Sticker Siting/GW Stop all in one!

[DH2000]

I personally was issued a warning for the log not being filled out, but it was the first year it was in affect. The GW told me that after the first year they were not going to be giving warnings for this, it would be a ticket no matter what. I think that maybe if it was done the other infraction would have handled with a warning, you never know. But they are not letting anyone slide on the log issue any more, so everbody keep this in mind and fill it out before you put the liscence back in your wallet and put the tag on.

[Jamie]

Just to make it even more confusing......deer harvested on a MLD permit don't get put in the log

[flyby]

As an LEO, I have mixed feelings on this entire post. First off, I'm pleasantly surprised that things have remained as cordial as they have. Although there's some real disagreements in opinion I'm not seeing the personal attacks I'm used to seeing on other forums. Thanks to all that have posted for that.

As I said earlier, I was not aware of the processing law. Doesn't really apply to me, as I always take my game to a processor, but should I have known- YES. Maybe we should all review the Parks and Wildlife laws and when we find things of interest we didn't know give a heads up to everyone else. Here's a link to the site for those interested.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/

While I'm sorry you received the citations it has been a learning experience for us all.

Yes, LEO's have discretion available. Some are allowed more than others due to department philosophy/politics/goals. Did cameras influence decisions? Very possible.

All of these variables have already been discussed. Personally I try to avoid tickets to normally law abiding citizens. Problem is, I haven't met most people I stop, so I don't know what they "normally" do. I am lied to on a daily basis, often by "normally law abiding citizens". Sometimes it's difficult to differentiate between the two.

My best advice is to go to court and try to make a deal with the prosecutor. If you can't come to an agreement satisfactory to you, go see the judge. Plead no contest, and tell him your story. Explain you have learned your lesson, studied the laws (I would suggest you do that if you are going to tell the judge that), and the mistakes will not be made in the future. Good luck.

[CharlesR]

Sorry to hear about that. Which one of the Game Wardens wrote the ticket. Just wondering because i had a run in with the smaller on on the right in the picture of both of them. He was very nice and understanding but the other was younger and not so understanding.We were stopped on the side of the road at the 281 cut off checking the load that we had. They drove up got out and started looked in the cooler, saw the head and never checked the tags or liceses. But did look through the truck and found a old beer can under the seat that was crush nothing in it was completely dry. Gave us a ticket for open container. Wasnt really looking for things to do with hunting regulations. Didnt leave a good feeeling with me toward them.

[tgil]

After reading this thread, I'm doubting there will be any break given at court time. I don't think it was the intent to break the law, and I don't think it was the intent to bash these GWs, but it hasn't painted a real pretty picture either. My guess is the JP or judge will already know about this thread by the time the court dte gets here.
sorry 'bout that fine, that sux! I think all of us as sportsmen try to do right by the book, but I still get a little nervous I might have overlooked something!

[SaltwaterSlick]

Took me awhile to find it, but here it is. I'll admit I didn't know this either.

Sec. 42.018. TAG TO BE ATTACHED TO DEER. (a) Except as provided by Subsection (d) or commission rule, no person may possess the carcass of a deer before the carcass has been finally processed at a final destination unless there is attached to the carcass a properly executed deer tag from a hunting license provided by the department and issued to the person who killed the deer.

(b) A tag is properly executed only when the month and the date of the kill are cut out and the tag is filled out to show the place the deer to which the tag is attached was killed and to show other information required on the tag by the commission.

(c) If the deer's head is severed from the carcass, the properly executed tag must remain with the carcass.

(d) A wildlife resource document completed by the person who killed the deer must accompany the head or other part of the deer not accompanied by a tag if at any time before the carcass is finally processed the head or other part of the deer no longer accompanies the carcass. If a portion of the carcass is divided among persons and separated and the person who killed the deer retains a portion of the carcass, that person shall retain the tag with the portion of the carcass retained by that person. A wildlife resource document shall be retained with the head of a deer that is not kept with the carcass until the head is delivered to the owner after taxidermy or, if not treated by a taxidermist, until delivered to a final destination.

(e) Final processing for a deer carcass may occur only at a final destination.

(f) This section does not prohibit a person before delivering a deer carcass to a final destination from removing and preparing a part of the deer if the removal and preparation occur immediately before the part is cooked or consumed.

Hey gang, I'm not going to get into the fray as to whether or not the citations were justified, etc. But there is a very IMPORTANT point that needs to be made more directly than it has so far, and that is if you look at the above quote from the regs, item 42.018 (c) should be paid careful attention to. Those tags on your licenses are specifically "carcass" tags, and if you "sever" the head from the rest of the animal (deer or turkey) the tag goes on the carcass NOT the head. When these new regs changes went into effect several years ago, the TPWD produced a hand out, had it on their web site, and even issued those warning citations for a couple years about improperly tagged game, and one of the deals is that the tag does on the carcass not the head.

A couple "well informed" TBH'ers whom I have a great deal of respect for have posted up comments about a "properly tagged head" being in the truck, etc. and that is in error. From all the comments posted on this thread, it appears that a good number of TBH'ers do not properly tag their game. What we do is split the Achilles heel tendon and attach the tag there on all the deer we kill. If you skin a short portion of it and tie it on good (we usually use a string from the top of a corn sack), when you skin the animal, the tag just stays in place. When you quarter it, the tag is still attached to the "carcass", that way you don't have to remember to move the tag when you cut the deer's head off. GW's in Val Verde and Kinney counties have been known to cite people for this violation.

...sorry for the long read, but thought it important and might keep someone out of trouble.

Leggy/Michael, sure sorry for your misfortune, but sure was a good write up and wel documented story.

Leggy, is that a TRV950 camera in that first photo of your stand set up? .. I have 2 of those and love them... great cameras.

[Archery1st]

That sucks!

Warnings are giving for license plates all the time...I think the camera and being cordual got you out of this ticket.

But IMO - I think you were screwed with the game warden for bringing out the camera.

Posting pictures and a story on a hunting website of a stop made by DPS and then game wardens being called with improperly logged/tagged and processed meat sets a presidence that others could reference a website in any legal matters.

So I think they had to give you a ticket. Regardless of how innocent it was.

[Devin]

Thanks for your POV, Flyby. My best friend in high school is a HiPo now and he tells me that what gets him the most is that he is lied to by almost everyone he deals with daily. I can see a big change in him over the years because of this. He used to always be, by far, a "benefit of the doubt" type fellow... now he's by far the "doubt before the benefit" type. Unfortunate, but I understand the reason.

[Arrowsmith]

Just to make it even more confusing......deer harvested on a MLD permit don't get put in the log

True.

Use of license tags and deer log is not required for white-tailed deer lawfully taken under a MLD permit, Lamps permit, TPWD Special Drawn Public hunt permit, U.S. Forest Service antlerless permit or on Big Time Texas Hunt.

[Artos]

A couple "well informed" TBH'ers whom I have a great deal of respect for have posted up comments about a "properly tagged head" being in the truck, etc. and that is in error.

WOW, I missed this completely...I asked this specific question 2 years ago when my taxi asked me for a decent cape on my next cull. I got to looking at my meat in the cooler and ball of fur / face and horns (i only cape up to the base of the neck....face is way too hard). Called GW and said leave the tag w/ the body. Nice catch SWS.

Surprised this was not mentioned by leggy's warden's??

[Spineshot]

I guess, the main thing I am taking away from this situation is to keep it "strictly business". No small talk, don't offer up any more information than is necessary.
Sux that it has to be that way, but the GW's have a job to do and we are just another source of income.
I will definitely make sure all my I's are dotted and T's crossed.
Good luck with the fines Leggy.

[Atfulldraw]

Sorry about the tickets.....

as Dale said, a positive attitude will likely result in reduced fine amounts and possible dismissal of at least one of the citations.

It is tough to keep up with all the laws and regulations....

I recommend carrying a lawyer with you at all times.

We just had the discussion about eating deer meat in camp -- you can eat whatever you debone. Technically, I guess you can't keep the leftovers and carry them home, but isn't that wanton waste?

[SOLID EAGLE]

Sorry for your troubles. I think we have all learned something from this.

Look on the bright side, maybe you'll make their website too, on the TPWD Game Warden Field Notes.

[Legdog]

Sorry to hear about that. Which one of the Game Wardens wrote the ticket. Just wondering because i had a run in with the smaller on on the right in the picture of both of them. He was very nice and understanding but the other was younger and not so understanding.We were stopped on the side of the road at the 281 cut off checking the load that we had. They drove up got out and started looked in the cooler, saw the head and never checked the tags or liceses. But did look through the truck and found a old beer can under the seat that was crush nothing in it was completely dry. Gave us a ticket for open container. Wasnt really looking for things to do with hunting regulations. Didnt leave a good feeeling with me toward them.

In the picture you reference, the guy on the left was the one who wrote me up. Both were nice and cordial. Just doing their job (repeated for claities' sake).

There seems to be a recurring thought on this thread... that my camera contributed to the eventual outcome. I know they are that way in Mexico but I always thought that was because of the corruption. Problem is, if having my camera out was wrong, you have to consider my point of view which was that I had nothing to hide. Honestly, the smiling trooper and easy flow of banter made me feel like I was merely putting the photographic icing on the cake on yet another outstanding opener in Eastland County. Unlike the previous example of the frequent speeders (who no doubt endanger many lives speeding), I had no clue I was about to be issued a citation for anything.

Funny thing, they did not menntion I had improperly tagged the deer by putting the tag in the doe's ear. Yet another confusing issue that I'm sure will come up again. Every doe I have ever taken (and I'm a serial doe bowhunter) has been tagged in the ear with a zip tie. My normal routine is to take the backstraps \ tenders to cook in my home and take the hams/shoulders/trimmings to the processor.

Live and learn. I'm enjoying the discussion.

[kramer]

Whoaaaaa.
This thread did not start with the intention of being negative, and I feel that it is far from it. I think others will agree with me that this is just a reminder that all hunters need to be aware of the "ticky-tacky" laws that are in place, regardless of how long they have been around.

It is easy to forget, and not be informed on all aspects of the law.

The men involved in this have stated NUMEROUS times that they take full responsibility, and are not blaming the LEOs are all. Go back about 10 posts and read it for yourself.

I guarantee if this would of happened to me, I would have ranted a lot more. And I would have NOT been as nice about the situation as Steven and Michael were on the scene. I think others will agree with me when I say this thread could be a bunch of bashing with nothing good coming out of it.

This thread is showing a surprising turn of events that occurred. The "atmosphere" of the incident looked as though everything was going to be handled with a simple reminder for someone that was obviously not trying to cause harm or break laws, (which happens A LOT from Game Wardens). And it turned the other way. Leaving 1 man with 2 tickets, but both men shocked.

This thread is NOT a rant, it is informative and a reminder to pay attention to the little things...

If this had happened to you, you broke the law....what good would come of that??? If you rant and rave enough, you should be let go?? A couple of things about this thread really dont sit well with me:

A thread that has the potential to and has several negative remarks about LEO/GW's should not have made it past page 1.

I am quite shocked that the leadership of TBH has allowed this thread to continue and has also made negative/questioning remarks about LEO/GW.

The longer this continues to go on, I see 2 things happening. There will probably be NO leniency if a court date is requested by the offender and GW's and LEO will probably make EVERY effort to stop vehicles with TBH stickers on them and people WILL be scrutinized.

Ignorance of the law is NO defense. I claim to be no expert, but its every hunters responsibility to know the laws and to abide by them.

I for one can not say enough thanks to the GW's and LEO's out there. They have the most thankless jobs on the planet and many are forced to be cut and dried due to the majority of people they run into on a daily basis.