Light on AR

[bigtex76]

Thinking about putting a light on a AR. Which ones do you guys prefer?

[Artos]

mod lite...

[imyomama]

surefire

[sog45]

Surefire, by a mile

[Artos]

modlite smokes SF for a rifle mounted application...not cheap. I like the SF for a sidearm


https://modlite.com/collections/weap...31630445740068

While lumen output with this light is similar to the Surefire® M600DF head the throw is much better suited to a rifle mounted application at more than three times the amount throw than the M600DF.

[Clay C]

What’s your budget?

Mod lite or Cloud defensive. Surefire is great and obviously has a long track record, but performance wise they are getting outpaced very quickly but the other two. Unless you need IR capability.

For a bit cheaper option than the above I like Arisaka.

[Artos]

Arisaka mounts are nifty...

[Clay C]

Originally Posted by Artos

Arisaka mounts are nifty...

I have several. They’re nice. Their lights don’t have the lumens of the others, but they have higher candela than the Surefire and they’re really small and lightweight.

[QuackHunter]

Originally Posted by Artos

mod lite...

This man knows. Modlite or surfire are top in the game. If you don’t want to spend that much then go streamlight. Anything below that won’t be of any quality


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[TX03RUBI]

Modlite for a rifle. SF comes in second, but not very close.

[bigtex76]

Originally Posted by Clay C

What’s your budget?

Mod lite or Cloud defensive. Surefire is great and obviously has a long track record, but performance wise they are getting outpaced very quickly but the other two. Unless you need IR capability.

For a bit cheaper option than the above I like Arisaka.

$250 or less

[fish4food]

VTac mount with a G2.
SF X300
Inforce

[futureagg]

TLR 1 HL is what I was use for my AR and it doubles as my pistol light as well. Under $150


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[EastTexun]

Nobody asked you what it was for so I will. Self defense, shooting stuff in the dark up close, or shooting out there?

[TacticalCowboy]

Originally Posted by futureagg

TLR 1 HL is what I was use for my AR and it doubles as my pistol light as well. Under $150


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Me too

[TX03RUBI]

So I decided to set up an upper on my tripod and take some pics tonight comparing my Modlite OKW vs my SureFire M600DF. Like I said. The 600DF (1500 Lumen flagship rifle light for SF) isn’t even close.

SureFire M600DF


Modlite OKW

[pervis]

I dont have one on a gun, but ive got a surefire thats a 1k lumen its good stuff runs on 3 cr123 batteries. That bottom pic is good of that suggested light. I likes me some bright flashlights

[QuackHunter]

Originally Posted by TX03RUBI

So I decided to set up an upper on my tripod and take some pics tonight comparing my Modlite OKW vs my SureFire M600DF. Like I said. The 600DF (1500 Lumen flagship rifle light for SF) isn’t even close.

SureFire M600DF
Attachment 1041528

Modlite OKW
Attachment 1041529

Modlite blows everything out of the water in terms of technology and customer service. That said the owners was personally a massive a hole to me which was not appreciated. I love the PLHV2 I have and it’s a killer product but man he needs some work


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[fish4food]

Originally Posted by TX03RUBI

So I decided to set up an upper on my tripod and take some pics tonight comparing my Modlite OKW vs my SureFire M600DF. Like I said. The 600DF (1500 Lumen flagship rifle light for SF) isn’t even close.

SureFire M600DF
Attachment 1041528

Modlite OKW
Attachment 1041529

Dang!!! Nothing like a good side by side comparison.

[imyomama]

on a hunting gun, sure . on a tactical AR , you'll be blinded too and if there is more than one foe, you'll be dead before your eyes re-adjust ... hard pass of me on an AR .i'd choose light #1... you can do your own test at home .. with a pistol light too .. turn it on to aim at say a bad guy behind your couch , if you turn the light back off and you can't see the room any more, you probably have too much light. too much of a good thing is not always a good thing... my want in a tactical rifle light are , rugged , remote quality temp switch , secondary switch on the light itself ,focused beam , waterproof, shockproof and all that jazz .. overall brightness is not necessarily a top priority , nor is qd mount as i just leave it on. last note don't underestimate your muzzle device and it's effect on your light , ive seen guys with giant brakes who can't see squat when the gas looks like a giant white cloud in front of their gun due to light reflection.. another example of too much is not always better ... kinda like using your brights in fog ... good luck!

[TX03RUBI]

Originally Posted by imyomama

on a hunting gun, sure . on a tactical AR , you'll be blinded too and if there is more than one foe, you'll be dead before your eyes re-adjust ... hard pass of me on an AR .i'd choose light #1... you can do your own test at home .. with a pistol light too .. turn it on to aim at say a bad guy behind your couch , if you turn the light back off and you can't see the room any more, you probably have too much light. too much of a good thing is not always a good thing... my want in a tactical rifle light are , rugged , remote quality temp switch , secondary switch on the light itself ,focused beam , waterproof, shockproof and all that jazz .. overall brightness is not necessarily a top priority , nor is qd mount as i just leave it on. last note don't underestimate your muzzle device and it's effect on your light , ive seen guys with giant brakes who can't see squat when the gas looks like a giant white cloud in front of their gun due to light reflection.. another example of too much is not always better ... kinda like using your brights in fog ... good luck!

Anyone using a brake indoors deserves everything they get. Light is the least of their worries. I don’t have any intentions of clearing a house with a 17” rifle, so we’re good there as well. As for switches they take any Surefire switch while being as durable or more durable of a light. For the sake of argument I through the OKW on my 11.5 last night just to see what I thought indoors. Still preferred it to the Surefire.

[BigJimmyRustler]

Originally Posted by imyomama

on a hunting gun, sure . on a tactical AR , you'll be blinded too and if there is more than one foe, you'll be dead before your eyes re-adjust ... hard pass of me on an AR .i'd choose light #1... you can do your own test at home .. with a pistol light too .. turn it on to aim at say a bad guy behind your couch , if you turn the light back off and you can't see the room any more, you probably have too much light. too much of a good thing is not always a good thing... my want in a tactical rifle light are , rugged , remote quality temp switch , secondary switch on the light itself ,focused beam , waterproof, shockproof and all that jazz .. overall brightness is not necessarily a top priority , nor is qd mount as i just leave it on. last note don't underestimate your muzzle device and it's effect on your light , ive seen guys with giant brakes who can't see squat when the gas looks like a giant white cloud in front of their gun due to light reflection.. another example of too much is not always better ... kinda like using your brights in fog ... good luck!

More lumens & candela is better than less, people who have tested and trained and been in a more gunfights and killed more people than us have determined this already.

If you blind yourself, you weren't using the light correctly.

If there is more than one threat and their will to fight isn't immediately broken by a white light coming on combined with loud firm commands or you touching off rounds you're likely dead anyway, real life isn't John Wick.

[imyomama]

do yourself a favor and go look at youtube at haley strategic , Trex arms or others .. they do this all day ... and would totally make fun of that suppressor shadow and glare on the can which screams amateur night...



and BTY i never said clearing a house with a 17" rifle or using brakes indoor ...

done with this conversation .. always seems like the same people are know it all .. then post their pic with their can casting a shadow on half of the pic

here is an example of reliable places to go look for real information .. peace OUT!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o28...nnel=T.REXARMS

[Riceguy]

Originally Posted by Clay C

What’s your budget?

Mod lite or Cloud defensive. Surefire is great and obviously has a long track record, but performance wise they are getting outpaced very quickly but the other two. Unless you need IR capability.

For a bit cheaper option than the above I like Arisaka.

I picked up a Cloud Defensive light during black Friday but haven't mounted yet. How would you compare to Mod lite?

[Clay C]

Originally Posted by Riceguy

I picked up a Cloud Defensive light during black Friday but haven't mounted yet. How would you compare to Mod lite?

I used to have an OWL. I got rid of it because it was a huge, heavy thing. It was like having an additional suppressor on the end of your rifle. I liked the light color/temp better than my Modlite. It allowed you to see really good detail. I know the new Reign is smaller/lighter, but haven't had a chance to try one yet. For the performance and form factor, I don't think anyone can beat Modlite right now

[TX03RUBI]

Originally Posted by imyomama

do yourself a favor and go look at youtube at haley strategic , Trex arms or others .. they do this all day ... and would totally make fun of that suppressor shadow and glare on the can which screams amateur night...



and BTY i never said clearing a house with a 17" rifle or using brakes indoor ...

done with this conversation .. always seems like the same people are know it all .. then post their pic with their can casting a shadow on half of the pic

here is an example of reliable places to go look for real information .. peace OUT!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o28...nnel=T.REXARMS

Trex Arms seriously? That’s the best you can come up with? He’s a joke to anyone that actually use their arms for anything but YouTube videos. You lost all credibility right there haha

I don’t care about shadow on this rifle. It’s a 17” rifle I use for killing hogs and coyotes. I use what’s comfortable, and until a switch for it comes back in stock this light isn’t moving. It’s where I can comfortably press the tailcap switch.

[Clay C]

Originally Posted by imyomama

do yourself a favor and go look at youtube at haley strategic , Trex arms or others .. they do this all day ... and would totally make fun of that suppressor shadow and glare on the can which screams amateur night...



and BTY i never said clearing a house with a 17" rifle or using brakes indoor ...

done with this conversation .. always seems like the same people are know it all .. then post their pic with their can casting a shadow on half of the pic

here is an example of reliable places to go look for real information .. peace OUT!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o28...nnel=T.REXARMS

Wait, even if you are someone that takes Lucas at Trex arms seriously, doesn't he use and suggest those lights that according to you are too bright (Modlite)?

[Clay C]

Originally Posted by TX03RUBI

Trex Arms seriously? That’s the best you can come up with? He’s a joke to anyone that actually use their arms for anything but YouTube videos. You lost all credibility right there haha

I don’t care about shadow on this rifle. It’s a 17” rifle I use for killing hogs and coyotes. I use what’s comfortable, and until a switch for it comes back in stock this light isn’t moving. It’s where I can comfortably press the tailcap switch.

Are you even a real shooter unless you quit a competition because you don't want to do the part that requires lifting things?

[Riceguy]

Originally Posted by Clay C

I used to have an OWL. I got rid of it because it was a huge, heavy thing. It was like having an additional suppressor on the end of your rifle. I liked the light color/temp better than my Modlite. It allowed you to see really good detail. I know the new Reign is smaller/lighter, but haven't had a chance to try one yet. For the performance and form factor, I don't think anyone can beat Modlite right now

Gotcha - yeah I picked up the REIN, so I’ll see how it goes.

[Clay C]

Originally Posted by Riceguy

Gotcha - yeah I picked up the REIN, so I’ll see how it goes.

I'm sure it will be great. I'll probably pick up a REIN Micro at some point.

[TX03RUBI]

I’m sorry guys. I’m not trying to be mr tactical Devgru room clearer like Imyomama. I simply posted a picture to compare the two outputs, as well as my opinion on them. I haven’t found a situation where I prefer my 600DF, but it does stay on my bedside rifle as it does a good enough job for that purpose.

[TX03RUBI]

Originally Posted by Clay C

Are you even a real shooter unless you quit a competition because you don't want to do the part that requires lifting things?

It’s all about the gram! Gotta have that IG credibility!

[imyomama]

Originally Posted by Clay C

Are you even a real shooter unless you quit a competition because you don't want to do the part that requires lifting things?

ahah .. i'm glad i'm not the only one .. when a guy put down everyone else , including guys who clearly have the skills and actually train LOE's and people whose life rely on their equipment ... then post pics showing massive light with massive shadows banging on their chest like a cave man.

notice he didn't say crap about Travis .. nor is he posting any night tactical match he have used this on or even participated .

he calls Lucas a joke while his own skill level is self admitting he doesn't even own a remote tail cap ...

it's hilarious!

i'll gladly retract my post and offer an apology as soon as he posts a video of him shooting a night course anywhere close to lucas's pace and accuracy .. proving Lucas is a fraud and knows less than he does ... pretty sure not gonna happen ..

[TX03RUBI]

Originally Posted by imyomama

ahah .. i'm glad i'm not the only one .. when a guy put down everyone else , including guys who clearly have the skills and actually train LOE's and people whose life rely on their equipment ... then post pics showing massive light with massive shadows banging on their chest like a cave man.

notice he didn't say crap about Travis .. nor is he posting any night tactical match he have used this on or even participated .

he calls Lucas a joke while his own skill level is self admitting he doesn't even own a remote tail cap ...

it's hilarious!

i'll gladly retract my post and offer an apology as soon as he posts a video of him shooting a night course anywhere close to lucas's pace and accuracy .. proving Lucas is a fraud and knows less than he does ... pretty sure not gonna happen ..

I don’t need an apology from you. I’m not a tier one door kicker like yourself, nor do I claim to be. I posted pics to show output. This light was ordered for this rifle which is a hunting rifle. I’m not the least bit concerned if it’s not tactical enough for you. If my light offends you then so be it. Most women and liberals do get offended easily. Which one are you?

Trex is a still a joke much like yourself haha

[TX03RUBI]

Also Clay was making fun of you. It’s apparent his thoughts on Lucas are the same lol

[imyomama]

Originally Posted by TX03RUBI

I’m sorry guys. I’m not trying to be mr tactical Devgru room clearer like Imyomama. I simply posted a picture to compare the two outputs, as well as my opinion on them. I haven’t found a situation where I prefer my 600DF, but it does stay on my bedside rifle as it does a good enough job for that purpose.

never said i was .. and only pointing for advice in the direction of people who actually do this for work or a living ... but as an amateur , i've shot a few night time tactical matches , enough to know what works for me and what doesn't ... and pretty much your setup is used by .... nobody!

you however seem to know it all and what you say is always right .. and take a mili second to call people out , put word in their mouth in your reply and just play talking trash ..

you know they make those 3 foot dish lights that really throw out some light too ... maybe you could wheel that in for comparison ...

lastly , and again from my practical experience , shoot an ar with red dot and a light .. too much light and red dot totally washed out... turn your red dot too high and you can't see crap when light is off ... you want the right balance between your light and your optic ... and 1500 lumens ain't it!

same thing goes inside, put out so much light as the entire room lights up and the bad guys can see you too .. it's not know it all tacticool , it's just plain logic

again peace out!

[TX03RUBI]

Originally Posted by imyomama

never said i was .. and only pointing for advice in the direction of people who actually do this for work or a living ... but as an amateur , i've shot a few night time tactical matches , enough to know what works for me and what doesn't ... and pretty much your setup is used by .... nobody!

you however seem to know it all and what you say is always right .. and take a mili second to call people out , put word in their mouth in your reply and just play talking trash ..

you know they make those 3 foot dish lights that really throw out some light too ... maybe you could wheel that in for comparison ...

lastly , and again from my practical experience , shoot an ar with red dot and a light .. too much light and red dot totally washed out... turn your red dot too high and you can't see crap when light is off ... you want the right balance between your light and your optic ... and 1500 lumens ain't it!

same thing goes inside, put out so much light as the entire room lights up and the bad guys can see you too .. it's not know it all tacticool , it's just plain logic

again peace out!

The Surefire is 1500 lumens. The Modlite is 660. LOLOL


What part of this rifle is used for hunting do you not get? My 600DF resides on an 11.5” 556 with a tape switch beside my bed. It’s setup for “room clearing” or whatever you seem to think I care about. It’s my defensive rifle and is setup as so. I don’t care that it has shadow it works for me. This is a truck gun that I can jump out and hit some hogs or a coyote with. This light is what I want for THIS rifle. I want throw the most out of it, which it is. It also has excellent spill which works well for THIS rifle. Anybody else can take a look at the pictures and make up their mind what works for THEIR rifle. I don’t give a crap what they buy or use.

I’ll say this. I completely felt the OKW would be horrible indoors as well. A buddy that runs a shoot house for the NNSA told me to give it a try anyways, and I might like it. I got these out to take pics last night for another buddy. I then compared them indoors as well. To my surprise he was right. I did prefer the OKW still indoors as well. This is the original reason for me taking the pics and comparing them.

[BigJimmyRustler]

Originally Posted by imyomama

never said i was .. and only pointing for advice in the direction of people who actually do this for work or a living ... but as an amateur , i've shot a few night time tactical matches , enough to know what works for me and what doesn't ... and pretty much your setup is used by .... nobody!

you however seem to know it all and what you say is always right .. and take a mili second to call people out , put word in their mouth in your reply and just play talking trash ..

you know they make those 3 foot dish lights that really throw out some light too ... maybe you could wheel that in for comparison ...

lastly , and again from my practical experience , shoot an ar with red dot and a light .. too much light and red dot totally washed out... turn your red dot too high and you can't see crap when light is off ... you want the right balance between your light and your optic ... and 1500 lumens ain't it!

same thing goes inside, put out so much light as the entire room lights up and the bad guys can see you too .. it's not know it all tacticool , it's just plain logic

again peace out!

[imyomama]

Originally Posted by TX03RUBI

The Surefire is 1500 lumens. The Modlite is 660. LOLOL


What part of this rifle is used for hunting do you not get? My 600DF resides on an 11.5” 556 with a tape switch beside my bed. It’s setup for “room clearing” or whatever you seem to think I care about. It’s my defensive rifle and is setup as so. I don’t care that it has shadow it works for me. This is a truck gun that I can jump out and hit some hogs or a coyote with. This light is what I want for THIS rifle. I want throw the most out of it, which it is. It also has excellent spill which works well for THIS rifle. Anybody else can take a look at the pictures and make up their mind what works for THEIR rifle. I don’t give a crap what they buy or use.

I’ll say this. I completely felt the OKW would be horrible indoors as well. A buddy that runs a shoot house for the NNSA told me to give it a try anyways, and I might like it. I got these out to take pics last night for another buddy. I then compared them indoors as well. To my surprise he was right. I did prefer the OKW still indoors as well.

you do you booboo..

[Clay C]

Originally Posted by imyomama

never said i was .. and only pointing for advice in the direction of people who actually do this for work or a living ... but as an amateur , i've shot a few night time tactical matches , enough to know what works for me and what doesn't ... and pretty much your setup is used by .... nobody!

you however seem to know it all and what you say is always right .. and take a mili second to call people out , put word in their mouth in your reply and just play talking trash ..

you know they make those 3 foot dish lights that really throw out some light too ... maybe you could wheel that in for comparison ...

lastly , and again from my practical experience , shoot an ar with red dot and a light .. too much light and red dot totally washed out... turn your red dot too high and you can't see crap when light is off ... you want the right balance between your light and your optic ... and 1500 lumens ain't it!

same thing goes inside, put out so much light as the entire room lights up and the bad guys can see you too .. it's not know it all tacticool , it's just plain logic

again peace out!

I'm really not understanding. You claim our lights to be too bright. Then to back up your statements, you point to people who use the lights you claim to be too bright.

Am I supposed to be shocked that 2 people who make and sell products that are specifically designed to eliminate barrel/suppressor shadow tell you it's super bad?

The only one in here acting like they know everything and making definitive statements is none other than, drum roll please........

[TX03RUBI]

Originally Posted by Clay C

I'm really not understanding. You claim our lights to be too bright. Then to back up your statements, you point to people who use the lights you claim to be too bright.

Am I supposed to be shocked that 2 people who make and sell products that are specifically designed to eliminate barrel/suppressor shadow tell you it's super bad?

The only one in here acting like they know everything and making definitive statements is none other than, drum roll please........

don’t get no logic in here. Lucas is king and nobody better argue that

[bigtex76]

Sounds like modlight is the one to get.

[Artos]

Originally Posted by bigtex76

Sounds like modlight is the one to get.

buy once - cry once...get the arisaka mount.

[QuackHunter]

Originally Posted by imyomama

on a hunting gun, sure . on a tactical AR , you'll be blinded too and if there is more than one foe, you'll be dead before your eyes re-adjust ... hard pass of me on an AR .i'd choose light #1... you can do your own test at home .. with a pistol light too .. turn it on to aim at say a bad guy behind your couch , if you turn the light back off and you can't see the room any more, you probably have too much light. too much of a good thing is not always a good thing... my want in a tactical rifle light are , rugged , remote quality temp switch , secondary switch on the light itself ,focused beam , waterproof, shockproof and all that jazz .. overall brightness is not necessarily a top priority , nor is qd mount as i just leave it on. last note don't underestimate your muzzle device and it's effect on your light , ive seen guys with giant brakes who can't see squat when the gas looks like a giant white cloud in front of their gun due to light reflection.. another example of too much is not always better ... kinda like using your brights in fog ... good luck!

You can’t shoot what you can’t see, target identification is high on the list and there’s lots of guys with experience running lights in tactical situations where it proves a massive advantage rather than disadvantage. Both on a pistol and rifle are excellent pieces of kit to have.


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[QuackHunter]

Originally Posted by imyomama

do yourself a favor and go look at youtube at haley strategic , Trex arms or others .. they do this all day ... and would totally make fun of that suppressor shadow and glare on the can which screams amateur night...



and BTY i never said clearing a house with a 17" rifle or using brakes indoor ...

done with this conversation .. always seems like the same people are know it all .. then post their pic with their can casting a shadow on half of the pic

here is an example of reliable places to go look for real information .. peace OUT!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o28...nnel=T.REXARMS

I mean unless you’re running the light out flush with the end of the can you’re going to have a shadow. You can run a TRex light bar but odds are you’ll still have a shadow from the can, I run mine relatively far out.


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[QuackHunter]

Originally Posted by TX03RUBI

Trex Arms seriously? That’s the best you can come up with? He’s a joke to anyone that actually use their arms for anything but YouTube videos. You lost all credibility right there haha

I don’t care about shadow on this rifle. It’s a 17” rifle I use for killing hogs and coyotes. I use what’s comfortable, and until a switch for it comes back in stock this light isn’t moving. It’s where I can comfortably press the tailcap switch.

That sounds like a very Ill informed comment. What are you basing your opinion on? He constantly promotes training, fighting for your rights, and owning quality gear and learning how to use it. The only argument I see people have is “he isn’t mil or le” guess what mil and le don’t get to spend 90% of their time shooting they have tons of aspects to work.


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[imyomama]

Originally Posted by Clay C

I'm really not understanding. You claim our lights to be too bright. Then to back up your statements, you point to people who use the lights you claim to be too bright.

Am I supposed to be shocked that 2 people who make and sell products that are specifically designed to eliminate barrel/suppressor shadow tell you it's super bad?

The only one in here acting like they know everything and making definitive statements is none other than, drum roll please........

no actually , all i said was surefire was a good light , i never went into a specific model ..

your buddy is the one who continued with mine is bigger and better than yours .. all my point is that it's not true . anyone who has ever shot a red dot at night will attest to much light can cause wash out .. but again yall do what you want , and talk all the smack you want .. my surefire on my gun has never failed me , never washed out my optics , doesn't cast a shadow , and uses a pressure pad with a switch on the light itself ... and it's output is nowhere near what is available today ...

we could argue all day ... and you'll keep defending your buddies and that's fine too .. and you can try to discredit Travis and Lucas all you want, but i've seen how they train and practice , so sorry .. i'm gonna lean toward their opinions over yours .. because i've followed their tips before and they were spot on.

[imyomama]

Originally Posted by QuackHunter

That sounds like a very Ill informed comment. What are you basing your opinion on? He constantly promotes training, fighting for your rights, and owning quality gear and learning how to use it. The only argument I see people have is “he isn’t mil or le” guess what mil and le don’t get to spend 90% of their time shooting they have tons of aspects to work.


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exactly!
talk smack about guys who test and bring products to the market to help our troops , LEO and even them .... not to mention the instructional videos , practice drills etc .. which are totally fantastic if you'd give them a try.


often those are the same guys who show up at a shoot with their gucci guns and end up sitting on the bench cause their gear won't run

[BigJimmyRustler]

Originally Posted by QuackHunter

That sounds like a very Ill informed comment. What are you basing your opinion on? He constantly promotes training, fighting for your rights, and owning quality gear and learning how to use it. The only argument I see people have is “he isn’t mil or le” guess what mil and le don’t get to spend 90% of their time shooting they have tons of aspects to work.

I'm cool with the kid, he's a little bit of a dork but he's a huge proponent for the 2A community which is awesome.

I think a lot of the apprehension with Lucas is that people would rather take gunfighting tips from someone that's actually been in a gunfight before. There's so many good instructors out there with real-world two-way range knowledge thanks to the GWOT that his info can come across as less pertinent. He's a hell of a shooter for sure but its a different world when the targets are shooting back.

[QuackHunter]

Originally Posted by BigJimmyRustler

I'm cool with the kid, he's a little bit of a dork but he's a huge proponent for the 2A community which is awesome.

I think a lot of the apprehension with Lucas is that people would rather take gunfighting tips from someone that's actually been in a gunfight before. There's so many good instructors out there with real-world two-way range knowledge thanks to the GWOT that his info can come across as less pertinent. He's a hell of a shooter for sure but its a different world when the targets are shooting back.

That’s the thing though is he doesn’t teach tactics or gun fighting. He teaches shooting, like you said their are qualified guys to go to who have been in situations. That said you don’t have to have been in situations to know mechanics and tactics. He just wants people on the range, learning, and getting better.


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