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Old 02-27-2021, 08:20 PM   #1
skeeterboud
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Default more energy option for ar-15 platform??

killed dozens and dozens.... of pigs from rice fields/woods, etc with hornady 55gr sp training ammo from a rock river arms 24" barrel. really can't remember losing any. put my nv on a 16" ar to trim a bunch of weight and have now been unable to recover 6 of the last 15. same ammo.. yeah, i know it is prob. hundreds of fps slower.. what uppers are available for a bit more k.o. power? i reload, if that helps
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Old 02-27-2021, 08:23 PM   #2
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Grendel or 6.8
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Old 02-27-2021, 08:26 PM   #3
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and all i have to do is take the upper off and replace it? will mag's still fit? (i know very very little of ar's)
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Old 02-27-2021, 08:30 PM   #4
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Don't know about 6.8 mags but grendel mags are unique to that round. A complete upper with bcg will fit right on your lower.
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Old 02-27-2021, 08:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeterboud View Post
and all i have to do is take the upper off and replace it? will mag's still fit? (i know very very little of ar's)
Need barrel swap, bolt, and mags for 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 spc
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Old 02-27-2021, 08:49 PM   #6
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77 grain?
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Old 02-27-2021, 09:19 PM   #7
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6.8 needs her own mags...300 BO uses the same 5.56
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Old 02-27-2021, 09:33 PM   #8
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You can fit between 3 & 8, 6.8 rounds in a standard 223 mag, and it will function.
Having a 30rnd mag, that only has 5 rnds in it though isn't very efficient.
6.8 mags are all going to be steel, unless you get a LWRCI, in which case you can buy P-Mags.
If going with a short barrel, I would choose the 6.8.
There's also the 25-45 or whatever name you want to call it, if you want to be different .
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Old 02-27-2021, 09:45 PM   #9
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6.8spc, 6.5 grendel or 300 BO.
You can slap any of these complete uppers on your existing 5.6 rifle lower by pulling the two pins and slapping it on. You can put 3 or 4 grendel rounds in a 20 round 5.6 magazine to get by but the grendel and 6.8 need their own.
Grendel will shoot 120 grain projectiles good. 6.8 about same bullet weight 300 a little heavier bullets slower.
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Old 02-27-2021, 10:31 PM   #10
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Got to a 77 grain, I shoot the IMI it is some hot stuff. We have yet to loose anything shot with it.
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Old 02-27-2021, 11:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Got to a 77 grain, I shoot the IMI it is some hot stuff. We have yet to loose anything shot with it.


What length barrel are you shooting the IMI ammo?


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Old 02-28-2021, 12:03 AM   #12
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I'm sold on grendel. Good luck with ammo though
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Old 02-28-2021, 02:46 AM   #13
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Look up the 25-45 sharps caliber by Sharps Rifle Co. All that is required is a barrel swap from a 5.56 and everything else is the same. The cartridge is simply a 223/556 case necked up to .257. No fire forming or case cutting required and you can throw an 87/90 grn pill near 3k fps from the AR-15 platform.
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Old 02-28-2021, 06:29 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadHatter View Post
You can fit between 3 & 8, 6.8 rounds in a standard 223 mag, and it will function.
Having a 30rnd mag, that only has 5 rnds in it though isn't very efficient.
6.8 mags are all going to be steel, unless you get a LWRCI, in which case you can buy P-Mags.
If going with a short barrel, I would choose the 6.8.
There's also the 25-45 or whatever name you want to call it, if you want to be different .
That 25-45 Sharps is a wicked round, but doesn't look to have caught on.
350 Legend will go in an AR15 platform. We have had very good luck with it. Slaps the snot out of a hog. Effective range will be decreased though, as with 300 BO.
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Old 02-28-2021, 06:31 AM   #15
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I'd probably go with a .224 Valkyrie if I was switching cartridges. But I'd probably try a heavier grain bonded bullet in .223 beforehand. I've seen where softpoints blew up on bone while huntin coyotes and they don't have near the mass that a hog does. Often times bullet selection can make a difference. For your intended use I think a bonded bullet would do a lot better.
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Old 02-28-2021, 10:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUZZYSLINGR View Post
What length barrel are you shooting the IMI ammo?


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It is a 16" 8 twist
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Old 02-28-2021, 11:08 AM   #17
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I’ve had good luck with 62 Gr bonded and 75 Gr BTHP. 77s did ok, but not as good IMO. My got to has been the 75 BTHP for the past 3 years, and lots of pigs have died to it. I run them in a 17” 8 twist.
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Old 02-28-2021, 11:32 AM   #18
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We kill tons of pigs with the cheap 7.62x39..
Run duramags and have 0 feeding issues
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Old 02-28-2021, 12:12 PM   #19
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With a 8 twist you could certainly try heavier bullets before you buy another upper. That being said, if you get a grendel you'll never regret it.

Last edited by Walker; 02-28-2021 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 02-28-2021, 12:22 PM   #20
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You can’t beat a .450 Bushmaster inside of 250 yards
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Old 02-28-2021, 01:16 PM   #21
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Another vote for 6.5 Grendel. You could also use 69 or 75 gr rounds with your current set up for something a little beefier. Not the biggest fan of 300 Blk.

You’ll need barrel, BCG, and mags.
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Old 02-28-2021, 01:22 PM   #22
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There's been 2 mentions of just a barrel swap. That's not the way to go. Get a complete upper with bcg and your good. Barrel swap is a good bit more complicated and then you won't have a .556 anymore.
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Old 02-28-2021, 05:08 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walker View Post
There's been 2 mentions of just a barrel swap. That's not the way to go. Get a complete upper with bcg and your good. Barrel swap is a good bit more complicated and then you won't have a .556 anymore.
Definitely more complicated than a complete upper swap, but not difficult.
Did op get rid of the rock river with the 24” barrel?
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Old 02-28-2021, 05:14 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by bustacap View Post
Definitely more complicated than a complete upper swap, but not difficult.
Did op get rid of the rock river with the 24” barrel?
How is more complicated than a complete upper swap?
What am I missing?
I've only swapped barrels & bolts more than once, and have had 0 issues.
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Old 02-28-2021, 05:20 PM   #25
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458 socom will hammer hogs,, 300 gr hp at about 1800-1900 fps,,,, there is never any doubt if you hit the target and blood trails if they are needed ( rarely needed) are massive ! kinda thinking about selling my upper with ammo, just not sure if i want too!
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Old 02-28-2021, 05:39 PM   #26
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this was just the feedback i was looking for.. since brass is scarce, and i have plenty of 5.56 brass/pwder/primers, i'll first reload some 70 speer, and 75 bthp i have. i have two ar's 1:8, so that will be easy. i'll def. be looking for some grendel stuff in the future. sportsmans guide has a couple uppers, now. popped a couple last monday w ear shots.
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Old 02-28-2021, 05:41 PM   #27
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i still have the rra varmint a4....it's not for sale.. but it is crazy accurate..with anything you shoot through it. only drawback, it's an 11lb'er
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Old 02-28-2021, 05:49 PM   #28
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Default more energy option for ar-15 platform??

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadHatter View Post
How is more complicated than a complete upper swap?
What am I missing?
I've only swapped barrels & bolts more than once, and have had 0 issues.

An upper and BCG swap takes 30 seconds... if you’re slow.

Also swapping barrels you have to change out your optics and rezero. Swapping uppers, you can keep your optics zerod


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Old 02-28-2021, 06:00 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye07 View Post
An upper and BCG swap takes 30 seconds... if you’re slow.

Also swapping barrels you have to change out your optics and rezero. Swapping uppers, you can keep your optics zerod


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Plus your handgard and you gas tube and gas block.

Last edited by Walker; 02-28-2021 at 06:33 PM.
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Old 02-28-2021, 06:48 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye07 View Post
An upper and BCG swap takes 30 seconds... if you’re slow.

Also swapping barrels you have to change out your optics and rezero. Swapping uppers, you can keep your optics zerod


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walker View Post
Plus your handgard and you gas tube and gas block.
10-4, I didn't realize those things were considered complicated.
When someone says barrel swap, I have always assumed those things were taken for granted.
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Old 02-28-2021, 09:18 PM   #31
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I am a AR nut. I have 5.56, 7.62x39, Grendel, 25-45, 6x45, 30 American, 350 Legend, 450 Bushmaster, 458 Socom, and a Beowulf. The thermal lives on the 7.62. With the availability of the Wolf 154 gr SP ammo, I don't bother chasing brass, and I bought a bunch of it when it was available.
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Old 02-28-2021, 09:47 PM   #32
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With a 350 Legend, you can use the same bolt, possibly the mag. A 6.5 Grendel, would be a good choice, but you will have to change the bolt and mags. Then the same goes for the 6.8 SPC. Then there is the 450 Bushmaster, it will require a different bolt and mags. Then there is the 25-45, it's basically a 223 case necked up to 25 caliber, very similar to the old 6mm TCU and 7mm TCU. Which both of those would not be bad choices. Then there is the 458 SOCOM, 375 SOCOM and the 50 Beowulf. On all three of those cases, you also need to make sure you have a large ejection port, those cases are pretty fat. Then the 300 Blackout and 7.62x 39.

The 350 Legend, would be the quickest, cheapest way to get to where you want to be. The Grendel would be a good choice also. The big bore calibers can greatly step up how much energy you hit them with.

Last edited by RifleBowPistol; 02-28-2021 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 03-01-2021, 11:01 AM   #33
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same reason a 16" grendel won't perform as well as a 24".

here is some real data on ar15 platform. https://www.everydaymarksman.co/equi...rel-selection/

any calibers where you derive from their optimal length barrel to shorten them up will suffer in performance ... chop a 7mag to 16" and it's no longer a 7 mag add insult to injury, the bullets made for 7 mag are usually harder and won't expand as well at lower speed either...

take the new craze 8" 556 ... and they are almost the performance of a 22mag ...

I run a faxon pencil 20" on my 556 pig gun .. for that exact reason. and it's still just a hair over 6LBS.
but i won't use it on steel up close , it really craters ar500 bad.
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Old 03-01-2021, 11:40 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imyomama View Post
same reason a 16" grendel won't perform as well as a 24".

here is some real data on ar15 platform. https://www.everydaymarksman.co/equi...rel-selection/

any calibers where you derive from their optimal length barrel to shorten them up will suffer in performance ... chop a 7mag to 16" and it's no longer a 7 mag add insult to injury, the bullets made for 7 mag are usually harder and won't expand as well at lower speed either...

take the new craze 8" 556 ... and they are almost the performance of a 22mag ...

I run a faxon pencil 20" on my 556 pig gun .. for that exact reason. and it's still just a hair over 6LBS.
but i won't use it on steel up close , it really craters ar500 bad.
Yeah, a lot of people miss this.
16" barrel on both, the 6.8 has the edge out to 500 yards.
If you're a paper puncher, the Grendel is probably in your best interest.
Hunting scenarios, the Grendel has no advantage other than a slight increase in SD.
The 6.5 needs a longer barrel, but most I see are running short barrels, talking about how superior the 6.5 is to the 6.8.
Here is some good reading on it.

https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/6-...s-6-5-grendel/
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Old 03-01-2021, 12:24 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadHatter View Post
Yeah, a lot of people miss this.
16" barrel on both, the 6.8 has the edge out to 500 yards.
If you're a paper puncher, the Grendel is probably in your best interest.
Hunting scenarios, the Grendel has no advantage other than a slight increase in SD.
The 6.5 needs a longer barrel, but most I see are running short barrels, talking about how superior the 6.5 is to the 6.8.
Here is some good reading on it.

https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/6-...s-6-5-grendel/
yep, i have a 16" 6.8 , a 24" grendel , a few 16" blackout , 16 and 20" 556 .. and they will all lose pigs with less than perfect shots .. i even lost one with 20" 308 and it looked like it lost a gallon of blood ... then nothing .. must have been on meth or something ... if you hunt in the open on fields , most savvy hunter just hit them twice ... for good measure .. most time where i hunt , it's so thick , you only see them for 20 to 30 yards ... i just go neck shot .. got one this weekend with the blackout barnes 110's, walking around , they came from behind us, we were talking .. they bolted , hit her on the run right behind the shoulder , not a drop of blood , ran 50 yards under cedars ... it was a ***** to find her even with the full moon .. probably would have made no difference with a howitzer .
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Old 03-01-2021, 04:16 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadHatter View Post
Yeah, a lot of people miss this.
16" barrel on both, the 6.8 has the edge out to 500 yards.
If you're a paper puncher, the Grendel is probably in your best interest.
Hunting scenarios, the Grendel has no advantage other than a slight increase in SD.
The 6.5 needs a longer barrel, but most I see are running short barrels, talking about how superior the 6.5 is to the 6.8.
Here is some good reading on it.

https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/6-...s-6-5-grendel/
Based on the information in your provided link, the 16” Grendel has the edge on the 6.8 in energy (beyond 100yds) and wind drift at any distance. Because of this, I would have to disagree with you and say the Grendel has the advantage in both, hunting scenarios and paper punching.
I have, and load, for both. If I could only have one, it would be the Grendel.
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Old 03-01-2021, 04:58 PM   #37
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I went with 6x45. One pass of .223 brass through the 6x45 die, add a primer, powder and a 6 mm bullet and you have a loaded 6x45. Same bolt as a .223, just a different barrel. I really like mine. And .223 brass is plentiful and free at my range. I have a little trouble depriming crimped brass so I look for uncrimped brass.
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Old 03-02-2021, 08:55 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadHatter View Post
Yeah, a lot of people miss this.
16" barrel on both, the 6.8 has the edge out to 500 yards.
If you're a paper puncher, the Grendel is probably in your best interest.
Hunting scenarios, the Grendel has no advantage other than a slight increase in SD.
The 6.5 needs a longer barrel, but most I see are running short barrels, talking about how superior the 6.5 is to the 6.8.
Here is some good reading on it.

https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/6-...s-6-5-grendel/
I disagree about the grendel needing longer barrels, I get a bit over 2300 2200 fps (edit: had to go double check) out my 12.5" with 123 ssts.

Last edited by sir shovelhands; 03-02-2021 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 03-02-2021, 09:20 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sir shovelhands View Post
I disagree about the grendel needing longer barrels, I get a bit over 2300 2200 fps (edit: had to go double check) out my 12.5" with 123 ssts.
Thats what about what I am getting with my 12" too. Pigs do not like it. lol
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Old 03-02-2021, 12:26 PM   #40
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Grendel! I have a hardened arms 24" bull barrel that is a tack driver with factory ammo. I just changed barrels to a 18", and after I changed the gas block and handguard, I should have just bought a complete upper. Absolutely love my grendel, hogs, coyotes, skunks, even my 10 pt this year. Awesome caliber.
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Old 03-02-2021, 04:47 PM   #41
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I’d say 6.8 or 6.5 grendel for fast flat shooting rounds. I don’t have personal experience with the 6.8 but my 16” grendel has flopped 95% of hogs I’ve shot using 120gr eldm.

You could also go with the 350legend/450 bush/458 socom for a heavy hitter but you loose the range of the others. My 458 flips them pretty good using 325gr ftx bullets.

Also don’t pass up the good ol cheap 7.62x39
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Old 03-02-2021, 09:05 PM   #42
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I'd say Grendel or 6.8 SPC. I'm currently down sizing because I just load for way too many different calibers and some are redundant. I love my Grendel but don't need it anymore so,,,,

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Old 03-02-2021, 09:38 PM   #43
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also check out wilson combat 300 hamr
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Old 03-04-2021, 11:48 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelbow View Post
also check out wilson combat 300 hamr
This is what I was going to suggest. I have not looked into the balistics of this round yet but it has seem to create quite the buzz. I am not optomistic that it will be so much better that it would justify the cost of swapping my 6.5 grendel upper for though.
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Old 03-04-2021, 12:10 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sir shovelhands View Post
I disagree about the grendel needing longer barrels, I get a bit over 2300 2200 fps (edit: had to go double check) out my 12.5" with 123 ssts.
From Ballistic AE.
24" grendel sst123 muzzle 2591fps energy 1833
100 yards 2424fps. energy 1609

12.5"grendel SST123. muzzle 2210fps. energy 1334
100 yards. 2061fps. energy 1160

24" has almost 40% more energy at 100 yards

12.5" grendel is just about the same as a 16" 300 blk .
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Old 03-04-2021, 01:19 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imyomama View Post
From Ballistic AE.
24" grendel sst123 muzzle 2591fps energy 1833
100 yards 2424fps. energy 1609

12.5"grendel SST123. muzzle 2210fps. energy 1334
100 yards. 2061fps. energy 1160

24" has almost 40% more energy at 100 yards

12.5" grendel is just about the same as a 16" 300 blk .
Interesting info for sure, I wouldn't have thought it would be that large of a percentage. With that said 1160 is not bad knockdown power and if combined with a well placed shot you shouldnt have an issue.
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Old 03-04-2021, 06:31 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imyomama View Post
From Ballistic AE.
24" grendel sst123 muzzle 2591fps energy 1833
100 yards 2424fps. energy 1609

12.5"grendel SST123. muzzle 2210fps. energy 1334
100 yards. 2061fps. energy 1160

24" has almost 40% more energy at 100 yards

12.5" grendel is just about the same as a 16" 300 blk .
A 400 fps drop for 12" aint bad at all.

As for it being similar to the 300 blk, at the muzzle sure, but with it's high BC, you'll stay above the expansion velocity threshold (1500 fps) for 123 ssts out to 500 yards while retaining the same energy as a 357 mag at the muzzle.

Last edited by sir shovelhands; 03-04-2021 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 03-04-2021, 06:37 PM   #48
sir shovelhands
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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For comparison, a 110 grain tsx from a 16" 300 blk at 2300 fps will get you to 375 yards before dropping below the expansion velocity threshold (1300 fps) with a good bit less power than a 357 mag at the muzzle.
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