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Old 02-16-2021, 06:27 PM   #1
kumathebear
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Angry Here we go..HIGHER Utilities Coming?

May have already been posted, but here we go....someone has to take the blame for potential poor planning and efficiency management....appears to be the general public consumers!
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Old 02-16-2021, 06:29 PM   #2
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Per usual things get more expensive.
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Old 02-16-2021, 06:30 PM   #3
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Them sum guns
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Old 02-16-2021, 06:37 PM   #4
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and all the Executives get bigger bonuses.
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Old 02-16-2021, 06:40 PM   #5
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I believe there will be a big turnover at all levels of government and commissions in Texas at the next election. People won't forget this anytime soon, at least not soon enough before elections come around.
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Old 02-16-2021, 06:44 PM   #6
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I believe there will be a big turnover at all levels of government and commissions in Texas at the next election. People won't forget this anytime soon, at least not soon enough before elections come around.
I sure hope youíre right!
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Old 02-16-2021, 06:50 PM   #7
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I would rather pay higher prices and have the power vs not having it.
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Old 02-16-2021, 06:59 PM   #8
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I would rather pay higher prices and have the power vs not having it.
I think we all would if that is part of the answer but let's get people in there that have a grasp on the situation and how much and where that infrastructure needs to be built. They should have had the foresight to know we as Texans were walking the thin line before this week.
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Old 02-16-2021, 07:01 PM   #9
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I would rather pay higher prices and have the power vs not having it.
You are going to get the higher prices but not the latter.
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Old 02-16-2021, 07:03 PM   #10
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I would rather pay higher prices and have the power vs not having it.
that's what they bank on.
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Old 02-16-2021, 07:04 PM   #11
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I would rather pay higher prices and have the power vs not having it.
that's what they bank on; just like Demonrats; create a situation and take advantage of it.
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Old 02-16-2021, 07:04 PM   #12
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Third world
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Old 02-16-2021, 07:06 PM   #13
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I would rather pay higher prices and have the power vs not having it.
I think thatís the point.
Why they are doing this now.
Weíre having rolling black outs 2 days now but not for all customers. The lady told me everybody was going through it. I told her several mostly kin that never lost power.
I then ask her why this doesnít happen in the summer when everybody is running ACís.
She said they came close a couple times?
IDK!
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Old 02-16-2021, 07:12 PM   #14
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This is just giving ERCOT the authority to pay more for spot generation to dump on the electric grid. Should help with the rolling blackouts. This has nothing to do with what a retail customer pays per kw. At least not right now!
Only problem is we only have so much generation out there that can help.

As you can see we need a few more fingers in the pie. You would thought they would have done this yesterday or the day before if they really wanted to help. Texas just doesn't have a good model for electric after deregulation. It needs lots of fine tuning. I just hope people don't forget this fiasco!

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Old 02-16-2021, 07:12 PM   #15
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Wind and solar should not be part of the minimal supply calculations. They aren’t reliable enough.
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Old 02-16-2021, 07:29 PM   #16
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I think thatís the point.
Why they are doing this now.
Weíre having rolling black outs 2 days now but not for all customers. The lady told me everybody was going through it. I told her several mostly kin that never lost power.
I then ask her why this doesnít happen in the summer when everybody is running ACís.
She said they came close a couple times?
IDK!
They did in Austin in the summer when the load got to high. Idiots should have had a wake up call then. Texas has plenty of natural gas, could have converted some of the old plants that were shut down. Sad mess with the political agenda that is driving this crisis.
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Old 02-16-2021, 08:48 PM   #17
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Texas is flaring off billions dollars of the cleanest energy natural gas. Need natural gas pipelines and refurbished facilities and get rid of the China made wind turbines and solar crap. Screw Bill Gates, slow Joe, aoc, and Kamala toe.
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Old 02-16-2021, 08:54 PM   #18
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Total BS

Good thing the politicians get their pockets lined by taking care of the Utilities and the working man gets screwed - again.
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Old 02-16-2021, 09:02 PM   #19
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The more I read about this situation, the more I wonder how many of the plants that shut down did so for economic reasons. That's the only consistent thread I can see.

Demand went up, almost to summertime levels which is apparently shocking to the industry. That means the plant had to draw more natural gas than they planned when they entered into their supply deals for natural gas. That pushed them to the spot market which apparently went crazy. When they looked at the price they would have to pay for natural gas to burn vs the price they would receive selling electricity into the market, they elected to shut the plant down instead of burning money.

These decisions were made individually by a lot of private companies that, when stacked together, created the energy shortage we see now. Many of these plants are not designed to be turned on and off at will, it takes time to get them going, so when electricity prices finally rose high enough to justify the plant operations, they were already shut down with steam lines quickly turning to ice lines. That meant they are not able to start up until the steam lines melt.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this is what you get with a semi-controlled market. Demand surged, feedstock surged (bc people like me were burning nat gas to keep the heater and hot water going), but electricity prices paid to the plant owner (paid/set by ERCOT?) did not surge. That tells the plant operator that somebody else is able to generate enough power to meet the demand at a lower cost so...why keep running when you could just wait for Nat Gas prices to drop for your plant to make economic sense.
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Old 02-16-2021, 09:06 PM   #20
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Elections matter. Remember that when it comes time to vote.
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Old 02-16-2021, 09:19 PM   #21
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I assure you very few folks were thinking about what their electricity bill was going to be in the midst of this
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Old 02-16-2021, 09:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Texas is flaring off billions dollars of the cleanest energy natural gas. Need natural gas pipelines and refurbished facilities and get rid of the China made wind turbines and solar crap. Screw Bill Gates, slow Joe, aoc, and Kamala toe.

Iím with you brokeno. So over this green energy bs. And all those folks you mentioned are part of a big circle jerk.


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Old 02-16-2021, 09:25 PM   #23
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I have had spotty service and limited information but I think I saw where Gov. Abbot has addressed this and called for an investigation and law makers to address it with legislation. From what I heard he was not happy with the PUC putting this out.
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Old 02-16-2021, 09:27 PM   #24
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Wind and solar should not be part of the minimal supply calculations. They arenít reliable enough.
My wind farm ran 90 towers out of 91 today making 1.3 million a hour all day. I would say thatís pretty reliable.
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Old 02-16-2021, 09:28 PM   #25
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Texas is flaring off billions dollars of the cleanest energy natural gas. Need natural gas pipelines and refurbished facilities and get rid of the China made wind turbines and solar crap. Screw Bill Gates, slow Joe, aoc, and Kamala toe.
Vestas wind turbines are made in Denmark...
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Old 02-16-2021, 09:29 PM   #26
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My wind farm ran 90 towers out of 91 today making 1.3 million a hour all day. I would say thatís pretty reliable.

I saw about 50 Friday and not one was operational.

Regardless of how reliable they are, we shouldnít be subsidizing them and theyíre no greener than a NG plant over time.


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Old 02-16-2021, 09:33 PM   #27
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I saw about 50 Friday and not one was operational.

Regardless of how reliable they are, we shouldnít be subsidizing them and theyíre no greener than a NG plant over time.


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Yup! Especially when you look at what an oil change in one of those turbines costs!
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Old 02-16-2021, 10:10 PM   #28
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Vestas wind turbines are made in Denmark...
I guess you were 2% of the functioning renewable energy sources. I live in the middle of some of the largest wind fields in the state not a **** one has turned since this all set in this weekend
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Old 02-16-2021, 10:14 PM   #29
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I believe there will be a big turnover at all levels of government and commissions in Texas at the next election. People won't forget this anytime soon, at least not soon enough before elections come around.
Agreed!
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Old 02-16-2021, 10:25 PM   #30
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Part of my career is a high portion of HV Transmission. I can tell you right now, there are multiple power companies who have quite a few outages on transmission lines for rebuild and tie ins to new substations. ERCOT won’t allow these outages from June to September due to the high demand for electricity in the summer months. That leaves a short amount of time to get a lot of work done in times where electricity needs in Texas are generally at its lowest. And re-energizing these lines isn’t as simple as running over and flipping a switch real quick before the storm hits. So you already have that as an existing outage. Now take into account for the lines that were damaged which are out de-energized. I have crews headed out for emergency restoration right now. There is a lot more to it than what the outside see’s. The bottom line is it’s a once in a century storm that our southern infrastructure wasn’t prepared for. No different than Oklahoma doesn’t prepare for hurricanes.
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Old 02-16-2021, 10:32 PM   #31
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Quote:
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Part of my career is a high portion of HV Transmission. I can tell you right now, there are multiple power companies who have quite a few outages on transmission lines for rebuild and tie ins to new substations. ERCOT wonít allow these outages from June to September due to the high demand for electricity in the summer months. That leaves a short amount of time to get a lot of work done in times where electricity needs in Texas are generally at its lowest. And re-energizing these lines isnít as simple as running over and flipping a switch real quick before the storm hits. So you already have that as an existing outage. Now take into account for the lines that were damaged which are out de-energized. I have crews headed out for emergency restoration right now. There is a lot more to it than what the outside seeís. The bottom line is itís a once in a century storm that our southern infrastructure wasnít prepared for. No different than Oklahoma doesnít prepare for hurricanes.

Quality info.


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Old 02-16-2021, 10:52 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Sleepy View Post
Part of my career is a high portion of HV Transmission. I can tell you right now, there are multiple power companies who have quite a few outages on transmission lines for rebuild and tie ins to new substations. ERCOT wonít allow these outages from June to September due to the high demand for electricity in the summer months. That leaves a short amount of time to get a lot of work done in times where electricity needs in Texas are generally at its lowest. And re-energizing these lines isnít as simple as running over and flipping a switch real quick before the storm hits. So you already have that as an existing outage. Now take into account for the lines that were damaged which are out de-energized. I have crews headed out for emergency restoration right now. There is a lot more to it than what the outside seeís. The bottom line is itís a once in a century storm that our southern infrastructure wasnít prepared for. No different than Oklahoma doesnít prepare for hurricanes.

Iím sure there is more to the story as you are saying, but this is a huge failure. In the moment Texas families needed their power providers most, they were let down. I hope lessens are learned and corrective actions are addressed. Iíll hold judgment until I lean more, but Iím guessing some new leadership is in order.
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Old 02-16-2021, 10:56 PM   #33
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Iím sure there is more to the story as you are saying, but this is a huge failure. In the moment Texas families needed their power providers most, they were let down. I hope lessens are learned and corrective actions are addressed. Iíll hold judgment until I lean more, but Iím guessing some new leadership is in order.

Always room for improvement, but historically Texans need their power providers most from June to August. As bad as this sucks, it could still be worse then.


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Old 02-16-2021, 11:25 PM   #34
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Free market economy for all, who's with me! Supply vs demand.

The only residential customers that would be affected by rtmp adjustment would be those on market rate plans. The rest of you on fixed rate plans would never be affected by these price adjustments.

They are meant to hit industrial and commercial users who have not properly hedged their volumes.

Peace be still
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Old 02-16-2021, 11:29 PM   #35
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Iím sure there is more to the story as you are saying, but this is a huge failure. In the moment Texas families needed their power providers most, they were let down. I hope lessens are learned and corrective actions are addressed. Iíll hold judgment until I lean more, but Iím guessing some new leadership is in order.
You should look at the leadership that voted against fossil fuel power gen in TX, opting instead for wind or solar renewable energy. Wind turbines freeze and solar doesnt work during snowstorms.
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Old 02-16-2021, 11:40 PM   #36
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Thats a retarded order...
Synopsis...
Cheap electricity...less responsiveness to emergency
Charge more...get better responsiveness to emergency.

$1200/day actual
$9000/day regulated cap

“Oh! Lets dial up cost and maybe we can move faster to respond.”
CaballoCaca!

Houston city admin failed. ERCOT did its job.
Gov Abbott said it on KVUE...”... private power companies were the failures. ERCOT did its job with what it had to work with.”

I believe him. The big city narrative will spew otherwise. My Co-op hasnt failed me yet...God bless!

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Old 02-16-2021, 11:54 PM   #37
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Quote:
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Iím sure there is more to the story as you are saying, but this is a huge failure. In the moment Texas families needed their power providers most, they were let down. I hope lessens are learned and corrective actions are addressed. Iíll hold judgment until I lean more, but Iím guessing some new leadership is in order.
Heads need to roll. **** poor planning for those in charge of prepping for stuff like this.
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Old 02-17-2021, 12:14 AM   #38
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I worked10 years in electric utilities regulated. 30 yrs deregulated. Now it's a money game all at the expense of the consumers. Reliability of a product is start to finish with a purpose in mind to protect the company's infrastructure and investment for the long term. Now it handled by 3 companies. Generation transmission and distribution for short term gains. The PUC existed in both regulated and deregulation markets. Rate increases had to have PUC approval. Now rates are market driven with no concern about future reliability. Did the cost of the product to the consumer go down in price under deregulation?
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Old 02-17-2021, 12:18 AM   #39
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You should look at the leadership that voted against fossil fuel power gen in TX, opting instead for wind or solar renewable energy. Wind turbines freeze and solar doesnt work during snowstorms.
I hear ya. Sounds like these new sources are a liability.
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Old 02-17-2021, 02:24 AM   #40
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You should look at the leadership that voted against fossil fuel power gen in TX, opting instead for wind or solar renewable energy. Wind turbines freeze and solar doesnt work during snowstorms.

Besides that, it takes more
Energy to build a turbine than it will ever produce in its lifetime.

Itís like taking the sulphur out of diesel, to make it burn 5% cleaner...which lowered mileage by 12%. Or putting ded systems on Diesel engines to reduce emissions, and creating BILLIONS of tons of waste (that took fossil fuels to make), to reduce ďsmokeĒ...not actual pollution.

****ing morons.


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Old 02-17-2021, 06:22 AM   #41
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Truly...first world problems. I'll pay it, take my money! Just give me my heat and my microwave, and my toilet!
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Old 02-17-2021, 06:47 AM   #42
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Besides that, it takes more
Energy to build a turbine than it will ever produce in its lifetime.

It’s like taking the sulphur out of diesel, to make it burn 5% cleaner...which lowered mileage by 12%. Or putting ded systems on Diesel engines to reduce emissions, and creating BILLIONS of tons of waste (that took fossil fuels to make), to reduce “smoke”...not actual pollution.

****ing morons.


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Most wind turbines pay themselves off pretty quickly it's why they are going up, I think it's a ruse by oil guys to avoid competition. Sounds like some of you don't actually like open market capitalism unless it directly benefits you, seems kind of communistic to me.

Why is an open market so bad boys? I know you guys are going to say, but wind/solar has been subsidized! Guess what, so is oil/gas, and has been since 1915, mad someone else got on that gravy train?

I'm all for removing all subsidies from all energy personally, guess what happens if you do, the price goes up across the board.

If you put wind turbines in a horrible location -- sure they suck (which is where people get this talking point, they did a test on a very badly place wind farm) -- don't do that (they are a lot better now at testing an area first).

As far as I know wind has been contributing it's share of the energy pie since this issue happened, oil/gas HAS NOT, so no idea why wind/solar is getting hammered....except the oil guys are just attacking competition, why people choose to shut down so many of the plants, that was an economic call by some energy bosses so their bonus will be bigger at the end of the year. Problem there is with people, not with solar/wind/gas/oil.

I think there is tons of oil out there, and it's great. I don't think we are even close to running out of oil. Why focus on other industries then?

A) It's driving technology advances in batteries and solar big time.
B) It's a form of competition
C) While oil/gas may last for another 100, 1000, or even 10000 (I think its more like in this realm) years why not prepare for the future now, put some nuts away for winter, help out future generations, especially if it's driving technology advances

I understand your bosses might be ****** they are not going to get their million dollar bonuses every year (instead getting half million dollar bonuses) anymore so they pump you guys with negative vibes about competition, and point out every research paper that had anything bad to say about them.

Ultimately that is what wind/solar is....competition, I thought that is a good thing in an open market?!!

Why not love ALL of the energy sources? There are a lot of statements in these threads that seem like contradictions / baseless attacks and bringing up fake news facts.
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Old 02-17-2021, 07:43 AM   #43
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When this is over, just get a whole house generator and disconnect from the utility power.
Now at some point you will have to shut your system down for maintenance.
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Old 02-17-2021, 07:52 AM   #44
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You are going to get the higher prices but not the latter.
bingo
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Old 02-17-2021, 07:58 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Moser View Post
Besides that, it takes more
Energy to build a turbine than it will ever produce in its lifetime.

It’s like taking the sulphur out of diesel, to make it burn 5% cleaner...which lowered mileage by 12%. Or putting ded systems on Diesel engines to reduce emissions, and creating BILLIONS of tons of waste (that took fossil fuels to make), to reduce “smoke”...not actual pollution.

****ing morons.


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Agree, but they aren't going to let a good crisis go to waste. All this bureaucratic bs is making some people very wealthy. Whether it be the business sector or political. For the most part, they are intertwined.
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Old 02-17-2021, 08:05 AM   #46
El General
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Wind is only profitable due to government subsidies, so I have to pay for it twice. **** that.
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Old 02-17-2021, 08:08 AM   #47
Falling
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Wind is only profitable due to government subsidies, so I have to pay for it twice. **** that.
guess what you do that already for oil/gas, scared of competition on an even playing field?
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Old 02-17-2021, 08:12 AM   #48
El General
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guess what you do that already for oil/gas, scared of competition on an even playing field?
The depletion allowance is the only significant oil and gas tax break and it is for discovery, not production or power.

Are wind/solar farms paying into the Land and Water conservation fund?

You are bragging that wind/solar is only down to 50% production. What percentage of their production are fossil fuel plants down to in the state?

Last edited by El General; 02-17-2021 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 02-17-2021, 08:37 AM   #49
imyomama
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i read somewhere that windmills in cold weather actually consume power due to heaters inside of them protecting internals from freezing... not sure how true this is or if anyone would ever fess up to this ..
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Old 02-17-2021, 09:46 AM   #50
Leverhunter
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Most wind turbines pay themselves off pretty quickly it's why they are going up, I think it's a ruse by oil guys to avoid competition. Sounds like some of you don't actually like open market capitalism unless it directly benefits you, seems kind of communistic to me.

Why is an open market so bad boys? I know you guys are going to say, but wind/solar has been subsidized! Guess what, so is oil/gas, and has been since 1915, mad someone else got on that gravy train?

I'm all for removing all subsidies from all energy personally, guess what happens if you do, the price goes up across the board.

If you put wind turbines in a horrible location -- sure they suck (which is where people get this talking point, they did a test on a very badly place wind farm) -- don't do that (they are a lot better now at testing an area first).

As far as I know wind has been contributing it's share of the energy pie since this issue happened, oil/gas HAS NOT, so no idea why wind/solar is getting hammered....except the oil guys are just attacking competition, why people choose to shut down so many of the plants, that was an economic call by some energy bosses so their bonus will be bigger at the end of the year. Problem there is with people, not with solar/wind/gas/oil.

I think there is tons of oil out there, and it's great. I don't think we are even close to running out of oil. Why focus on other industries then?

A) It's driving technology advances in batteries and solar big time.
B) It's a form of competition
C) While oil/gas may last for another 100, 1000, or even 10000 (I think its more like in this realm) years why not prepare for the future now, put some nuts away for winter, help out future generations, especially if it's driving technology advances

I understand your bosses might be ****** they are not going to get their million dollar bonuses every year (instead getting half million dollar bonuses) anymore so they pump you guys with negative vibes about competition, and point out every research paper that had anything bad to say about them.

Ultimately that is what wind/solar is....competition, I thought that is a good thing in an open market?!!

Why not love ALL of the energy sources? There are a lot of statements in these threads that seem like contradictions / baseless attacks and bringing up fake news facts.

I'm not in the oil and gas industry and a i think wind turbines suc !

They aren't cost effective, are unreliable, cause noise pollution (ever lived next to one ?), take up too much real estate, they are a waste of financial and material resources. A small development for research is fine but they are not suitable for reliable energy.
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