WHAT do you call mature?

[Javelin]

In my area in east Texas antlers tend to start going downhill at the 5.5 age. The typical buck is best from 4.5 to 5.5. By targeting the 4.5 we have two years to kill them before they decline much. I shot a 5.5 year old three years ago that had lost 8-10 inches from the year prior. It all has to do with nutrition IMO. Where I hunt there is not great nutrition so they get old fast. Other places I have hunted have better nutrition ( both native and supplemental) and deer get bigger at these older ages

[malky102]

I know a guy that sends off the bottom jaws of all the deer killed on his place in shackelford county. He got the results the other day and two of them where 11 years old.

[jshouse]

In my area in east Texas antlers tend to start going downhill at the 5.5 age. The typical buck is best from 4.5 to 5.5. By targeting the 4.5 we have two years to kill them before they decline much. I shot a 5.5 year old three years ago that had lost 8-10 inches from the year prior. It all has to do with nutrition IMO. Where I hunt there is not great nutrition so they get old fast. Other places I have hunted have better nutrition ( both native and supplemental) and deer get bigger at these older ages

can u show pics of the buck that declined at 5.5, with his 4.5 pics too?

[FCTrapper]

In my area in east Texas antlers tend to start going downhill at the 5.5 age. The typical buck is best from 4.5 to 5.5. By targeting the 4.5 we have two years to kill them before they decline much. I shot a 5.5 year old three years ago that had lost 8-10 inches from the year prior. It all has to do with nutrition IMO. Where I hunt there is not great nutrition so they get old fast. Other places I have hunted have better nutrition ( both native and supplemental) and deer get bigger at these older ages

This is a common!!!!! 4 year olds tend to rut the hardest and run the roads the most. They are just like 18 year old kids with a fast car. Haha.

I see many bucks drop or stay the same from 4 to 5 years old. They tend to bounce back (depending on conditions) after 5 and rarely go down due too heavy rutting activity. It's almost as if they figure things out. Just like the young bull and the old bull story . You are correct in the fact Nutrition and range conditions always play a factor in antler growth. Bucks tend to decline once they can't feed themselves due to toothware which limits their nutritional intake. Knowing your herd and tendencies of certain bucks allows you to manage different bucks differently. We like to let the bucks that are protein hounds live a year or two longer. Bucks that don't live in the feed pens all summer will be more on the target list. Also we look at personalities of bucks. A buck that is super aggressive and dominant tends to not make big jumps in antler size. The more reclusive docile bucks are the ones that I let get old because they will be less likely to get run down. Then allowing them to have a jump on antler growth the next year. The biggest bucks actually breed the least of all the bucks due to their introverted personalities.

One Interesting observation that I have was when we had one MONSTER young buck (named him DumDum) at 3 years old and he was super gentle and we would never see him rutting or display aggressive behaviors for several years. Then one year we shot a big dominant buck (130 class 8pt) that lived in the same area. After we shot that buck dominant buck DumDum became a breeding and rutting machine. We figured he was so oppressed / bullied by the other buck that he just stayed to himself. Once the dominant buck was gone he rutted hard and never did become the monster we had hoped. Knowing your herd will allow better opportunities for growing big bucks.

[Aggieivy06]

In my area in east Texas antlers tend to start going downhill at the 5.5 age. The typical buck is best from 4.5 to 5.5. By targeting the 4.5 we have two years to kill them before they decline much. I shot a 5.5 year old three years ago that had lost 8-10 inches from the year prior. It all has to do with nutrition IMO. Where I hunt there is not great nutrition so they get old fast. Other places I have hunted have better nutrition ( both native and supplemental) and deer get bigger at these older ages

I've hunted East Texas a long time as well but we started heavy supplemental feeding in the mid 90s and have seen a lot better results. It's true ETX doesn't have the natural mineral and protein that's available in STX, and without a protein boost (and softer food to save their teeth), it's possible they may peak earlier.

However, something to remember is that 4 and 5 year old bucks are like young 20-something men and they will rut like crazy. When they do that, their bodies get run down and their antlers can pay the price the next year (but they usually bounce back the year after). Sometimes a deer will make his biggest jump between 5-6 or 6-7 because his skeleton is finished growing and more energy can go to growing the rack.

The main problem with ETX (and most other areas in TX) is age--not nutrition. There is usually enough rainfall to plant great good plots throughout the year even if you cannot afford a heavy supplemental protein pellet program. Most places are smaller acreages and there are tons of hunters. If your neighbors don't share the same philosophy, it's hard to let bucks reach that age unless you have the luxury of large acreage and/or a high fence.

Being from ETX and hunting there my whole life, I can say that a super majority of hunters have never even seen a buck over 5.5 years old and it's not for lack of trying. When lots of bucks are killed at younger ages, it destroys the target "trophy" age class. If you think about it, of the three main ingredients for growing big bucks (age, nutrition, genetics), there is really only one that hunters can control--regardless of his financial resources or geographic location. I think ARs are going a long way to help that and allow bucks to survive a year or two longer until they reach skeletal maturity. There are big (and older) deer in ETX, just not as many as STX.

[Aggieivy06]

This is a common!!!!! 4 year olds tend to rut the hardest and run the roads the most. They are just like 18 year old kids with a fast car. Haha.

I see many bucks drop or stay the same from 4 to 5 years old. They tend to bounce back (depending on conditions) after 5 and rarely go down due too heavy rutting activity. It's almost as if they figure things out. Just like the young bull and the old bull story . You are correct in the fact Nutrition and range conditions always play a factor in antler growth. Bucks tend to decline once they can't feed themselves due to toothware which limits their nutritional intake. Knowing your herd and tendencies of certain bucks allows you to manage different bucks differently. We like to let the bucks that are protein hounds live a year or two longer. Bucks that don't live in the feed pens all summer will be more on the target list. Also we look at personalities of bucks. A buck that is super aggressive and dominant tends to not make big jumps in antler size. The more reclusive docile bucks are the ones that I let get old because they will be less likely to get run down. Then allowing them to have a jump on antler growth the next year. The biggest bucks actually breed the least of all the bucks due to their introverted personalities.

One Interesting observation that I have was when we had one MONSTER young buck (named him DumDum) at 3 years old and he was super gentle and we would never see him rutting or display aggressive behaviors for several years. Then one year we shot a big dominant buck (130 class 8pt) that lived in the same area. After we shot that buck dominant buck DumDum became a breeding and rutting machine. We figured he was so oppressed / bullied by the other buck that he just stayed to himself. Once the dominant buck was gone he rutted hard and never did become the monster we had hoped. Knowing your herd will allow better opportunities for growing big bucks.

Hahahaha! I posted the young boy analogy at like the same time! Good luck this year--y'all have some beasts on camera and all the rain we got in STX is gonna make this season really interesting.

[jshouse]

This is a common!!!!! 4 year olds tend to rut the hardest and run the roads the most. They are just like 18 year old kids with a fast car. Haha.

I see many bucks drop or stay the same from 4 to 5 years old. They tend to bounce back (depending on conditions) after 5 and rarely go down due too heavy rutting activity. It's almost as if they figure things out. Just like the young bull and the old bull story . You are correct in the fact Nutrition and range conditions always play a factor in antler growth. Bucks tend to decline once they can't feed themselves due to toothware which limits their nutritional intake. Knowing your herd and tendencies of certain bucks allows you to manage different bucks differently. We like to let the bucks that are protein hounds live a year or two longer. Bucks that don't live in the feed pens all summer will be more on the target list. Also we look at personalities of bucks. A buck that is super aggressive and dominant tends to not make big jumps in antler size. The more reclusive docile bucks are the ones that I let get old because they will be less likely to get run down. Then allowing them to have a jump on antler growth the next year. The biggest bucks actually breed the least of all the bucks due to their introverted personalities.

One Interesting observation that I have was when we had one MONSTER young buck (named him DumDum) at 3 years old and he was super gentle and we would never see him rutting or display aggressive behaviors for several years. Then one year we shot a big dominant buck (130 class 8pt) that lived in the same area. After we shot that buck dominant buck DumDum became a breeding and rutting machine. We figured he was so oppressed / bullied by the other buck that he just stayed to himself. Once the dominant buck was gone he rutted hard and never did become the monster we had hoped. Knowing your herd will allow better opportunities for growing big bucks.

i read something the other day, maybe on here, that was saying how certain bucks have been shown to have a huge jump in antler size the year after the "bully" was killed. they attributed it to the stress that some of the 2-3-4 year olds are under from being bullied around, once that bully is gone they are able to "let go" and have shown huge jumps.

[jshouse]

In my area in east Texas antlers tend to start going downhill at the 5.5 age. The typical buck is best from 4.5 to 5.5. By targeting the 4.5 we have two years to kill them before they decline much. I shot a 5.5 year old three years ago that had lost 8-10 inches from the year prior. It all has to do with nutrition IMO. Where I hunt there is not great nutrition so they get old fast. Other places I have hunted have better nutrition ( both native and supplemental) and deer get bigger at these older ages

it would be very interesting to see something from your place that made it to 6+ to see if they would bounce back, like FCT said.

[FCTrapper]

i read something the other day, maybe on here, that was saying how certain bucks have been shown to have a huge jump in antler size the year after the "bully" was killed. they attributed it to the stress that some of the 2-3-4 year olds are under from being bullied around, once that bully is gone they are able to "let go" and have shown huge jumps.

The social hierarchy of Whitetails is pretty amazing. When we got this ranch it had 4 interior high fence pastures. We tore down 22 miles of interior fence almost immediately. Talk about a social structure mayhem!!!!!!! It was very interesting to say the least , looking back now I would bet the stress factor was real high. We still have bucks that don't cross the invisible fence line.

[elgato]

Great job FCT. Many folks never have the opportunity to see many if any older age class bucks. It's a real priviledge to get to spend time around a herd that has lots of older class animals. Aging older whitetails can be a real art and challenge. As you said, nothing beats...'Know thy herd!'. Agreeing with you I think 7-8 yrs old is the sweet spot for most bucks in well fed herds even here in Louisiana.

[Aggieivy06]

The social hierarchy of Whitetails is pretty amazing. When we got this ranch it had 4 interior high fence pastures. We tore down 22 miles of interior fence almost immediately. Talk about a social structure mayhem!!!!!!! It was very interesting to say the least , looking back now I would bet the stress factor was real high. We still have bucks that don't cross the invisible fence line.

Very interesting. Also goes to show why culling bruiser 8s and 9s isn't just a fun way to let friends and family kill a dream buck. It's actually letting those young 10s and 12s get more time at the feeder and take home a few more ladies.

[BBBGP]

FC, love the information. Thank you.

[KingsX]

If you've been in management hunting long enough what FCtrapper has posted becomes the obvious trend for mature buck opinions and the 4 to 5 year old drop in horn size due to peak rutting age and "the toll it takes on a 4 yearold".
I've had many years of thinking one way or another about management and what's mature. After all the protein feeding on one place I had,the aggressive culling on one place I had and the years of running trailcameras I've see a lot of things change my views. Now the cruise control is set on my management views on age and culling.
I believe 4.5 is mature in most cases but maybe still too early to shoot a buck for his full potential. Our bigger scoring bucks average 6.5 or older. I don't like culling too many bucks but agree it can be done for carrying capacity mainly. I've seen too many 5.5 yearold 115-125" "cull/management" bucks slip through the cracks that turned into great 140-150" class bucks. I've seen a few visually messed up horn bucks "most people say inferior" turn into respectable 130" bucks with normal racks the very next year. None of those bucks had noticeable wounds or injuries either. Not even any evidence of a damaged horn in velvet. Just grew one side or both poorly and abnormal the one year.
For us mature is 4.5 old per our biologists opinion on skeletal structure and we agree. The full potential of a buck is the real gamble but for us its usually 6.5 old or older making it somewhat easy to stay away from mistakes.

[Mexdeer19]

Great write up. We averaged 7.5 on the bucks we harvested last year on our pasture. All these deer had sagging briskets, scars, and worn knees. I use to think huge body meant old age but I changed when we shot a 3.5 to 4.5 old management buck that field dressed 185. Deer are like humans, genetics plays a big role in their antlers and their body size. We have two strains of deer on our lease.

[Rich-Kat]

Thanks for the information, picked up a few things that had never been brought up before to me. Thanks FC