2021 Formula 1 Season!!!

[Landrover]

Lap 1 is buckwild!!! Max pushed Ham off the track and I agree with the stewards......the lunge was late at best. Ham had to leave the track. Redbull is crying at this point.

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[Charrison]

Red Bull is in trouble. Soft tires going away and Lewis laying down really fast laps on the mediums.

[Charrison]

Nice job by Perez to hold Lewis up but not sure it's going to matter. The Merc has the pace today.

[Charrison]

WOW. Speechless.

[bossbowman]

[bossbowman]

Glad Max won, that who I wanted but F1 just went NASCAR there... its all about the show mentality. That's your new owners with Liberty media, but they know its going to grow the popularity of the sport.

[Goldeneagle]

That was messed up!

[Charrison]

Agree. Seems like the FIA was making decisions the past 2 races on the fly with no consistency and no real adherence to the rule book. It did make for an exciting last lap tho. Max needs to send Latifi a very nice gift basket for Christmas for that last safety car.

[Wall_Hanger]

Originally Posted by Landrover

Lap 1 is buckwild!!! Max pushed Ham off the track and I agree with the stewards......the lunge was late at best. Ham had to leave the track. Redbull is crying at this point.

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That was a BS lasting advantage and everyone knows. Lewis and Max should have been neck and neck coming out of that turn after if the advantage was given back….absolutely no one is arguing that. Don’t get me started in the whining, Lewis crying about “dangerous driving” on Perez when Lewis shoved Perez onto the pit lane what three races ago…this race was great until the last lap. I’m not sure how this will play out but the battles coming up the the last last were epic. Even the mid pack cars were getting after it. Alpine and alpha were fun to watch the whole time. I do agree though the stewards have been very inconsistent recently making the Race Director become a de facto steward and that’s got to be sorted before next year.

[Wall_Hanger]

Originally Posted by bossbowman

Glad Max won, that who I wanted but F1 just went NASCAR there... its all about the show mentality. That's your new owners with Liberty media, but they know its going to grow the popularity of the sport.

My thoughts exactly

[bossbowman]

Originally Posted by Wall_Hanger

I do agree though the stewards have been very inconsistent recently making the Race Director become a de facto steward and that’s got to be sorted before next year.

Look up Brian Barnhart if you don't know who he is, guy was a total baffoon, Masi is starting to make some decisions that remind me of him. The race should be about the drivers and teams and not the race director, the director and stewards names should not even come up or be getting mentioned on the telecast, that should be behind the scenes stuff.

[texashunter]

Man! That was crazy.

[Wall_Hanger]

Both Mercedes protest have been dismissed. For better or for worse, verstappen is the 2021 champion. Next year should be interesting, maybe HAAS will be the next dominant team?

[DaveC]

I’ve got to give Lewis credit, he showed class in the post race interview.

Max 2021 season -most laps led, most wins = Champion- that smells about right to me.

Mercedes looked to have the better Machine for this and last few races
(Lewis’s anyways).

Congrats to Max, looking forward to 2022 and them big wheel cars .


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[SC-001]

Watching the nazi squirm that last lap was satisfying

[Landrover]

So Michael Masi:
1. takes away Hamilton's 11.4 second lead.
2. removes all the obstacles, the other competitors. that Hamilton already negotiated to get his lead.
3. force Hamilton to 1 lap, where he can't use his DRS on old tires.
4. Allow Max free tire change, without time loss during safety flag. If you're just gonna arbitrarily decide.... one decision after another.... you could have given Hamilton a tire change....lol.....ijs. If you're just gonna keep shooting from the hip with your decisions he could have added laps......gee-zus!
5. Ham is a class act as he congratulated Max and did not storm off the podium during the ceremony
6. An asterisk will be part of his championship and he knows it. Next season he MUST repeat to have any credibility.
7. Yes, max needs to buy a ton of Christmas presents as he got a "miracle" .......which was his only hope!

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[texashunter]

Originally Posted by Landrover

So Michael Masi:
1. takes away Hamilton's 11.4 second lead.
2. removes all the obstacles, the other competitors. that Hamilton already negotiated to get his lead.
3. force Hamilton to 1 lap, where he can't use his DRS on old tires.
4. Allow Max free tire change, without time loss during safety flag. If you're just gonna arbitrarily decide.... one decision after another.... you could have given Hamilton a tire change....lol.....ijs. If you're just gonna keep shooting from the hip with your decisions he could have added laps......gee-zus!
5. Ham is a class act as he congratulated Max and did not storm off the podium during the ceremony
6. An asterisk will be part of his championship and he knows it. Next season he MUST repeat to have any credibility.
7. Yes, max needs to buy a ton of Christmas presents as he got a "miracle" .......which was his only hope!

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[Wall_Hanger]

Originally Posted by Landrover

So Michael Masi:
1. takes away Hamilton's 11.4 second lead.
2. removes all the obstacles, the other competitors. that Hamilton already negotiated to get his lead.
3. force Hamilton to 1 lap, where he can't use his DRS on old tires.
4. Allow Max free tire change, without time loss during safety flag. If you're just gonna arbitrarily decide.... one decision after another.... you could have given Hamilton a tire change....lol.....ijs. If you're just gonna keep shooting from the hip with your decisions he could have added laps......gee-zus!
5. Ham is a class act as he congratulated Max and did not storm off the podium during the ceremony
6. An asterisk will be part of his championship and he knows it. Next season he MUST repeat to have any credibility.
7. Yes, max needs to buy a ton of Christmas presents as he got a "miracle" .......which was his only hope!

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All those events happened, but ijs….Mercedes strategy has been crap all season when the race deviates from their initial read. They are very prone to make the standard down the fairway strategy moves and it bites them frequently when teams like RB and McLaren are more willing to make big changes. A recent example Saudi where Schumacher nails the barrier and it has to be repaired….RB took the gamble there would be a red flag and it worked. Also, Mercedes bends the rules every chance they can get ie Bottas running way slow to allow a double stop under the safety car before the red flag. It’s all racing. If Lewis wasn’t behind on points I think he’d have been much more aggressive these last few races but he couldn’t afford that DNF risk. I would have loved to watch it though! My boy Gasly still doing solid.

I’m a little fuzzy on the rules for a safety car restart with lapped traffic in the way but my understanding is that they only have to allow the traffic that is inhibiting the “race” to pass. It’s a little above my pay grade. I agree though the stewards are massively inconsistent and Masi making too many calls. Oh and Lewis whines for the the rest of the grid combined

[Wall_Hanger]

Originally Posted by Wall_Hanger

All those events happened, but ijs….Mercedes strategy has been crap all season when the race deviates from their initial read. They are very prone to make the standard down the fairway strategy moves and it bites them frequently when teams like RB and McLaren are more willing to make big changes. A recent example Saudi where Schumacher nails the barrier and it has to be repaired….RB took the gamble there would be a red flag and it worked. Also, Mercedes bends the rules every chance they can get ie Bottas running way slow to allow a double stop under the safety car before the red flag. It’s all racing. If Lewis wasn’t behind on points I think he’d have been much more aggressive these last few races but he couldn’t afford that DNF risk. I would have loved to watch it though! My boy Gasly still doing solid.

I’m a little fuzzy on the rules for a safety car restart with lapped traffic in the way but my understanding is that they only have to allow the traffic that is inhibiting the “race” to pass. It’s a little above my pay grade. I agree though the stewards are massively inconsistent and Masi making too many calls. Oh and Lewis whines for the the rest of the grid combined

Just quick thought Max storming off…I hated to see that but I also wasn’t surprised. I’m not sure if you have much experience with the Dutch but they are extremely direct people (even more so than my German clan) and I wasn’t supposed at all by it. He needs to learn to manage it for PR but he is 100% himself all the time….Nothing produced about him and oh does Lewis hate him….and it makes for a fun race between those two! Hahaha.

[Wall_Hanger]

Wow, just wow.

[Landrover]

Originally Posted by Wall_Hanger

Wow, just wow.

Yep, not even close thus his ability to rise above alot of this.
It was cool to see him being "knighted" yesterday in the Queens palace.

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[bossbowman]

Originally Posted by Wall_Hanger

I'd like to see what Hamiliton could do in a backmarker car for one season, could he finish 2nd in the rain at Monaco in a crap Toleman, I have my doubts. This last race may be the most adversity he has had to face since reaching F1.

[100%TtId]

Originally Posted by bossbowman

I'd like to see what Hamiliton could do in a backmarker car for one season, could he finish 2nd in the rain at Monaco in a crap Toleman, I have my doubts. This last race may be the most adversity he has had to face since reaching F1.

Nope

[Landrover]

What?.......you guys obviously don't know he came from nothing. Also nothing carts as a kid. Also nothing cars as a teenager. Also Mercedes was far from dominant when he parted with McClaren. Oddly the pundits say exactly what yall said......but he crushed all of them. 2022 will be a new car for all F1 drivers. Just another chance for the to shut down the pundits. The statistics speak for themselves but I guess Tom Brady is only the goat because of the Brady rule.

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[100%TtId]

Ham is good but he's no Senna. Even he admits as much.

F1 Top Gear Lewis Hamilton Drives Ayrton Senna's MP4/4 F1 Car - YouTube

[Wall_Hanger]

Originally Posted by Landrover

What?.......you guys obviously don't know he came from nothing. Also nothing carts as a kid. Also nothing cars as a teenager. Also Mercedes was far from dominant when he parted with McClaren. Oddly the pundits say exactly what yall said......but he crushed all of them. 2022 will be a new car for all F1 drivers. Just another chance for the to shut down the pundits. The statistics speak for themselves but I guess Tom Brady is only the goat because of the Brady rule.

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He came from nothing but that doesn’t make him the best today. Russel came from humble beginnings too and I hope to see him do well at Merc next year too.

Not quite true on pure GOAT status, he won with McLaren in ‘08 and then not again until the turbo hybrid era in ‘14. Button won in ‘09. At that point in ‘14, Mercedes was absolutely the most dominant power unit in the field out of the gate and maintained that until this year where they still had edge just not to the degree they had before. In ‘16 Rosberg won as his driving partner at Merc and it was neck and neck the whole year, much like this year with Red Bull. He has also for 5 years had as he described in a bit of a press blunder “the best #2 driver on the grid” in Bottas who is a steady points machine, quali partner and has played great defense when needed. All of that combined has led to outstanding results and great fortune. Had he been driving for Red Bull or mid field team with a lesser performing power unit, was less well capitalized and not led by someone the likes of Toto (he’s a machine) he would not have the legacy he has today.

The beyond the grid podcast actually interviewed the Brackley Bunch technical manager (original Merc team owners) and he went in to great detail about just how devastatingly dominant their car was relative to the pack when F1 shifted to the turbo hybrid.

So the truth as I see it, Lewis is a great driver that had the eye and the good fortune to be in the right seat in ‘14 and then HE capitalized on that opportunity to become a legend in the sport. He also is very aware of his public image and curates that (even during races) to his benefit. He’s had some great coaching. I’ll paraphrase a statement about Lewis which was something along the line of “..he always leaves enough doubt in his racing to appear to never intentionally cross the line but he did in fact cross in intentionally all the time, he just knows to not get caught like Rosberg”.

[LlanoHunter10]

The best of the rest!!!

[Landrover]

Originally Posted by Wall_Hanger

He came from nothing but that doesn’t make him the best today. Russel came from humble beginnings too and I hope to see him do well at Merc next year too.

Not quite true on pure GOAT status, he won with McLaren in ‘08 and then not again until the turbo hybrid era in ‘14. Button won in ‘09. At that point in ‘14, Mercedes was absolutely the most dominant power unit in the field out of the gate and maintained that until this year where they still had edge just not to the degree they had before. In ‘16 Rosberg won as his driving partner at Merc and it was neck and neck the whole year, much like this year with Red Bull. He has also for 5 years had as he described in a bit of a press blunder “the best #2 driver on the grid” in Bottas who is a steady points machine, quali partner and has played great defense when needed. All of that combined has led to outstanding results and great fortune. Had he been driving for Red Bull or mid field team with a lesser performing power unit, was less well capitalized and not led by someone the likes of Toto (he’s a machine) he would not have the legacy he has today.

The beyond the grid podcast actually interviewed the Brackley Bunch technical manager (original Merc team owners) and he went in to great detail about just how devastatingly dominant their car was relative to the pack when F1 shifted to the turbo hybrid.

So the truth as I see it, Lewis is a great driver that had the eye and the good fortune to be in the right seat in ‘14 and then HE capitalized on that opportunity to become a legend in the sport. He also is very aware of his public image and curates that (even during races) to his benefit. He’s had some great coaching. I’ll paraphrase a statement about Lewis which was something along the line of “..he always leaves enough doubt in his racing to appear to never intentionally cross the line but he did in fact cross in intentionally all the time, he just knows to not get caught like Rosberg”.

So, being well trained/coached since carts is his fault? Thx God he was as they had zero help. Since his rise and dominance has been treated like a business it is his fault? Pretty dang smart on his dad's and sponsors part! Taking advantage of the technology is a negative? Never....the sport is about tech. Having a teamate of value is part of the sport, not his decision. Business people make tweaks EVERYDAY to stay relevant as technology and KEY partnerships matter.
Heck, u or I can drive the car if it's that simple. We can "what if" and "how about" on everyone......but they are not even close wins, poles, DNF's, fastest laps, even starts. The same exact criticisms were applied to Tiger Woods.....even "Tiger proofed" golf courses to help lessor players.....he still won. That's what winners do, exceed expectations no matter what,..... Ham will do the same. FIA blew the race and made rules along the way. Masi has proven he is not in the correct role and I suspect changes are coming. 2022 can't get here fast enough. We will be in Miami for the inaugural race in May and expect it to be . The debate won't stop about 2021 for decades, but I absolutely know how that last lap materialized was pure horse crap.

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[Wall_Hanger]

Well, Albon to Williams just got a little more interesting.

[Wall_Hanger]

Originally Posted by Landrover

So, being well trained/coached since carts is his fault? Thx God he was as they had zero help. Since his rise and dominance has been treated like a business it is his fault? Pretty dang smart on his dad's and sponsors part! Taking advantage of the technology is a negative? Never....the sport is about tech. Having a teamate of value is part of the sport, not his decision. Business people make tweaks EVERYDAY to stay relevant as technology and KEY partnerships matter.
Heck, u or I can drive the car if it's that simple. We can "what if" and "how about" on everyone......but they are not even close wins, poles, DNF's, fastest laps, even starts. The same exact criticisms were applied to Tiger Woods.....even "Tiger proofed" golf courses to help lessor players.....he still won. That's what winners do, exceed expectations no matter what,..... Ham will do the same. FIA blew the race and made rules along the way. Masi has proven he is not in the correct role and I suspect changes are coming. 2022 can't get here fast enough. We will be in Miami for the inaugural race in May and expect it to be . The debate won't stop about 2021 for decades, but I absolutely know how that last lap materialized was pure horse crap.

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You misread, or I didn’t explain very well, my point. That or your Hamilton fanboy butt hurt got in the way (kidding). I didn’t say anything about him being well coached in karts as a pejorative or for that matter his upbringing period.

Lewis won in ‘08 and then struggled the following seasons finishing 4 or 5 up through ‘12 when he joined Mercedes and left McLaren. From ‘07 - ‘12 Lewis had all kinds of on track issues and run-ins with the stewards over his driving and at one point I think got called in 5 races in a row (2009 I think) for infractions. He was not near the polished driver he is now. That’s a fact.

Merc at that point in 13’ had a completely different team and offering than it did in ‘08. Toto had joined and quickly convinced corporate to reinvest hundreds of millions into the team and Niki Lauda had joined as team coach. The investment Toto negotiated was chiefly to create the new v6 turbo hybrid power unit. When Lewis interviewed with Mercedes these were all things that would have gone into his calculus to improve his lot on the grid ie what seat gives me the best edge. This isn’t “what about”….it’s fact. To their credit, Mercedes saw in him what he could eventually be which was an F1 legend and not for what he was, a one time champion with a little baggage. Toto seems to have a knack for picking winners whether it is on the track on in the market.

When Mercedes debuted their new power unit in prerace testing they were leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. I’ve read and listened to Paddy Lowe and others describe how far ahead they were but here’s a taste, they freaking ran the motors tuned down for all of ‘14 in qualifying so no one knew how good they were because they feared FIA would regulate them. Copied a link below to a racefans article describing this. The point is that Lewis was a good driver that was fortunate to get into the right seat where he was able to become that dominating force. He wasn’t that force ‘09-‘12. Mercedes was dominant enough that they went for 8 constructors cups…that’s insane and a testimony to the package they have and good drivers they attract and develop. But a good driver in a crap car still won’t have the race pace to compete for a championship. Look at Alonso this year or Schumacher when he went to Ferrari in his first and second years there. The best car makes a good driver with great instincts into the best driver they can be.

Tiger analogy doesn’t fit. There is no engineering in golf. F1 at its core is an engineering contest. Everyone has access to the exact same clubs….golf comes down to abilities and training and perhaps you can argue there is some nuance in training that builds edge but that’s marginal. Tiger is a golf anomaly. But it’s nothing like F1. Put Nikita Mazapin in a Mercedes and he’ll beat George Russel’s Williams every weekend and Russel is far and away a better driver. Put Hamilton today in an Alpine and watch Verstappen mop the track every single weekend. Lewis is great because he worked so well with the team at Mercedes and the two of them got every ounce of performance they could out of those cars….that were already better than the rest of the grid haha. If Mercedes hadn’t been so overly dominate, there is no doubt that Lewis would still have been good but he would not of had the same level success.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/04/28/...-in-idle-mode/

[Wall_Hanger]

Pretty crazy stats. Regardless of the opinion of him as a driver, Verstappen worked his butt off this year to be in contention with Merc who had arguably better cars and great drivers.

[bossbowman]

Originally Posted by Wall_Hanger

Well, Albon to Williams just got a little more interesting.

So are they just calling it a Redbull engine since Honda is leaving???

[F1addict]

Originally Posted by Wall_Hanger

Pretty crazy stats. Regardless of the opinion of him as a driver, Verstappen worked his butt off this year to be in contention with Merc who had arguably better cars and great drivers.

That’s a crazy stat!!


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[DaveC]

Originally Posted by bossbowman

So are they just calling it a Redbull engine since Honda is leaving???

Haha, good question.
I bet they have an engine assembly line right next to their soda pop making machine.


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[Wall_Hanger]

Originally Posted by bossbowman

So are they just calling it a Redbull engine since Honda is leaving???

It’s been kinda crazy the past several months seeing this play out but Red Bull is actually taking over Honda’s F1 power division. They did this for a few reasons but firstly it will allow them to continue with the same power unit they have had for the past several years and secondly, they will have this held as a separate division of red Bull so they will be able to do it and stay under the spending cap for 2022. The biggest issue Red Bull has had historically is that they are not a true motor company ie Mercedes/Aston Martin/Ferrari but they want to compete with them. By doing this, they will now have their own branded power unit division that in concept will make its way into all of the other Red Bull ventures. If it works it will be quite the game changer and will make them a true “constructor”. Williams has, and this is mostly water cooler talk, been frustrated with Mercedes giving them “N-2” technology ie two version old technology, and thus darrelton made the decision to go with the Honda/red Bull power unit and move away from the Mercedes. This could have huge implications should they become a true mid pack team next year and be competing with Alpha Tauri and/or McLaren or Ferrari.

[WItoTX]

So I know it isn't F1, but I have been itching for more racing since Abu Dhabi. Anyone here going to watch the 24 hours of Daytona this weekend? My suspension tuner is the lead suspension tuner for the #52 Wynn's LMP2. Looking forward to seeing some racing again and finally have a team to get behind!

[bossbowman]

Originally Posted by WItoTX

So I know it isn't F1, but I have been itching for more racing since Abu Dhabi. Anyone here going to watch the 24 hours of Daytona this weekend? My suspension tuner is the lead suspension tuner for the #52 Wynn's LMP2. Looking forward to seeing some racing again and finally have a team to get behind!

24hrs daytona to be the first race I would watch to kick off the racing season, but now that first race is the chili bowl.

[Wall_Hanger]

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/mot...BSNqUywVc7RITE

Here you go guys. Our chance to really own a fun toy!

[F1addict]

Originally Posted by Wall_Hanger

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/mot...BSNqUywVc7RITE

Here you go guys. Our chance to really own a fun toy!

I couldn’t even imagine driving that car! Maybe if we all go in together…


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[Landrover]

Originally Posted by Wall_Hanger

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/mot...BSNqUywVc7RITE

Here you go guys. Our chance to really own a fun toy!

I wonder what it will go for at the auction? Seems rather low starting price based on what they cost and who the driver was. There is definitely a market for it.

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[Wall_Hanger]

Originally Posted by Landrover

I wonder what it will go for at the auction? Seems rather low starting price based on what they cost and who the driver was. There is definitely a market for it.

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If there was even a remote possibility I would fit, I’d be bidding. I mean there’s no chance I’d win bidding at the opening price so what’s the harm haha.

I would bet it goes into the sever figures. That isn’t the championship car is it? Blanking on what years Alanso won but it was just before Hamilton’s first right?

Edit: it’s the ‘04 car so just before his tittles. Also, I had no idea of his non-F1 wins but that guy is impressive. Won Le Mans twice, FIA endurance championship and I believe Daytona. What a career.

[Wall_Hanger]

Land Rover, about time for a new ‘22 thread?

[Landrover]

Originally Posted by Wall_Hanger

Land Rover, about time for a new ‘22 thread?

Wow!!!! I said that to myself yesterday.
We are just getting home from mom and dad's after a week away. I will get it up tomorrow with the latest theories. We have locked in our Miami inaugural package (except hotel) and just waiting on our Austin to send our notice. We talked to a Spain bowhunting outfitter in Vegas at the SCI show and attempting to organize F1 and a somehow. 2022 could really be epic .......especially if covid releases the .

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[Wall_Hanger]

Originally Posted by Landrover

Wow!!!! I said that to myself yesterday.
We are just getting home from mom and dad's after a week away. I will get it up tomorrow with the latest theories. We have locked in our Miami inaugural package (except hotel) and just waiting on our Austin to send our notice. We talked to a Spain bowhunting outfitter in Vegas at the SCI show and attempting to organize F1 and a somehow. 2022 could really be epic .......especially if covid releases the .

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I figured you were our unofficial F1 steward haha. A Spanish double header would be great! Locked in our Zandvoort trip last month, I am absolutely stoked for that.

Agree ‘22 is going to be a heck of a year with the driver changes combined with new cars. Any idea what is actually going on with Red Bull Motors? I read a few days ago that Honda recommitted and was staying in through ‘23 I think? A bit confusing how that is going down.