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Old 11-23-2022, 12:33 PM   #1
Ricochet83
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Default Opinions on why its so hard to find leases

So i have been pondering this alot lately as i have been on the search for 2 years now for a lease for 3 somewhere in the hill country with what i would consider a healthy budget and minimal hunting pressure as i am really the only deer hunter and the other 2 want turkeys' hogs and so forth with an occasional deer (every other year). But it seems almost impossible to find a place to lease. I know others have the same problem by the posts i see on here and other forums. So what gives when and why did it become so difficult to find a place? I tend to think alot of it has to do with generational issues such as the first and some second generation property owners are getting to the age where if they are still alive they dont want to mess with the property anymore and properties are now getting handed down or willed to the next generation and they want nothing to do with the property so they sell it off and make their money. Curious as to what the opinions are on here as to why it has become the way it has become. Then to maybe its just me and i am to hung up on finding that needle in a haystack.
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Old 11-23-2022, 12:46 PM   #2
AntlerCollector
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Hill country and minimum hunting pressure is almost an impossible combination. You’re making it hard on yourself. Lower your standards and there are leases to be found. Just about every hunter on here would like to hunt a place like your looking for
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Old 11-23-2022, 12:49 PM   #3
Ricochet83
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The minimal hunting pressure comment was referring to our group of three. Sorry about that. Being during deer season the other 2 in the group may go out 1 time. I completely get that there is going to be pressure from the surrounding properties and i am ok with that just noting we arent shoot em up cowboys.
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Old 11-23-2022, 12:52 PM   #4
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Gotcha on the hunting pressure comment. That makes more sense.




https://discussions.texasbowhunter.c...ghlight=leases


Not sure if you saw it or not, but this is a thread of available leases. You may find one to your liking. If not maybe something until what you want shows up. Good luck.





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Old 11-23-2022, 12:57 PM   #5
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I think it's hard because it's an invite only party. All the good ones, cheap or expensive, close or far, have someone on the lease. That someone finds the next members. It's not hard to fill. It's a 10 walking into a bar at 2 a.m kinda thing.

Open your network or contacts and let your friends know your looking, then remind them until you find something. Customer service or sales friends are great to remind as they interact and talk to a lot of people.

You can also package hunt and let the landowner or outfitter know you're looking. Sometimes they say screw guiding and switch to a lease structure.

My .02. Hope it helps.

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Old 11-23-2022, 12:57 PM   #6
rut-ro
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I think landowners not wanting to deal with the hassle and or kids inheriting land and wanting to sell it. I have some buddies on a 900 acre lease in junction where they have maybe taken 10 deer in 5 years. They mainly go just to get away and enjoy life and let the kids shoot animals.
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Old 11-23-2022, 01:00 PM   #7
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Too many people and too few available properties. Population is growing and acreage available for hunting is dwindling quickly. Plain and simple. When supply is low and demand is high the select few get to partake. That means more money, and good references. Most of the good properties have people waiting to get on, and they are all people a lease member knows or is related to.
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Old 11-23-2022, 01:01 PM   #8
Capt.Bryan
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With the amount of people from California and New York moving to central Texas the available hunting properties are getting few and far between. Top that with windmill, solar and oil the land owners do not need hunters to pay the taxes any more.
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Old 11-23-2022, 01:14 PM   #9
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I contribute it to fragmentation and idiots. Landowners with huntable size tracts and who truly don't need lease money simply won't deal with the drama. Folks used to be land poor and needed that supplemental income, but many of those old timers have died off or the properties have sold because of sky high land prices. I may be way off base, but that is my thoughts on it. Lol
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Old 11-23-2022, 01:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rut-ro View Post
I think landowners not wanting to deal with the hassle and or kids inheriting land and wanting to sell it. I have some buddies on a 900 acre lease in junction where they have maybe taken 10 deer in 5 years. They mainly go just to get away and enjoy life and let the kids shoot animals.
This describes two different local guys 1 his family has 12000 acres
His cousin runs 1/3 of it and has been leasing, Paul refuses to lease anything, says 1 he doesnít need the money,2 leasing is a major headache and intrusion
Mark down the road is desperate to keep his hunters for the cash flow
But his dad & sister could care less about leasing and only do so to
Keep mark from selling off more of the ranch for lifestyle .
The new Hillcounrty is going down hill fast , expensive, high pressure
Urbanization,
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Old 11-23-2022, 01:19 PM   #11
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Lots of people have bought land to hunt for themselves and their families. Almost all of the people I have hunted with in the past own their ranches and don’t lease anymore.
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Old 11-23-2022, 01:32 PM   #12
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That new Starbucks sits on ground that great grandad used to hunt.
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Old 11-23-2022, 01:41 PM   #13
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Supply and demand is the east answer, especially in the hill country. Also Iíve heard of outfitters going to landowners and offering top $. Didnít believe it but itís happening to us and the main group has been on the lease 26 years. Landowner got offered great money from an outfitter that is gonna run day hunts
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Old 11-23-2022, 01:45 PM   #14
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I think the Californiacation of the hill country is probably a fair guess also after reading the comments. What better way to force the masses into your tree hugger mentality than to buy up all the property you can and not allow hunting. The last lease we had was south in George west and we were on there for 8 years but the land poor comment was spot on as to why we are no longer there. LO had 3 properties all in the 300-500 acre range and he was into cattle and once he started to go broke the property we leased was his least beneficial for his cattle operation so it go put on the market and sold so I completely get that. And at the end of the day itís LOís property to do with it as he pleases just sucks when it works against you as the lessee.


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Old 11-23-2022, 01:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
Supply and demand is the east answer, especially in the hill country. Also Iíve heard of outfitters going to landowners and offering top $. Didnít believe it but itís happening to us and the main group has been on the lease 26 years. Landowner got offered great money from an outfitter that is gonna run day hunts

Yeah I hear of this happening a lot. Seems like no matter how much you are willing to pay there is always someone willing to pay more.


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Old 11-23-2022, 02:15 PM   #16
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Why its so hard to find a lease?
This is due to unrealistic expectations between either the prospective hunter, landowner, or both. It's not hard to find a lease, but it is hard to find a lease that will meet your expectations cost, distance, amenities, critter population ect.

Reasons why those expectations are off?
Everything listed by others, supply vs demand changing, networking necessity, land ownership changing, ect...
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Old 11-23-2022, 02:16 PM   #17
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Very simple - demand for hunting lease land outweighs supply.
Reasons - urban development and decline in large cattle ranches mainly.
Land is either being bought up by developers or purchased for personal recreation. Less used for strictly agricultural purposes where it makes sense to lease to hunters for a little extra income. Props to the landowners that can put up with lease hunters. I couldn’t do it.
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Old 11-23-2022, 02:59 PM   #18
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Liability
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Old 11-23-2022, 06:08 PM   #19
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I agree with the expectations of both parties has changed. Neither side knows how to make a deal mutually beneficial.

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Old 11-23-2022, 07:51 PM   #20
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Good deer leases don’t need to advertise. The one I’m on has had a waiting list to get on for years, just from word of mouth from current members.

If a lease with big deer has to post an ad to fill members it’s usually for a reason.
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Old 11-23-2022, 07:55 PM   #21
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Yep, basically it appears you have to know someone to find a lease when they have a spot open.

Or write letters, which is what I am doing. Luckily, I have some private family land to hunt and I am not afraid to hunt public as well to try and find a good buck. However, I am always looking for a good spot, whether it is in Texas or Kansas.
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Old 11-23-2022, 07:55 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bryan View Post
With the amount of people from California and New York moving to central Texas the available hunting properties are getting few and far between. Top that with windmill, solar and oil the land owners do not need hunters to pay the taxes any more.
YES And don't forget the Floridians!!!
They have bought up over 10,000 acres around us out here in Brady and are still buying.. They now own land on 2 sides of us and are working on a 3rd.. They bought several big chunks of the FORD also..
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Old 11-23-2022, 08:12 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M16 View Post
Lots of people have bought land to hunt for themselves and their families. Almost all of the people I have hunted with in the past own their ranches and donít lease anymore.
That is what I did, own 3 places, they are not real big but they all have very good hunting, I wanted my kids to always have a place to go.
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Old 11-23-2022, 08:21 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M16 View Post
Lots of people have bought land to hunt for themselves and their families. Almost all of the people I have hunted with in the past own their ranches and donít lease anymore.
The lease game drove me to purchase as well
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Old 11-23-2022, 08:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sika View Post
Very simple - demand for hunting lease land outweighs supply.
Reasons - urban development and decline in large cattle ranches mainly.
Land is either being bought up by developers or purchased for personal recreation. Less used for strictly agricultural purposes where it makes sense to lease to hunters for a little extra income. Props to the landowners that can put up with lease hunters. I couldnít do it.
This I agree with. If I owned several hundred acres, I don't think I could lease it out to strangers.
However, I've been on my lease 13 years and the owner trust us to treat the ranch as if it were our own. It's been a good arrangement.
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Old 11-23-2022, 08:58 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by ttaxidermy View Post
YES And don't forget the Floridians!!!
They have bought up over 10,000 acres around us out here in Brady and are still buying.. They now own land on 2 sides of us and are working on a 3rd.. They bought several big chunks of the FORD also..
I thought the City of San Angelo bought the Ford, for water.
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Old 11-23-2022, 08:59 PM   #27
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Here’s your answer
G R E E D!
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Old 11-23-2022, 09:13 PM   #28
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Quote:
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I thought the City of San Angelo bought the Ford, for water.
They did, they own the water rights and then sold the ranch.
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Old 11-23-2022, 09:49 PM   #29
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By some land in the Ozarks or Oklahoma. Sure you gotta drive but plan your trip where you can stay a while. We bought one of our tracts cash then put half down on a contiguous tract. If I hadn’t went and gotten old I would have purchased land in one of the two states mentioned.
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Old 11-23-2022, 10:50 PM   #30
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Steve Rinella and Joe Rogan have a heavy hand in the demise of average man hunting.
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Old 11-24-2022, 07:39 AM   #31
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Quote:
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Steve Rinella and Joe Rogan have a heavy hand in the demise of average man hunting.
What? Lol
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Old 11-24-2022, 07:53 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogmauler View Post
By some land in the Ozarks or Oklahoma. Sure you gotta drive but plan your trip where you can stay a while. We bought one of our tracts cash then put half down on a contiguous tract. If I hadn’t went and gotten old I would have purchased land in one of the two states mentioned.
Been looking at the for a couple of years, 160ac ( which isnt much in the scheme of things ) is $400k and up. Hard for the average person to justify that even if they can swing it

And its 8+hrs which rules out weekend hunting
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Old 11-24-2022, 08:26 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamerendino View Post
I think it's hard because it's an invite only party. All the good ones, cheap or expensive, close or far, have someone on the lease. That someone finds the next members. It's not hard to fill. It's a 10 walking into a bar at 2 a.m kinda thing.

Open your network or contacts and let your friends know your looking, then remind them until you find something. Customer service or sales friends are great to remind as they interact and talk to a lot of people.

You can also package hunt and let the landowner or outfitter know you're looking. Sometimes they say screw guiding and switch to a lease structure.

My .02. Hope it helps.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by James View Post
Good deer leases donít need to advertise. The one Iím on has had a waiting list to get on for years, just from word of mouth from current members.

If a lease with big deer has to post an ad to fill members itís usually for a reason.
These exactly. If you have to advertise for spots and can't fill them from current membership or a couple phone calls...

This may be the first season I haven't been asked to get on place in the last 5 or 6 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunteraudit View Post
Steve Rinella and Joe Rogan have a heavy hand in the demise of average man hunting.
Expand?

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Old 11-24-2022, 08:34 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Jamerendino View Post
I think it's hard because it's an invite only party. All the good ones, cheap or expensive, close or far, have someone on the lease. That someone finds the next members. It's not hard to fill.
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Lots of truth to this. A group is less likely to bring in ďoutsidersĒ they donít know.
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Old 11-24-2022, 08:39 AM   #35
rut-ro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darton View Post
The lease game drove me to purchase as well
Got any good deals on land coming up?
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Old 11-24-2022, 08:43 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James View Post
Good deer leases donít need to advertise. The one Iím on has had a waiting list to get on for years, just from word of mouth from current members.

If a lease with big deer has to post an ad to fill members itís usually for a reason.
This right here is one of the best answers. There is a reason there is also an "interview" process before being selected to join a leas now as well.
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Old 11-24-2022, 09:02 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunteraudit View Post
Steve Rinella and Joe Rogan have a heavy hand in the demise of average man hunting.

Please explain as I believe there are many factors in play and itís not these 2! HaÖ

There have been some very valid points in this thread regarding the reason good leases are hard to find. We hav been on the same one for 30+ years and have a very good relationship with the LO. We take care of the property and help when needed. Weíve seen members on other leases trash a place and the land owners have many friends that own large ranches and hear horror stories of how crappy some hunters are.
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Old 11-24-2022, 09:32 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogmauler View Post
By some land in the Ozarks or Oklahoma. Sure you gotta drive but plan your trip where you can stay a while. We bought one of our tracts cash then put half down on a contiguous tract. If I hadnít went and gotten old I would have purchased land in one of the two states mentioned.
Noooooo. Donít do to us what youíve done to yourselves
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Old 11-24-2022, 09:39 AM   #39
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Landowners getting tired of dealing with hunters and the issues they bring.
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Old 11-24-2022, 10:21 AM   #40
M16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sika View Post
Very simple - demand for hunting lease land outweighs supply.
This is the answer. And here's why I think the supply has dwindled.

Years ago there was still a good amount of ranchers who needed the income from hunting so they could afford to keep ranching. Ranching alone is not a very profitable business. Not like it was in the days of old. Now you need a good income to support a ranching habit.

Some very large ranches that were previously leased for hunting have been purchased by individuals that obviously don't need the money, headaches, or liability from leasing hunting rights. One example is a ranch that I know that was 100,000+ acres bought by an individual. It is hunted by family and friends. At one hunter per 500 acres that is 200 hunters that got thrown into the looking for a lease crowd. How many other ranches on a much smaller basis have had the same thing happen.

Recreational ranching is at a high point. People who can afford to buy property are doing so. Nothing like having your own place and not having to deal with hunting lease drama. People who can afford it buy more than they need for themselves. Thus displacing more hunters and adding them to the looking for a lease pool. If they do sell hunts its package hunts. With package hunts there are a set number of days dealing with "outside" hunters. Who wants to deal with lease hunters every time you go to your ranch for some peace and solitude? Not me.
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Old 11-24-2022, 10:28 AM   #41
Sika
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M16 View Post
This is the answer. And here's why I think the supply has dwindled.

Years ago there was still a good amount of ranchers who needed the income from hunting so they could afford to keep ranching. Ranching alone is not a very profitable business. Not like it was in the days of old. Now you need a good income to support a ranching habit.

Some very large ranches that were previously leased for hunting have been purchased by individuals that obviously don't need the money, headaches, or liability from leasing hunting rights. One example is a ranch that I know that was 100,000+ acres bought by an individual. It is hunted by family and friends. At one hunter per 500 acres that is 200 hunters that got thrown into the looking for a lease crowd. How many other ranches on a much smaller basis have had the same thing happen.

Recreational ranching is at a high point. People who can afford to buy property are doing so. Nothing like having your own place and not having to deal with hunting lease drama. People who can afford it buy more than they need for themselves. Thus displacing more hunters and adding them to the looking for a lease pool. If they do sell hunts its package hunts. With package hunts there are a set number of days dealing with "outside" hunters. Who wants to deal with lease hunters every time you go to your ranch for some peace and solitude? Not me.
Explained it better than I could - thanks
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Old 11-24-2022, 11:00 AM   #42
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As said, a lot of the better places get filled up for within. On our place most members have 2 to 3 spots and are absorbed. We went from 30 spots to 15 and everyone has 2 spots.

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Old 11-24-2022, 11:07 AM   #43
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For starters it is way easier to find a spot for one than it is 3. I would look for yourself a spot and then If they have more openings worry about your friends
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Old 11-24-2022, 11:47 AM   #44
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There are also a lot of land owners who have moved into the breeding game & selling of individual hunts vs year round...same folks who don't need the $$$$ but like the $$$$.
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Old 11-24-2022, 04:39 PM   #45
TeamAmerica
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Population growth plus a heavy supply of cheap money/debt.

Hope you find what you are looking for. Best plan is to find a place for yourself and then maybe have a guest option to bring your buddy occasionally.

You may get on the tax website and start writing letters (handwritten only) to landowners. Include all your personal details and see if you get a bite.
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Old 11-24-2022, 04:52 PM   #46
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Location: Golden Triangle
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It’s been mentioned already but explanations aren’t required other than supply and demand.
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Old 11-24-2022, 06:21 PM   #47
Darton
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lake Eufaula, OK
Hunt In: Oklahoma
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Originally Posted by rut-ro View Post
Got any good deals on land coming up?
Give me a call if you are on the hunt! Got several TBHers in the chute now and 90% of what I am moving is not on the open market
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Old 11-24-2022, 06:42 PM   #48
Big pig
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Blanket, TX
Hunt In: Brown Co.
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Originally Posted by miket View Post
Too many people and too few available properties. Population is growing and acreage available for hunting is dwindling quickly. Plain and simple. When supply is low and demand is high the select few get to partake. That means more money, and good references. Most of the good properties have people waiting to get on, and they are all people a lease member knows or is related to.
Iíll agree with this.

Also, I think lots of south texas was affected by oil and gas production which made leasing unnecessary for some landowners. Solar and wind are not going help the supply of leasable land. I see lots of outfitters on the outdoor channels who have land/hunting rights leases also.

In addition, people moving to the country (like me) and buying land with no intention of leasing. As a matter of fact, the poor souls who had leased my new property had been there 17 yrs.

Keep positive and in touch with all your hunting friends with leases.



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Old 11-24-2022, 07:28 PM   #49
Jtrage
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Mckinney
Hunt In: Cherokee County
Default Opinions on why its so hard to find leases

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Last edited by Jtrage; 11-24-2022 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 11-24-2022, 10:14 PM   #50
miket
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Plantersville
Hunt In: Grimes County, Victoria
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Give me a call if you are on the hunt! Got several TBHers in the chute now and 90% of what I am moving is not on the open market
If you start dealing in NE OK into NW Arkansas let me know. Like Sequoyah County, OK to Madison County, AR or thereabouts.

I like the hills......
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