The Elk Thread

[Randy M]

I'm going purely after meat/experience this year. Put in for WY cow elk. Higher probability of drawing/tagging out (hopefully). Will be hunting with my 454 Casull assuming I draw.

[zins708]

Anyone get any hits on their card yet for AZ? Nothing here yet and I know they are running slower this year.


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[wytex]

Randy M where are you hunting up here ?
And, is your Casull a rifle or pistol ? Spouse has 2 Rossi/Puma rifles and a Freedom Arms pistol. Rifles are great to shoot, pistol not so much fun.
Either will wok great on a cow .

[Bill]

For you folks submitting applications for drawing tags, this may he of interest. I use OnX Hunt all the time, both hunting and search & rescue.

Just remember to download the area you’re going prior while on WiFi. Then you have the full map and information with no cell service. Otherwise- you’re flying blind.




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[texas shag]

Originally Posted by zins708

Anyone get any hits on their card yet for AZ? Nothing here yet and I know they are running slower this year.


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I believe Arizona is supposed to start hitting cards tomorrow.

[justletmein]

Bill, thanks for the heads up. I already have an active Elite membership from last year so I'm curious to see what the Toprut and such have to offer.

[zins708]

Originally Posted by texas shag

I believe Arizona is supposed to start hitting cards tomorrow.

I got an email from AZFG stating they extended the deadline to update cc info until tomorrow, I guess they are drawing after that. They have been having a ton of IT issues.


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[BuckSmasher]

Is New Mexico worth applying to? I have done it for 10 years, probably into it for $500 or $600 in fees and nothing to show for it.

I was looking up the premium elk hunts and for my top three the best odds for the third choice is a 3% chance of drawing. Not looking for an opportunity hunt.

My question is, is applying in New Mexico for trophy units only basically a stupid tax on wannabe elk trophy hunters?

[wytex]

Originally Posted by BuckSmasher

Is New Mexico worth applying to? I have done it for 10 years, probably into it for $500 or $600 in fees and nothing to show for it.

I was looking up the premium elk hunts and for my top three the best odds for the third choice is a 3% chance of drawing. Not looking for an opportunity hunt.

My question is, is applying in New Mexico for trophy units only basically a stupid tax on wannabe elk trophy hunters?

Had you been applying in Wyoming and/or buying PP for those 10 years you could be hunting a trophy area this fall.
If the changes in LQ allocations go through next year those odds will be much higher in 2022.

NM produces some huge bulls no doubt but I wonder about those draw odds.

[jaker_cc]

Originally Posted by BuckSmasher

Is New Mexico worth applying to? I have done it for 10 years, probably into it for $500 or $600 in fees and nothing to show for it.

I was looking up the premium elk hunts and for my top three the best odds for the third choice is a 3% chance of drawing. Not looking for an opportunity hunt.

My question is, is applying in New Mexico for trophy units only basically a stupid tax on wannabe elk trophy hunters?

Someone’s got to draw those tags. If you don’t put in for them it’s guaranteed to not be you. Over ten years you’re only out 50 a year to have the opportunity at a world class elk hunt.

You’re the only one that can know if it’s worth it to you or not. It’s worth it to me

[BassMaster13]

not worth it save your money..

[BuckSmasher]

Originally Posted by wytex

Had you been applying in Wyoming and/or buying PP for those 10 years you could be hunting a trophy area this fall.
If the changes in LQ allocations go through next year those odds will be much higher in 2022.

NM produces some huge bulls no doubt but I wonder about those draw odds.

What will they do that makes it easier to draw in 2022? Hopefully doing away with landowner tags and the outfitter pool?

I have 2 less than max in Wyoming, not sure how I want to spend them, but definitely looking to spend them next year. Just planning on focusing on Idaho only this year unless I draw a crazy random good tag in Utah or NM, if I even put in for NM.

Originally Posted by jaker_cc

Someone’s got to draw those tags. If you don’t put in for them it’s guaranteed to not be you. Over ten years you’re only out 50 a year to have the opportunity at a world class elk hunt.

You’re the only one that can know if it’s worth it to you or not. It’s worth it to me

That has what has kept me applying all these years but the odds are only 1 in 25 or lower...

Originally Posted by BassMaster13

not worth it save your money..

Lol I won't be affecting your odds much either way.

[Texans42]

Originally Posted by BuckSmasher

Is New Mexico worth applying to? I have done it for 10 years, probably into it for $500 or $600 in fees and nothing to show for it.

I was looking up the premium elk hunts and for my top three the best odds for the third choice is a 3% chance of drawing. Not looking for an opportunity hunt.

My question is, is applying in New Mexico for trophy units only basically a stupid tax on wannabe elk trophy hunters?

Yes, don’t waste your money.

[BuckSmasher]

Originally Posted by Texans42

Yes, don’t waste your money.

Let me re-phrase the question.


Has anyone on the GS ever drawn a premium NM elk tag?

[Felix40]

Originally Posted by BuckSmasher

Let me re-phrase the question.


Has anyone on the GS ever drawn a premium NM elk tag?

I have yet to draw a premium elk tag and I am a resident. I still get to hunt every year but the odds of a nonresident being successful on the hunts I've drawn is pretty low.

[El General]

Originally Posted by BuckSmasher

Let me re-phrase the question.


Has anyone on the GS ever drawn a premium NM elk tag?

I know of two dudes that have drawn premium tags, one drew one of the good gila units the first year he applied. I can remember a couple of dudes on here that have drawn premium tags there as well.

[Texans42]

Originally Posted by BuckSmasher

Let me re-phrase the question.


Has anyone on the GS ever drawn a premium NM elk tag?

One of my good friends drew back to back gila tags.

What do you consider a trophy?

[jaker_cc]

I drew one of the best deer tags in the state, and arguably the best antelope tag in the state back to back.

[armadillophil]

Originally Posted by BuckSmasher

Let me re-phrase the question.


Has anyone on the GS ever drawn a premium NM elk tag?

I drew archery Unit 34 in 2018. Hoping for a repeat!!

[Jmh05]

We applied for Montana's General Big Game combo elk/deer. We have paid deposits with an outfitter friend. We are adding OTC black bear and wolf when permits open in Aug.

I've also applied for NM Mule deer in three regions. Looking forward to future adventures.

[Bill]

Good luck on the Montana drawing.

Where abouts does your friend guide?


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[wytex]

Sorry, my wording was wrong. Odds will get worse for LQ tags in Wyoming if the 90/10 allocation gets passed. Residents will get a hard quota of 90% of LQ elk tags and NR only 10%.
However, more General elk licenses will be available due to a hard quota on total NR elk licenses set by state statute. The LQ tags taken away will roll over into general elk tags.

[El General]

Originally Posted by wytex

Sorry, my wording was wrong. Odds will get worse for LQ tags in Wyoming if the 90/10 allocation gets passed. Residents will get a hard quota of 90% of LQ elk tags and NR only 10%.
However, more General elk licenses will be available due to a hard quota on total NR elk licenses set by state statute. The LQ tags taken away will roll over into general elk tags.

So, should I be looking to use my 3-4 points in Wyoming or keep saving for the 7-8 point unit that has a little creep where I have an outfitter buddy that can put me on them.

[BuckSmasher]

Originally Posted by Felix40

I have yet to draw a premium elk tag and I am a resident. I still get to hunt every year but the odds of a nonresident being successful on the hunts I've drawn is pretty low.

How many years have you been a resident? I would have thought that as a NM resident you could have a pretty good (maybe not premium) elk tag every year correct?

Originally Posted by El General

I know of two dudes that have drawn premium tags, one drew one of the good gila units the first year he applied. I can remember a couple of dudes on here that have drawn premium tags there as well.

Knowing it happens gives me hope. Enough hope to throw my $80 non refundable at them again I guess!

Originally Posted by Texans42

One of my good friends drew back to back gila tags.

What do you consider a trophy?

Pretty much any free range elk is a trophy. Any bull over 330 is definitely a trophy. A premium hunt though, is a unit with lots of elk, good age structure of bulls and good bull/cow ratio. A premium hunt should also have at least a slim chance of a REALLY big bull 360+ gross.

Originally Posted by jaker_cc

I drew one of the best deer tags in the state, and arguably the best antelope tag in the state back to back.

Y'all talked me into it, again. Hate to donate money to those liberal weirdos but here goes, lol.

Originally Posted by armadillophil

I drew archery Unit 34 in 2018. Hoping for a repeat!!

Good Luck!

[Slick8]

Submitted my donation last night to NM. Likely about the same as most of the Texas draw hunts if not better.

[wytex]

Originally Posted by El General

So, should I be looking to use my 3-4 points in Wyoming or keep saving for the 7-8 point unit that has a little creep where I have an outfitter buddy that can put me on them.

If the 90/10 proposal passes then more General elk tags will be in the draw for NR and less LQ.
That 7-8 PP area may well go to 10+ to draw.
Next year will be telling for NR and our elk draw.

We may well end up with say 1,000 more NR general elk hunters across the state. That may well lead to us hunting wilderness areas for the first time to get away from the increased pressure, or we may draw that good LQ tag easier.

[ELKAHOLIC]

Originally Posted by BuckSmasher

Let me re-phrase the question.


Has anyone on the GS ever drawn a premium NM elk tag?

I drew a 16d tag the first year I put in for NM 2010

[Jmh05]

Originally Posted by Bill

Good luck on the Montana drawing.

Where abouts does your friend guide?


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We will be out of Missoula up near the Bob. We spent 10 days there this summer fishing the back country. It was amazing.

[LWC]

Originally Posted by ELKAHOLIC

I drew a 16d tag the first year I put in for NM 2010

Glad you got the tag. NR odds have gotten considerably worse since 2010

[BuckSmasher]

Y'all talked me in to it.

Hopefully I reference this post after the draw to brag about my Valles Caldera Elk Tag and Florida Mountains Rifle Ibex!

[ELKAHOLIC]

Originally Posted by LWC

Glad you got the tag. NR odds have gotten considerably worse since 2010

Yup. I got lucky and drew a less desirable tag last year. A tag every 10 years is actually not bad. My brother has been putting in for 16 years and still has not drawn.

[Diamond07]

First year putting in for NM Elk. Second year elk hunting. Crossing my fingers!

[Bill]

Good luck. We are in SW Montana near Dillon.


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[texas shag]

year 8 for the NM tithe on my end. Still waiting to draw, but most of it is my fault for putting into premium units only. I guess I have about a month to find out if this year is the year......

[NMStickFlinger3]

Originally Posted by BuckSmasher

Y'all talked me in to it.

Hopefully I reference this post after the draw to brag about my Valles Caldera Elk Tag and Florida Mountains Rifle Ibex!

These are once in a lifetime tags........which even residents never get the opportunity to have. If these are the same tags you have been applying to for the past 10 years, you have nothing to complain about!!!

[BuckSmasher]

Originally Posted by NMStickFlinger3

These are once in a lifetime tags........which even residents never get the opportunity to have. If these are the same tags you have been applying to for the past 10 years, you have nothing to complain about!!!

I have tried it all. Over a decade ago i used to apply for first archery tags in 51, 52, 45, 34, 36 so on and so on. Tried for all the 'good opportunity hunt' units with archery. No tags.

Now then for me to leave Idaho, with tons of opportunity hunts, some within a few miles of my house, for the cost of a $35 tag, I want it to be a slam bang good hunt if i am gonna drive down there.

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[CSF45]

Originally Posted by armadillophil

I drew archery Unit 34 in 2018. Hoping for a repeat!!

That’s one I’m trying to draw this year. My first time applying for a western hunt!

[Etxnoodler]

Originally Posted by wytex

If the 90/10 proposal passes then more General elk tags will be in the draw for NR and less LQ.
That 7-8 PP area may well go to 10+ to draw.
Next year will be telling for NR and our elk draw.

We may well end up with say 1,000 more NR general elk hunters across the state. That may well lead to us hunting wilderness areas for the first time to get away from the increased pressure, or we may draw that good LQ tag easier.

When will we know about the 90/10 split? Seems stupid for Wyoming. Will lose non resident hunters unless pronghorn and mule deer have a minimum number of tags also. And since we pay their bills they need to stop crapping on us.

[Jmh05]

Originally Posted by Bill

Good luck. We are in SW Montana near Dillon.


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We should be in a good position. Our tags are general, not special permit. Our outfitter typically only runs spike camps, but he's going to do a fully guided hunt. He's been hunting the area for 25yrs and we've got 8 days of hunting starting with opening day on the 15th of Sep. Should be a heck of a trip. Montana is one of the most beautiful places I've been. On that summer trip, we rode 80 miles on horseback through the back country. It was a dream and I can't wait to return.

[wytex]

Originally Posted by Etxnoodler

When will we know about the 90/10 split? Seems stupid for Wyoming. Will lose non resident hunters unless pronghorn and mule deer have a minimum number of tags also. And since we pay their bills they need to stop crapping on us.

There have been miles written about this proposal.
Residents want more LQ tags and especially for moose and sheep.
The Wildlife Task force is working on a new proposal now for next year.

I bet Wyoming does not loose any NR hunters over it but it will affect those that have been building PP for some species.
Right now every license not drawn in resident draw for deer and pronghorn get put in NR draw, that is one thing residents want changed. Right now NR get a majority of our pronghorn tags, not a set quota. Residents want a set quota before the leftover draw.

Numbers have been run and WG&F can make up any revenue losses with license increases.

By the way the Wyoming Outfitters Association is pushing for huge price increases for elk tags in Wyoming. They are not your friend on this.

I'm on the fence. Yes, I'm all for residents getting more sheep and moose tags and LQ elk tags. I also have been in favor of under allocated licenses going right into the leftover pool and not to NR.
I am not in favor of the huge NR price increase but do support a resident price increase.

Just watch, Colorado will be making changes as well. Your OTC tags may be in jeopardy in the near future according to talk going around up here.

Sadly it is pitting residents against NR. We just want a larger share of our licenses but NR have financial investments in our PP system and they need to be taken care of.

[Etxnoodler]

How is in non residents fault that residents dont pply for all of their tags? They want to be able to buy 3 leftover tags before non residents get a chance at one. Which the way western states are going I hope they aren’t surprised when nobody shows up to help them when they are in need. I like supporting wyomimg but they are starting to make it hard.

[TWarren]

Originally Posted by BuckSmasher

How many years have you been a resident? I would have thought that as a NM resident you could have a pretty good (maybe not premium) elk tag every year correct?

Absolutely not the case. Even for residents the draw odds for most of the top tier elk units is <10%.

[wytex]

Originally Posted by Etxnoodler

How is in non residents fault that residents dont pply for all of their tags? They want to be able to buy 3 leftover tags before non residents get a chance at one. Which the way western states are going I hope they aren’t surprised when nobody shows up to help them when they are in need. I like supporting wyomimg but they are starting to make it hard.

We want you to have a hard quota, that is all. Maybe have access to extra tags in the leftover draw . No one is saying no licenses for NR except you.
Apps are up every year, we will not hurt if this passes but thanks for your concern.

[BuckSmasher]

Originally Posted by Etxnoodler

How is in non residents fault that residents dont pply for all of their tags? They want to be able to buy 3 leftover tags before non residents get a chance at one. Which the way western states are going I hope they aren’t surprised when nobody shows up to help them when they are in need. I like supporting wyomimg but they are starting to make it hard.

Originally Posted by wytex

We want you to have a hard quota, that is all. Maybe have access to extra tags in the leftover draw . No one is saying no licenses for NR except you.
Apps are up every year, we will not hurt if this passes but thanks for your concern.

Truth of the matter is license fees for residents AND non-residents could go up significantly across the board for residents and nonresidents and that would solve a bunch of issues right away.

[justletmein]

Originally Posted by Etxnoodler

When will we know about the 90/10 split? Seems stupid for Wyoming. Will lose non resident hunters unless pronghorn and mule deer have a minimum number of tags also. And since we pay their bills they need to stop crapping on us.

They won't lose NR's, they're issuing the same number of tags but the rest will be going into General instead of LQ. That way the revenue doesn't drop.

It's tough for any of the Western states to manage the hunting, the demand is constantly going up and everybody is vying for more opportunity. It's really a no win game for all involved unless Bill Gates gets his way and knocks the world's population in half. When my kids are my age I'm expecting the common man to be priced out or an Elk hunt will be a once in 20 years type of thing.

[justletmein]

Originally Posted by BuckSmasher

Truth of the matter is license fees for residents AND non-residents could go up significantly across the board for residents and nonresidents and that would solve a bunch of issues right away.

Depends on the definition of the word solve, it'll reduce demand for sure but it also might make hunting only available for the well off/rich. I don't think most people want that.

[BuckSmasher]

Originally Posted by justletmein

They won't lose NR's, they're issuing the same number of tags but the rest will be going into General instead of LQ. That way the revenue doesn't drop.

It's tough for any of the Western states to manage the hunting, the demand is constantly going up and everybody is vying for more opportunity. It's really a no win game for all involved unless Bill Gates gets his way and knocks the world's population in half. When my kids are my age I'm expecting the common man to be priced out or an Elk hunt will be a once in 20 years type of thing.

Unfortunately this is my fear as well. The changes I have seen since my first elk hunt in 1999 are widespread and drastic.

As I said earlier, a big tag cost increase would help a lot with the scarcity of elk tags.

[BuckSmasher]

Originally Posted by justletmein

Depends on the definition of the word solve, it'll reduce demand for sure but it also might make hunting only available for the well off/rich. I don't think most people want that.

Hunting out of state elk isn't an opportunity thing. It is a desire thing. I hunted whitetails in Texas with a $80 combo hunting and fishing license.

It WILL make hunting less egalitarian. It will also put Elk hunting out of reach of a lot of people. But it has to happen. More Deer are shot every year in popular whitetails state than Elk live in most Rocky Mountain states.

For example, 374,000 deer were killed in 2019/2020 hunting season in PA. https://www.google.com/search?q=penn...hrome&ie=UTF-8

The total elk population of Idaho is around 120,000 animals.... That is the problem.

How to make that fair, yet still make it obtainable is higher cost tags. A $3500 tag would cut down on the PA whitetail hunters that could afford a tag every year, sure. But anyone that wanted to bad enough could save up for a few years, and be confident in getting a tag. That is better than the current situation where everyone is scrambling and not being able to depend on even getting a tag.

[Etxnoodler]

Originally Posted by justletmein

They won't lose NR's, they're issuing the same number of tags but the rest will be going into General instead of LQ. That way the revenue doesn't drop.

It's tough for any of the Western states to manage the hunting, the demand is constantly going up and everybody is vying for more opportunity. It's really a no win game for all involved unless Bill Gates gets his way and knocks the world's population in half. When my kids are my age I'm expecting the common man to be priced out or an Elk hunt will be a once in 20 years type of thing.

They will if this applies to all species across the board and pronghorn and Mule deer don’t have a set number dedicated to non residents like elk does.

[Etxnoodler]

Originally Posted by wytex

We want you to have a hard quota, that is all. Maybe have access to extra tags in the leftover draw . No one is saying no licenses for NR except you.
Apps are up every year, we will not hurt if this passes but thanks for your concern.

I didnt say no non resident tags. But your complaining that tags that weren’t applied for by residents are going to non residents because y’all want to be able to have 4 of them from a leftover list. Since nonresidents pay way more for theirs than residents you will lose money unless either y’all pay more or substantially increase non resident tags fees. Also. I didn’t mean in need financially, but when they force more wolves, or grizzly on y’all or start hocking off public lands dont expect nonresidents to show up to help.