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Old 01-12-2022, 08:12 AM   #1
redsnapper101
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Default Why would Utah ban trail Cams?

Seriously why would they ban trail cams? The most useful tool for managing your heard, helps me decide which deer are oldest and need to be taken.... Freakin Snowflakes.
https://fishgame.com/2022/01/utah-ba...s-for-hunting/
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Old 01-12-2022, 08:15 AM   #2
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Read this:

https://www.rokslide.com/forums/thre...oughts.247296/
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Old 01-12-2022, 08:19 AM   #3
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The argument is the real time images and effectively it's no different than using a plane or drone to spot and hunt game. Which is illegal lots of places.
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Old 01-12-2022, 08:29 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsnapper101 View Post
The most useful tool for managing your heard,
Heard[sic]???
You raising cattle?
None of the cattleman I know use game cams to manage their herd.
They are out there every other day if not daily.
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Old 01-12-2022, 08:34 AM   #5
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Utah ain’t Texas OP. The herd is managed by the state and the problem in the Western states has gotten to be forty cameras around a water hole on public land in order to catch mulies and elk watering. Lots of outfitters are guilty of this. It creates a problem when those forty hunters all try to sit there at the same time. Obviously the numbers are exaggerated but the problem is real.
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Old 01-12-2022, 08:36 AM   #6
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It's an over reaction to a real issue. That's the problem, when you ask for the state to step in, they go in with both feet. There have been serious problems in western states with people putting cameras on waterholes, fence crossings, trails, etc. I've heard reports of as many as 11 cameras on one elk wallow. This led to cameras being stolen, fights, blaming trail cameras for overharvest, and other issues. I can understand outlawing them on public land, but there's no reason to stop them on private property, where access is restricted.
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Old 01-12-2022, 09:03 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by ultrastealth View Post
It's an over reaction to a real issue. That's the problem, when you ask for the state to step in, they go in with both feet. There have been serious problems in western states with people putting cameras on waterholes, fence crossings, trails, etc. I've heard reports of as many as 11 cameras on one elk wallow. This led to cameras being stolen, fights, blaming trail cameras for overharvest, and other issues. I can understand outlawing them on public land, but there's no reason to stop them on private property, where access is restricted.
I second this. I also want to add that part of it might have to do with the cellular cams where a hunter would know where an animal is right then and there. Maybe takes away from the fair chase aspect?
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Old 01-12-2022, 09:16 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
Heard[sic]???
You raising cattle?
None of the cattleman I know use game cams to manage their herd.
They are out there every other day if not daily.
YES , heard is a common term used to describe a deer population in a given area....
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Old 01-12-2022, 09:18 AM   #9
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I can see where the cell cams can give an unfair advantage.... have never used them, probably never will. But a trail cam I hike in once a month to check, dont see how that is a fair chase issue at all.
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Old 01-12-2022, 09:21 AM   #10
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I read part of the issue, involving places like water holes with 20 cameras, is the amount of disturbance from people going in to check them regularly.
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Old 01-12-2022, 09:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsnapper101 View Post
YES , heard is a common term used to describe a deer population in a given area....
Herd is the word you are seeking.

Heard is what you do when someone speaks. "I HEARD what he said"

And this is old news. If you arent hunting elk in Utah, why even worry about it?
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Old 01-12-2022, 09:26 AM   #12
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It is quite the problem IMO... I've hunted some nice units in recent years in New Mexico and Arizona, public land, not private, and EVERY SINGLE water hole will have 10+ cameras on it. I talked with one outfitter last year and he said he is running upwards of 400 cameras. So he knows exactly where the elk are and what time they are there. IMO it IS a mechanical advantage of a public game animal.

Heck, these elk are practically named by these guys, so when you are hunting near a water hole and the outfitter shows up because he knows that Bullwinkle 3.0 will be in for a drink in 30 minutes of course there is friction, which as stated above may be the bigger problem.
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Old 01-12-2022, 09:27 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsnapper101 View Post
YES , heard is a common term used to describe a deer population in a given area....
Man, quit while you are behind!
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Old 01-12-2022, 09:30 AM   #14
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I support it. Nothing like hiking in several miles into the mountains on Public Lands, feeling that primal connection to your ancestors and walking up to a spring coming out of a mountain side with 3 trail cameras posted on different trees. I'm the furthest thing from a hippie, and use them routinely at our lease here in Texas, but sometimes a man needs to get away from technology and I can think of no better place than public lands of The West.
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Old 01-12-2022, 09:31 AM   #15
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Lots of grumbling on the web that Arizona may be next to restrict the use of "cell type" trail cameras on public lands, targeting the state managed water sources.

Rwc
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Old 01-12-2022, 09:40 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwc View Post
Lots of grumbling on the web that Arizona may be next to restrict the use of "cell type" trail cameras on public lands, targeting the state managed water sources.

Rwc
Already did as of Jan 1 2022 I think. Loophole though is its still allowed for "Wildlife viewing" but not for " the aid in take of wildlife". Not so sure how that one is going to play out
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Old 01-12-2022, 09:43 AM   #17
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Glad to hear this - nothing better than earning some inside knowledge scouting - and glassing - and doing it like those before did.

Utah is B&C Muley Country. The boys on the left coast - this is their SOUTH TEXAS WORLD in the Trophy quest for Muley bone.

And Public Land hunts - cameras somehow increase the OWNERSHIP OF A SETUP more - on Public Land - and I can be close to darn well certain - mixing a bunch of TYPE A HUNTERS into a Property on Public land scene = Nothing good to come of it.

Zero feeders - zero influence and all free chase - fair game - TROPHY HUNTERS.

CAMERAS give the edge to TODAY'S hunter - those old records never had them and glad to see them kick that crap to the curb out there.

Leave it FREE and make them EARN IT - TOP DOWN.


We camped months and scouted - in mule deer country - well ahead of the September openers.

Cameras then - did not exist and if they did - I can guarantee those found would end up missing - not by me but the LOCALS

Out west - many frown on feeders - technology - ATVs (horseback bike or foot only) - lived it and hunted it 1996 - 2000 living and working out west.

My taxidermist who mounted my mule deer - many book class UTAH Mule deer in his home in Western Washington State. He left Washington each year - the entire season in Utah - was his world. And him and many of that time - frown on anything but fair chase. Base camp on public land - horses and hiking to well glassed and scouted areas - where book animals were scouted - and that info - was tight.

Cameras - this tosses that inside work and knowledge - without the investment and time - into doing it truly FAIR CHASE.

Thats my .2

The series YOSEMITE comes to mind......I bet they would love game cameras?
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Old 01-12-2022, 09:47 AM   #18
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Because people are ***holes.
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Old 01-12-2022, 09:47 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RR 314 View Post
Man, quit while you are behind!
Really an autocorrect error, and that is what you are focusing on? GFYS
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Old 01-12-2022, 09:53 AM   #20
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Opening morning - mule deer country - Public Land - BLAZE ORANGE in the EASY ZONES. Add cameras - I can see some SSS scenes with many - who are caught up in the moment.

It's bad enough to deal with others - on PUBLIC LAND HUNTS.

No stands illegal, no feeders illegal, no mechanized mobility machines to pack in and or out.

That's how I lived it and that wasn't too long ago there.

The WIFI techno BS doesn't fly - with the spirit of the WEST.

Let's keep it that way.


We have other areas where those who are in that business, money drives everything - let them shoot all the hogs and managed hunts - if that floats your boat - till the cows come home


WEST = KEEP IT PURE
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Old 01-12-2022, 09:59 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Mossback View Post
Already did as of Jan 1 2022 I think. Loophole though is its still allowed for "Wildlife viewing" but not for " the aid in take of wildlife". Not so sure how that one is going to play out
Yes sir, you are correct. I should have read a little more before posting.

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Old 01-12-2022, 09:59 AM   #22
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I'm all for banning it, keep the wild, wild.
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Old 01-12-2022, 10:24 AM   #23
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I dig it. Wish other western states would follow suit.

I'm also kinda glad the law extends to private land as well. No reason landowners or their leasees should get to play by different rules than the people that hunt public.
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Old 01-12-2022, 10:26 AM   #24
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One outfitter had 400 cameras. I hate fooling with 5-6!

No dog in this fight, but for big game it seems to conflict with fair chase.
Very effective on pigs here in Texas!

Also, all the camera owners seem like too much foot traffic around a vital water hole.
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Old 01-12-2022, 10:34 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big pig View Post
One outfitter had 400 cameras. I hate fooling with 5-6!

No dog in this fight, but for big game it seems to conflict with fair chase.
Very effective on pigs here in Texas!

Also, all the camera owners seem like too much foot traffic around a vital water hole.
Now that's the guy we need to answer the question "what is the best cellular trail cam".

I'll bet you $100 he doesn't say Spypoint.
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Old 01-12-2022, 10:37 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsnapper101 View Post
YES , heard is a common term used to describe a deer population in a given area....
I heard somewhere that the term to describe a deer population is "herd".
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Old 01-12-2022, 10:39 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsnapper101 View Post
YES , heard is a common term used to describe a deer population in a given area....
Herd, not heard.
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Old 01-12-2022, 10:44 AM   #28
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Thankfully Wyoming also bans them.
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Old 01-12-2022, 11:27 AM   #29
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Ban away, I’m good with it, when they became real time cellular the fair chase line was overstepped. I see it no different than thermal/night vision not being legal for take of deer.
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:02 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsnapper101 View Post
Really an autocorrect error, and that is what you are focusing on? GFYS
Haaaaa. Amazing how everyone else types “herd immunity” or “deer herd” and it doesn’t change. Have a swell day.
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:06 PM   #31
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I herd it’s because they are planning some covert military operations up there.
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:18 PM   #32
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Ban away
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:49 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtTheWall View Post
Glad to hear this - nothing better than earning some inside knowledge scouting - and glassing - and doing it like those before did.

Utah is B&C Muley Country. The boys on the left coast - this is their SOUTH TEXAS WORLD in the Trophy quest for Muley bone.

And Public Land hunts - cameras somehow increase the OWNERSHIP OF A SETUP more - on Public Land - and I can be close to darn well certain - mixing a bunch of TYPE A HUNTERS into a Property on Public land scene = Nothing good to come of it.

Zero feeders - zero influence and all free chase - fair game - TROPHY HUNTERS.

CAMERAS give the edge to TODAY'S hunter - those old records never had them and glad to see them kick that crap to the curb out there.

Leave it FREE and make them EARN IT - TOP DOWN.


We camped months and scouted - in mule deer country - well ahead of the September openers.

Cameras then - did not exist and if they did - I can guarantee those found would end up missing - not by me but the LOCALS

Out west - many frown on feeders - technology - ATVs (horseback bike or foot only) - lived it and hunted it 1996 - 2000 living and working out west.

My taxidermist who mounted my mule deer - many book class UTAH Mule deer in his home in Western Washington State. He left Washington each year - the entire season in Utah - was his world. And him and many of that time - frown on anything but fair chase. Base camp on public land - horses and hiking to well glassed and scouted areas - where book animals were scouted - and that info - was tight.

Cameras - this tosses that inside work and knowledge - without the investment and time - into doing it truly FAIR CHASE.

Thats my .2

The series YOSEMITE comes to mind......I bet they would love game cameras?
I only went to public school, but this was one of the hardest things to read I've ever come across.
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:53 PM   #34
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Ban away. IMO, it gives an unfair advantage to those that make their living off that public resource. The outfitters are the ones making the most stink over the ban b/c it makes their job that much more difficult.
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Old 01-13-2022, 05:55 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
I support it. Nothing like hiking in several miles into the mountains on Public Lands, feeling that primal connection to your ancestors and walking up to a spring coming out of a mountain side with 3 trail cameras posted on different trees. I'm the furthest thing from a hippie, and use them routinely at our lease here in Texas, but sometimes a man needs to get away from technology and I can think of no better place than public lands of The West.
I love posing for them cameras. I cant say I havent been suggestively naughty for a few cameras.
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Old 01-13-2022, 06:00 PM   #36
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I'm all for banning trail cameras on public land. Hope it passes and other states follow suit.
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Old 01-13-2022, 06:15 PM   #37
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I'm for banning real time cellular in Texas. I followed a thread on this site that a guy used cameras to alert him when an animal he wanted showed up. He left home and immediately went after him, ended up shooting it. Def not fair chase.
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Old 01-13-2022, 06:26 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redsnapper101 View Post
YES , heard is a common term used to describe a deer population in a given area....
Actually, I heard it’s called a “herd”.
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Old 01-13-2022, 06:42 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by SabineHunter View Post
I'm for banning real time cellular in Texas. I followed a thread on this site that a guy used cameras to alert him when an animal he wanted showed up. He left home and immediately went after him, ended up shooting it. Def not fair chase.
Lol I think it was a zoo animal too
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Old 01-13-2022, 06:46 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by SabineHunter View Post
I'm for banning real time cellular in Texas. I followed a thread on this site that a guy used cameras to alert him when an animal he wanted showed up. He left home and immediately went after him, ended up shooting it. Def not fair chase.
100%
As a majority, fair chase is gone with wind in Texas.
Long as you get them inches nothing else matters.
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Old 01-13-2022, 06:53 PM   #41
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I wouldn’t mind them being banned on public grounds, levels the playing field and detours “territory” issues. I think a statewide ban for the western states isn’t completely out of question since you are dealing with migratory animals out there. But I don’t see an issue with private lands in places like Texas.
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Old 01-13-2022, 07:11 PM   #42
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I don't hunt anywhere out west(yet) but have no problem with banning trail cams. I read an article where they were saying there was already a market for trail cam pics in certain areas. Locals would setup cameras and anyone could view the pictures and buy the exact info like where and when it was taken on any particular bull or buck.Thats ridiculous!

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Old 01-13-2022, 07:23 PM   #43
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Ban them on public lands but leave it to the landowner to decide on his own property. They are useful for more than killing big bucks...like knowing when hogs are in a trap or at a feeder, or trespassers are on the property.
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Old 01-13-2022, 07:34 PM   #44
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I hunt Utah yearly and quite often get a questionnaire from the state about what I think is right or wrong with regards to hunting regulations. I cannot recall this issue but I am sure that there was consensus amongst hunters who actually hunt in Utah about what they think. I am cool with it. Showing up cold to public land is disadvantage enough. If there are people who have named every good animal in the unit before hunting season you are clearly further disadvantaged.
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Old 01-13-2022, 07:52 PM   #45
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Snowflakes... LOL... some people don't seem to understand what that means but OK.

I'm 100% for the ban on public land, 100% against it on private. But I don't live in Utah so nobody cares what I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redsnapper101 View Post
Really an autocorrect error, and that is what you are focusing on? GFYS
lol somebody isn't getting the response they expected.

Last edited by justletmein; 01-13-2022 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 01-13-2022, 08:05 PM   #46
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Why? Maybe a strict interpretation of “fair chase’. I don’t know.


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Old 01-13-2022, 08:07 PM   #47
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I've been watching my Son-in-laws cell cam pics for a year or two and you can see what's hitting the feeder , but the times change daily. In our case everyone works for a living, and are only weekend warriors.
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Old 01-13-2022, 10:04 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by SabineHunter View Post
I'm for banning real time cellular in Texas. I followed a thread on this site that a guy used cameras to alert him when an animal he wanted showed up. He left home and immediately went after him, ended up shooting it. Def not fair chase.
I agree that that isn’t fair chase, but it sure is nice when you are 400 miles away from the lease to get some pictures.
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:54 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Briar Friar View Post
I love posing for them cameras. I cant say I havent been suggestively naughty for a few cameras.
That is awesome. I herd Vogue of the West is looking to sign you up.
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Old 01-14-2022, 10:08 AM   #50
Bill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doghouse View Post
I've been watching my Son-in-laws cell cam pics for a year or two and you can see what's hitting the feeder , but the times change daily. In our case everyone works for a living, and are only weekend warriors.

Montana law says you can’t use communications in the pursuit of game. Cellular trail cams are legal up to opening day of a season. After opening day, trail cams with SD cards must be used.


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