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Old 01-18-2023, 11:59 AM   #1
Brush to Bay
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Default New ATF Pistol Brace Ruling

Please be aware of the pistol brace ruling from the ATF. Anyone owning these will need to register it as a Class 3 SBR, convert it to a rifle, or destroy it. 120 day days from January 13 th is the grace period until it becomes illegal in its current configuration . Click the link to see the info:

https://www.silencershop.com/blog/po...1GJiKu6jGmPMl0
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Old 01-18-2023, 12:02 PM   #2
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https://discussions.texasbowhunter.c...d.php?t=862020
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Old 01-18-2023, 12:57 PM   #3
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It's 120 days from publication. It was signed on the 13th. It has not yet been published.
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Old 01-18-2023, 12:59 PM   #4
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I predict an uptick in boating accidents.


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Old 01-18-2023, 01:04 PM   #5
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It will not stand up to any legal challenges...
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Old 01-18-2023, 01:39 PM   #6
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It's 120 days from publication. It was signed on the 13th. It has not yet been published.

Bingo


Sierracharlie out....
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Old 01-18-2023, 01:54 PM   #7
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Did I read that you can register it at no cost during the 120 day period? If so you can essentially make it a SBR and avoid the tax. But if the below VVVV occurs and it does not pass legal muster, then you have willingly and needlessly registered a weapon with the fed gov



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It will not stand up to any legal challenges...
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Old 01-18-2023, 02:03 PM   #8
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Did I read that you can register it at no cost during the 120 day period? If so you can essentially make it a SBR and avoid the tax. But if the below VVVV occurs and it does not pass legal muster, then you have willingly and needlessly registered a weapon with the fed gov


No cost besides admitting to an agency with a not so great track record of being upstanding people that you committed a crime and are in possession of an "illegal" firearm.
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Old 01-18-2023, 02:07 PM   #9
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No cost besides admitting to an agency with a not so great track record of being upstanding people that you committed a crime and are in possession of an "illegal" firearm.
No crime was committed, they just changed the rules mid game. Which I suppose in retrospect tells you all you need to know about the character and morals of the agency you are about to offer unnecessary data to
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Old 01-18-2023, 02:24 PM   #10
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guess mine are destroyed...
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Old 01-18-2023, 02:31 PM   #11
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Funny to me. This administration wants to take out our rights for multiple semi autos and braced pistols. They also just said that to compete with the US government we’d need nukes. Well why take away from us if we need nukes and tanks. Freaking joke. Come and take them. I don’t own a single gun registered in my name.
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Old 01-20-2023, 04:06 PM   #12
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It's 120 days from publication. It was signed on the 13th. It has not yet been published.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justi...s-used-convert



https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regula...ilizing-braces


It was published in the Federal Register on Jan 13.^^^^
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Old 01-20-2023, 04:10 PM   #13
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I was pretty sure this day would come so a few years ago I just went and got a sbr tax stamp for a couple of my lowers so I didnt have to fool with the brace.
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Old 01-20-2023, 04:15 PM   #14
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This is me when it comes to the information in this post
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Old 01-20-2023, 04:38 PM   #15
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Has it been officially published or just noted somewhere? Because as of the 18th is was not..

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Old 01-20-2023, 04:48 PM   #16
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No cost besides admitting to an agency with a not so great track record of being upstanding people that you committed a crime and are in possession of an "illegal" firearm.
So since you register the actual weapon as an SBR and not the brace. Could you just register any weapon as an SBR for free and say it has a brace??? I may be completely misunderstanding this.
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Old 01-20-2023, 06:43 PM   #17
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I heard it has to be a pistol brace first...no registering your stack of 20 lowers lol
Arfcom saying you are admitting to a felony...
Millions of submissions will tie up the stamp approval process by...years and years?
Let’s not forget the AFT has no problem burning women and children alive
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Old 01-20-2023, 06:44 PM   #18
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No. The AG signed it on the 13th. It has yet to be published.
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Old 01-20-2023, 06:46 PM   #19
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I heard it has to be a pistol brace first...no registering your stack of 20 lowers lol
Arfcom saying you are admitting to a felony...
Millions of submissions will tie up the stamp approval process by...years and years?
Let’s not forget the AFT has no problem burning women and children alive
They are claiming they hired and trained more examiners so the approval process for other forms doesn't slow .


As for the admitting to a felony, you for sure are. If they have decided the gun you have is an SBR and you go to register it, you are admitting you have been in possession of an unregistered SBR.
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Old 01-20-2023, 07:25 PM   #20
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Don't do it !
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Old 01-20-2023, 08:42 PM   #21
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Quote:
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They are claiming they hired and trained more examiners so the approval process for other forms doesn't slow .


As for the admitting to a felony, you for sure are. If they have decided the gun you have is an SBR and you go to register it, you are admitting you have been in possession of an unregistered SBR.

https://youtu.be/DggOmUXxVWY


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Old 01-20-2023, 09:13 PM   #22
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Where are our politicians that claimed to be 2A to get elected?
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Old 01-20-2023, 09:18 PM   #23
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Where are our politicians that claimed to be 2A to get elected?
Haha “our,” you’re funny...probably busy banging Chinese honey pots
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Old 01-21-2023, 03:44 PM   #24
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No crime was committed, they just changed the rules mid game. Which I suppose in retrospect tells you all you need to know about the character and morals of the agency you are about to offer unnecessary data to
Incorrect. Sort of. So you send these fools all of your information as well as pictures as proof that you already own the gun. The “I got you” part of it is when after 120 days these snowflakes still haven’t given you their blessing, you now have in your possession something that is illegal. We all know that it would take them years to process all of the applications for approval. AND you’ve already proved their case for them by sending them pictures of it. Aside from that, there are so many other legal issues with it that I don’t think it will ever see the light of day. But they’ll keep on trying.

Last edited by PVDT; 01-21-2023 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 01-21-2023, 04:07 PM   #25
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It’s a trap no way they can process that many in 120 days over 40 million owners in the public
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Old 01-22-2023, 01:49 PM   #26
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It’s a trap no way they can process that many in 120 days over 40 million owners in the public

Are they going to arrest 40 million of us and put us in prison?

I’m not sure what will happen but there’s no way they can imprison 10 % of the country for this.
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Old 01-22-2023, 04:19 PM   #27
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I thought I read you only had to apply by the deadline, not receive approval and all.
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Old 01-22-2023, 05:02 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
https://youtu.be/DggOmUXxVWY


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Great video
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Old 01-22-2023, 05:51 PM   #29
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Are they going to arrest 40 million of us and put us in prison?

I’m not sure what will happen but there’s no way they can imprison 10 % of the country for this.
Hiring about 2 million new federal correctional officers would be a great jobs program…. not to mention potentially millions of temporary construction jobs to build thousands of new prisons.
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Old 01-22-2023, 07:25 PM   #30
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Are they going to arrest 40 million of us and put us in prison?

I’m not sure what will happen but there’s no way they can imprison 10 % of the country for this.
Don't put it past the Democrats to try and lock up a huge chunk of R voters and/or make them felons unable to vote.
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Old 01-22-2023, 08:02 PM   #31
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Don't put it past the Democrats to try and lock up a huge chunk of R voters and/or make them felons unable to vote.
yeah no kidding... you know how we said we'd do an automatic permitting? we changed our minds... you're all automatic felons. Good way to remove 30 million gun voters from the polls.
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Old 01-22-2023, 09:39 PM   #32
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Hiring about 2 million new federal correctional officers would be a great jobs program…. not to mention potentially millions of temporary construction jobs to build thousands of new prisons.
They would need more than that. Plus all the business the funeral homes, cemeteries etc. would get.

Maybe this whole thing is just the latest stimulus package.
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:27 PM   #33
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yeah no kidding... you know how we said we'd do an automatic permitting? we changed our minds... you're all automatic felons. Good way to remove 30 million gun voters from the polls.
Except for 26 USC 5848…….
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:30 PM   #34
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I thought I read you only had to apply by the deadline, not receive approval and all.
That is likely correct (from the statute that I posted above) but it won’t play well in this forum.
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:58 PM   #35
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Except for 26 USC 5848…….

Kind of like there’s no national gun registry but somehow the ATF can easily find people and ask them about specific guns they bought
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Old 01-22-2023, 11:13 PM   #36
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Kind of like there’s no national gun registry but somehow the ATF can easily find people and ask them about specific guns they bought
Every person should know that there is a record if you walk into Academy, complete a 4473 and walk out with a firearm. That isn’t new or hidden.
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Old 01-23-2023, 09:53 AM   #37
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Every person should know that there is a record if you walk into Academy, complete a 4473 and walk out with a firearm. That isn’t new or hidden.

Seems like everyone knows they’re keeping tabs on every new gun sale except them.

They are 100% keeping this information in a database. Why won’t they just admit it? All the info is given when Calling in for a background check. There’s no way they type that info in and don’t keep it in a database where data can be sorted by whatever field they would like to see.

County, city, state, social…. I'm sure we've all seen the videos of ATF agents "just checking" at several person's homes. How does that fit in to #3? unless whatever they would like to check is a criminal investigation now. especially ghost gun home made SBRs


arguments aside, I'm not sure what to do. destroy my guns, apply for the permit which multiple lawyers are advising both for and against, or just do nothing and hope it's over tunred like the bump stock ban.

one thing is for certain, the ATF is about as trustworthy as a drug addict selling clean used needles in the ghetto




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Last edited by kyle1974; 01-23-2023 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 01-23-2023, 11:24 AM   #38
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Seems like everyone knows they’re keeping tabs on every new gun sale except them.

They are 100% keeping this information in a database. Why won’t they just admit it? All the info is given when Calling in for a background check. There’s no way they type that info in and don’t keep it in a database where data can be sorted by whatever field they would like to see.

County, city, state, social…. I'm sure we've all seen the videos of ATF agents "just checking" at several person's homes. How does that fit in to #3? unless whatever they would like to check is a criminal investigation now. especially ghost gun home made SBRs


arguments aside, I'm not sure what to do. destroy my guns, apply for the permit which multiple lawyers are advising both for and against, or just do nothing and hope it's over tunred like the bump stock ban.

one thing is for certain, the ATF is about as trustworthy as a drug addict selling clean used needles in the ghetto




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They have admitted it in Congressional hearings. They are getting away with it because they claim it isn't searchable.
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Old 01-23-2023, 11:34 AM   #39
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They have admitted it in Congressional hearings. They are getting away with it because they claim it isn't searchable.

LOL. i have been working with databases for almost 20 years. It’s laughable for them to suggest ANY database doesn’t have a “search” feature.

At a minimum they can export the data to excel and search easily.
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Old 01-23-2023, 12:01 PM   #40
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LOL. i have been working with databases for almost 20 years. It’s laughable for them to suggest ANY database doesn’t have a “search” feature.

At a minimum they can export the data to excel and search easily.
what kind of information is in this database and how is it reported?

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Old 01-23-2023, 12:09 PM   #41
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IF it is searchable, then they only know if the transferee acquired a pistol, long gun or other / receiver as that is the 411 FFL's give to NICS...they would need seize the entire 4473 to know the make, model & SN.

Most 4473's where a LTC was given are not reported to NICS.
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Old 01-23-2023, 12:27 PM   #42
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what kind of information is in this database and how is it reported?

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Good question.

How much information does the government have on you, me or anyone else? They probably know more about us than we do about ourselves.

are you suggesting the government doesn't know what a database is, and they take in all this information and just hit the delete key after they hang the phone up?

or are you suggesting because I can't post a screenshot to whatever database the ATF keeps on these items that it doesn't exist?

Last edited by kyle1974; 01-23-2023 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 01-23-2023, 12:28 PM   #43
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IF it is searchable, then they only know if the transferee acquired a pistol, long gun or other / receiver as that is the 411 FFL's give to NICS...they would need seize the entire 4473 to know the make, model & SN.

Most 4473's where a LTC was given are not reported to NICS.

When a background check is called in, don’t they give the serial number of the gun along with the purchaser’s info? (SS #, DL #, etc)

last gun I bought; I could have sworn I heard the salesman giving them that info.

Last edited by kyle1974; 01-23-2023 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 01-23-2023, 12:40 PM   #44
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Nor serial numbers are given !
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Old 01-23-2023, 12:41 PM   #45
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When a background check is called in, don’t they give the serial number of the gun along with the purchaser’s info? (SS #, DL #, etc)

last gun I bought; I could have sworn I heard the salesman giving them that info.
I thought so too, even with my LTC I could swear the Academy people read off the serial number when calling it in. It's been a while though.
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Old 01-23-2023, 12:43 PM   #46
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Negative on any 411 regarding the firearm itself other than pistol, long gun or other...the only time that happens is when you have a multiple firearm purchase when buying two or more handguns & certain long gun sales like AR's / AK's for the four border states. (thank you fast & furious) One copy goes to ATF & the other to CLEO in your area.

SS is optional
DL is affirmative & We are now also required to give residential 411 if you get a delay to assist the background...all of this rolled out due to Uvalde.

Last edited by Artos; 01-23-2023 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 01-23-2023, 12:48 PM   #47
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SS is optional
DL is affirmative & We are now also required to give residential 411 if you get a delay to assist the background...all of this rolled out due to Uvalde.
“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before.” ― Rahm Emanuel
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Old 01-23-2023, 12:55 PM   #48
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IF it is searchable, then they only know if the transferee acquired a pistol, long gun or other / receiver as that is the 411 FFL's give to NICS...they would need seize the entire 4473 to know the make, model & SN.

Most 4473's where a LTC was given are not reported to NICS.
Correct. If I remember correctly, the issue that arose via whistleblower was that they were keeping massive files with PDFs of 4473s that they were obtaining by taking pictures during audits. This is what they claim isn't searchable. I believe there were allegations of a readily available file with a toggle switch for a search function.


Not to mention what we learned from the 80% and form 1 silencer debacle which is they will just threaten retailers, manufacturers and use willing credit card companies to obtain the information they want.

Last edited by Clay C; 01-23-2023 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 01-23-2023, 01:40 PM   #49
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Correct. If I remember correctly, the issue that arose via whistleblower was that they were keeping massive files with PDFs of 4473s that they were obtaining by taking pictures during audits. This is what they claim isn't searchable. I believe there were allegations of a readily available file with a toggle switch for a search function.


Not to mention what we learned from the 80% and form 1 silencer debacle which is they will just threaten retailers, manufacturers and use willing credit card companies to obtain the information they want.
and anyone who's used PDF writer knows it has a search/find function. You can combine endless PDF's together, then search.

this is the digital equivalent of "I didn't inhale" LOL
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Old 01-23-2023, 01:57 PM   #50
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and anyone who's used PDF writer knows it has a search/find function. You can combine endless PDF's together, then search.

this is the digital equivalent of "I didn't inhale" LOL
so it's not a database, it is a PDF that is searchable? or have they already searched the PDF's and put that information into a database?

just trying to make sure the inaccurate information we spread is accurate. haha.

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