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Old 02-12-2019, 02:07 AM   #1
Tsavoie22
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Default Need some real estate advice please

So We purchased 15 acres last year with hopes of building our home it. So last August I put in for a permit with corps of engineers to dig a pond and build up my property and a house pad. So fast forward till last week I finally heard back from them now they tell me my property is mostly wetlands. I purchased this land with restrictions and residential property. Looking back now guess I should have looked further into. But the bank didnít catch this either and the realtor didnít disclose it. So I have researched about mitigation and it looks like it will cost anywhere from 5k to 70k per acre to mitigate. Now I donít know what to do the land is no longer worth what I paid for it. Any help there would be greatly appreciated.


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Old 02-12-2019, 03:35 AM   #2
ttaxidermy
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OUCH!!! Wetlands???
My wife has been in the business for 32 years.. Ill ask her what her take is on this in the morning..
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Old 02-12-2019, 04:56 AM   #3
Stan R
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This is the age of disclosure. The seller and agent should have known and disclosed.
Why did you apply for a permit to dig a pond?
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Old 02-12-2019, 06:47 AM   #4
Tsavoie22
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This is the age of disclosure. The seller and agent should have known and disclosed.
Why did you apply for a permit to dig a pond?


Because my parish requires ones.


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Old 02-12-2019, 07:06 AM   #5
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Title insurance maybe? That's a tough one. Good luck.

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Old 02-12-2019, 07:32 AM   #6
Stan R
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Because my parish requires ones.


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It did not say a state so I assumed it was Texas.


It should have been disclosed.
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:08 AM   #7
Chance Love
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Did you have a Realtor representing you as the buyer?
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:56 AM   #8
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https://www.fws.gov/wetlands/data/Mapper.html

Look it up on here, it is pretty accurate.

I am working on a land deal now in Brazoria county. Seller has a wetland report from 2017, saying no jurisdictional wetlands. I paid for one 3 months ago that says, 5 acres of wetlands. I want to say it is more art than science. You will need to prove that the Seller knew about it too, if you think they failed to disclose it.

To further complicate things. Obama made the wetlands a bunch more stringent, Trump is trying to walk some of the regulations back. It is stuck in the courts, and I want to say we are now abiding by pre Obama restrictions , but most government employees are kicking decisions down the road.

Can you not build a slab, and build on piers? You can also donate the land as a mitigation bank.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:05 AM   #9
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Get rich by SELLING mitigation credits. Lemons leamonaid
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:19 AM   #10
centex_aggie
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Your best recourse might be going back to the seller to determine if they failed to disclose any knowledge of wetlands. The cost to mitigate is going to be high. Unless you fill a very small portion of the wetlands (less than half an acre) and can stomach the cost. You definitely want to stay under the threshold for a NWP.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:27 AM   #11
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Unfortunately, in the game of real estate it is buyer beware. While it is likely that the seller had prior knowledge of this it would be difficult to prove it. Even if you did and won the case there is no guarantee that they would pay.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:41 AM   #12
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Where in Louisiana is this?
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:57 AM   #13
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I would talk to a real estate attorney, if realtors were used I would go back to both of them and the buyer as well. If it was sold as residential and it was wetlands (floodplain) You should have recourse.
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:15 AM   #14
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Wetlands do not equal floodplain. First off when dealing with a wetland you will need to determine if the wetland is jurisdictional or not. You can have a wetland, but it does not mean that it is under the USACE's jurisdiction. If the pond/wetland is isolated, you are in luck and more than likely would not be considered jurisdictional. Now since you said Parish, I am assuming that you are either in the New Orleans district or Vicksburg District, each district has their own way they view things, plus the WOTUS rule was blocked in Louisiana so you are at the USACE's discretion. So with all that said, I would suggest you getting a Preliminary Jurisdictional Determination done, which entails, a biologist going out to the site, seeing what type of wetland it is, drafting a report, and then submitting the report to the USACE to see if they agree or disagree. If you need any help please holler, I do not do this for a living, but my staff does.
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:25 PM   #15
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Did you have a Realtor representing you as the buyer?


Yes she represented both buyer and seller


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Old 02-12-2019, 02:26 PM   #16
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Where in Louisiana is this?


South of Lake Charles


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Old 02-12-2019, 02:31 PM   #17
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Yes she represented both buyer and seller


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Oh, I bet she did.
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:31 PM   #18
Tsavoie22
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Originally Posted by Aggiechick View Post
Wetlands do not equal floodplain. First off when dealing with a wetland you will need to determine if the wetland is jurisdictional or not. You can have a wetland, but it does not mean that it is under the USACE's jurisdiction. If the pond/wetland is isolated, you are in luck and more than likely would not be considered jurisdictional. Now since you said Parish, I am assuming that you are either in the New Orleans district or Vicksburg District, each district has their own way they view things, plus the WOTUS rule was blocked in Louisiana so you are at the USACE's discretion. So with all that said, I would suggest you getting a Preliminary Jurisdictional Determination done, which entails, a biologist going out to the site, seeing what type of wetland it is, drafting a report, and then submitting the report to the USACE to see if they agree or disagree. If you need any help please holler, I do not do this for a living, but my staff does.


They have already done the preliminary. But Corp Said they only did 5 out of the 15 acres. Told me I will need to hire a consultant for the whole thing and resubmit the findings.


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Old 02-12-2019, 02:36 PM   #19
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It just really frustrating to me cause I donít understand how the government can tell u what u can and canít do on your land. Itís not like Iím in the middle of the marsh. The property was a hay field a couple years ago


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Old 02-12-2019, 03:34 PM   #20
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This is why most private individuals end up just doing what they want and hope that they do not get "caught" in the end. Now that the USACE has performed their own delineation, you are a bit stuck..they do not like to change their mind and state that something is not a wetland. In fact, one of my guys just met with the USACE the other day and initially they said the project would fall under an Nationwide Permit, but now will require an Individual Permit, and that is all because the initial regulator's boss got involved.

Now with that said, if you want to fill in no more than 1/2 an acre, then it does not mater if a wetland is on your property, you will need to complete a pre-construction notification under Nationwide Permit 29 (residential development) and you should be covered. If you want more than 1/2 an acre, then I would suggest you get a consultant to come out and delineate the wetland, submit the preliminary jurisdictional determination and go from there.

I reviewed the Nationwide Wetland Inventory (which is what most lenders look at) the site does not have a known wetland, it does have a waterway on the southside of the property. So it is my guess that the previous owners or realtor knew that a potential wetland was on the property.

I suggest you call a consultant in the area who deal with the New Orleans district often. The cost up front will be worth it. If you need names, let me know.
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Old 02-12-2019, 04:09 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsavoie22 View Post
Yes she represented both buyer and seller
If they served as an intermediary, they got paid twice, but I think that covers their but too. In TX "the intermediary broker may not express opinions or give advice during negotiations."

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Itís not like Iím in the middle of the marsh. T
The flood plain in LA is basically everything south of I-10.

Have family in Big Lake, duck hunt near Creole. That area is pretty much all marsh.
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Old 02-12-2019, 04:13 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by batmaninja View Post
If they served as an intermediary, they got paid twice, but I think that covers their but too. In TX "the intermediary broker may not express opinions or give advice during negotiations."







The flood plain in LA is basically everything south of I-10.



Have family in Big Lake, duck hunt near Creole. That area is pretty much all marsh.


Yea I was raised in creole. Everything wet


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Old 02-12-2019, 08:25 PM   #23
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Let me tell you my step dad's experience dealing with buying property and the Corps of Engineers. He bought a piece of property along a creek that feeds Sam Rayburn Reservoir from someone who's family has more money than God and lots of land in several counties. He found out about Corps jurisdiction when he planted some fruit trees, on property that he paid taxes on, below what the Corps said was the high water line and would have to be dug up- can't plant, cut down, build or place a structure below this line. Turns out the seller is not required to disclose to buyer about property that falls under the jurisdiction of the Corps of Engineers. So, if you are buying land that borders a "natural lake" that is fed by streams, creeks, or rivers do your due diligence and check on this.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:15 PM   #24
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I think I would put it back up for sale and just take my losses. On to the next piece of land.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:46 PM   #25
Tsavoie22
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I think I would put it back up for sale and just take my losses. On to the next piece of land.


Yeah that would be nice but I paid over 11k an acre for it. No one gonna pay that for wetlands


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Old 02-12-2019, 10:00 PM   #26
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Yeah that would be nice but I paid over 11k an acre for it. No one gonna pay that for wetlands


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Worst case scenario I believe you could cover a capital loss on an 8949 to reduce capital gains at $3000 a year. Painfully that may be easier than dealing with improving the property.
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Old 02-13-2019, 08:09 AM   #27
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Yes she represented both buyer and seller


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That is a no no
It's like using your wife's lawyer during a divorce
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