What happened - Draw Tags?!?!

[Raypo]

I, like a lot of you, put in for many tags across the lower 48. In fact, I put in for most of the Western States and and spend hundreds of hours in research. At one time, a few years back, I would always pop at least one tag. NOT ANYMORE! Colorado has just turned into a joke (along with the Texas draw, except for you Doc). I use to curse the no preference point states like NM, but maybe they had it right.

It is truly a lottery anymore.

I might add that my Africa trip is already toast for the year (suppose to leave tomorrow), and now my Alaska Moose is falling a part due to work travel restrictions. Sigh...

[Radar]

My trip to Africa is out this year, I called my outfitter in NM to see what a early archery season landowner tag would cost. He found one for 8500.00 in Unit 34, I offered 6500.00 and they laughed at me, Lol. Of course that does not include guide fees. I might have to stay in Texas and do a free roam Elk hunt or a couple exotic hunts.

[diamond10x]

Keep your head up, you’ll probably draw too many tags next year

I haven’t had any issues drawing tags in other states but I’m building points in all states and work the second choice tags so I can still hunt out of state for much cheaper than paying for landowner tags. I’m in the limbo in most states where I can draw undesirable units for sure and burn my points or try for best/better units and more than likely not draw anything.

[Dc78]

Guide called me too for NM 34, have LO tag for $8500. I said your crazy!!!!

[El General]

If you used to draw a bunch of tags and now you don’t, isn’t this just the probabilities catching up with you?

[WItoTX]

Lol, well you need to know how each state works. NM and ID are true lotteries (All states should be but I digress), Colorado is a preference point, AZ and WY has both preference points and bonus points, along with Montana.

If you play the same units every where, odds are going to change over time. Each year I pick new units based on how odds change in each unit. Over time you can see trends and know which ones are available.

Not to mention the numerous OTC tags in states like CO and ID.

[WyoBull]

It is getting a lot more difficult to draw tags here in Wyoming as well. As a resident, I have drawn one special permit elk tag in the last 11 years and it was a late season tag. This year, the only thing I drew was an Antelope tag.

I know it is different here for residents as we don't have preference points for Elk, Deer and Antelope like the non-residents do but I feel I am going to have to support resident preference points if it gains traction. I have many, many friends that are avid hunters and we all draw very few tags so it is frustrating. That's why I mostly focus on varmint hunting.

[wytex]

WyoBull I would much rather have a true random draw than PP for us residents. You have no chance at tag in a PP system unless you have some PP. Random for residents is just fine with me.
We need more of the tag quota for residents, imo. No offense NR, just give us more tags in the draw.

[Radar]

It is getting a lot more difficult to draw tags here in Wyoming as well. As a resident, I have drawn one special permit elk tag in the last 11 years and it was a late season tag. This year, the only thing I drew was an Antelope tag.

I know it is different here for residents as we don't have preference points for Elk, Deer and Antelope like the non-residents do but I feel I am going to have to support resident preference points if it gains traction. I have many, many friends that are avid hunters and we all draw very few tags so it is frustrating. That's why I mostly focus on varmint hunting.

WyoBull I would much rather have a true random draw than PP for us residents. You have no chance at tag in a PP system unless you have some PP. Random for residents is just fine with me.
We need more of the tag quota for residents, imo. No offense NR, just give us more tags in the draw.

You fellas from Wyoming got a lead on an archery pronghorn hunt outfitter?

[ladrones]

The welfare system that the guides, outfitters and landowners lobbied for and received is driving the prices up here in NM. The greed they are infected with is insatiable. The good thing for them is they have plenty of people with the egos to pay the price.


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[quackadikt]

It is getting a lot more difficult to draw tags here in Wyoming as well. As a resident, I have drawn one special permit elk tag in the last 11 years and it was a late season tag. This year, the only thing I drew was an Antelope tag.

I know it is different here for residents as we don't have preference points for Elk, Deer and Antelope like the non-residents do but I feel I am going to have to support resident preference points if it gains traction. I have many, many friends that are avid hunters and we all draw very few tags so it is frustrating. That's why I mostly focus on varmint hunting.

Don't residents have plenty of OTC/General tag options in Wyoming?

The welfare system that the guides, outfitters and landowners lobbied for and received is driving the prices up here in NM. The greed they are infected with is insatiable. The good thing for them is they have plenty of people with the egos to pay the price.


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This is the truth. The other thing that they fail to see, is if NM opened the pool up to a straight 84/16, guides would have a larger client pool to go after. NM really, really screwed up by not allowing NR to draw cow tags too. It made them way harder for a resident to draw, and ran the price of a landowner cow tag up to ridiculous amounts.

[Radar]

The welfare system that the guides, outfitters and landowners lobbied for and received is driving the prices up here in NM. The greed they are infected with is insatiable. The good thing for them is they have plenty of people with the egos to pay the price.


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When he told me 8500.00 for the landowner tag, I just asked if he thought he could get that much out of one and he said yes. I told him if no one took it I would buy it for 6500.00 and he just laughed at me.

[Raypo]

Lol, well you need to know how each state works. NM and ID are true lotteries (All states should be but I digress), Colorado is a preference point, AZ and WY has both preference points and bonus points, along with Montana.

If you play the same units every where, odds are going to change over time. Each year I pick new units based on how odds change in each unit. Over time you can see trends and know which ones are available.

Not to mention the numerous OTC tags in states like CO and ID.

I agree and I’m not sure there are many people that understand the draws better than I do. I understand the species and units I put in for are popular, and therefore making my odds not so favorable. However, just the sheer unpredictable amount of increased entry’s makes it everything wacky. Example: I’ve been putting in for the same mule deer tag for 6 years. After the 2nd year (1 preference point) the odds to draw was well over 50%, based on the previous years statistics. Each year the odds of drawing increased substantially, and again based on previous year entry’s. Even this year I had the most preference points in the unit and season and did not draw. Drawing good tags on public land, is just simply harder.

[Raypo]

If you used to draw a bunch of tags and now you don’t, isn’t this just the probabilities catching up with you?

No, it is a changing draw system that drives more entry’s and/or changes the resident ratios. For example: in CO with no upfront tag cost for sheep/moose/goat the entry’s have went way up. Now if you want a chance at all, you need to pay $100 for a preference point that really doesn’t even change your odds, unless you put in for 500 years.

[Raypo]

My trip to Africa is out this year, I called my outfitter in NM to see what a early archery season landowner tag would cost. He found one for 8500.00 in Unit 34, I offered 6500.00 and they laughed at me, Lol. Of course that does not include guide fees. I might have to stay in Texas and do a free roam Elk hunt or a couple exotic hunts.

Pretty average NM elk and deer hunts anymore. I’ve been trying to find a fall hunt or 2 to replace what I have lost. $10k for a mule Deer is just crazy. I’d rather get a 2nd draw tag and take my chances.