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Old 06-04-2019, 07:32 PM   #1
Huntingfool
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Hunted Texas for the last 60 years - unfortunately this article is spot on - in ten years from now what will Texas deer hunting be?


http://www.earthisland.org/journal/i...FeofaRrzE9gt4A
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:34 PM   #2
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kinda of like Al Gore said we'd all be under water by the year 2000.
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:39 PM   #3
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Hunting is definitely becoming a lost art. I doubt the average hunter in Texas even knows how to sharpen a knife anymore.
Nothing is safe from the everybody gets a trophy mentality
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:42 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by MadHatter View Post
Hunting is definitely becoming a lost art. I doubt the average hunter in Texas even knows how to sharpen a knife anymore.
Nothing is safe from the everybody gets a trophy mentality


I just throw mine away when it gets dull and get a new one.


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Old 06-04-2019, 07:43 PM   #5
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I’ve slowly lost enchantment with hunting because of the progression it has taken the past decade I’ve been involved.

I can’t stomach the cost anymore honestly...
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:45 PM   #6
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It’s sad
The ranch I border is only 190 acres and they have ten hunters. The ranch I work for is 2200, the ranch that encompasses the other 2/3 of the 190 place is 4800. These rejects killed seven 2.5 yr old 8 points. We asked them why and they said that’s how you properly manage a place ( kill every deer you see that isn’t a ten point no matter the age). I just shook my head and told them they were idiots. Nearly all of those bucks had grown up on our milo fields all year and just happened to pass through their place going to our other food plot. I see more nonhunters hunting than I do outdoorsman doing anything.
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:47 PM   #7
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And there are actual grownups that get mad and can't understand why you ask if their kill was high fence or low fence?

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Old 06-04-2019, 07:49 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by MadHatter View Post
Hunting is definitely becoming a lost art. I doubt the average hunter in Texas even knows how to sharpen a knife anymore.
Nothing is safe from the everybody gets a trophy mentality
I am no big game expert hunter but the average trophy hunter who pays $$$ doesn't even carry a knife. Why would they?
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:53 PM   #9
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A friend sent me that article just today and I read it with my defenses up assuming it was another “hunting is evil” diatribe. However I found myself agreeing with much of it. Yes, deer breeding and pay-to-kill menu hunts are legal and I hesitate to give any ground to the anti-hunting movement. But this type of hunting is the opposite of what I personally think deer hunting is all about. I guess you could say I’m conflicted. On the one hand I am baffled at how anyone could feel a sense of pride and accomplishment because they wrote a five figure check and killed what is basically domestic livestock with a rocking chair on its head. On the other hand I don’t want to give any ground to those who’s ultimate goal is to ban hunting altogether
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:05 PM   #10
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I hate high fences.
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:08 PM   #11
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Good read.
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:09 PM   #12
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The scenario described in the article isn't sustainable. It's a temporary boom headed towards the inevitable bust.

What's left over, post-bust, won't look like it does today.
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:21 PM   #13
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I live in Louisiana and work in Texas. I'm not sure if it's because there is not much public land over there or what but I don't work with a single person that is not on a lease sittin in a box over a corn feeder. To each his own though but I've often wondered if any of em has ever been scouting. I hunted on a lease for a couple of years here and found myself hating sitting in a box staring at the same old trees. Gave it up and now only hunt public land where baiting is not legal. I find scouting and seeing new woods so much more fun. I've found some white oaks that are basically free feeders.

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Old 06-04-2019, 08:27 PM   #14
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Man based on all this information, deer hunting will cease in 10yrs and that AOC lady with the big teeth says the world will end in 12 years. That's 2 years where I guess I am only bass fishing.
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:30 PM   #15
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I live in Louisiana and work in Texas. I'm not sure if it's because there is not much public land over there or what but I don't work with a single person that is not on a lease sittin in a box over a corn feeder. To each his own though but I've often wondered if any of em has ever been scouting. I hunted on a lease for a couple of years here and found myself hating sitting in a box staring at the same old trees. Gave it up and now only hunt public land where baiting is not legal. I find scouting and seeing new woods so much more fun. I've found some white oaks that are basically free feeders.

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This is how I hunt and was raised hunting.. I hunt on a lease with my kids but most of my hunting is either on a scrape line or oak flat in the national forest or spot and stalk axis and elk.. I can last all day if I can move around but I wont make it an hour in a blind staring at a feeder..
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:41 PM   #16
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A friend sent me that article just today and I read it with my defenses up assuming it was another “hunting is evil” diatribe. However I found myself agreeing with much of it. Yes, deer breeding and pay-to-kill menu hunts are legal and I hesitate to give any ground to the anti-hunting movement. But this type of hunting is the opposite of what I personally think deer hunting is all about. I guess you could say I’m conflicted. On the one hand I am baffled at how anyone could feel a sense of pride and accomplishment because they wrote a five figure check and killed what is basically domestic livestock with a rocking chair on its head. On the other hand I don’t want to give any ground to those who’s ultimate goal is to ban hunting altogether
You pretty much summed up my feelings - I too am conflicted. I am all about progress and small cities growing into big cities - that is life and I deal with it-

but the deer hunting tradition within families and peoples lives is so deep that it makes me sick to think that someday that will all be gone - and trust me someday it WILL ALL BE GONE = truth is there is no turning back -
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:53 PM   #17
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I can see me not hunting in 10yrs. I have lost pretty much all interest. Only time I will go is with Riley. Maybe over time that passion will come back but now I could care less. I would rather go fishing instead
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:58 PM   #18
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Over the last ten years I’ve almost entirely switched to duck hunting. It’s way more fun
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:04 PM   #19
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Guys this is such a small portion of the hunting community when you look at the state of Texas. Deer breeders are facing more scrutiny than ever do to CWD and many are getting out of the business. There will always be high fences and put and take hunting but it is not going to ruin hunting for the average hunter. It is only a small fraction of the hunters. And like previously stated it will pass as the price will over shadow demand. This is already happening with breeder buck prices.
I think we as hunters can control lease prices by not paying the high price requested for leases. Until that happens prices for all leases will continue to rise. That is my experience in 44 years of hunting and game management.


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Old 06-04-2019, 09:06 PM   #20
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Ha! I've reverted back to my old high school methods, dodging game wardens adds a whole new dimension to hunting again. 😜
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:11 PM   #21
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It is just one more nail in the coffin of what was "Texas". The state is changing so fast we will not recognize it in a few short years. In fact, some parts are foriegn to me even now. We are going the way of California, like it or not.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:25 PM   #22
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I’d rather shoot a 150” free range deer than a 200” deer in any high fence. I know high fence places can be thousands of acres, but it’s still high fenced. It just doesn’t appeal to me.
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Old 06-04-2019, 11:12 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by BrandonA View Post
I can see me not hunting in 10yrs. I have lost pretty much all interest. Only time I will go is with Riley. Maybe over time that passion will come back but now I could care less. I would rather go fishing instead


Heck if you think about it, your parents’ private “lake” full of genetically superior Camelot bass is not much different than a high fence ranch with breeder deer in it. Introduced genetics, great nutrition, confined to boundaries, culling of smaller animals, landowner decides who gets a chance at the trophy bounty.... all in the name of producing trophies of the species.

For the record, I’m not against either. It just hit me reading your post.
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Old 06-04-2019, 11:19 PM   #24
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I’d rather shoot a 150” free range deer than a 200” deer in any high fence. I know high fence places can be thousands of acres, but it’s still high fenced. It just doesn’t appeal to me.


Exactly.

Not so long ago a 150” - 170” buck was highly regarded and took considerable hunting to get

Now days you can call on Thursday, show up on Friday and have your 200”+ buck plus your 150” free cull killed before Sunday
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Old 06-04-2019, 11:22 PM   #25
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Article is really trying to pull at heartstrings with all the imagery.

I'll keep hunting my low fenced property, high fence when invited, and any other places I get my hands on. I like shooting deer.
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Old 06-05-2019, 12:09 AM   #26
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And there are actual grownups that get mad and can't understand why you ask if their kill was high fence or low fence?

Those deer look terrible, very unhealthy.
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Old 06-05-2019, 01:12 AM   #27
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Interesting read.

To the ones that say they’ve lost interest or passion for hunting, what caused that? I don’t see how breeder deer programs have any bearing on the enjoyment you take personally in hunting. I love hunting as much as I ever have and will likely never shoot a >150” buck. I think part of the real problem is hunters basing their hunting success solely on inches and how it compares to other hunter’s trophies.

Worry less about what other people are proud of and start being proud of successes you’ve had in hunting. A close friend of mine has had some tremendous success hunting, but still gets just as excited to see someone put a good shot on a pig. That’s because he loves hunting and is proud of more than just the trophy.
That’s my $0.02 at least
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Old 06-05-2019, 03:26 AM   #28
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Reading this brought to mind a thread from not all that long ago..... thread was based on a pic of a guy with a buck over his back “like a backpack” getting it out of the woods. Most were shocked and couldn’t imagine how someone could be so stupid. Must be from Arkansas or a coonazz.....
It was just a guy that hunts without a box to sit in, feeder, camera where vehicles are illegal off the forest road or impossible to get where he was hunting.

Just sayin
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Old 06-05-2019, 05:57 AM   #29
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Reading this brought to mind a thread from not all that long ago..... thread was based on a pic of a guy with a buck over his back “like a backpack” getting it out of the woods. Most were shocked and couldn’t imagine how someone could be so stupid. Must be from Arkansas or a coonazz.....
It was just a guy that hunts without a box to sit in, feeder, camera where vehicles are illegal off the forest road or impossible to get where he was hunting.

Just sayin
I didnt see that one, and certainly dont think its stupid to do that. Am I too lazy to do that ( and have herniated disc already ), yes, but look UP to those that arent, not down.

We have had the ability to absolutely dominate wildlife for a long, long time. For a long time there were few of us that the imact was minimal. History has shown that that time passed on this continent around the 1850s ( I guess ). When populations were decimated we had to put in restrictions to limit it. Some were laws, others were self imposed.

I suppose ( regretably ) we are once again at the point where restrictions must be imposed ( pray its self imposed before laws are passed ). It is my hope the demand will crash once people see the actual low value of shooting a farm raised deer.

FTR: I am 100% property owner rights to high fence, but against trapping public property ( deer ). I have hunted large high fence ( not for deer ) and am not against it.
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Old 06-05-2019, 06:00 AM   #30
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I’d rather shoot a 150” free range deer than a 200” deer in any high fence. I know high fence places can be thousands of acres, but it’s still high fenced. It just doesn’t appeal to me.
Absolutely. Heck, Id rather shoot a 130 wild
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Old 06-05-2019, 06:14 AM   #31
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Guys this is such a small portion of the hunting community when you look at the state of Texas. Deer breeders are facing more scrutiny than ever do to CWD and many are getting out of the business. There will always be high fences and put and take hunting but it is not going to ruin hunting for the average hunter. It is only a small fraction of the hunters. And like previously stated it will pass as the price will over shadow demand. This is already happening with breeder buck prices.
I think we as hunters can control lease prices by not paying the high price requested for leases. Until that happens prices for all leases will continue to rise. That is my experience in 44 years of hunting and game management.


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It is, but unfortunately the world see's this article as the norm in Texas, not the exception. Anyone I talk to from out of state eventually ask if I've seen the massive deer. I end up explaining it's a tiny minority of farms that raise these deer, and that generally deer in Texas are smaller than most places up north if left to their own natural lives.

On a side note, its not the rare few who buy stocker bucks. I have a co worker who put multiple stocker/breeder bucks on their lease just to "hunt" every year. To people outside of Texas, they can't grasp how someone who doesn't even own the land would invest that kind of money into a deer. Texas is just on a different level than most of the US in terms of deer hunting.
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Old 06-05-2019, 06:34 AM   #32
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I gotta admit, I found that to be a good read. Article had a couple really good points. I hadn't thought about it before but like it mentioned almost every breeder I know has pretty much lost their interest in actually hunting themselves. I've even noticed over the years that after spending time around a lot of giant breeder deer and all the videos/pics we constantly see online of giants, I find myself getting less excited over seeing mature average deer that use to make by heart beat out of my chest. Granted, that attitude is on me to control and I have started checking myself to revisit why I'm really out there and get my heart back on the pursuit.
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Old 06-05-2019, 06:44 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by be12hunt View Post
Interesting read.

To the ones that say they’ve lost interest or passion for hunting, what caused that? I don’t see how breeder deer programs have any bearing on the enjoyment you take personally in hunting. I love hunting as much as I ever have and will likely never shoot a >150” buck. I think part of the real problem is hunters basing their hunting success solely on inches and how it compares to other hunter’s trophies.

Worry less about what other people are proud of and start being proud of successes you’ve had in hunting. A close friend of mine has had some tremendous success hunting, but still gets just as excited to see someone put a good shot on a pig. That’s because he loves hunting and is proud of more than just the trophy.
That’s my $0.02 at least
How should a hunter gauge success?

It's very easy to say "based on this or that" which tries to remove the HF equation. But in reality all of us grow up gathering info and dream about that one big buck. Old guys like me dreamed about a huge 130" 11 point...But that's because we didn't see 175"+ bucks on TV, the internet, magazines etc every day.

The point is the dream and hope is taken away now. People do things for the challenge. When they do good they like to brag (hence shoulder mounts, trophies, big fish awards etc. Just like buck record books were looked up to years ago before HF ruined them also(and cheaters).
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Old 06-05-2019, 06:48 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by RiverRat1 View Post
How should a hunter gauge success?

It's very easy to say "based on this or that" which tries to remove the HF equation. But in reality all of us grow up gathering info and dream about that one big buck. Old guys like me dreamed about a huge 130" 11 point...But that's because we didn't see 175"+ bucks on TV, the internet, magazines etc every day.

The point is the dream and hope is taken away now. People do things for the challenge. When they do good they like to brag (hence shoulder mounts, trophies, big fish awards etc. Just like buck record books were looked up to years ago before HF ruined them also(and cheaters).
I get what you're saying but I often wonder if the record books and contests weren't a big part of leading to the high fence and breeding operations that as you say "ruined it". Somebody always got to try and out do everyone else.
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Old 06-05-2019, 06:59 AM   #35
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What's changing deer hunting is this attitude that if you don't play biologist and kill some monster buck then you ain't doing it right. For many, hunting is no longer about tradition, skill, nature, etc, it's about machismo and status. Let me go pay $$$ to kill this deer so I can show off. If you don't hunt the same way or care about big horns, you're just a hater. It has nothing to do with HF or LF, it's the unnecessary attitude and competition. The article just shows a byproduct of that mentality.

Last edited by FVR JR; 06-05-2019 at 07:02 AM.
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:07 AM   #36
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#puropinchelowfence for me. Personally I would not hunt a high fence place and I would never ever hunt a scientific breeder place. Its just not what turns me on. I think its stupid and I do not understand the mind set of a man that would hunt these places. With that said its a free country and if he wants to do it I would not pass a law begrudging him. I may think he is a dumb ***** but I would not stop him from his dumb *****ery. To each his own.
I do not think these breeder deer hunt places are going to end hunting as we know it.
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:20 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by RiverRat1 View Post
How should a hunter gauge success?



It's very easy to say "based on this or that" which tries to remove the HF equation. But in reality all of us grow up gathering info and dream about that one big buck. Old guys like me dreamed about a huge 130" 11 point...But that's because we didn't see 175"+ bucks on TV, the internet, magazines etc every day.



The point is the dream and hope is taken away now. People do things for the challenge. When they do good they like to brag (hence shoulder mounts, trophies, big fish awards etc. Just like buck record books were looked up to years ago before HF ruined them also(and cheaters).


I understand your thought process and I agree with it in a general sense somewhat. To me, it’s all in your own personal way you go about it. You gotta have the right mindset. I don’t watch hunting shows .... but I do read TBH and other internet success stories. I see some of the checkbook deer and the sized deer I’ll never be able to shoot on our place unless a freak mutant happens. I know our place’s limitations and still “dream” about 135s plus.... and pursue with a bow only to add to the challenge.

I guess what I’m saying is the dream can still be there if you let it.... and if the folks you show it to don’t congratulate you on it or they aren’t excited for you for accomplishing one of your best deer you “dreamed” about, they can stuff their checkbook and their checkbook deer up their arse. I know the type that won’t...and they are pretty much ****ty narcissistic folks anyway. They post on the internet only for their own ego stroke and usually never congratulate folks on their kills no matter the size. Bleep em! There are still plenty of us that love the pursuit of a 130-150” deer though and don’t get to kill one every year or every 4-5 years for that matter. You just got to have the right mindset. It’s all in the approach.
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:25 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by jerp View Post
A friend sent me that article just today and I read it with my defenses up assuming it was another “hunting is evil” diatribe. However I found myself agreeing with much of it. Yes, deer breeding and pay-to-kill menu hunts are legal and I hesitate to give any ground to the anti-hunting movement. But this type of hunting is the opposite of what I personally think deer hunting is all about. I guess you could say I’m conflicted. On the one hand I am baffled at how anyone could feel a sense of pride and accomplishment because they wrote a five figure check and killed what is basically domestic livestock with a rocking chair on its head. On the other hand I don’t want to give any ground to those who’s ultimate goal is to ban hunting altogether

Well said.

-john
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:30 AM   #39
Smart
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Originally Posted by lovemylegacy View Post
Those deer look terrible, very unhealthy.


I wonder if that’s post rut? Kinda green to be so, but you never know. I see some good guts that look weird because of their stretched out posture.

Looks like a corn trough too.
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:35 AM   #40
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Aint no one cares anyway, cause it is all about the money. Been that way for years, aint gonna change. It's your money blow it however you want. The article is about as close to the truth as a can be.

I see the arrogance and ignorance on TBH when someone kills a 3 year old 130 and some joker comes along and says nice "cull" or should have gave it another year. A lot of guys dont post their kills on here because the mentality is the buck needs to be 5 years old and at least 150 class or you get the hall of shame. Well, a lot of folks dont have that opportunity because of location, pressure or habitat. Aint none of that matters to some on here, as long as they can belittle someone about their kill.

I have about quit posting on TBH, lost interest in in the forum in some ways and I really do not miss it.
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:44 AM   #41
AntlerCollector
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Heck if you think about it, your parents’ private “lake” full of genetically superior Camelot bass is not much different than a high fence ranch with breeder deer in it. Introduced genetics, great nutrition, confined to boundaries, culling of smaller animals, landowner decides who gets a chance at the trophy bounty.... all in the name of producing trophies of the species.

For the record, I’m not against either. It just hit me reading your post.


Sounds like a trophy high fenced fishing lake
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:53 AM   #42
BitBackShot
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Man, some of yall are letting other people define what you enjoy.

I have buddies with high fence places and I still like going and helping them manage them. Obviously it's a different scenario, but we do gambling pots like "heaviest doe", "most does in a day", etc. to keep it interesting. And even though I see 160-220 class bucks all day every day out there, I'm absolutely still thrilled to f'in death, heart pounding, buck fever'ish as a mofo when a 140 walks out at my place in the hill country.

Don't let something you disagree with define you.
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:53 AM   #43
Mexico
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If you have enough money you can buy whatever you want, including deer. It'll never stop... well at least not in my lifetime. Very good article, but to each their own. If killing a big deer in a pen is your thing then head on with your bad self...I won't judge.
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:53 AM   #44
Tx.Fisher
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I still love to hunt, but definitely don’t go near as much as I used to. Mainly because I don’t have as much free time. My last two leases were great leases and had 140-150 class bucks, one was on Llano county, the other was in Crockett county. We lost the Crockett county lease when someone offered the ranch twice what we were paying, we were out, and the new hunters were in. The Llano lease we got off when the owners decided to clear cut the entire ranch and only leave the big oaks, and jack up the price 150%. Their explanation for the clear cutting was they wanted to be able to “see the deer” when they were out there. The price increase was to offset the cost of all the “work” they were paying to have done at the ranch.
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:56 AM   #45
RiverRat1
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I understand your thought process and I agree with it in a general sense somewhat. To me, it’s all in your own personal way you go about it. You gotta have the right mindset. I don’t watch hunting shows .... but I do read TBH and other internet success stories. I see some of the checkbook deer and the sized deer I’ll never be able to shoot on our place unless a freak mutant happens. I know our place’s limitations and still “dream” about 135s plus.... and pursue with a bow only to add to the challenge.

I guess what I’m saying is the dream can still be there if you let it.... and if the folks you show it to don’t congratulate you on it or they aren’t excited for you for accomplishing one of your best deer you “dreamed” about, they can stuff their checkbook and their checkbook deer up their arse. I know the type that won’t...and they are pretty much ****ty narcissistic folks anyway. They post on the internet only for their own ego stroke and usually never congratulate folks on their kills no matter the size. Bleep em! There are still plenty of us that love the pursuit of a 130-150” deer though and don’t get to kill one every year or every 4-5 years for that matter. You just got to have the right mindset. It’s all in the approach.
I agree 100%

My post was directed towards the notion that hunting is changing so it was meant to show that people thinking about or getting into hunting don't have the "dream" (to sum up) that older guys had.

Us seasoned guys can block out the BS and do just like you said. Those who don't know better, can't. You can't live life growing up seeing/thinking a good deer is 250" and then be happy if/when you try the sport and end up with a 125" 8 point.
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Old 06-05-2019, 08:30 AM   #46
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Man, reading this is disheartening.

I still love deer hunting. Being at the lease. Cooking. Having some drinks. Watching football. HUNTING with a bow.

I am now passing the traditions down to my oldest grandson. He absolutely loves it.....and fishing.

I killed a 158 last year and a 151 the prior year. Our lease is 160 acres. No high fences in the area. I am prepared to not get that lucky for some time if ever again. The goal now shifts to mature management bucks for the kid.

I'll arrow the hogs. Lol.

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Old 06-05-2019, 08:42 AM   #47
Smart
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I still love deer hunting. Being at the lease. Cooking. Having some drinks. Watching football. HUNTING with a bow.



This is a great point. If I quit hunting and only fished, or did whatever, I would not have access to the deercamp life I enjoy as much as the pursuit of a deer or turkey.. Call me crazy but hell I enjoy the deer lease work itself and all the prep to get to the end game....even if I don't get an end game each year. I enjoy the whole experience. It's all about a whole lot more than inches and mounts. When I die, my mounts will be donated or trashed. I would hope some of the folks and kids that I shared a camp and the experiences with remember me better than where those inches will end up.
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Old 06-05-2019, 08:53 AM   #48
sotx
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This is a great point. If I quit hunting and only fished, or did whatever, I would not have access to the deercamp life I enjoy as much as the pursuit of a deer or turkey.. Call me crazy but hell I enjoy the deer lease work itself and all the prep to get to the end game....even if I don't get an end game each year. I enjoy the whole experience. It's all about a whole lot more than inches and mounts. When I die, my mounts will be donated or trashed. I would hope some of the folks and kids that I shared a camp and the experiences with remember me better than where those inches will end up.
Could not agree more
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Old 06-05-2019, 08:54 AM   #49
Jspradley
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The scenario described in the article isn't sustainable. It's a temporary boom headed towards the inevitable bust.

What's left over, post-bust, won't look like it does today.
Can millenials hurry up and kill the petting zoo deer industry while they are killing off everything else?!?!?
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Old 06-05-2019, 09:08 AM   #50
Arrowthreat
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Interesting article. I tend to agree with most of his points.
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