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Old 12-30-2019, 09:16 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by bphillips View Post
I use a Vedder lighttuck with claw attachment. Itís just kydex. Probably more comfortable options since itís rigid but itís minimal and I got used to it quick. Iím not sure I could get used to the hybrids as I donít wear an undershirt ever. Leather, suede, Or neoprene backer would get hot to me

Everyday is a Glock 48 and if a small option is needed Iíll just grab my wifeís Glock 42. Both disappear easily
Thanks! I'll check it out.

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Originally Posted by yotethumper View Post
Go for it. Appendix carry is fantastic. With the right kydex holster and belt, it is very comfortable. I had somebody try to jack my truck a couple of years ago. Had I not been carrying appendix, I would not have been able to get my gun out as fast as I did.
John from the ASP channel has some pretty sound reasons why a person shouldn't use a hybrid for CC.
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:33 PM   #152
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Watching the video I noticed a few things.. one all had a delay of drawing their concealed weapon, especially the one who was shot first and the second man shot. Third man had enough time to draw and fire. Is open carry the best solution?
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:34 PM   #153
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Watching the video I noticed a few things.. one all had a delay of drawing their concealed weapon, especially the one who was shot first and the second man shot. Third man had enough time to draw and fire. Is open carry the best solution?
Big problem with first guy was that he could draw sitting down. He had no chance when he stood to draw.
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:43 PM   #154
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The facts are out and they all trained for that very scenario, with the lethal shooter being a past deputy and a current CHL/LTC instructor.



Your irrational emotional response proved to be nothing other than irrational and emotional.


Idk man. When I took my CHL about half the class were women and about half of them had very little gun knowledge. The ďtrainingĒ we received consisted of an off duty officer walking us through some situations where a citizen used their gun and asking if we felt it was justified. Range time consisted of a few shots at 3,7,and maybe 11yrds. Most of the ladies in the class had difficulties operating their weapon.

Not saying they shouldnít have a license and carry a gun, in fact as a married man with two daughters I want all the women in my life to carry. I just think the CHL class we took was way short of any kind of training.

My youngest daughter starts the police academy on 1/8.

God bless those who stepped up to save their friends.



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Old 12-30-2019, 09:58 PM   #155
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Idk man. When I took my CHL about half the class were women and about half of them had very little gun knowledge. The ďtrainingĒ we received consisted of an off duty officer walking us through some situations where a citizen used their gun and asking if we felt it was justified. Range time consisted of a few shots at 3,7,and maybe 11yrds. Most of the ladies in the class had difficulties operating their weapon.

Not saying they shouldnít have a license and carry a gun, in fact as a married man with two daughters I want all the women in my life to carry. I just think the CHL class we took was way short of any kind of training.

My youngest daughter starts the police academy on 1/8.

God bless those who stepped up to save their friends.



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Jack Wilson was not JUST your regular chl/ltc instructor. I think the point being made was, these men have had more training than the ďjust to get my permitĒ type class that you obviously took.
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:01 PM   #156
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Jack Wilson was not JUST your regular chl/ltc instructor. I think the point being made was, these men have had more training than the ďjust to get my permitĒ type class that you obviously took.


Agree


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Old 12-30-2019, 10:11 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by bphillips View Post
I use a Vedder lighttuck with claw attachment. Itís just kydex. Probably more comfortable options since itís rigid but itís minimal and I got used to it quick. Iím not sure I could get used to the hybrids as I donít wear an undershirt ever. Leather, suede, Or neoprene backer would get hot to me

Everyday is a Glock 48 and if a small option is needed Iíll just grab my wifeís Glock 42. Both disappear easily
Vedder makes a great holster. The light tuck being my favorite from them.

Preference is appendix for me, and the N82 tactical holsters are by far the best Iíve found.
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:16 PM   #158
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Vedder makes a great holster. The light tuck being my favorite from them.



Preference is appendix for me, and the N82 tactical holsters are by far the best Iíve found.


Iíve never carried appendix. Yíall have peaked my interest. I mean this with all sincerity. I have a beer belly. Will this interfere with carrying appendix? Like I said, Iím left handed so 9 oíclock IWB is where I carry.


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Old 12-30-2019, 10:18 PM   #159
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Those guys r heros.
No way anyone can criticize a second of their actions.
Even though you may suspect something, no way can you ever prepare your mind for the worst when your just an average joe in a place of worship.

God bless them and their families.
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:35 PM   #160
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Iíve never carried appendix. Yíall have peaked my interest. I mean this with all sincerity. I have a beer belly. Will this interfere with carrying appendix? Like I said, Iím left handed so 9 oíclock IWB is where I carry.


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No sir! I feel my belly helps me conceal! 😂
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:38 PM   #161
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Default White settlement Church shooting

Jack stated he took the head shot because it was the clear shot he had at the moment. Havenít heard for sure how far the shot was, but Iím thinking around 25 feet. So roughly 8-10 yards maybe? A head shot at that distance for someone like Jack in that scenario would be pure muscle memory Iíd say.

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Old 12-30-2019, 10:43 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by BrandonA View Post
Watching the video I noticed a few things.. one all had a delay of drawing their concealed weapon, especially the one who was shot first and the second man shot. Third man had enough time to draw and fire. Is open carry the best solution?


Your observation is spot on, Iím not a fan of open carry a all though.

Concealed OWB at 3-4 oíclock or appendix IWB are both quick draw options IF you actually practice drawing and firing!

Case in point, I have carried for a long time in an all leather OWB holster, so long that it has sweat stains etc. I learned two weeks ago during practice that it had become so formed to my pistol that I could no longer draw quickly from it. Itís been replaced!
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:16 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Skinny View Post
Jack stated he took the head shot because it was the clear shot he had at the moment. Havenít heard for sure how far the shot was, but Iím thinking around 25 feet. So roughly 8-10 yards maybe? A head shot at that distance for someone like Jack in that scenario would be pure muscle memory Iíd say.
I think it was about twice that (50'). Impressive shot...even more so if it was an intentional head shot.
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Originally Posted by bboswell View Post
Your observation is spot on, Iím not a fan of open carry a all though.

Concealed OWB at 3-4 oíclock or appendix IWB are both quick draw options IF you actually practice drawing and firing!

Case in point, I have carried for a long time in an all leather OWB holster, so long that it has sweat stains etc. I learned two weeks ago during practice that it had become so formed to my pistol that I could no longer draw quickly from it. Itís been replaced!
I remember reading something a few years ago about a LEO that carried in a leather holster and simply took the holster/gun on and off for so long that when it came time to draw, the gun was essentially fused to the leather. I've been careful to not leave my guns in the holster, but it's another reason I'm switching to kydex for my cc weapon(s).
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:25 PM   #164
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Watching the video I noticed a few things.. one all had a delay of drawing their concealed weapon, especially the one who was shot first and the second man shot. Third man had enough time to draw and fire. Is open carry the best solution?
Honestly, as point blank as the guys were, would tackling the perp been a better option than drawing on him? No way can I put myself in their shoes, neither could any of us, but seems like that could have kept him from drawing his shotgun and taking shots.
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:35 PM   #165
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Honestly, as point blank as the guys were, would tackling the perp been a better option than drawing on him? No way can I put myself in their shoes, neither could any of us, but seems like that could have kept him from drawing his shotgun and taking shots.
It's what Hoffa says in "The Irishman" Knife you run, gun you lunge.


I finally watched the video and boy does it make me want to throw my LCP away and get rid of carrying pocket pistols.
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:38 PM   #166
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Honestly, as point blank as the guys were, would tackling the perp been a better option than drawing on him? No way can I put myself in their shoes, neither could any of us, but seems like that could have kept him from drawing his shotgun and taking shots.


That crossed my mind too. Especially after watching the interview with the hero. They were all very suspicious of this guy in a long coat, fake beard, wig, toboggan, hand hidden inside coat, etc. Iím not judging anyone, but it seems some sort of confrontation should have occurred before it got to the point it did.
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:45 PM   #167
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Honestly, as point blank as the guys were, would tackling the perp been a better option than drawing on him? No way can I put myself in their shoes, neither could any of us, but seems like that could have kept him from drawing his shotgun and taking shots.
The perp said something to one of the deacons. If, at that moment, the deacon had recognized the perp had a gun, then closing that distance would have been an option. John often refers to the "5D's + 1" in that situation (control Distance (the +1), deflect, dominate, distract, disarm, disable.)

Unfortunately, after drawing the perp backed up and created separation. It appears he maybe had to pump a shell into the chamber. The second guy (first victim) would not have had a chance to close the distance.
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:46 PM   #168
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That crossed my mind too. Especially after watching the interview with the hero. They were all very suspicious of this guy in a long coat, fake beard, wig, toboggan, hand hidden inside coat, etc. Iím not judging anyone, but it seems some sort of confrontation should have occurred before it got to the point it did.


We talk about this as a part of the security program at my church. As a church we want to help those in need, often people in need appearing like street panhandles, etc. Folks need to be diligent and not let their guard down when dealing with folks looking out-of-place at church.

I hate that those two men died but they were committed to protecting their congregation. Terrible situation but a fine shot finalized the issue.

Trust your gut, stay frosty.
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:59 PM   #169
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The perp said something to one of the deacons. If, at that moment, the deacon had recognized the perp had a gun, then closing that distance would have been an option. John often refers to the "5D's + 1" in that situation (control Distance (the +1), deflect, dominate, distract, disarm, disable.)



Unfortunately, after drawing the perp backed up and created separation. It appears he maybe had to pump a shell into the chamber. The second guy (first victim) would not have had a chance to close the distance.


Yep in hind sight first victim handled it wrong, Iím not gonna judge because I have never been there but had he charged instead of trying to draw while under fire everything could have been different
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Old 12-31-2019, 12:13 AM   #170
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Honestly, as point blank as the guys were, would tackling the perp been a better option than drawing on him? No way can I put myself in their shoes, neither could any of us, but seems like that could have kept him from drawing his shotgun and taking shots.
Sometimes not pulling your firearm might be the best option. This might especially be true when faced a couple of feet away from a firearm at the ready.

Could the closest guy to him have grabbed the long gun before the shooting started? Maybe. I have mentioned that to a couple of people today.

To do so would have required an instant response and knowing what you were going to do before that time came. I doubt the people involved in this incident had even gone over that situation at least in their minds. Two seconds before shots are being fired is a bad time to start making plans.

The two heroes that were shot probably only had one option in their minds and that was to try and outshoot a long gun from point blank range from a holstered weapon. They did their best.

It is hard to criticize the bravery and sacrifice and second guessing possible alternatives, however....

Failure to critique for better options can possibly lead to unnecessary injury or death in the future.

Where did the military or police learn most of their current tactics or even their weapons? It was learned many times through hard lessons on the battlefield and on streets. It was learned many times by mistakes that sometimes cost serious injuries or lives. In my opinion we do a disservice to those who have stepped up and maybe made the ultimate sacrifice if we ignore what they did and use that sacrifice to save others in the future.

Could the closest guy have pushed the gun barrel down, even if not completely disarming the bad guy? Could he have hung on for 2 seconds until help arrived? Maybe. We will never know. Maybe the closest security did think it out ahead of time and just made the instant decision that it wouldnít work. Again, we will likely never know.

But everyone that plans on being in that position or even walking through a mall with family, needs to go through scenarios in their mind by playing what if. What if this happened or what if that happened....

Merely being a good shot is sometimes not enough. Tactics can at times overcome skills.

In my opinion....
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Old 12-31-2019, 02:24 AM   #171
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Sometimes not pulling your firearm might be the best option. This might especially be true when faced a couple of feet away from a firearm at the ready.

Could the closest guy to him have grabbed the long gun before the shooting started? Maybe. I have mentioned that to a couple of people today.

To do so would have required an instant response and knowing what you were going to do before that time came. I doubt the people involved in this incident had even gone over that situation at least in their minds. Two seconds before shots are being fired is a bad time to start making plans.

The two heroes that were shot probably only had one option in their minds and that was to try and outshoot a long gun from point blank range from a holstered weapon. They did their best.

It is hard to criticize the bravery and sacrifice and second guessing possible alternatives, however....

Failure to critique for better options can possibly lead to unnecessary injury or death in the future.

Where did the military or police learn most of their current tactics or even their weapons? It was learned many times through hard lessons on the battlefield and on streets. It was learned many times by mistakes that sometimes cost serious injuries or lives. In my opinion we do a disservice to those who have stepped up and maybe made the ultimate sacrifice if we ignore what they did and use that sacrifice to save others in the future.

Could the closest guy have pushed the gun barrel down, even if not completely disarming the bad guy? Could he have hung on for 2 seconds until help arrived? Maybe. We will never know. Maybe the closest security did think it out ahead of time and just made the instant decision that it wouldnít work. Again, we will likely never know.

But everyone that plans on being in that position or even walking through a mall with family, needs to go through scenarios in their mind by playing what if. What if this happened or what if that happened....

Merely being a good shot is sometimes not enough. Tactics can at times overcome skills.

In my opinion....
excellent post
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Old 12-31-2019, 05:45 AM   #172
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Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.
John 15:13

God bless you Jack Wilson. Anton Wallace and Richard White.
Perfectly worded.
My heart aches for the deceased heroes and their loved ones.
My heart swells at the bravery of those who gave or risked their lives.
We need more men like you.
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Old 12-31-2019, 08:02 AM   #173
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I think the take away for me from this is if you are ever in a situation like this there is no substitute for training and practice. Shooting a handgun effectively in a close combat environment is all about muscle memory which only comes through multiple reps.
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Old 12-31-2019, 08:15 AM   #174
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I wont question any of their actions.
They acted.
They werent sheep.
Anyone questioning what those men did or should have done or should not have done should be ****ing ashamed of themselves - i dont give a rats **** what profession you are.

**** you beto.
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Old 12-31-2019, 08:32 AM   #175
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I wont question any of their actions.
They acted.
They werent sheep.
Anyone questioning what those men did or should have done or should not have done should be ****ing ashamed of themselves - i dont give a rats **** what profession you are.

**** you beto.
Got to agree with this. Those men stood up and gave their lives for their church.
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Old 12-31-2019, 09:38 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by tvc184 View Post
Sometimes not pulling your firearm might be the best option. This might especially be true when faced a couple of feet away from a firearm at the ready.



Could the closest guy to him have grabbed the long gun before the shooting started? Maybe. I have mentioned that to a couple of people today.



To do so would have required an instant response and knowing what you were going to do before that time came. I doubt the people involved in this incident had even gone over that situation at least in their minds. Two seconds before shots are being fired is a bad time to start making plans.



The two heroes that were shot probably only had one option in their minds and that was to try and outshoot a long gun from point blank range from a holstered weapon. They did their best.



It is hard to criticize the bravery and sacrifice and second guessing possible alternatives, however....



Failure to critique for better options can possibly lead to unnecessary injury or death in the future.



Where did the military or police learn most of their current tactics or even their weapons? It was learned many times through hard lessons on the battlefield and on streets. It was learned many times by mistakes that sometimes cost serious injuries or lives. In my opinion we do a disservice to those who have stepped up and maybe made the ultimate sacrifice if we ignore what they did and use that sacrifice to save others in the future.



Could the closest guy have pushed the gun barrel down, even if not completely disarming the bad guy? Could he have hung on for 2 seconds until help arrived? Maybe. We will never know. Maybe the closest security did think it out ahead of time and just made the instant decision that it wouldnít work. Again, we will likely never know.



But everyone that plans on being in that position or even walking through a mall with family, needs to go through scenarios in their mind by playing what if. What if this happened or what if that happened....



Merely being a good shot is sometimes not enough. Tactics can at times overcome skills.



In my opinion....


Perfectly stated. I agree.


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Old 12-31-2019, 09:58 AM   #177
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Honestly, as point blank as the guys were, would tackling the perp been a better option than drawing on him? No way can I put myself in their shoes, neither could any of us, but seems like that could have kept him from drawing his shotgun and taking shots.
for the first man this would have been the best option, but without training it's not likely many would react fast enough, when someone is ahead of you on a draw especially up close attack is possibly the only option
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Old 12-31-2019, 10:28 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by JLivi1224 View Post
Vedder makes a great holster. The light tuck being my favorite from them.

Preference is appendix for me, and the N82 tactical holsters are by far the best Iíve found.
So you carry the 48 appendix? Which model of the N82 holster are you using? How is the draw stroke coming out of it?

I have used a Crossbreed Supertuck for years with my G19 at 4 oclock, but that option leaves some to be desired.
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Old 12-31-2019, 10:33 AM   #179
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I came across this and thought it was quite entertaining. Horrible situation but definitely could have been worse.
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Old 12-31-2019, 11:40 AM   #180
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Got to agree with this. Those men stood up and gave their lives for their church.

not for the church but for their friends and families,,, these guys did not give it for a belief
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Old 12-31-2019, 12:16 PM   #181
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not for the church but for their friends and families,,, these guys did not give it for a belief
to some people, and I believe to those who seek Jesus together at that church family- that is one in the same.
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Old 12-31-2019, 12:23 PM   #182
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2017, guns are illegal in church, 46 people shot with 26 fatalities in a church in Sutherland Springs. Gunman wasnít engaged until he left the church.

2019, guns are legal in church, 2 people shot before the gunman was neutralized in 6 seconds and within feet of where he fired his first shot.

I think Texas is headed in the right direction Beto.

Horrible event, and my family will be praying for all involved in this tragedy.
Uh no. You have been able to carry in a church for long before 2017. The difference is a congregation armed and ready and one not.
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Old 12-31-2019, 02:15 PM   #183
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Good points. I believe it's safe to say that those of us ordinary civilians who carry everywhere we go may have grown just a bit too comfy with relying on our weapon and not thinking about alternatives for different scenarios.
I'm not questioning those guys at all, I'm just saying your points have made me think about some things. I just hope that I have nearly as much bravery as those guys and wouldn't just stand there and **** myself.

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Old 12-31-2019, 02:17 PM   #184
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Uh no. You have been able to carry in a church for long before 2017. The difference is a congregation armed and ready and one not.
https://www.texastribune.org/2019/05...rland-springs/

It was against the law for LTC holders to carry in church prior to September 1, 2019.
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Old 12-31-2019, 02:40 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by TGKIL View Post
https://www.texastribune.org/2019/05...rland-springs/

It was against the law for LTC holders to carry in church prior to September 1, 2019.
No it wasn't. It was several years ago (like 20 or so), but then an exception to that exclusion was put into law 20 years ago, making it legal to carry in church. Last year's bill just removed the outdated exclusion and then the exception to it, which just made the law less confusing. But it was still legal to carry in church before last year.
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Old 12-31-2019, 02:57 PM   #186
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Lefty here. Otw for me as well. Have a Fobus that I carry my Glock 22 in. The man that took a blast in the chest is Superman imo. He faced death and tried to defend others while doing it. No one can say how they will respond in that given situation but training does help. Canít remember who said this but it is so very true: ďhad you known you were gonna die today you would have trained harder yesterdayĒ.
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Old 12-31-2019, 03:02 PM   #187
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The most important thing that we all need to do is to learn from what just happened. Learn from the video. Take the knowledge with you from this point forward and make changes in your daily walk. Maybe make changes at your church. Maybe go ahead and get your license to carry. Maybe change where you carry and what you carry. Maybe take some additional classes. Maybe even change or confirm who you vote for in the next election. I will make some definite changes based upon what I saw in the video. Obviously, as clearly defined in these post, there are different perspectives on what could have or should have been done differently.The question is, what changes are you going to make?
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Old 12-31-2019, 03:10 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by bboswell View Post
Your observation is spot on, Iím not a fan of open carry....
Same here.

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Originally Posted by SmTx View Post
It's what Hoffa says in "The Irishman" Knife you run, gun you lunge.


I finally watched the video and boy does it make me want to throw my LCP away and get rid of carrying pocket pistols.
If I have my hand in my pocket it's pretty quick to draw. But not so otherwise.

When you need one it for sure needs to be in your hand. With the Glock 43 in a pocket holster that's extra time. So I bought a NAA .22 mag with a 3/4" barrel I can carry in a closed hand concealed. Not the best solution but its something in my hand.
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Old 12-31-2019, 03:30 PM   #189
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Old 12-31-2019, 05:23 PM   #190
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not for the church but for their friends and families,,, these guys did not give it for a belief
Yeah right man. You think they are a paid security detail? They are shepherds protecting their sheep so that they MAY ALL worship in peace.

There’s been a few ignorant comments on this thread and yours might just take the cake.

Last edited by HoustonHunter; 12-31-2019 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 12-31-2019, 05:33 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane View Post
No it wasn't. It was several years ago (like 20 or so), but then an exception to that exclusion was put into law 20 years ago, making it legal to carry in church. Last year's bill just removed the outdated exclusion and then the exception to it, which just made the law less confusing. But it was still legal to carry in church before last year.


The written law still prohibited carrying firearms in a church prior to SB 535. Whether it was enforced or not, it was still illegal according to state law.

Look, my original point was that Beto thinks Texas is moving backwards, and I think Texas is leading the charge when it comes to sensible 2nd Amendment regulations. Thatís all Iím trying to say...

Happy New Yearís to you all, and Iím praying for the West Freeway Church of Christ family.


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Old 12-31-2019, 05:46 PM   #192
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The written law still prohibited carrying firearms in a church prior to SB 535. Whether it was enforced or not, it was still illegal according to state law.
A bill was passed in 1997 by the Texas Legislature that removed places of worship from the list of place where carrying firearms is prohibited. It's been legal to carry in church since 1997. It's not a matter of it not being enforced. The law was changed in 1997, and it's been completely legal to carry in church for the last 22 years.

Your confusion about it is the very reason that they passed the new law last year that removed the confusing language. Nothing changed about the legality of carrying in church last year. They just cleaned up the language so it wouldn't confuse some folks anymore. You can read up on it if you care to. Doesn't really matter though. Carrying in church has been legal since '97, and it still is.
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Old 12-31-2019, 05:49 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane View Post
A bill was passed in 1997 by the Texas Legislature that removed places of worship from the list of place where carrying firearms is prohibited. It's been legal to carry in church since 1997. It's not a matter of it not being enforced. The law was changed in 1997, and it's been completely legal to carry in church for the last 22 years.

Your confusion about it is the very reason that they passed the new law last year that removed the confusing language. Nothing changed about the legality of carrying in church last year. They just cleaned up the language so it wouldn't confuse some folks anymore. You can read up on it if you care to. Doesn't really matter though. Carrying in church has been legal since '97, and it still is.


Thanks for clearing it up Shane. Happy New Yearís, and letís move on.


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Old 12-31-2019, 05:55 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TGKIL View Post
https://www.texastribune.org/2019/05...rland-springs/



It was against the law for LTC holders to carry in church prior to September 1, 2019.
Negative.

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Old 12-31-2019, 06:31 PM   #195
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Negative.

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Shane beat you to the punch, ol buddy.

Letís move on please.


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Old 12-31-2019, 07:03 PM   #196
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One of my son's teachers that was at Santafe highschool the day of the shooting, moved to the Dallas area after leaving Santafe. She said she just needed to get away because the shooting was hard for her to deal with. She goes to that Church but was out of town visiting family. Prayers for all involved.

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Old 12-31-2019, 07:04 PM   #197
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Yeah right man. You think they are a paid security detail? They are shepherds protecting their sheep so that they MAY ALL worship in peace.

There’s been a few ignorant comments on this thread and yours might just take the cake.
shows what you do not know, i was a officer at Beaumont for 30 years ( all of them on the street), 26 years a firearms instructor, the lead officer in the department issuing rifles, drew firearms courses and assisted with ammo selections and training scenarios, 25 years a training officer, the only officer ever voted onto the swat team without a tryout, even though i declined the invite i attended swat member only firearms schools, street survival schools taught by gun site instructors, competed and won gold and silver the in the state police Olympics with handgun,,, never lost a match for accuracy or speed,,, i am now retired and head of the security detail at my church, i did not volunteer i was asked to be the head,,, i fired 5 rounds on duty on attacking dogs, 5 hits, ( 3 of those dogs at once) i assisted in close quarters knife attack training and was the only officer who could shoot an attacker in less than 21 feet every time, and i did it from 8 feet,,,, from the holster... i have been a Christian for 48 of my 60 years on this earth, i am a published author of faith based poetry,,,

i have have hands on experience in things like this,, you have what,,, your opinion..... and on top of all that i said nothing derogatory about the people involved,,,

and you know nothing but your idea of what is real, i have been in some serious situations you can not begin to comprehend, i have no doubt my understanding of shepherds and sheep is far beyond your comprehension along with having reviewed and studied many hundreds of shootings,,,

so your opinion if nothing but that, your opinion,,, i will take the facts and knowledge because i have been there in real time and hands on,,, and if i go down at church this Sunday, i will be doing for people i do not know and for family and friends.. not for the belief system , the system will endure forever, the belief will not die regardless of what happens to me ,,, you see in Romans it says that the police officer is a minister appointed by God,,, i accepted my appointment long ago, even though i no longer wear the uniform my appointment as a minster has not ended, only changed, i could have walked away when i hung that uniform up the last time,,, but i decided to keep following God and were he lead me.... and if that gets me killed,,, so be it.. but i do not do it for the Church, i do it for the people, just as they did.

Last edited by xman59; 12-31-2019 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 12-31-2019, 07:33 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xman59 View Post
shows what you do not know, i was a officer at Beaumont for 30 years ( all of them on the street), 26 years a firearms instructor, the lead officer in the department issuing rifles, drew firearms courses and assisted with ammo selections and training scenarios, 25 years a training officer, the only officer ever voted onto the swat team without a tryout, even though i declined the invite i attended swat member only firearms schools, street survival schools taught by gun site instructors, competed and won gold and silver the in the state police Olympics with handgun,,, never lost a match for accuracy or speed,,, i am now retired and head of the security detail at my church, i did not volunteer i was asked to be the head,,, i fired 5 rounds on duty on attacking dogs, 5 hits, ( 3 of those dogs at once) i assisted in close quarters knife attack training and was the only officer who could shoot an attacker in less than 21 feet every time, and i did it from 8 feet,,,, from the holster... i have been a Christian for 48 of my 60 years on this earth, i am a published author of faith based poetry,,,

i have have hands on experience in things like this,, you have what,,, your opinion..... and on top of all that i said nothing derogatory about the people involved,,,

and you know nothing but your idea of what is real, i have been in some serious situations you can not begin to comprehend, i have no doubt my understanding of shepherds and sheep is far beyond your comprehension along with having reviewed and studied many hundreds of shootings,,,

so your opinion if nothing but that, your opinion,,, i will take the facts and knowledge because i have been there in real time and hands on,,, and if i go down at church this Sunday, i will be doing for people i do not know and for family and friends.. not for the belief system , the system will endure forever, the belief will not die regardless of what happens to me ,,, you see in Romans it says that the police officer is a minister appointed by God,,, i accepted my appointment long ago, even though i no longer wear the uniform my appointment as a minster has not ended, only changed, i could have walked away when i hung that uniform up the last time,,, but i decided to keep following God and were he lead me.... and if that gets me killed,,, so be it.. but i do not do it for the Church, i do it for the people, just as they did.
You forgot to add humble to your list.

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Old 12-31-2019, 07:46 PM   #199
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You forgot to add humble to your list.

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So much win...drop your keyboard, walk off and go have some champagne. Youíve wonít hear internet today.
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Old 12-31-2019, 08:06 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xman59 View Post
shows what you do not know, i was a officer at Beaumont for 30 years ( all of them on the street), 26 years a firearms instructor, the lead officer in the department issuing rifles, drew firearms courses and assisted with ammo selections and training scenarios, 25 years a training officer, the only officer ever voted onto the swat team without a tryout, even though i declined the invite i attended swat member only firearms schools, street survival schools taught by gun site instructors, competed and won gold and silver the in the state police Olympics with handgun,,, never lost a match for accuracy or speed,,, i am now retired and head of the security detail at my church, i did not volunteer i was asked to be the head,,, i fired 5 rounds on duty on attacking dogs, 5 hits, ( 3 of those dogs at once) i assisted in close quarters knife attack training and was the only officer who could shoot an attacker in less than 21 feet every time, and i did it from 8 feet,,,, from the holster... i have been a Christian for 48 of my 60 years on this earth, i am a published author of faith based poetry,,,

i have have hands on experience in things like this,, you have what,,, your opinion..... and on top of all that i said nothing derogatory about the people involved,,,

and you know nothing but your idea of what is real, i have been in some serious situations you can not begin to comprehend, i have no doubt my understanding of shepherds and sheep is far beyond your comprehension along with having reviewed and studied many hundreds of shootings,,,

so your opinion if nothing but that, your opinion,,, i will take the facts and knowledge because i have been there in real time and hands on,,, and if i go down at church this Sunday, i will be doing for people i do not know and for family and friends.. not for the belief system , the system will endure forever, the belief will not die regardless of what happens to me ,,, you see in Romans it says that the police officer is a minister appointed by God,,, i accepted my appointment long ago, even though i no longer wear the uniform my appointment as a minster has not ended, only changed, i could have walked away when i hung that uniform up the last time,,, but i decided to keep following God and were he lead me.... and if that gets me killed,,, so be it.. but i do not do it for the Church, i do it for the people, just as they did.
https://youtu.be/_284RNK8eCo
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