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Old 01-21-2022, 07:03 AM   #1
JFFB
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Angry Entergy Transfer Wants to Cut Power Off in Texas

https://news.yahoo.com/pipeline-comp...ycsrp_catchall
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Old 01-21-2022, 07:18 AM   #2
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While I don't think they should cut the gas off right now I also think the other company needs to pay their bills in a timely manner. Why should the gas provider have to float them? Did they take them to raise?

-john
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Old 01-21-2022, 07:19 AM   #3
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All talk IMO, they’re trying to collect a debt with the only collateral they have, their gas.I believe that’s all it is, a threat to collect on a debt. We threaten to suspend services all the time for non payment.

They just want to be payed what they’re owed. Thread title is misleading as cnn

Last edited by TheHammer; 01-21-2022 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 01-21-2022, 07:26 AM   #4
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They provided a product and haven’t gotten paid for that product. If we don’t pay our light bill the power company wont hesitate about turning our power off…..not supposed to happen until the 24th after this cold front. I work for Energy Transfer and if I am on the grid that happened to lose power if gas is shut off then so be it. Pay your bill……
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Old 01-21-2022, 07:29 AM   #5
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They provided a product and havenít gotten paid for that product. If we donít pay our light bill the power company wont hesitate about turning our power offÖ..not supposed to happen until the 24th after this cold front. I work for Energy Transfer and if I am on the grid that happened to lose power if gas is shut off then so be it. Pay your billÖÖ
Exactly. Pay your bill and quit being a crybaby trying to put the blame on someone else.
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Old 01-21-2022, 07:44 AM   #6
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Energy* Transfer. What do you think should happen when you get 21 million dollars behind on your bill?
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Old 01-21-2022, 07:45 AM   #7
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Posturing.
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Old 01-21-2022, 07:47 AM   #8
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Sounds to me that Vistra needs to pay their bill.
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Old 01-21-2022, 07:48 AM   #9
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What about the price gouging during the big freeze. Energy transfer should be shut down at the state line.
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Old 01-21-2022, 07:50 AM   #10
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What about the price gouging during the big freeze. Energy transfer should be shut down at the state line.
That started at the producers level not the midstream. They were buying it higher per mcf, which translated down the line.
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Old 01-21-2022, 07:50 AM   #11
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Pay up Vista
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Old 01-21-2022, 07:51 AM   #12
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It's illegal to cut off gas and other essential utilities in winter-time... I lived in Wisconsin working for a power provider, and we were not allowed to cut off gas and electricity until I think May 1. It was amazing how many people didn't pay utilities starting in November until May 2.
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Old 01-21-2022, 07:55 AM   #13
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What about the price gouging during the big freeze. Energy transfer should be shut down at the state line.
Prices are agreed upon at least a year if not several years in advance. Prices donít increase because a freeze is coming or a storm is in the gulf. BTW Energy Transfer is based in Dallas and supports thousands of Texas families.
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Old 01-21-2022, 07:59 AM   #14
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That's funny because Energy Transfer doesn't pay their bills for sh*t.
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Old 01-21-2022, 08:04 AM   #15
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BTW Energy Transfer is based in Dallas and supports thousands of Texas families.
Yep, they bought Sunoco and several other Texas companies. They employ a lot of Texas folks.
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Old 01-21-2022, 08:09 AM   #16
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Yep. Energy transfer made 2.6 billion off us Texans during last years event.
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Old 01-21-2022, 08:11 AM   #17
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That's funny because Energy Transfer doesn't pay their bills for sh*t.
On a corporate or district level? Iíve never had anyone calling me about non-payment on goods or services. Not saying things donít slip through since so many hands are involved but itís rare in the district I work in. If itís on a corporate level then I have no idea. As far as Iím concerned if one company is providing a goods or service to another company and not getting paid then the company not paying should be cut off or put on hold until payment is received.
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Old 01-21-2022, 08:18 AM   #18
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Our local news report said that Vistra didn't use all that they had ordered and consequently didn't pay for what they didn't get. Glad I'm not in the business anymore, but there's probably a lot more to it than what we will hear on the news.
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Old 01-21-2022, 08:19 AM   #19
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Yep. Energy transfer made 2.6 billion off us Texans during last years event.
Itís supply and demand from a user aspect. If the demand is higher then the supply increases. They made money because they were able to keep running. They were able to keep running because employees were out in the freezing conditions dragging generators around powering stations. They didnít make this money because of price increases.
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Old 01-21-2022, 08:23 AM   #20
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Itís supply and demand from a user aspect. If the demand is higher then the supply increases. They made money because they were able to keep running. They were able to keep running because employees were out in the freezing conditions dragging generators around powering stations. They didnít make this money because of price increases.
Yes they did. The natural gas market has been crooked in texas since Oscar Wyatt back in the 70's
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Old 01-21-2022, 08:40 AM   #21
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Daaaaang that's a CNN level clickbait title if I ever saw one...
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Old 01-21-2022, 08:45 AM   #22
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Basic economics…… commodity markets and supply/demand…….

Guessing some people slept thru the class when it was taught.

Pay the bill.
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Old 01-21-2022, 08:54 AM   #23
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Itís supply and demand from a user aspect. If the demand is higher then the supply increases. They made money because they were able to keep running. They were able to keep running because employees were out in the freezing conditions dragging generators around powering stations. They didnít make this money because of price increases.
Yep. I spent 13 days out in that keeping a plant online. Many many plants went down. We made it nearly through the whole deal but our producers froze up and we didnít have the volume to stay online the entire time. Luckily we had the forethought to pack our residue like hard and keep flowing going till we came back up. That was a rough couple of weeks.
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Old 01-21-2022, 08:55 AM   #24
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Yes they did. The natural gas market has been crooked in texas since Oscar Wyatt back in the 70's
LolÖ.Ok. Next in line for the handout.
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Old 01-21-2022, 08:55 AM   #25
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Basic economicsÖÖ commodity markets and supply/demandÖÖ.

Guessing some people slept thru the class when it was taught.

Pay the bill.
Funny, its OK to sell a house right now for 140k thats only worth 100k. Cant do the same with a commodity..........
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Old 01-21-2022, 09:03 AM   #26
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They provided a product and haven’t gotten paid for that product. If we don’t pay our light bill the power company wont hesitate about turning our power off…..not supposed to happen until the 24th after this cold front. I work for Energy Transfer and if I am on the grid that happened to lose power if gas is shut off then so be it. Pay your bill……
I also work for Energy Transfer and agree 100%

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What about the price gouging during the big freeze. Energy transfer should be shut down at the state line.
There was no price gouging. Vistra signed a contract and agreed to everything in it and knew what they signed up for. It was basically like an adjustable rate mortgage. Cost is low for low volume, then as the volume goes up the price per volume goes up. They used more natural gas during those few days than ever before. Vistra took a risk just like anyone who signs up for a ARM and it bit them in the butt. Now they don't want to pay. It cost us a ton of money to keep our plants and pipeline up and running and our operations guys worked there tails off and did an amazing job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlptexashunter View Post
That's funny because Energy Transfer doesn't pay their bills for sh*t.
I assume your a contractor who did work for us and didn't get paid? That sounds like either more to the story or an issue you need to take up with the PM you did work for. Feel free to shoot me a PM with more details if you wish.

Last edited by ColinR; 01-21-2022 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 01-21-2022, 09:17 AM   #27
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Prices are agreed upon at least a year if not several years in advance. Prices donít increase because a freeze is coming or a storm is in the gulf. BTW Energy Transfer is based in Dallas and supports thousands of Texas families.
Not true, a lot of energy and natural gas is bought on real time markets and prices fluctuate dramatically. prices increased like 9,000 above average during the freeze if I remember correctly. Their are a lot of ongoing law suits regarding that right now.
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Old 01-21-2022, 09:27 AM   #28
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Not true, a lot of energy and natural gas is bought on real time markets and prices fluctuate dramatically. prices increased like 9,000 above average during the freeze if I remember correctly. Their are a lot of ongoing law suits regarding that right now.
Maybe I misspoke on the gas side how itís done. Iím in the liquids side and know that a lot of it is done on a contractural basis. ColinR did a good job of explaining the gas side of things a couple posts above this.
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Old 01-21-2022, 09:33 AM   #29
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Yep. No price gouging. https://newsroom.cpsenergy.com/cps-e...bitant-prices/
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Old 01-21-2022, 09:41 AM   #30
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Yep. Article is straight from and written by an electric company.

CPS Energy is among the top public power wind energy buyers in the nation and number one in Texas for solar generation.

...no hidden agenda there
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Old 01-21-2022, 09:46 AM   #31
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That's funny because Energy Transfer doesn't pay their bills for sh*t.
If a customer was $21mil in debt to me I'd probably have a hard time paying my bills too

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Old 01-21-2022, 09:48 AM   #32
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Yep. Article is straight from and written by an electric company.

CPS Energy is among the top public power wind energy buyers in the nation and number one in Texas for solar generation.

...no hidden agenda there
Nice deflection.
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Old 01-21-2022, 09:53 AM   #33
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Maybe I misspoke on the gas side how itís done. Iím in the liquids side and know that a lot of it is done on a contractural basis. ColinR did a good job of explaining the gas side of things a couple posts above this.
No problem. I am not an expert in the area but I am somewhat familiar with the markets from being in the industry. There are contracts on the gas side as well, but it is not all done through contracts. A lot of real time purchases and sales based on demand and production going on all the time. Whether you call it price gouging or just market forces, the fluctuations can be unbelievable.
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Old 01-21-2022, 09:56 AM   #34
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Yep. Article is straight from and written by an electric company.

CPS Energy is among the top public power wind energy buyers in the nation and number one in Texas for solar generation.

...no hidden agenda there
An electric company that floats and writes off millions of dollars of customers delinquent bills as well.


Would you want your electric provider just to pay whatever a supplier wants to charge them and pass the savings, err I mean dramatically inflated prices, on to you? Or, not try to provide electricity when you are freezing?
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Old 01-21-2022, 10:00 AM   #35
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On a corporate or district level? Iíve never had anyone calling me about non-payment on goods or services. Not saying things donít slip through since so many hands are involved but itís rare in the district I work in. If itís on a corporate level then I have no idea. As far as Iím concerned if one company is providing a goods or service to another company and not getting paid then the company not paying should be cut off or put on hold until payment is received.
Corporate
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Old 01-21-2022, 10:00 AM   #36
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They had a chance to get cheaper prices, they got greedy and it cost them in the end...
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Old 01-21-2022, 10:04 AM   #37
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What about the price gouging during the big freeze. Energy transfer should be shut down at the state line.
I donít understand what you are referring to here about shutting them down at the state line? Please explain.
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Old 01-21-2022, 10:06 AM   #38
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They had a chance to get cheaper prices, they got greedy and it cost them in the end...
You explain that to me! Big freeze and power units in texas were shutting down and people were without power and gas supplier inflated prices like 9000%. And remember CPS is part of the texas grid and helped keep the whole state watm.
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Old 01-21-2022, 10:07 AM   #39
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They had a chance to get cheaper prices, they got greedy and it cost them in the end...
Decisions have consequences, don’t they.

Society today has a hard time when those decisions have negative consequences, like they are now victims.

I blame is on th bailouts from the later 2000’s
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Old 01-21-2022, 10:08 AM   #40
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Yep. Article is straight from and written by an electric company.

CPS Energy is among the top public power wind energy buyers in the nation and number one in Texas for solar generation.

...no hidden agenda there
CPS is a really well run utility they also have a great team that monitors commodity markets and since most of the generation is nat gas they know what is up on the intraday trading of gas. You on the other hand don't have a clue what you are talking about. Educate yourself
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Old 01-21-2022, 10:19 AM   #41
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CPS is a really well run utility they also have a great team that monitors commodity markets and since most of the generation is nat gas they know what is up on the intraday trading of gas. You on the other hand don't have a clue what you are talking about. Educate yourself
You're right, I know nothing about CPS other than what I read in the article. What I do know is that the natural gas midstream companies are not the reason that power went out last February. I am not in gas marketing but if negotiations are made upfront and a contract is in place, each party should hold to their end of the bargain when the dust clears.
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Old 01-21-2022, 10:41 AM   #42
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You're right, I know nothing about CPS other than what I read in the article. What I do know is that the natural gas midstream companies are not the reason that power went out last February. I am not in gas marketing but if negotiations are made upfront and a contract is in place, each party should hold to their end of the bargain when the dust clears.
Yep, and that is why Vistra needs to pay up. There was a contract in place that they agreed to.
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Old 01-21-2022, 10:49 AM   #43
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If a customer was $21mil in debt to me I'd probably have a hard time paying my bills too

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You ain't lying. I'd be packing a sandwich for lunch that week
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Old 01-21-2022, 11:04 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walker View Post
What about the price gouging during the big freeze. Energy transfer should be shut down at the state line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnadell View Post
I donít understand what you are referring to here about shutting them down at the state line? Please explain.


The question is still on the table. I donít get your state line comment.
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Old 01-21-2022, 11:10 AM   #45
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Bernadette, I'm pretty sure the rr commission could shut them down if they wanted to.
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Old 01-21-2022, 11:19 AM   #46
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Bernadette, I'm pretty sure the rr commission could shut them down if they wanted to.
1. Why would the RR Commission want to shut down a vital infrastructure suppler of needed oil/gas supplies? Why SHOULD they be shut down?

2. My question was about shutting them down at the state line. I’m sorry. I just don’t get you reasoning or rationale.
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Old 01-21-2022, 11:22 AM   #47
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Well, if they were price gouging they could be punished by denying them the texas market. I'm sure there are other suppliers who would be willing to step up. When we have hurricane and gas station and other stores inlets their prices the government slaps them.
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Old 01-21-2022, 11:35 AM   #48
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Okay.
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Old 01-21-2022, 11:36 AM   #49
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I donít understand what you are referring to here about shutting them down at the state line? Please explain.
Energy transfer made a huge profit when the deregulated market went parabolic during the storm. $2.4 Billion and many of these power producers never even took delivery of the gas bought on a market that was being heavily manipulated. I am old enough to remember Enron traders turning off power production in CA so they could"stick it to grandma." All these people saying "just pay your bills" obviously have never seen commodities being traded intraday, during a black swan event. Let me give you a clue, traders are laughing at you all the way to the bank.
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Old 01-21-2022, 12:38 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Walker View Post
Well, if they were price gouging they could be punished by denying them the texas market. I'm sure there are other suppliers who would be willing to step up. When we have hurricane and gas station and other stores inlets their prices the government slaps them.
Tell me you donít know how pipeline infrastructure works without telling meÖ.
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