Survey/Deer Density

[Encinal]

Im confused what the size of the property is... what was surveyed... and what he/she based the recommendation on.

Do you have 3600 acres and you only flew 2300?

As to changing biologists because they arent telling you what you want to hear...

That's a road to nowhere.

Work to UNDERSTAND what the biologist is telling you. If you can't make sense of it, seek additional help, but just changing because you don't like his harvest number isn't going to lead you to any greater understanding of your deer herd.

If you are going to shoot what you are going to shoot, its probably best to just do that and not have a biologist for a while unless your goals change.

[buck_wild]

You say S Tx but what part? I noticed you get feed in Beeville so thinking maybe you are closer to that area maybe. IF you are, your fawn survival rate seems low for this year. We are in San Pat/Refugio area and we are estimating a 60% (or higher) fawn survival this year.

[Chuckfu]

One deer to roughly 15 acres is not a bad deer density. Heavily fed ranches can hold one deer to 5-7 acres or if not fed as heavy can hold one deer to 20 acres. It varies with the brush/browse on your property and how much you feed. Water is a major factor in the number of deer you can hold. It will also help with protein consumption if close to a feed station.

Questions:
Do you have plenty of water and is it close to your feed stations?
Do you have more than one feeder at each feed location?
What kind of feeders are you using?

We are never without water. But I do think we should add some. We have 6 tanks that are fed from a well. There are also small watering stations around.
Water is close to most of the protein. We could move the ones that aren’t closer. Good idea.

All protein feeders are free choice type. There is only 1 feeder per location.

Thanks for all the Advice keep it coming

[Chuckfu]

You say S Tx but what part? I noticed you get feed in Beeville so thinking maybe you are closer to that area maybe. IF you are, your fawn survival rate seems low for this year. We are in San Pat/Refugio area and we are estimating a 60% (or higher) fawn survival this year.

We had a bad drought this year is all can think of on the fawn survival.
We are south west of Hebbronville.

[SaintBlaise]

It's a head scratch'r. Let's do the math. You have 244 deer, let's say 25% of the herd are bred does, that would be 61 fawns every year. Possibly having 30 deer aged 6.5 years to hunt for every year. He only's wants you to shoot 18 deer...hmmm

[Chuckfu]

Im confused what the size of the property is... what was surveyed... and what he/she based the recommendation on.

Do you have 3600 acres and you only flew 2300?

As to changing biologists because they arent telling you what you want to hear...

That's a road to nowhere.

Work to UNDERSTAND what the biologist is telling you. If you can't make sense of it, seek additional help, but just changing because you don't like his harvest number isn't going to lead you to any greater understanding of your deer herd.

If you are going to shoot what you are going to shoot, its probably best to just do that and not have a biologist for a while unless your goals change.

There is 3600 under HF. They flew the entire ranch. Since the grid lines were spaced as they were he land surveyed was 2300 or whatever it was.

We are going to sit down and discuss with the biologist.

I will add the lines from gps

[Big Mike M]

We are never without water. But I do think we should add some. We have 6 tanks that are fed from a well. There are also small watering stations around.
Water is close to most of the protein. We could move the ones that aren’t closer. Good idea.

All protein feeders are free choice type. There is only 1 feeder per location.

Thanks for all the Advice keep it coming

Here some things I would recommend.

- Add another protein or cottonseed feeder at each location. This will give all the bachelor group of bucks a chance to eat while at the feed location. I have seen in the past where 8-10 bucks will come into a feed station and only the dominate buck will eat protein. He will hog the one feeder that is there. Once he is done, they will all leave together. We have a cottonseed feeder next to everyone of our protein feeders. The deer will go back and forth to each feeder while when they come in together.

- Put feed stations close to water. They will eat and digest more feed if close to water. The Bee CoOp protein may not be the issue with consumption. The lack of feeders is probably the issue. We feed L&E and our deer love it.

- A lot of people are adding minerals close to water. I haven't tried this yet but considering it for next year.

- Another major factor to your bad fawn crop is predators. Trap or snare every predator you can year round. We hammered the predators last winter and our fawn crop is really good this year even though we had a drought year until recently. Almost every doe I saw last weekend had a fawn or two with her.

[Chuckfu]

Here some things I would recommend.

- Add another protein or cottonseed feeder at each location. This will give all the bachelor group of bucks a chance to eat while at the feed location. I have seen in the past where 8-10 bucks will come into a feed station and only the dominate buck will eat protein. He will hog the one feeder that is there. Once he is done, they will all leave together. We have a cottonseed feeder next to everyone of our protein feeders. The deer will go back and forth to each feeder while when they come in together.

- Put feed stations close to water. They will eat and digest more feed if close to water. The Bee CoOp protein may not be the issue with consumption. The lack of feeders is probably the issue. We feed L&E and our deer love it.

- A lot of people are adding minerals close to water. I haven't tried this yet but considering it for next year.

- Another major factor to your bad fawn crop is predators. Trap or snare every predator you can year round. We hammered the predators last winter and our fawn crop is really good this year even though we had a drought year until recently. Almost every doe I saw last weekend had a fawn or two with her.

This is all good stuff.
I can see the dominate bucks on camera for sure. Most of which in my eyes need to go so the big deer have a chance to flourish.
The co-op is 20% feed. For the price it is delivered to the ranch it’s hard to beat.
This is our second year on the place. We haven’t tried cotton seed yet. The owner said the deer didn’t take to it very well in the past.

I have a thermal. We are going to try and get some predators next week.

Thanks for taking the time. I appreciate it

[BrokenJ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on the estimated population he has is 112 bucks. The would be the 73 bucks counted / by the 2300 acres flown then that number (.0317) x by 3600 to give you 114 estimated bucks on property. In no way or shape is that the acutal number of deer. There is always a error calculated in depending on weather conditions brush density number of observers on and on and on. 50 or 60 percent viewed is a safe number with some saying only 33 percent are seen on average. I have a degree in range and wildlife and have flown plenty of surveys and helped managed multiple properties and I have never ran raw numbers to make harvest and management decision off of.

Also if you don't have a trapping program (snares) I would recommend getting one in place, property I help manage has a program in place on the high fence. 4000 acres and on average we snare 70 coyotes a year and kill a few more from blinds.

[txwhitetail]

What have the past 3 years of surveys and harvest #s looked like?

[txwhitetail]

I have a degree in range and wildlife and have flown plenty of surveys and helped managed multiple properties and I have never ran raw numbers to make harvest and management decision off of.

You should if the surveys and harvest numbers have been consistent over a time frame. Padding the numbers with whatever number you want to pull out of the sky isn't a great management plan either. (Not saying either one is totally correct).

[BrokenJ]

You should if the surveys and harvest numbers have been consistent over a time frame. Padding the numbers with whatever number you want to pull out of the sky isn't a great management plan either. (Not saying either one is totally correct).

Can't act like you see every deer from the air. Also every properties different and helicopter surveys are full of variables you make the percentage call due to many factors and most ranches stick with it for consistency and base it against other surveys. It's one of many tools you can use. Blind surveys are as good as any.

[Chuckfu]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on the estimated population he has is 112 bucks. The would be the 73 bucks counted / by the 2300 acres flown then that number (.0317) x by 3600 to give you 114 estimated bucks on property. In no way or shape is that the acutal number of deer. There is always a error calculated in depending on weather conditions brush density number of observers on and on and on. 50 or 60 percent viewed is a safe number with some saying only 33 percent are seen on average. I have a degree in range and wildlife and have flown plenty of surveys and helped managed multiple properties and I have never ran raw numbers to make harvest and management decision off of.

Also if you don't have a trapping program (snares) I would recommend getting one in place, property I help manage has a program in place on the high fence. 4000 acres and on average we snare 70 coyotes a year and kill a few more from blinds.

That is a big number.

Last year I thought we had more than seen. Last year I counted more than a hundred Corning roads and riding.

[Chuckfu]

What have the past 3 years of surveys and harvest #s looked like?

The only one I have is last year and this year.

I will see if I can get more.

[Chuckfu]

2014 & 2016