Time for adult arrows....

[IkemanTX]

looking at the 300 spine shots. this alone tells me his bow is set up incorrectly.
this means at this point everything he is doing is wrong.

IkemanTx. Whoever is telling you how to use this test kit doesn't understand what is going on. you need to step back and set your bow correctly.

So enlighten me...
Why is the 250 shooting well at 8’ and 3’ paper tuned shots when the 300 isn’t?


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[Abu_dude]

A bad shot is a bad shot. Doesn’t matter the reason. Nobody goes out and intentionally makes a bad shot. Animals move, misjudge yardage, get antsy, pull the shot, hit a limb etc. the end result is the same.

You are right, a bad shot is a bad shot. However, the end result isn't always the same. Having COC broadheads and a heavier FOC arrow allows you to punch through potential problem spots that lighter arrows with a flapper on the front would have a lesser chance of getting through.

[panhandlehunter]

I believe people do go out and intentionally make bad shots, just look at how many posts there are about wanting setups to brake shoulder joints. Being able to “ safety” take frontal, head on shots. Not being concerned if they are off a little or or the animal isn’t in perfect position. I understand bad shots happen, but a lot go in thinking their” heavy” setup will make bad shots, good shots. I think that is why a number of people are switching to heavier arrows, it’s pretty obvious when you read enough posts.

I agree with you 100%.

[panhandlehunter]

You are right, a bad shot is a bad shot. However, the end result isn't always the same. Having COC broadheads and a heavier FOC arrow allows you to punch through potential problem spots that lighter arrows with a flapper on the front would have a lesser chance of getting through.

Im in the camp of you need to practice more, be patient, and be willing to let one walk away. If you want to kill a deer every time you see one, put the bow down and pick up the gun. A heavy arrow makes a bad shot, a bad shot with a heavy arrow. Lol. There are only few circumstances where the weight of the arrow would make any difference, and they are all taking marginal shots. My wife gets pass throughs pulling 41#s with Rage broadheads.

[Low Fence]

I believe people do go out and intentionally make bad shots, just look at how many posts there are about wanting setups to brake shoulder joints. Being able to “ safety” take frontal, head on shots. Not being concerned if they are off a little or or the animal isn’t in perfect position. I understand bad shots happen, but a lot go in thinking their” heavy” setup will make bad shots, good shots. I think that is why a number of people are switching to heavier arrows, it’s pretty obvious when you read enough posts.

I don’t want this thread to derail, and if I were smarter I’d post a gif of someone clapping for this

I honestly think good ol “Dr” had the best of all intentions with this information. But it has spurred a movement with new (inexperienced) and some older archers that are responsible for more wounded animals that the top 5 worst mechanical broadheads combined.

Numbers are great tools to measure a result.... but mean absolutely $&@% on an animal. I can say that because of hundreds of personal experiences that prove middle of road is more than enough even on “tough” angles.

I enjoy tinkering from tine to time but this notion that you can’t kill a deer without x,y,z is laughable... actually sad when it has no merit to show more lethal than the hundreds of animals I’ve killed

[Low Fence]

Im in the camp of you need to practice more, be patient, and be willing to let one walk away. If you want to kill a deer every time you see one, put the bow down and pick up the gun. A heavy arrow makes a bad shot, a bad shot with a heavy arrow. Lol. There are only few circumstances where the weight of the arrow would make any difference, and they are all taking marginal shots. My wife gets pass throughs pulling 41#s with Rage broadheads.

Again


X2

[critter69]

" But i pass through on all my shots with 375gn and a mechanical head"

just wanted to point out that the shooting both dots on the picture are not the same yet mechanical manufacturers recommend shooting the blue dot....wonder why?


[ATTACH]992841[/ATTACH]

What , I have shot a lot of mech. and never ever heard this ! Where did you read it ? And I have never had or seen a mech. fail, or fail to to pass through when shot any where near the green dot. I have seen two different fixed heads loose blades on braking the onside ribs, and failing in both the blades and pass through department. And I’ve seen many many shot with everything thing from really light to extremely heavy setups.

[enewman]

That's what I meant

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I'm just giving you a hard time. been at the desk al day.

[critter69]

... so by physics standards: if I shoot a deer in the brisket head on and it doesn’t exit the balloon knot... it was the arrows fault?

I’ll take the blame for every animal I’ve lost. 100% were due to shot placement. No 25-100000 gr would have made a difference.


And IF we are talking; deer & hogs WITH modern compounds it’s all personal flavor. If you can’t kill em with that.... it ain’t the physics

Perfect flight with the least amount of bandaids possible and an adequate SHARP broadhead will win

Again. The truth is in the middle. But you do you and I won’t hate

I know where your coming from, I remember back in the overdraw days shooting the shortest, lightest arrow we could. I don’t recall having any issues with pass throughs even back then. Bows were slower and much nosier then they are today. Tuning seemed it was much harder back then, but once you got the flight right we never had issues. Now with the faster, more efficient, quieter, less vibration bows we can shoot arrows with far more authority then those by gone days. I see the biggest advantage with “ heavier” arrows the noise is less. Tuning is generally easier. But I’ve seen issues with to heavy of arrows also. It’s crazy we killed anything back then when you read some of these posts. No way moose and African animals should have ever died back then. But some how they did, and still do.

[enewman]

So enlighten me...
Why is the 250 shooting well at 8’ and 3’ paper tuned shots when the 300 isn’t?


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first, you must learn what reactions mean.

compound bow with the release. side tears are power stroke is incorrect. now the right tear is also signed of torque. you looked good there.

up and down tear. a high tear can be a weak reaction. it can be a nock travel issue.

a low tear as you have is a nock travel issue. the easy way of knowing is because as you added tip weight to that 300 spine and you got no changes. this tells me something is not set correctly. you are having a greater pull from the bottom of the bow. this could be a top weak limb or a strong bottom limb. could be you are to low in the burger hole. arrow not level or the cams are out of sync. anyone of these could be the problem, but for sure one is not correct. when a bow is set correctly. you should have a bullet hole with the lighter tip. it will pretty much stay that way till you reach a point where it is to much tip weight. when this happens it will go to a high tear.

this is nothing but reactions. this is why nock tuning is very important to always do first.

this was a fast explanation.

[IkemanTX]

Time for adult arrows....

first, you must learn what reactions mean.

compound bow with the release. side tears are power stroke is incorrect. now the right tear is also signed of torque. you looked good there.

up and down tear. a high tear can be a weak reaction. it can be a nock travel issue.

a low tear as you have is a nock travel issue. the easy way of knowing is because as you added tip weight to that 300 spine and you got no changes. this tells me something is not set correctly. you are having a greater pull from the bottom of the bow. this could be a top weak limb or a strong bottom limb. could be you are to low in the burger hole. arrow not level or the cams are out of sync. anyone of these could be the problem, but for sure one is not correct. when a bow is set correctly. you should have a bullet hole with the lighter tip. it will pretty much stay that way till you reach a point where it is to much tip weight. when this happens it will go to a high tear.

this is nothing but reactions. this is why nock tuning is very important to always do first.

this was a fast explanation.

So, I’m guessing all this assumes that nock height and rest are still perfect.....?

Could having the bow pushed from 60-70 lbs screwed any of these up?


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[rocky]

So, I’m guessing all this assumes that nock height and rest are still perfect.....?

Could having the bow pushed from 60-70 lbs screwed any of these up?


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I looked at your paper tears. Regardless of spine, I think you have a cam timing issue. Of course, this is assuming nock point is right. Most of today’s bows are more tolerant of spine.

[muddyfuzzy]

I agree with Rocky about the cams. You can really pull a bare shaft with the cams on a dual cam bow. I think Eric is spot on with the nock travel issue which is essentially Rocky’s point. Couple of times in and out of the press with some cable adjustment should fix it up then you can start doing something meaningful with the arrows.


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[HighwayHunter]

So, I’m guessing all this assumes that nock height and rest are still perfect.....?

Could having the bow pushed from 60-70 lbs screwed any of these up?


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Yes it could. Wouldn’t take much to mess it up. Anytime I adjust my draw weight, I always time the bow before I begin any paper tuning or tuning efforts for that matter.


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[IkemanTX]

Time for adult arrows....

Yes it could. Wouldn’t take much to mess it up. Anytime I adjust my draw weight, I always time the bow before I begin any paper tuning or tuning efforts for that matter.


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I looked at your paper tears. Regardless of spine, I think you have a cam timing issue. Of course, this is assuming nock point is right. Most of today’s bows are more tolerant of spine.

I agree with Rocky about the cams. You can really pull a bare shaft with the cams on a dual cam bow. I think Eric is spot on with the nock travel issue which is essentially Rocky’s point. Couple of times in and out of the press with some cable adjustment should fix it up then you can start doing something meaningful with the arrows.


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Well... I guess it’s back to the bow shop. That won’t happen till late next week, since I’ll be out of town for several days.

I guess I would have assumed they would have known to check that when I had them adjust the poundage...

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