Herd management example and strategies

[FCTrapper]

assume it's possible. (I think it would be possible to kill off 90-95% if that was the program where I hunt)
.

We have 5000 acres. I don't know what size a place you have. But I could imagine If it was a smaller place you could get into a higher % of the doe fawns. That's when "knowing your herd" plays a big part in your management.

[Encinal]

I have 120" mature 8 points...

[kyle1974]

I have 120" mature 8 points...

Why?

[kyle1974]

We have 5000 acres. I don't know what size a place you have. But I could imagine If it was a smaller place you could get into a higher % of the doe fawns. That's when "knowing your herd" plays a big part in your management.

Big place but broken into smaller pastures around 2500.

I'm just throwing out hypotheticals.

[Encinal]

Why?

Because its a bell curve... No one has shifted their bell curve in the pasture with a native non-manipulated herd far enough that they don't have 120" 8 points... They can be a lot more rare... But they will still be there.

[TexasTK]

I have not tried the targeting of fawns or young does. My place is not quite the size of you guys FCT & Encinal so I can sort of miro mange it.
I just shoot does that don't have fawns and if I need to shoot more focus on does that don't have twins. I produce plenty of Bucks so not worried about recruitment. More of an issue getting all the right bucks shot.

[HappyM]

I just can't shoot a fawn. Call me whatever you like but I just can't do it. Yearlings fine, fawns nada.

[kyle1974]

If you shoot them when they're out by themselves they look bigger sometimes.

[rtp]

If you shoot them when they're out by themselves they look bigger sometimes.

Im with Happy on the doe fawns, but Kyle this made me chuckle aloud.

I understand what Encinal and FC are saying and believe it but I just couldnt pull the trigger on a doe fawn. Maybe one day I will be able to.

[kyle1974]

We have always practiced this on ranches we have hunted over the years.

Why would you shoot a matriarch doe that is a tried and tested mother able to have twins, in lieu of leaving your fawn crop to be raised by a heard of first time mothers?

Matriarch does are the foundation of any herd. They are proven producers and know what it takes to survive and raise multiple offspring even in the toughest of times, whereas a young doe has absolutely no clue on how to raise their newborn. ( A teen mom if you will). And also, a young doe whose mother was shot did not have the benefit of learning those most valuable survival/parenting skills that have been passed on from generation to generation.

Will they learn on their own? Of course, but the benefit of learning from an elder vs. the hard way has to have an affect on mortality to some degree.

The old does are street sendero smart and can be trusted to get multiple sets of fawns to an age where they can fend for themselves.

The young mothers (& their offspring) that haven't had the guidance/experience are bound to be more likely to be chewed up and spit out in a place where only the smartest & strongest survive.

Having those smart matriarch does raise and educate your next generation(s) of does & bucks, plus thow possible twins every year seems like the way to go.....

so in a nutshell... you save the does that are good at protecting fawns, then go out and kill as many doe fawns as possible?

I understand that buck fawns are also born every year, but wondering how valuable the sendero lessons are from a mom who's going to kick you to the curb as soon as your male feelings to to make things awkward around the feeder.

I'd be interested to see fawn survival rates between does with a single fawn and does with twins. do you guys have anything like that?

[Encinal]

assume it's possible. (I think it would be possible to kill off 90-95% if that was the program where I hunt)

what % of doe fawns would you establish to be killed? it would all depend on what your natural rate of death is I suppose. it just seems like you would be doing a lot of juggling every year based on surveys.

You have to wait until late to start... So the bucks have good bumps... So plenty get by... It works... I've seen 140% fawn crops...

[kyle1974]

You have to wait until late to start... So the bucks have good bumps... So plenty get by... It works... I've seen 140% fawn crops...

have you seen that fawn crop % increase in a more or less linear transition from before you started doing this?

actually, that was the other thing... how long have you been doing this?

The HF place I hunt is totally different... babies coming out of DMP pens, so the genetics thing is a more controlled factor than it is without the DMP. but I'm thinking on the LF place... or if it would even be worth doing on LF at all due to all the other factors that can't be controlled....OR if it would be even more beneficial on the low fence because of the other factors...

at the end of the day, the fawn survival rate is night and day between the HF and LF.

[Encinal]

have you seen that fawn crop % increase in a more or less linear transition from before you started doing this?

actually, that was the other thing... how long have you been doing this?

The HF place I hunt is totally different... babies coming out of DMP pens, so the genetics thing is a more controlled factor than it is without the DMP. but I'm thinking on the LF place... or if it would even be worth doing on LF at all due to all the other factors that can't be controlled....OR if it would be even more beneficial on the low fence because of the other factors...

at the end of the day, the fawn survival rate is night and day between the HF and LF.

For 8 years in medina... We seem to always have a 100% fawn crop... Off and on in encinal.

It's not going to be linear... You still have the environmental factors to deal with... But it works both ways... You take out deer that would be counted as does in next years count that WOULDN'T have fawns... And leave does to 3+ That have much much higher success rates.

[Bear82]

If I am reading correctly, you are killing 50 percent of your deer surveyed 4.5 and older. Looks like a decrease in yr 2 numbers. I would be concerned about shooting too many older deer. I'm not an expert but would you maybe consider shooting more younger deer to thin the herd if needed to thin. Looks like you need more deer to get older. Try cull less superior genetics in each age class. Spread the culling around and of just shoot all your old deer.

[KR-oldmexico]

TTT keep it coming boys, Merry Christmas!