Got bullets, got powder and primers, reloading time

[RifleBowPistol]

If you know where to look, you can find the stuff, I got more coming soon.

So I bought some 445 Super Mag. brass a while back, to resell. There was no interest in the brass, ok no big deal. I have wanted a 445 Super Mag. for years. Then I found a 445 Contender barrel, but naturally, it was sold when I found the add. Then a week later another guy posted up another 445 Super Mag. Contender carbine barrel. I got that one. Then I still have some H110 from 25 years ago, when I last had a 44 Mag., I had two at the time, that got stolen. Have not gotten around to buying another since. I am picky, if it's not on my short list of choices, I don't want anything to do with it. I had plenty of 240 gr. 44 caliber bullets, from 30 years ago, when I was last loading 240 gr. bullets in my 44 Mags. But after 30 years, I finally sold them, then I go buy a 445 barrel, right afterwards. Then it turns out, the 445 uses large rifle primers, and not large pistol magnum primers. Supposedly the large rifle primers are thicker or deeper, front to rear. I always thought the pistol and rifle primers were the same diameter and thickness. Since the 445 uses large rifle primers, I have those, I use those for my 30-30. I just needed bullets, just like the ones, I just sold. And maybe some dies. From what I have read, you can use 44 Mag. dies, or 445 Super Mag. dies or 44 Schafer Ultra Mag. dies. the Schafer Ultra Mag. dies are supposed to work best. So I will be looking for some, at some point, for now, I have my old RCBS 44 Mag. dies.

I did a good bit of reading on the 445 Super Mag. and it's predecessor, the 44 Schafer Ultra Mag. They like the other Super Mags, seem to have had problems in revolvers. But they seem to work great in guns that don't have a cylinder gap, such as a Contender carbine barrel. The velocities I saw for a 16" barreled 445 Super Mag. shooting 300 gr. bullets are pretty close to a 16" barreled 458 SOCOM. So the ballistics are pretty impressive, if chambered in the right gun. But not in revolvers, from what I have read.

Just a little info on the Super Mags. There is the 357 Super Mag. which is virtually identical to the 357 Maximum, both can be fired from the same guns, both have the same problem of flame cutting revolver barrels. Then there is a 375 Super Mag., 414 Super Mag and then the 445 Super Mag. You can shoot 357 Magnums out of a 357 Maximum, same for the 414 Super Mag, you can shoot 41 Magnum ammo out of them. Then you can shoot 44 Mag. ammo out of a 445 Super Mag. Elgin Gates designed the calibers in the 1970s. Then Dan & Wesson built special long frame, long cylinder guns for those calibers, starting in the early 80s. Before Gates designed the 445 Super Mag. Lew Schafer designed the 44 Schafer Ultra Mag., the two calibers are virtually identical. The Gates Super Mag. cartridges had problems when chambered in the Dan & Wesson revolvers. For some reason, the extra powder caused the burning powder charge, to flame cut the rear end of the barrel, causing the gap between the cylinder and barrel to increase. This resulted in a increase of burning gasses escaping between they cylinder and barrel. With all of the burning gasses escaping from between the cylinder and the barrel, the velocities would not be much higher than common 44 Mag. velocities for the same weight bullets. In a rifle barrel, the 445 produces velocities, about half way between a 44 Mag. and a 444 Marlin.

I plan on experimenting with 240 gr, 265 gr. and 300 gr., bullets. At this point, I have some 240 gr. hollow points. I have found some 220 gr., 240 gr., 265 gr and 300 gr. bullets.

So this weekend I am going to start loading some 445s and then some 10mms. I also got some primers and powder, so I can load some 10mms. I have plenty of bullets, brass and dies. I have not loaded any 10mm in about 30 years, picked up some Longshot, never used that powder before. But it is one of the powders I wanted to try, it was the only one, the place I went to had in stock. So that's what I am using for the 10mm. I got plenty of 180 gr. jacketed hollow points, left over from years ago.

From what I am reading, the 445 should make for one stout, 44 Mag., should make a good close range, 100 yards or less, brush gun. I put the gun on the scale last night, turns out it only weighs 4 lbs. with not scope or mounts. I plan on putting a Sig Romeo 5 on the gun, that or some holographic sight. I want to keep the gun as compact and light as possible. Most of my guns are not small and definitely not light. I weighed my 6.5 Creedmoor also, it weighs right at 12 lbs. The Creedmoor also dwarfs the Contender in size also.

[txpitdog]

If you can get them, I highly recommend the Nosler 240gr jacketed soft point. It has controlled expansion at handgun velocities, but holds together well at rifle velocities. I have used it in my Marlin rifle, and it has punched through both shoulders on some pretty good sized hogs. Easy pass through if shooting behind the shoulder. If you find a load that works, I’d also give running it out to 200yds a shot. I keep my Marlin zero’d for 150yds, and although it’s 8” low at 200 the remaining velocity is equivalent to putting the muzzle of a 4” revolver up against the animal’s shoulder and squeezing the trigger.

Haven’t tried these, but the higher BC overcomes the lighter weight and will carry more energy the last 50yds and cut 2” of drop.

https://bearcreekballistics.com/product/429-hv-reloading-bullets/

I don’t like the FTX bullets in the 44. Light bullet weight and crappy BC. Literally zero improvement over traditional bullets.


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[RifleBowPistol]

Right now, I have some 240 Hornady XPTs, but have found some Nosler 300 gr., then some Sierra silhouette bullets, in 220 gr, 240 gr. and 265 gr.. Also have found Hornady 265 gr. Interlocks found. Then some Hornaday 300 gr. XPTs. Then some Sierra 240 gr. hollow points, and I think some 265 gr. hollow points. Then some Speer 240 gr. and 265 gr. bullets. I am supposed to buy some of the bullets I have found, so I will have a few different choices to try out in the gun.

Yes, I know these guns will reach out a lot father than 100 yards, most of my guns are heavy, because I like heavy bull barrel guns. This gun is very short and light, I want to keep it as short and light as possible. My 18" 30-30 barrel I have for my Contender, I have a 3-9X Burris on that barrel. I thought about and may get another 3-9X Sig scope, like I have on my 458 SOCOM. That scope has very good light gathering abilities, and has held up to some serious recoil from the 458 SOCOM. But that would increase the bulk of this gun, so I am not sure I want to do that, but I may.

Years ago, I read a lot about the handgun silhouette guys shooting the Dan & Wesson, Smith & Wesson, Rugers and Contenders out to at least 200 yards. One of the guys who I am supposed to get some bullets from, used to shoot handgun silhouette with a 44 Mag. He told me some of his loads, what bullets he liked for different ranges. I really wanted to get into handgun silhouette shooting when I was younger, but never found a place anywhere close to where I lived, that held any handgun matches, actually did not know of any rifle or pistol matches, only trap and skeet, that I had no interest in.

I know that the 445 Super Mag. was made for handgun silhouette shooting. Back in the late 80s and 90s, back when I shot a lot of 44 Mag. handguns, and wanted to shoot in handgun silhouette, and I wanted a Dan & Wesson 445 Super Mag. bad, that and a Dan & Wesson in 375 Super Mag. I think I have only ever seen one 445 Super Mag Dan & Wesson, the guy wanted quite a bit for it.

When I was a kid, my first deer rifle was a Ruger 44 Carbine. I only used Remington 240 gr. hollow cavity ammo, they may have been listed as hollow point, but the hole in the nose was huge. I shot a pig and a buck with that combo, then multiple javelina. It worked very well out of that gun. I remember on the buck it did a lot of damage, to the lungs. The hog got shot in the head. I finished off a javelina another guy shot with a 222. I shot it in the neck from about 80 yards. Took a huge chunk out of it's neck, dropped it dead on the spot. I swear it blew the whole top half of the javelina's neck off. It made that javelina very dead, very fast. There was a huge, thick pool of blood that came out of that javelina's neck. I and the other guy were about 12 at the time. When we got to the javelina and saw the damage, we just stood there stunned at the sight. That's been my only experience with a 44 caliber rifle. I have a lot of experience hunting with 44 Mag. 7 1/2" Super Blackhawks.

[txpitdog]

Same here with the SBH. I just use the 250gr Keith nowadays. After seeing it punch lengthwise through a deer with a mild load at only 1200fps from my Bisley Hunter, I realized the recoil of a full power load is only justified if I want to hit at 100yds with it. At 50yds, if it’s going lengthwise, why crank it up further?

Still have the bullet from that deer. Found it about 2 ft behind where the deer fell. Shot him square in the chest, and the bullet exited the ham.

[RifleBowPistol]

My grandfather used to tell me, he worked up cast bullet loads, for a 44 Mag. He had, that would go all the way through a deer, length wise. He wanted to load some ammo for my Ruger 44 Carbine when I had it.

That one buck I shot with the 44 Carbine, I hit it on a quartering shot, to the front of the chest. Got the front of the left lung, did a lot of damage to the right lung, then exited out the rear of the right side of the rib cage.

[RifleBowPistol]

Been doing a lot of searching and reading, trying to find load data for a 445 Super Mag rifle. 98% of what I have found, are pistol loads, using faster burning pistol or shotgun powders. I have a lot of H110, which I planned on using from the get go, but I like to try multiple different powders when loading a new caliber. That and I bought 10X and Reloader Number 7 for my 458 SOCOM, from what I have seen there are a lot of similarities between the two calibers. The velocities are pretty close for the same weight bullets out of the same length barrels. Bore diameters are similar, both lower pressure rounds, both use large rifle primers. I was pretty sure that Reloader Number 7 should work well in the 445, I compared both in many different powder burn rate charts. The Reloader Number 7 is a little slower burn rate than H110. Potentially a little better powder for a carbine or rifle shooting a pistol caliber round. Then 10X is a little slower than Reloader Number 7, in the powder burn rate charts.

I have spent many hours searching for load data for the 445, I keep coming up with the same load data that was cooked up by John Taffin years ago. That data has been copied and reposted so many times, in many places. Most guys seem to only use his load data, I guess, because it's the easiest data to find for this caliber. In his data, he did not use many different powders. He definitely liked H110 for this caliber, I am definitely going to try H110, I already have some loaded.

I kept searching and searching, trying different searches, then finally started finding different load data, created by different people. So I got a lot more load data, for other powders, but still all using fast burning pistol or shotgun powders. But did get data with more powder choices. Then finally I found some Contender forum, where a bunch of guys were talking about loading for their 445s. They listed multiple powders not listed anywhere else, at least two guys listed having used 10X and Reloader number 7. Both of those guys claimed Reloader Number 7 worked very well, one guy claimed it was by far the most accurate powder he tried.

If you are not loading something like a 223 or 308, that has been around for years and still popular today. So there are plenty of people who have tried all types of both old and new powders for that caliber, it can be a royal pain to find load data for a power, for a specific caliber. I have run into this problem with the 458 SOCOM and the 6.5 Creedmoor. Seems most people choose to just load a few powders, that other people claim are the best, some of those are definitely very good choices. I finally started finding load data published by some guy, that tries most any powder that works for a given caliber. So far, the only caliber I have, that he provides load data for is the 458 SOCOM. His data is very interesting and detailed. Sure hope that guy released similar load data for the 6.5 Creedmoor in the near future.

[RifleBowPistol]

At this point, I pulled the scope mount, rings and scope off of my 30-30 barrel, so I can shoot the 445 and see what it will do. I have been thinking of getting a 23" 30-30 barrel anyway. I may sell the 30-30 barrel, but not till I have a 23" barrel. For now, I am not going to worry about it and work on the 445. I am hoping to get over 2000 fps, with a 240 gr. bullet, really wanting to see what this thing will do.

[txpitdog]

Might try aa1680 or imr4227


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[RifleBowPistol]

Might try aa1680 or imr4227


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Yes, those are both some of the common powders, I find a lot of load data for. I don't have either of those powders.

[RifleBowPistol]

I started my loads at 31.5 gr. worked up to 33 gr. in .5 gr. increments, this is with the H110.

At 31.5 gr., the recoil is light, about what I would expect from a 44 Mag. rifle. same for 32 gr., around 32.5 gr. It seemed the recoil went up a bit. Then at 33 gr., there was no questioning, the recoil went up. If felt like I had bumped the powder charge about 5 gr. and not .5 gr. It went from a mild recoil to, a very sharp hard recoil, in a very small powder variation.

I read, that this caliber, there is only a very narrow range, that works for each different type of powder. They say don't go under the recommended minimum and be very careful with max charges. Most places list 33 gr. as max charge, but one source lists 35 gr. as the max charge and one other place lists 37 gr. as the max charge. I wonder, if those are with the bullet seated farther out of the case. Not sure.

I looked up a max charge for H110 in a 44 Mag. with a 240 gr. jacketed hollow point. I found 24 gr.. So the 445, is using around 9 gr. more powder, at least with H110.

From what I am reading, the slower burning powders, such as Reloader Number 7 and 10X, reduce pressures and recoil and allow larger powder charges. Not sure they have the rapid rise in pressures, as the powder charge increases.

Right now, the cell phone, I have my chronograph app on, has a dead battery. So I am charging it and am going to load up some 10X and Reloader Number 7 to try later.

In the pictures, in this post, the one picture of the three case heads. The one case to the left, was 32.5 gr. of H110, the center and the one to the right, are both 33 gr. of H110. All three primers look good, but you can see, the pressures came up quick, with only a .5 gr. increase in powder charge. The two that had 33 gr. of powder are definitely flattened out more. The second picture from the bottom, has the cases lined up, with 31.5 gr. cases to the left, then 32. gr., then 32.5 and 33 gr.

[RifleBowPistol]

The results with the H110 are 2082 fps, 2082 fps and 2083 fps, for the 33 gr. charge. Never seen any caliber, produce such little variation between shots, more so, with so little effort put into it. I ran the numbers through Hornady's ballistic calculator, it came up with 2310 ft. of energy at the muzzle.

I also tried some Reloader Number 7, some of the results were what I expected, some of the results were not. The only load data I found for Reloader Number 7 in the 445 Super Mag. was for 265 gr. jacketed bullets. I am shooting a 240 gr. Hornady XTP. Looks like a cross between a silhouette bullet and a hollow point. It's basically a truncated cone hollow point. The data I found for the 265 gr. bullet with Reloader Number 7, started off, with something like 33.2 gr. and went up to 35.8 gr.

So I started off with 32.5 gr., went up .5 gr. at a time. I went all the way to 37gr. Never had any high pressure signs. So I went to 37.5 gr., still no high pressure signs. But turns out that anything over 36 gr. is a compressed load. When I went back and loaded two more, at 37.5 gr., they came out longer than the previous rounds, The bullet's cannelure was out of the case. I then checked a 37 gr. charged case, the bullet in the case, was also pushed out of the case to the point the cannelure was fully exposed. The bullet in the rounds charged to 37.5 gr., were definitely farther out of the case than the bullet in the rounds charged with 37 gr. of powder.

The powder charge did not seem to be fully burning, below 37 gr. When I got to 37 and then 37.5, the rounds seemed to be burning cleaner. The barrel was very dirty after, firing any rounds with less than 37 gr. of powder. The velocities fell off a lot, with the 32.5 gr. charge, the velocities were down to 1550 fps. But the velocities climbed steadily, as the powder charge went up. At 37.5 gr. of powder, the velocities were up to 1825 fps. The velocity increases, seemed to be higher per half grain of powder, the more powder I put in the case. I was only seeing about 20 to 25 fps, increase between the first couple powder charge increases. But between 37 gr. and 37.5 gr., there was a 60 fps, increase in velocity.

The pressure were definitely down with Reloader Number 7, along with the velocities. It does not seem to be the best choice or the 445, but might be a very good choice for cast bullets with gas checks.

I am going to try 10X next weekend. Not sure it will be a good choice with the 240 gr. bullets, but it should be great with the 300 gr. bullets. The same may be true for Reloader Number 7.

[RifleBowPistol]

Got to shoot the Contender with the 445 barrel again. I got a new stock for the gun. I have never liked the factory T/C synthetic stock. The shape of the grip is awkward to grip and shoot. It works, but I have never liked it. Then I saw the Choate folding stocks. They have a grip that looks just like a AR grip. So I ordered one, got it in a couple weeks ago, but have not had time to shoot the gun, until today. The stock is noticeably heaver, slightly longer. It feels about like a very light AR, when shouldered. So the gun is much more comfortable, than it was with the old stock. Then the recoil is noticeably lower with the new stock. So the new stock is just good all the way around. With the stock folded, the gun will fit in a backpack. I wish I would have found those stocks years ago and bought one years ago. They are a huge improvement over the factory T/C synthetic butt stock.

Yesterday I resized and primed some brass. Then today, I went back to the 33 gr. of H110,powder charge. I finally emptied my old can of H110 out and opened the new can. Right off it is obvious the powder is much lighter colored. The old powder is very dark colored, the new stuff, is a much lighter gray color. All of the cans of powder I have opened in the past, the old powder and the new powder, would both look identical, same size, shape and color. This is the first time I have seen two cans of the same powder, with very different colors. It shot the same, the primers look the same, everything else was the same.

I loaded 10 rounds up, just incase this new powder caused the pressures to increase. I could not tell, which cases had the old powder and which ones had the newer powder. All ten cases got 33 gr. of H110.

After shooting some, I went to look at the target and saw there was a lead bullet core laying on the ground, 8 ft. in front of the target. The gun had been hitting ground in front of the target. So the bullet may have hit the ground, mushroomed and lost it's jacket at the same time. My first thought was the bullet hit the steel plate back stop and bounced back. The odd part, is the jacketing was laying on the ground, between the piece of Hardie Plank and a piece of old plywood. It seems to have only made it through the Hardie Plank, then bounced off of the plywood. The bullet that came apart, or had separation problems, was 240 Hornady XTP bullet.

I finally got the gun sighted in. It took a lot more turns of the turret to get the elevation, up where it needs to be. I kept cranking on the elevation turret, it hit low, in front of the target, every shot, last time I shot the gun. I don't know what happened the last time I was shooting the gun. This time shooting the gun, I found that each click results in small changes, so it much have a 1/8" per click adjustment.