Opinions on managing for "wider" genetics

[HUNTNETIME]

Just curious what you guys think is even possible and wanted to bounce some things off of the TBH braintrust. My lease is in Bee County between Refugio and Beeville. This is my 4th year on the lease. There are 4 of us on a little more than 1200ac. Lease rules state we are allowed to take one "Trophy" buck(mature and 8 pts or better), one "Management" buck(mature and less than 8 pts) and whatever the law allows on does. We have pretty light pressure I think in the area we are in from surrounding properties overall. We don't necessarily have a "management" plan in place except that we all strive to shoot mature deer(4.5 and older) and don't shoot a lot of does(we don't really see a lot of does). That is kind of the extent of our "management" plan. I know...kind of weak. So, what I've noticed is we don't have a lot of WIDE genetics. I have been fortunate enough to shoot some pretty nice bucks with decent width, decent mass, decent tine length, etc. But it seems a majority of our mature bucks are fairly narrow(under 18"). We have a decent crop of up and comers every year, but still nothing real wide. So, my question is, are we "stuck" with narrower deer? Do we try to kill off the narrower deer, leave anything that shows promise of width to pass on those genes? This might mean forgoing shooting a buck for a couple of years? Attached is a link to some pics I've taken with my big camera over the last 2 years or so and I'm uploading a pic of a buck I killed a few weeks ago. I believe him to be a mature buck with good mass, good tine length, nice brow tines, but not real wide. Does a mature buck like this get wider with another year or two of age typically? Just thought I'd get some of your thoughts. Also, we DO NOT feed protein or cotton or anything on this lease.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/36761585@N02/albums/72157677492864240

Here are some links to some videos of a couple of bucks from opening weekend this year:

https://youtu.be/06y77tZQ7LQ

https://youtu.be/78KqFESJOuI

https://youtu.be/jXOI2A8hLfQ

[diamond10x]

The only way to change an areas gene pool characteristics is by eliminating it and replacing it with desired traits or introducing desired traits to existing gene pool, I.e. bringing in new deer.

Personally IMHO I think y’all have some great deer. Yes wide deer are cool and make bucks look bigger, but those tall narrow genes are gonna out score the wide deer almost every time.

[RMW]

I’m not far from you and we have some pretty wide deer, so I know the genetics are there. I’m thinking y’all need to let the trophy’s get a few more years older to see their potential. We had a 30 inch buck killed in our pasture a few years ago, didn’t score a lot but he was pretty. I’ll see if I can post a pic

[HUNTNETIME]

The only way to change an areas gene pool characteristics is by eliminating it and replacing it with desired traits or introducing desired traits to existing gene pool, I.e. bringing in new deer.

Personally IMHO I think y’all have some great deer. Yes wide deer are cool and make bucks look bigger, but those tall narrow genes are gonna out score the wide deer almost every time.

I think we have great deer too and I feel very blessed to have a good lease that I can afford close to home. Don't get me wrong. Just trying to feel out what folks think are actually possible on a low fence place like ours. One of the other guys on our lease said if we were an AR county, we wouldn't have many deer to shoot. I think that isn't quite true, as the 3 bucks I've shot in 4 seasons have all been over 13" wide inside, but not much wider(even though they are "nice" bucks). We just don't seem to see many bucks outside their ears. Some good mass, good tine length, and a few with decent brows. Just not a lot of width. Maybe it's just a matter of working with our gene pool and killing off trash where we see it(we don't see much trash) and letting them get some age on them.

[HUNTNETIME]

I’m not far from you and we have some pretty wide deer, so I know the genetics are there. I’m thinking y’all need to let the trophy’s get a few more years older to see their potential. We had a 30 inch buck killed in our pasture a few years ago, didn’t score a lot but he was pretty. I’ll see if I can post a pic

You may be right...the last time an over 20" wide deer was killed on the place was something like 8 years ago. I know I've not seen anything wider than about 18" inside in the 4 years I've been on the place.

[RMW]

30 inches wide

[HUNTNETIME]

30 inches wide

Hahaha...that is insane.

[gingib]

with that much land and those genetics they need to see at least 5.5 and possibly 6.5 to see their true beauty

[Shurshot]

I think it would take many generations of culling out narrow deer and removing many many does. I would think it would be pretty much impossible to change that genetic trait on a large scale, especially if you can only take 2 bucks per hunter. That's only 8 bucks per year on your lease.


My 2 largest bucks ive killed are a 180" buck that was 13 7/8'' wide and a 176 that was 17" wide.
that picture and videos are some good solid deer. nothing wrong with that.

[Killer]

You are worried about something you can not fix on a 1200ac low fence lease without throwing more money than the lease cost. You have some good deer. Let them get older, there is no telling what they would look like at 6.5 years of age.

[Top Of Texas]

Whitetail bucks peak at 6.5 to 7.5 years. Culling bucks in an attempt to alter antler traits is a farse. Research shows it only decreases the mature buck population. I can expand if you'd like.

[HUNTNETIME]

Thanks yall. Don't get me wrong. I know we have some nice deer on our property. I also know age is key in big antlered deer(along with nutrition, genetics, etc). I am not "worried" about our deer population. Just striking up a conversation and asking for opinions on subjects brought up around our firepit. I have no illusions of running our lease like a high fence ranch. ��

[warrington]

Wider deer

Let all wider deer walk and shoot more narrow deer

[brokeno]

Spread is only one measurement. Tines measurements are every tine. I would rather kill a deer with long times than spread any day. It would take years to change the genetics.

[lovemylegacy]

You are bound by your neighbors deer. Buck fawns will leave and relocate up to 5 miles away. Doe fawns stay with their mother. So half your genetics leave with the buck fawns. That area may not hold many wide genetics, so just manage what you have, thin your doe herd and let the bucks get above 5yrs old. Just looking at your pics, you have a good base of young recruited bucks and some good looking mature bucks. Let them grow, you never know what might happen. I wish I had your problem.

The buck with the broken beam is one heck of a buck! And he looks young!