣🤣🤣
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