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Old 01-14-2020, 02:04 PM   #51
John Paul
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Amen its all crud, and so the same medical office my wife works for as a medical biller just dropped all medical insurance for staff do to price..... lol. And the wheels on the bus go round and round.... Gotta laugh or I would cry.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:04 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by JLivi1224 View Post
It is also intentionally convoluted, and difficult. As someone who has had an extreme amount of medical debt in the past, sometimes it will take me an hour on the phone just to iron out a small issue. At one point it was literally a full-time job for my wife to address and pay bills.
YEP.. They make it hard for a reason..
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:08 PM   #53
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Because of crooks like ATI.
Was quoted "about $40 per visit" when I inquired with receptionist.
Ok, that's reasonable after Insurance payment.
After the rushing to keep scheduling visits I started to become wary. After 4 visits and still not receiving a bill I stopped going. Last service was in early July. I did not get the first bill until November! Imagine if I had kept going... Had I known these ****ers were going to charge my insurance company $350/visit I would have told them where to stick it. I mean, lawyers don't even charge that much.

For what the lady did I could have looked up the exercises on the internet. The first 30 minutes of each visit was spent massaging my next to loosen the muscles. Should have went to the thai massage. At least there I would have gotten a handy.

After fighting this for over a year, ATI is still sticking to their guns and refusing to honor the $40 verbal stating that they already filed on insurance and I am liable for remaining balance.
I have a bill from the same place lol I was told $40 a visit I looked it up on our insurance and thought it was covered all ATI's were except the one I went to.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:08 PM   #54
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Totally agree, patients get the shaft for sure, but if pricing is standardized you would have to standardize Insurance reimbursements. If you didn't the care you would get would be substandard because Docs would have to see 2 to 3 times the amount of patients in a day to keep the practice going.
Yes, no, kinda.... I have two doctors in my family. They complain about the same thing. The huge expenses aren't coming from the doctors, it is coming from facilities. For my son's 2 heart ablation procedures, Dr was about $15,000.00 hospital was $360,000.00. Each required one overnight stay.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:25 PM   #55
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Yes, no, kinda.... I have two doctors in my family. They complain about the same thing. The huge expenses aren't coming from the doctors, it is coming from facilities. For my son's 2 heart ablation procedures, Dr was about $15,000.00 hospital was $360,000.00. Each required one overnight stay.
Yep, it costs a lot of money to keep the paperwork moving. ACA made it worse, and the Dr's are the ones who look bad in the end, when it isn't their fault.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:38 PM   #56
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Lawyers+Corupt Politicians+Big Pharma+Hospitals+Health Insurance co's=One of the largest criminal operations on the planet!!!!!

IF there is any hope Trump is it.. They fight him at every turn though.. It will probably never be fixed..



There it is, Tim! You crazy, tinfoil hat wearing son of a *****, you!

A lot of crow could be served up now in regard to many things over the last several years.

Certainly looking like us tinfoil hat folk, just have our eyes open a little sooner.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:05 PM   #57
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Unhappy Pandora box

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Lawyers+Corupt Politicians+Big Pharma+Hospitals+Health Insurance co's=One of the largest criminal operations on the planet!!!!! They all get rich and we supply the money!!

IF there is any hope Trump is it.. They fight him at every turn though.. It will probably never be fixed..
Don’t forget insurance companies and pharmaceutical are publicly traded companies, and lots of 401K and pension funds, private company hedge funds are relying on these companies to be financially stable and profitable, so people can get stable retirement
So I doubt the powers that be can close pandoras boxwithout jeopardizing that stability
So I wouldn’t hold your breath hoping that trump or any political figure will fix it
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:46 PM   #58
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There it is, Tim! You crazy, tinfoil hat wearing son of a *****, you!

A lot of crow could be served up now in regard to many things over the last several years.

Certainly looking like us tinfoil hat folk, just have our eyes open a little sooner.

Nah! Us naysayers just got real lucky when Obamacrap first started. We really had no idea it would turn out bad. I mean has any sector been part taken over by government ever gone down hill?
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:05 PM   #59
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If they would only go up 3% a year, everybody would be fine with it.
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Old 01-14-2020, 05:30 PM   #60
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And in the middle of all this is little hope for a person who truly can not work and has a likely terminal condition and kids and only chance is a procedure for over million bucks. I have a very close family member in this mess whom I have assisted through much of it. Scary as heck if we can not find honest medical help for common stuff much less telling them the patient only has medicaid and the illness is very serious and complicated. I believe we are responsible for ourselves but hope the Government does intervene to at least try to streamline the game and be transpararent. I do not support socialism. I do capitolism. Hate more laws but we need some wise moves. Some starts would be Drug Comanies. Open State Lines and at Canada meds which is partially happening. Like the menu approach too. Get it out there. I pay my bills immediately on a typical day. I always delay Medical bills to weed out the sh##. I do not pay if I do not agree. My credit is good so far so to Heck with em if it is not right!
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Old 01-14-2020, 05:49 PM   #61
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Can't blame drug companies. I mean you can but all that will do is mean less cures/drugs in the future. If those companies didn't make a lot of money when they find a drug that works they would never get the speculative money to do all the trials to begin with.

And people with pre-existing conditions were screwed before this mess started with O care. And people needing million dollar procedures were rejected also before this mess. As harsh as it sounds there are limits.

The best we could do is go back to the way it was 10 years ago. Or at minimum make people accountable. No free insurance if you don't work. I swear everyone has an excuse to not work anymore. Go back to the Little House on the Prairie days. You can not work...you can be homeless.. It's America. But you won't get stuff for free. Imagine a world where we're each responsible for our own families. Forbid that happen.
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:03 PM   #62
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Nah! Us naysayers just got real lucky when Obamacrap first started. We really had no idea it would turn out bad. I mean has any sector been part taken over by government ever gone down hill?

See: Amtrak, USPS ETC
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:11 PM   #63
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Just imagine govt healthcare!

Anyone for single payer needs to look into how these systems decide who gets treatment. It’s based on quality adjusted life years.
If you are on the fence about government healthcare PLEASE look it up.

Boils down to: if the government doesn’t feel like they’ll get their investment (ie life saving treatments at times) back through you paying into the system after your treatment then said treatment can be denied, in many cases

Last edited by JLivi1224; 01-14-2020 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:37 PM   #64
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Can't blame drug companies. I mean you can but all that will do is mean less cures/drugs in the future. If those companies didn't make a lot of money when they find a drug that works they would never get the speculative money to do all the trials to begin with.

And people with pre-existing conditions were screwed before this mess started with O care. And people needing million dollar procedures were rejected also before this mess. As harsh as it sounds there are limits.

The best we could do is go back to the way it was 10 years ago. Or at minimum make people accountable. No free insurance if you don't work. I swear everyone has an excuse to not work anymore. Go back to the Little House on the Prairie days. You can not work...you can be homeless.. It's America. But you won't get stuff for free. Imagine a world where we're each responsible for our own families. Forbid that happen.
Agree. And little House comment refers back to when we helped family and friends. Not the Government. Wish life was that simple. It could be but it is not as we all know. Good points. Wish more sources was there for rare diseases as only those big tickets which make drug companies richer are being investing in research. Who can blame. They are a business no matter how much we throw stones but right is right and wrong is wrong. Sad with all our technology and tax money going ???.
And accountable: d## straight. This is the starting point. Even if it is just "I am sorry I need help" Thank You if you can! Simple appreciation and kindness with humbleness is worth a fortune in my book.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:59 PM   #65
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Clarify to above comment: drug companies are not clean.
Some blame does go to drug companies. Research and it will melt your heart. Dangerous people exist in this business and do influence radically the paths of Medical folks business and Insurance and even Uncle Sam. I have researched and know as well as any to be careful what you read. It is a mess! Those who do the right thing and provide solutions, may God Bless.
Drugs. Docs. Nurses. Leaders. Me and You. and Patients willing to do the right things. Can not help someone who refuses to help themselves!
My family member did not get ill due to mistakes in life to clarify. But even if did, accountability applies either way on both sides of the field.
River Rat 1 my intent is friendly and see your great points well. It is tough.
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:10 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by JLivi1224 View Post
Just imagine govt healthcare!

Anyone for single payer needs to look into how these systems decide who gets treatment. It’s based on quality adjusted life years.
If you are on the fence about government healthcare PLEASE look it up.

Boils down to: if the government doesn’t feel like they’ll get their investment (ie life saving treatments at times) back through you paying into the system after your treatment then said treatment can be denied, in many cases
Then affirmative action healthcare will come into play. Oh how lovely that would be.


Only a small fraction of new drugs ever make it to market. And each try cost 10's of millions. It's more the governments fault for making the trials so costly. You know how much it costs just to apply for a new drug? And that fee is paid way before FDA panels approve or deny the drug.

Take away the money and please tell me who will find new cures and drugs. No way volunteer Dr's etc could even come 1/100th close to what the markets make possible.

Last edited by RiverRat1; 01-14-2020 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:14 PM   #67
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Default Google search on Darwin and insurance

Thought I would google search Darwin insurance
Thought provoking on how to fix healthy insurance

P.s the democratic debate is on right now talking about health care

“”The Darwin Awards of the Insurance Industry
Kevin Trokey on March 25, 2019
I’m sure you’re familiar with the theories of Charles Darwin, but have you ever heard of the Darwin Awards? If not, you have to check them out. In a word, UNBELIEVABLE.

A Google search for the awards returns a link to the website along with the briefest explanation of what they are about: “Chlorinating the gene pool.” With that temptation, how in the world could you resist clicking through?! Once clicked, the spirit of the awards becomes even more apparent, “We commemorate those who improve our gene pool--by removing themselves from it in the most spectacular way possible.”

The sometimes fatal endings aside, the stories are the type that make you shake your head in disbelief and feel better, oh-so-much-better, about your own life decisions. One story tells of a young man who, while relieving himself in the woods, decided it might be a good idea to take a selfie with an injured bear he encountered. Spoiler alert – this was not a good idea, AT ALL. Or another young man who, at the end of a booze cruise, decided to do handstands on the rail of the boat. Makes me think of my brother who has always said he hopes his last words are, “Hey, watch this!”

Clearly, these awards are a nod to Charles Darwin, who famously observed that the natural selection of the species would be the result of the survival of the fittest. But remember, the fittest among us aren’t necessarily the biggest or the strongest, they’re those who are most adaptable to change.””
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:31 PM   #68
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Medical bills are reported to be the number one cause of U.S. bankruptcies.
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:34 PM   #69
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Take care of ones self! Pay the price if you do not. (I do not like that one!) Help those who it is realistic to do so and without judgement. Learn, set examples and be wise to share tips of right and wrong (I do not like that one either). Accept what comes our way when we do what we can and it does not work. We have a full blown right to say NO in many situations. So does the Medical world whether right or wrong. Do not condemn yourself if you could not help or even chose not too. Life is too short. I am just a learner.
Man this thread got intense! Good. some need to read this stuff. And Million Bucks. Nope. No path to any answer there and screwed, yep. It is what it is!
Darwin, what do we do? I was born in Sinton by the way Pilar. Do not see that big city mentioned much.
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:40 PM   #70
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Trump would have fixed some of this if the democrats would quit trying to get him out of office
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:51 PM   #71
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Trump would have fixed some of this if the democrats would quit trying to get him out of office
Key word some to fix this someone is going to get alienated or start crying”’ hey what about us “ it’s going to take some very unpleasant divisive action
Like saying you smoked 3 packs a day and got COPD , lung cancer = tough luck should have spent your cig money better
Or you are a alcoholic and have cirrhosis or kidney, liver cancer = tough
AIDS = tough
Drug addiction hepatitis C = tough
Abortion laws are going to have to change, better prenatal genetic testing , forced sterilization for mentally ill ( bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, ect) nip that genetic stuff in the bud
Fixing this headache is going to hurt some feelings
“ you can please some of the people, but not all of the people “

P.s big pet peeve gastric bypass paid by insurance “ drink 12 Dr Pepper and eat 6 burger and fries a day help me insurance company or I will die = tough cookie
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Last edited by pilar; 01-15-2020 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:46 AM   #72
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No insurance?
No have “good insurance”...the total bill to insurance was close to 700 actually

Our part was about 12k...I’ve dealt with a few different billers and have got an average of 40 percent to pay off those

The rest was lumped into one bill (thank God) and I pay it monthly

I had cancer 4 years ago and my part was about 10k. The CT and MRI’s get expensive quick

But like I said the Texas Children’s was like Lambo Mercedes Bentley care for Tha Boy and mine was Methodist/Baylor and was like Cadillac Lincoln El Camino care (still great but not TCH level)
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Old 01-15-2020, 01:01 AM   #73
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4 hour heart surgery on a newborn $280,000
30 days in NICU $800,000
Followed by a second heart surgery and 2 weeks in the PICU....
I hear ya, insane!
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Old 01-15-2020, 02:25 AM   #74
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Too many profit centers within our medical system and all of them want to make the most off of you when you are most vulnerable. The Democrats are pushing that other 1st world countries are getting better results than us at 1/4 the cost. Medicare part D was a grand slam for the lobbyist. Republicans need to get some traction on this issue or they are going to lose seats. I'm and independent and willing to vote for either party that comes up with real solutions to our health care issues. so far I have seen no real solutions. Maybe both parties should quit relying on lobbyist to formulate their legislation.

Last edited by PlanoDano; 01-15-2020 at 02:30 AM.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:35 AM   #75
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Another thing that bugs me: Good Rx, and prescriptions!!! Why can't prescriptions just have the same cost? Sir your order is $769, we'll ma'm let me show you this coupon I found for free online while in line (huge line) at your pharmacy. "Oh why didn't you say something, ok your new total is $4.37.

Ridiculous games
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:33 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by pilar View Post
Key word some to fix this someone is going to get alienated or start crying”’ hey what about us “ it’s going to take some very unpleasant divisive action
Like saying you smoked 3 packs a day and got COPD , lung cancer = tough luck should have spent your cig money better
Or you are a alcoholic and have cirrhosis or kidney, liver cancer = tough
AIDS = tough
Drug addiction hepatitis C = tough
Abortion laws are going to have to change, better prenatal genetic testing , forced sterilization for mentally ill ( bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, ect) nip that genetic stuff in the bud
Fixing this headache is going to hurt some feelings
“ you can please some of the people, but not all of the people “

P.s big pet peeve gastric bypass paid by insurance “ drink 12 Dr Pepper and eat 6 burger and fries a day help me insurance company or I will die = tough cookie
LOL and I agree with all. Too bad it will get worse instead of better.

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Originally Posted by jlp04c View Post
Another thing that bugs me: Good Rx, and prescriptions!!! Why can't prescriptions just have the same cost? Sir your order is $769, we'll ma'm let me show you this coupon I found for free online while in line (huge line) at your pharmacy. "Oh why didn't you say something, ok your new total is $4.37.

Ridiculous games
Games they play to try and get "poor" people cheaper prescriptions.
I'd add that to the "tough" list above.

to clarify - most "poor" people are poor due to their own choices over time. Or they get totally screwed by healthcare.
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:12 PM   #77
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Because of crooks like ATI.
Was quoted "about $40 per visit" when I inquired with receptionist.
Ok, that's reasonable after Insurance payment.
After the rushing to keep scheduling visits I started to become wary. After 4 visits and still not receiving a bill I stopped going. Last service was in early July. I did not get the first bill until November! Imagine if I had kept going... Had I known these ****ers were going to charge my insurance company $350/visit I would have told them where to stick it. I mean, lawyers don't even charge that much.

For what the lady did I could have looked up the exercises on the internet. The first 30 minutes of each visit was spent massaging my next to loosen the muscles. Should have went to the thai massage. At least there I would have gotten a handy.

After fighting this for over a year, ATI is still sticking to their guns and refusing to honor the $40 verbal stating that they already filed on insurance and I am liable for remaining balance.
All results of the great Ponzi scheme by the Democrats to buy votes. And Medical cost have also skyrocketed because those voters have learned to use the hospital emergency room as their prymary care provider.
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Old 01-16-2020, 11:49 PM   #78
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My wife Is a medical biller for a Ped's office. Long ago insurance companies decided they would only pay 40-60% of the cost of a procedure and or a visit, then some Docs just increased the price of the visit to get the amount they would of originally charged. Then the cycle began, insurance companies payed less, docs charged more and got less. Every month her AR for one practice is 45%-55% of what was billed and most of the time insurance companies just deny a claim hoping it will be missed or it will be denied over 90 days then provider can't collect. And that practice has not over inflated its pricing but has had to decide not to see certain children with certain insurance because they were going out of business from not getting paid at all. It is super jacked up, this is one place I think the government should regulate the insurance companies some how. I know intervention rarely works.
The government isn't regulating insurance. They are outsourcing Medicare and Medicaid to insurance companies. I work in healthcare and take all forms of payment. Medicaid and Medicare is being managed and paid by companies like UHC, BCBS, Cigna, Molina, Humana, WellMed etc. Its all one big circle jerk.
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