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Old 01-09-2019, 07:48 AM   #51
Low Fence
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Having lived here my whole life and seeing the situation at lands end it’s an easy fix that the “haves” can’t grasp

(And there are no, zero, not a single malnutrition issues and deformed deer there. None)

1. Quit feeding the &@$%ing deer. QUIT. they will go away.... they can walk. I’ve seen em do it
That would reduce numbers alone to the point of “coexistence “

2. Spend your money on a high fence. It’s a peninsula.... so that will help with cost. Fence em out and stick it with unicorns or something that doesn’t effect surrounding land owner. This is the one and only way I would support a one time trapping

They created their problem
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Old 01-09-2019, 07:53 AM   #52
UncleBubba
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They have the same issue at Holly Lake Ranch golf course. They were allowing a small group of bowhunters to shoot as many as they could. It was working out really well, not sure if they are still doing it. Rocky, you may want to get some info on that to counter with.
That must have been a long long time ago, no hunting allowed at Holly Lake... They had the same type slaughter not to long ago. Paid an outrageous amount to have it done as well. They could have raised money with a draw system or selling tags to allow bowhunters to hunt. There is enough property uninhabitable there that no one would even notice. I hunted hogs along the river while I lived there, it wasn't unusual to hear gun shots either. It's a shame they let the population get to that point, goes to show that hunting and conservation go hand in hand.
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Old 01-09-2019, 07:55 AM   #53
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They did the same thing at Cape Royal on Lake Livingston, the cost after a couple years changed the minds of those paying the bills. They now have draw hunts throughout the season with certain rules that seems to be working for them.
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:00 AM   #54
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I don't understand why in these situations the TPWD, HOA or any other governing entity does not come down on the idiots feeding the deer?

The deer are not coming there to eat shrubs, they are coming for the idiot that spreads a 50# bag of corn out on their lawn and then quits or misses a few days and the deer browse the shrubs in the neighbors yards

Kyle hit the nail on the head, high fence them out.

Probably cheaper than what they are doing AND it does not involve my taxes (TPWD biologist)
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:07 AM   #55
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Sounds like the idiots in my neighborhood that complain about coyotes in their back yard and post pictures on next door and in the same picture is a deer feeder. Boy, I wonder why those coyotes are hanging around.
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:21 AM   #56
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We have a bunch of idiots where Im at that do the same thing Mayhem, they don't believe that coyotes can kill deer. All mountain lions according to them. I gave up trying. I also don't feed and the deer won't hang around my property vary long. Other neighbors complain, then I drive by and they're out there feeding the deer. People are half baked, I swear.

We had a bout of hoof and mouth a few years ago that took out a bunch of the deer, no-one learned anything from that either. Sometimes you just have to let things happen.
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:31 AM   #57
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I went with a well known trapper that was contracted by TPWD to Hollywood Park in San Antonio a couple of times around 2005 and loaded up trailers full of deer. Some of the deer that died were brought to a slaughterhouse and sent to feed the needy. The others we brought to a ranch designated by TPWD and released them. This was all done under with game wardens present, and any property owners that interfered were ticketed.
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:59 AM   #58
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A fence would help for sure. My family and I drove to Orlando this past Thanksgiving and I noticed a "high" fence as soon as we passed into Florida on both sides of the road. 100 miles later I noticed the same fence on both sides of the road. My wife did a little research and the state paid to have this fence built to "protect" cars on the road and create a deterrent for deer crossing the highway. They had such an over populated area that it was a hazard to the travelers going through the state that the Highway was labeled as a "Danger" which was a deterrent for humans to go to the State. So they spent Millions on this fence and it for the most part was successful. I didnt see 1 deer on the side of the road while driving though those areas (which I was bumed about). This would work for communities as well.
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:11 AM   #59
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whats the difference in them trapping deer that frequent your property and someone building a high fence around their land, essentially preventing deer from frequenting your property?
Nothing, but as of now, there is no fence and the deer are free range but are concentrated on the tip of the peninsula due to feeding. In this case, a fence would be to keep deer out, and would actually increase the population outside the fence. I doubt the homeowners would open to a high fence, and due to deer being able to swim from the other peninsula at the mouth of Littlle Caney, it wouldnít be long before the subdivision would repopulate.
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:36 AM   #60
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Posted for rocky-
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:43 AM   #61
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I’m not a fan of feeding deer or hunting fed deer, but after getting word about the trapping,I started feeding in an effort to lure some deer away from the subdivision. As you can see, corn is like crack to a deer. These deer are less than 15 yards from me, off my back porch. Some of the landowners in the subdivision have been feeding for years, and have concentrated the deer, creating their own “overpopulation” problem. There is plenty of space north of the golf course for the deer to spread and be controlled by hunting.
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:58 AM   #62
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The neighbors WANT them.... but with a ultra “safe space” and feed they stay concentrated there. Easy to grasp concept


ANY “biologist “, cough coughthat thinks they can control an open ranged animals numbers on small acres is a bafoon. A high fence is essential to control the situation..... but I’m no “biologist “
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:09 AM   #63
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Interesting takes on this
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:24 AM   #64
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Well, the above pic kind of tells the story. If that's your back yard, and your property isn't even where the most deer are, you plainly have too many deer. The pic shows 14 deer and if I remember correctly, you only have 15 acres. If those deer (and others) are spending most of the time on your place, that's a density of 1.1 acres per deer, a ridiculously high deer density and much higher than any habitat can support. Even with the extra feeding, it is impossible to not see declines in habitat and animal health at those densities. Besides, I'm sure the goal isn't to eradicate the deer, just thin them out some. There are many articles in the literature on how archery hunts are ineffective at controlling deer numbers. It does increase hunter opportunity, and is successful usually at getting some deer killed, but never works to accomplish the goal of regulating deer numbers.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:26 AM   #65
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The way I look at it, is that these deer are just as much mine as they are the landowners in Landís End.
You look at it wrongly. The deer belong to the state of Texas, that is indisputable.

If the determination is based on sound science and biologist recommendation then our opinions of it are about as valid as PETA protesting grizzly de-listing.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:31 AM   #66
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Well, the above pic kind of tells the story. If that's your back yard, and your property isn't even where the most deer are, you plainly have too many deer. The pic shows 14 deer and if I remember correctly, you only have 15 acres. If those deer (and others) are spending most of the time on your place, that's a density of 1.1 acres per deer, a ridiculously high deer density and much higher than any habitat can support. Even with the extra feeding, it is impossible to not see declines in habitat and animal health at those densities. Besides, I'm sure the goal isn't to eradicate the deer, just thin them out some. There are many articles in the literature on how archery hunts are ineffective at controlling deer numbers. It does increase hunter opportunity, and is successful usually at getting some deer killed, but never works to accomplish the goal of regulating deer numbers.
Rocky average deer herd without corn in a few, every now and then

Go just 3/4 mile north of him and deer numbers ave average at best for East Texas

Go 2 miles north and itís a crap shoot to see one. Same habitat.

They have DRAWN these deer in and created the problem. They will scatter and balance themselves if left alone


I honestly see people feed them in back yard so ďthey donít eat front yardĒ..... there is PLENTY of habitat surrounding that is below capacity for these deer they have sucked in... THEY sucked in
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:33 AM   #67
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Rocky are you saying that there are those in society who's views and actions cause their own problems? Then when things go wrong they have enough money and influence with a government entity to manipulate the situation to benefit them, even if it is to the detriment of their taxpaying neighbors? Afterwards the press gets it all wrong because they don't do their job and they too are influenced buy these people? Sounds kind of "Swampy" to me.

Land's end has a HOA. They can stop the feeding if they want. It's also on a peninsula and could easily be fenced on one side to solve the problem once an for all. Otherwise this will be a recurring problem costing more $$.

Sounds like you have tried to resolve this in the past with reason, going about it the right way. That is not a successful strategy in the Swamp.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:34 AM   #68
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I wish to heck I could remember the name of the subdivision near San Antonio that did this back in the 90's. A trapper was called in to relocate the deer that were just all over the place down there. The retired folks that lived there were hand feeding some big un's and all was well until two things happened. 1) Several folks were attacked by the deer getting to the corn bucket or when the home owners tried to "shoo" them out of their gardens, I guess they just lost their fear of people. 2) A few guys were caught using bows to take deer out of their back yards.

In some instances trapping and relocating makes sense.

Richard
I bet it happens in a bunch of subdivisions in SA, but that exact scenario happened in Elm Creek where I grew up. They had these massive nets they'd put fruit and vegetables under and release when the deer showed up. At least 1-2 people got caught trying to bow hunt in the greenbelts every year. Tons of stud bucks because the neighborhood was completely HF'd and they had nowhere to go.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:41 AM   #69
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They trap deer on a lot of subdivisions in San Antonio and horseshoe Bay. I buddy does this. All the deer are taken to a processor and given to the needy. Don’t see a problem with it. Deer belong to the state. They can do as they want with them.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:41 AM   #70
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In fairness to the "they've created the problem" argument, while that's true, they've also created the massive deer population around rocky's place if what Low Fence says is correct about the native population everywhere else.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:46 AM   #71
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I live about 20 miles south in Van Zandt county. As a kid we had no deer to speak of around here but now just about any place with decent habitat has at least a few. The biggest reason we don't have more deer around here is because we have a coyote behind every tree. I am pretty sure the problem at Lake Fork is 2 fold. Feeding the deer and also the lack of coyotes in the subdivision. The way I see it is they caused their own problem. If they want it fixed it should be on them and should not involve any tax payer money. Other than that I don't care what they do. Now if they wanted to just relocate the deer I would be much more interested but only because I have some places they could release them....LOL.

-john
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:02 AM   #72
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Some of you guys criticizing Rocky’s view would feel the exact same way if this were happening near your land.
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:03 AM   #73
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I worked at Links at Lands End in College 15yrs ago and there were not that many deer there, but there were not all that many houses either. If you have more and more houses causing more and more deer to be present that tells you all you need to know about what is causing the influx of deer numbers. THE HOMEOWNERS - Pretty simple solution really. Put in place a no feeding the deer rule and fine the heck out of anybody caught doing so. TPWD shouldn't argue that if they get in on the conversation because that is EXACTLY what they have done with the majority of their state parks locations. They realized years ago the negative effects of wild animals becoming not so wild animals that would eat bread out of your hand in their state parks and put a stop to it.

Last edited by Codie; 01-09-2019 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:11 AM   #74
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I agree 100% with rocky and low fence this is rediculous! Over half the people that live at Lands End feed them non stop! I understand if they want to relocate some of them, but to kill them and feed them to convicts/inmates come on! I have a place that I would love for them to relocate! For them to say malnutritioned is completely stupid! There are P&Y bucks running around the course everywhere and for them to say the horns are crap is a complete lie! Yeah there may be some deer that are dying but it because they prolly don't have a tooth left in their head to eat. What a shame!
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:17 AM   #75
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Quote:
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Why do we not have a say in this matter?
Maybe it's because you don't live there.
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:18 AM   #76
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Again, if you agree that the cause of the problem is all the feeding, you're also agreeing that all those deer wouldn't be there absent the feeding.

It's sort of a "have your cake and eat it too" argument. rocky wouldn't have this massive population of deer if they weren't doing that per everyone that's chimed in from nearby areas that don't have tons of deer.

Do you want to have a massive amount of deer that they reduce every few years when it gets out of control or do you want to have no deer because they're not feeding them?
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:35 AM   #77
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Again, if you agree that the cause of the problem is all the feeding, you're also agreeing that all those deer wouldn't be there absent the feeding.

It's sort of a "have your cake and eat it too" argument. rocky wouldn't have this massive population of deer if they weren't doing that per everyone that's chimed in from nearby areas that don't have tons of deer.

Do you want to have a massive amount of deer that they reduce every few years when it gets out of control or do you want to have no deer because they're not feeding them?
We wouldnít have zero deer, we would have the amount that the natural forage and hunting could support.
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:38 AM   #78
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Maybe it's because you don't live there.
So in your mind, the homeowners can determine what should be done with deer that free range on the surrounding properties. ?
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:43 AM   #79
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We wouldnít have zero deer, we would have the amount that the natural forage and hunting could support.
Agree, but according to everyone that's chimed in from surrounding areas, that number is likely way, way below the number you're going to have even taking the trapping into account. They're also not going to trap every deer leaving you with zero.

Seems like on any given year, you're benefiting from the situation. Maybe every few years when they trap you go back to a normal carrying capacity and then it'll rise right back up? I see almost no scenario in which you aren't at least at par and most years you'll come out way ahead.
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:43 AM   #80
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You look at it wrongly. The deer belong to the state of Texas, that is indisputable.

If the determination is based on sound science and biologist recommendation then our opinions of it are about as valid as PETA protesting grizzly de-listing.
That is totally incorrect. Native wildlife is owned by the People of Texas and managed by the state.
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:59 AM   #81
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Again, I said there was no malnourished or deformed deer that the president of the HOA mentioned in the interview on KLTV.

How would you know? Do you sit at home 24/7 and watch every single deer that inhabits that area? How many trail cams are you running in everyoneís backyards? Even if they didnít feed the deer voluntarilly it doesnít mean they wouldnít be moving in due to more volitary food sources. Sounds to me like you really donít have a dog in this fight and your energy might be better served working on your own property. Lastly just because they are from the city doesnít mean they are clueless, be careful what you assume from others especially if you donít know them personally.
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:12 PM   #82
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I’m friends with a lot of people within a 1 mile area including homeowners in Land’s End, and not a single one has mentioned a malnourished or deformed deer. Of course, there is always a deer in the area that has been injured recently due to whatever, but not deformed or malnourished.
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:20 PM   #83
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I spoke with someone very close to the situation last night. TPWD has been involved in this forever. Their biologist suggested removing MORE deer than the "company" biologist.
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:25 PM   #84
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Comical reading material..
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:30 PM   #85
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http://www.kltv.com/2019/01/08/deer-...BTwxfD58WcTGEY
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:36 PM   #86
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Is this considered high fence hunting?
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:40 PM   #87
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Best of Luck to ya Rocky, I am afraid you will not beat the state.
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:49 PM   #88
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Best of Luck to ya Rocky, I am afraid you will not beat the state.
Do you remember or even know about the slot waiver tournament fiasco on Lake Fork in 1999?👍
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:57 PM   #89
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So in your mind, the homeowners can determine what should be done with deer that free range on the surrounding properties. ?
would landowners have the right to determine what should be done with wild dogs, armadillos, coyotes, feral hogs?

sounds like you are more concerned with your hunting vs whats best for the neighborhood.

I understand whats being said. But tpwd coming in and trapping deer (and killing, relocating, burning, whatever) isnt any different than someone building a high fence and preventing YOU the access YOU think you have to those deer.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:02 PM   #90
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would landowners have the right to determine what should be done with wild dogs, armadillos, coyotes, feral hogs?

sounds like you are more concerned with your hunting vs whats best for the neighborhood.

I understand whats being said. But tpwd coming in and trapping deer (and killing, relocating, burning, whatever) isnt any different than someone building a high fence and preventing YOU the access YOU think you have to those deer.
Iíve killed 5 deer in Texas in the last 8 years. I have not killed a 13 inch buck since AR was put in place. I simply donít really care to hunt around here.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:20 PM   #91
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Iíve killed 5 deer in Texas in the last 8 years. I have not killed a 13 inch buck since AR was put in place. I simply donít really care to hunt around here.
you commented on my statements, but you didnt answer my question
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:31 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
would landowners have the right to determine what should be done with wild dogs, armadillos, coyotes, feral hogs?

sounds like you are more concerned with your hunting vs whats best for the neighborhood.

I understand whats being said. But tpwd coming in and trapping deer (and killing, relocating, burning, whatever) isnt any different than someone building a high fence and preventing YOU the access YOU think you have to those deer.
Landowners should not complain about the overpopulation of wild dogs, armadillos, coyotes and feral hogs if they are feeding them on their front porch.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:37 PM   #93
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you commented on my statements, but you didnt answer my question
You keep referring to no game animals, and not regulated game animals. I donít see the comparison.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:39 PM   #94
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Shouldn't be hard to trap. As much as there around people there more like pets.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:42 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
would landowners have the right to determine what should be done with wild dogs, armadillos, coyotes, feral hogs?

sounds like you are more concerned with your hunting vs whats best for the neighborhood.

I understand whats being said. But tpwd coming in and trapping deer (and killing, relocating, burning, whatever) isnt any different than someone building a high fence and preventing YOU the access YOU think you have to those deer.
If a landowner put up a bird feeder cause his wife loved blue jays... and morning dove took it over, wouldnít it be his right to kill the invasion pest? .....of course as long as a certified Texas biologist said it was ok?
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:54 PM   #96
Lawhunter
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Iíve killed 5 deer in Texas in the last 8 years. I have not killed a 13 inch buck since AR was put in place. I simply donít really care to hunt around here.
Then you just want to complain to complain?
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:00 PM   #97
rocky
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Then you just want to complain to complain?
I have neighbors that hunt, and my wife hunts. I simply believe this was pushed through under For the wrong reasons, without proper census data.
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:04 PM   #98
Txsurveyor2014
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I think if the landowners want to pay the ridiculous fee to have deer trapped every few years, then it is their problem. I agree that feeding them is exacerbating the issue, but it is their property and their money.
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:08 PM   #99
glen
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I think trapping them is also a waste of money. Bow hunting is about the worst way to control population. Best way is to have a professional shooter come in and do his job with direction from biologist. I’m sure there are a lot of us here that claim to know a better way than the biologist. Heck I’ve been hunting and around deer for almost 50 years. That 30 year old that went to A&M and actually studied browse and carrying capacity from scientific data can’t know better than most of usseld proclaimed experts

Last edited by glen; 01-09-2019 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:12 PM   #100
skeeter
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I have neighbors that hunt, and my wife hunts. I simply believe this was pushed through under For the wrong reasons, without proper census data.

if hunting was not in the equation and herds of deer were tearing up your yard, IN SAID NEIGHBORHOOD, do you and the other property owners have the right to determine what how the deer are removed?
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