Reply
Go Back   TexasBowhunter.com Community Discussion Forums > Topics > Equipment and Tuning
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-16-2019, 02:53 PM   #1
Katch66
Ten Point
 
Katch66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montalba
Hunt In: Anderson County
Default Help. Adding Weight to Arrow

I need some help/advice. I am wanting to shoot a heavier arrow. The following is what I am shooting now and my bow specs.

Mathews SBXT - 65 lbs, 28" draw, ATA 31", Brace Height 7.5", IBO 315

Current arrow - Gold Tip Hunter XT, 28", 8.9 GPI 340 spine, 3 blazer vanes at 6 gr each, GT nock 11.5 gr, GT insert 12.1 gr, 100 gr tip. TAW of 390.8 gr

Does this arrow have the spine to add a 50 or 75 gr insert? What would this do to the FOC?

If this will not work I have thought of using either a 5mm FMJ at 300 spine, 28", at 12 GPI or a 6mm FMJ at 320 spine, 28", at 10.6 GPI. Which would be better to use and with what grain of insert?

I will be using this set up for TX whitetails and hogs at distances not to exceed 35 - 40 yards. I want the extra weight for a more efficient hunting arrow without killing all of my arrow speed.

Thanks in advance for any help/guidance that you can provide. I have researched this topic a bit and there are varying opinions. Most of the useful info has come from members here on TBH.
Katch66 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-16-2019, 03:41 PM   #2
kingranch
Ten Point
 
kingranch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: austin
Default

id go with a 300 spine arrow.. my setup is very similar to yours
i was shooting axis 5mm 300s at 10.8gpi (great arrows) but recently switched to gold tip 300 that are near 8gpi. This allowed me to add inserts up front w higher FOC and still end up with heavy shooter. Knock on wood i mostly have the problem finding the arrow after it gets a pass thru. Yea its slower than most but when it gets there it keeps on going

My setup was put together and tuned by Aaron at Hoffys.... he knows his stuff
kingranch is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-16-2019, 08:05 PM   #3
muddyfuzzy
Pope & Young
 
muddyfuzzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: gulf coast
Hunt In: Parts Unknown
Default

Arrow length plays a huge role in the outcome of dynamic spine reaction. Depending on how short the arrow is cut many times you can pull what would normally be a weakly spined arrow into a tunable setup. When I still had my Switchback I ran a 350 spine Carnivore with 240 up front. The bow was 69#ís @ 27.5Ē DL, the setup shot great and tuned very well. The arrow was cut to 26Ē AMO.

However, generally I opt for a stiffer setup as most bows usually prefer that reaction. As far as your question as to the effect of front loading vs %FOC, a General rule of thumb (with a normal setup) I find is that 25 grains or so will usually equate to about 1% net increase in FOC. Just keep in mind; and itís just my opinion for what itís worth, donít get so much wrapped up in the numbers the emphasis should be on building a sound/complete system.

The last thing relates to arrow weight. There are several way to affect it with shaft weight and tip weight being the most common. Personally, I use both. I donít shoot a micro diameter ďfor increased penetrationĒ and the benefits in cross wind for me are negligible, I shoot the DI 300 because it runs 11 GPI. For my draw length it would normally be too stiff but I run 243 up front on the setup to set the spine right and fine tune it with the length.

In closing you have a few options. (1) buy a couple of FP to simulate adding the weighted inserts and work the shaft length to set the spine. You should find out quick if itís doable. The other option is to run the 300ís and load them up but even with the additional 75 grains it still might be too stiff. Again work the arrow length to set the spine in a favorable reaction.

Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
muddyfuzzy is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-16-2019, 08:30 PM   #4
TxStrong
Four Point
 
TxStrong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Bulverde
Hunt In: Comal Co.
Default

I just put 50+20gr FACT weight up front on my Gold Tip Xt hunters. Mine are a 300 spine cut to 29”however. Had to come down from 70lbs to about 63-64lbs to keep the spine right.

My arrow weight is now over 500gr. total now with about 14% FOC.

Defiantly worth it. My groups tightened up a bit.
TxStrong is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-16-2019, 08:53 PM   #5
Katch66
Ten Point
 
Katch66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montalba
Hunt In: Anderson County
Default

Thanks guys. That info gives me a lot to think about. I will probably do as you suggest Muddy and try a 150 to 175 gr FP to see how it affects the Gold Tip and go from there. I have been wanting to try out the FMJ's though and might go with the 6mm in the 320 spine.
Katch66 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-16-2019, 10:39 PM   #6
muddyfuzzy
Pope & Young
 
muddyfuzzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: gulf coast
Hunt In: Parts Unknown
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katch66 View Post
Thanks guys. That info gives me a lot to think about. I will probably do as you suggest Muddy and try a 150 to 175 gr FP to see how it affects the Gold Tip and go from there. I have been wanting to try out the FMJ's though and might go with the 6mm in the 320 spine.

The FMJ is great for building weight but the high GPI can make building high/extreme FOC challenging in some cases, it just depends. I think you may be surprised what the GT can do if itís shortened up, plus shortening the arrow will automatically build FOC. I donít know what type of rest you run but most folks can shoot an arrow at least 1-1/2Ē shorter than their draw length. You can stiffen that shaft up a fair amount cutting it down. After you have done that and you still arenít getting the desired results take about a turn and a half out of the bow. If you get a better reaction then you have verified the weak spine. Your bow isnít super hot, draw length isnít long and you shoot a little under peak weight......I think you will be fine if you want to work it out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
muddyfuzzy is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-17-2019, 10:22 AM   #7
Stoof
Pope & Young
 
Stoof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wimberley
Hunt In: Will work for hunts.
Default

Good explanation muddy. I have had good luck with 340 FMJ's cut to 27.25" with a 28 inch draw length, pulling 65 pounds. 125 g heads.
Stoof is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-17-2019, 01:15 PM   #8
Katch66
Ten Point
 
Katch66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montalba
Hunt In: Anderson County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoof View Post
Good explanation muddy. I have had good luck with 340 FMJ's cut to 27.25" with a 28 inch draw length, pulling 65 pounds. 125 g heads.
Are you using a regular insert or a heavy brass insert?
Katch66 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-17-2019, 01:19 PM   #9
HighwayHunter
Ten Point
 
HighwayHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Default

Iíd go with a 300 spine axis 5mm with 50 grain brass inserts. I shoot 260 Axis with 50 grains, total weight of 535 and at 68lbs 31.5Ē arrow Iím almost underspined. The brass really changed the game for the better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
HighwayHunter is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-17-2019, 02:37 PM   #10
Stoof
Pope & Young
 
Stoof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wimberley
Hunt In: Will work for hunts.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katch66 View Post
Are you using a regular insert or a heavy brass insert?
Just the HIT inserts they come with. I have some brass inserts that I plan to play with but need to order new shafts.
Stoof is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-20-2019, 11:23 AM   #11
Katch66
Ten Point
 
Katch66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montalba
Hunt In: Anderson County
Default

I want to try some heavy field points and try to tweak my gold tips. Does anyone have a 150 gr and 175 gr field point i can buy? I will pay for the points and shipping. I just don't want to buy a couple dozen field points that I won't use after building my arrow.
Katch66 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-20-2019, 11:57 AM   #12
cwd500
Ten Point
 
cwd500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Sour Lake, Tx
Hunt In: Sour Lake, Tx Hardin Co.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katch66 View Post
I want to try some heavy field points and try to tweak my gold tips. Does anyone have a 150 gr and 175 gr field point i can buy? I will pay for the points and shipping. I just don't want to buy a couple dozen field points that I won't use after building my arrow.
You can get heavy field points on eBay pretty cheap.

Sent from my XT1687 using Tapatalk
cwd500 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-21-2019, 10:26 AM   #13
Rat
Ten Point
 
Rat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bertram
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katch66 View Post
I want to try some heavy field points and try to tweak my gold tips. Does anyone have a 150 gr and 175 gr field point i can buy? I will pay for the points and shipping. I just don't want to buy a couple dozen field points that I won't use after building my arrow.
If you REALLY want to keep your current arrows.
1) Cut them down as much as possible.
2) Use the F.A.C.T. weight system from Gold Tip to add weight or go to ethics archery and get a sampler of their field tips.
3) Ditch the blazer vanes and go with Ryzer feathers, this will give you both a stiffer dynamic reaction and about 1-2% more FOC.

I would have to run it through a ballistic program, but just by experience I believe you an get those .340 to tune and shoot well with added weight, even 100 gr more added weight.

Or you can start fresh and build the arrow you want from the ground up.
.300 spine Gold Tip Velocity, 100 gr brass, 125 gr tip, choice of vane now, you can use blazers if you want and not mess with feathers. With your draw length this will yield close to a 500 gr arrow at 18-20% FOC and have enough spine to use heavier broadheads if you want to go that route eventually.
Rat is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-21-2019, 10:38 AM   #14
Dynamic1
Four Point
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rockport
Default

If you are using gold tips you can just pull the knock, and try different weights that screw into the back on the insert with their wrench. You can easily experiment with different weight options. Even I can do it so I'm sure you can!
Dynamic1 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-21-2019, 10:43 PM   #15
Katch66
Ten Point
 
Katch66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montalba
Hunt In: Anderson County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat View Post
If you REALLY want to keep your current arrows.
1) Cut them down as much as possible.
2) Use the F.A.C.T. weight system from Gold Tip to add weight or go to ethics archery and get a sampler of their field tips.
3) Ditch the blazer vanes and go with Ryzer feathers, this will give you both a stiffer dynamic reaction and about 1-2% more FOC.

I would have to run it through a ballistic program, but just by experience I believe you an get those .340 to tune and shoot well with added weight, even 100 gr more added weight.

Or you can start fresh and build the arrow you want from the ground up.
.300 spine Gold Tip Velocity, 100 gr brass, 125 gr tip, choice of vane now, you can use blazers if you want and not mess with feathers. With your draw length this will yield close to a 500 gr arrow at 18-20% FOC and have enough spine to use heavier broadheads if you want to go that route eventually.
Thanks for the info Rat. I would probably be better off just building with new arrows. Would the Velocity be your pick of arrow? I would prefer to stay with a 100 gr BH because I have so many. Would I need to cut the 300's shorter than 28"? Thanks in advance.
Katch66 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-22-2019, 10:42 AM   #16
Rat
Ten Point
 
Rat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bertram
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katch66 View Post
Thanks for the info Rat. I would probably be better off just building with new arrows. Would the Velocity be your pick of arrow? I would prefer to stay with a 100 gr BH because I have so many. Would I need to cut the 300's shorter than 28"? Thanks in advance.
Yes, the Velocity would be my pick, that's what I use; Black Eagle would be my second pick. I built Black Eagle arrows last year and shot them, they are good arrows just not as durable as Gold Tip in my experience.

Plus, with Gold Tip you can use all proprietary components, brass inserts, pin bushings, pin nocks all made by Gold Tip. Black Eagle doesn't have everything and you will have to go with a third party for brass insert over 75 gr.

28" will be fine, I think mine are 28" or maybe 28 1/4". Too stiff is fine, within reason, it recovers faster and is just as easy to tune, I prefer my arrows to be a little stiff based on the ballistic program.
Rat is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 01-22-2019, 04:33 PM   #17
Katch66
Ten Point
 
Katch66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montalba
Hunt In: Anderson County
Default

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Katch66 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1999-2012, TexasBowhunter.com