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Old 06-25-2020, 10:50 AM   #1
SHSU18
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Default Legal Question about Theft

In my neighborhood, people are getting their Chevy rims and tires stolen quite often. My question is, if i get an alert on my camera and someone is stealing my rims and tires, what are my options? If i call the cops they will be long gone by the time they arrive. I thought about shooting their tires with a shotgun....just fear where the shot will ricochet too.
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:02 AM   #2
westtexducks
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Is it at night? Light there *** up with buck shot. If you going to discharge a weapon it needs to be in the head chest area nowhere else. Just asking for a lawsuit. If you can't shoot the person then leave em be call the cops yell at them etc. But don't pull that trigger unless you intend to kill them.

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Old 06-25-2020, 11:03 AM   #3
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aim small miss small
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:05 AM   #4
Chief Big Toe
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so does this fall into, they have to be in your domicile in order to Shoot?
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:06 AM   #5
SmTx
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Already made this a field day for a prosecutor

"he knew they were just there to steal his tires"

Do what you gotta but don't act surprised when you're on the wrong end of the law.
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:06 AM   #6
30-30
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That's what insurance is for.
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:08 AM   #7
30-30
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My LTC class instructor told us deadly force is justified if someone is stealing your property or fleeing with your stolen property.

Whether that's entirely true or not, it could be interpreted 1,000 different ways by a jury.

Not worth it for wheels....
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:08 AM   #8
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Id rather not kill anyone.... thats why i was wondering about shooting the tires on their car...
a new set of wheels can be expensive to watch them drive off with.
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:08 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westtexducks View Post
Is it at night? Light there *** up with buck shot. If you going to discharge a weapon it needs to be in the head chest area nowhere else. Just asking for a lawsuit. If you can't shoot the person then leave em be call the cops yell at them etc. But don't pull that trigger unless you intend to kill them.

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Question 1.You think you are not getting sued either way?
Question 2. You think your legal legal fees are more or less if you shoot them and they do not die?

Both serious questions.
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:09 AM   #10
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I do recall the LTC instructor, telling us, the same, thing,
legal yes, in court in front of bleeding heart jurors, not so
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:13 AM   #11
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The wrong ricochet and you get to spend a couple decades in prison.... YOU are responsible for where the bullet stops. If it hits a neighbor in their bed, you are responsible for that bullet.
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:18 AM   #12
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I hate a thief. Shooting their tires out is a bad idea you gave up your location if they are armed and i bet most are. I don’t think taking a life should be taken lightly if your life isn’t threatened call the police run them off. Now if you are in a very rural area and you own/have access to a backhoe and your wife can keep a secrete game on?
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:21 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHSU18 View Post
Id rather not kill anyone.... thats why i was wondering about shooting the tires on their car...
a new set of wheels can be expensive to watch them drive off with.


My interpretation is you would be legally justified in using deadly force under certain conditions. But be aware there is language in there that could be very gray and could go either way. You would need to review the penal code for the specifics.

As to “shooting their tires out” I wouldn’t recommend that. IMO if you resort to deadly force it should be just that. I don’t think intentionally discharging a weapon at their tires would be legally justified use of deadly force.


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Old 06-25-2020, 11:22 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by myway View Post
Question 1.You think you are not getting sued either way?

Question 2. You think your legal legal fees are more or less if you shoot them and they do not die?



Both serious questions.
Theft of property at night I have the legal ability to shoot them. And **** right they are getting shot trying to take my stuff. They don't want shot leave my stuff alone.

Long as the shoot is legal then not worried about a lawsuit. And at night taking my stuff. Pretty sure that is legal. Will have to post the laws when I get back to my computer.

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Old 06-25-2020, 11:25 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
My interpretation is you would be legally justified in using deadly force under certain conditions. But be aware there is language in there that could be very gray and could go either way. You would need to review the penal code for the specifics.

As to “shooting their tires out” I wouldn’t recommend that. IMO if you resort to deadly force it should be just that. I don’t think intentionally discharging a weapon at their tires would be legally justified use of deadly force.


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Exactly. Do not discharge a weapon unless you plan on killing then with it. All kinds of legal problems with that. I shoot them and it is legal. As I felt the need to use deadly force and my intent was to kill or stop that threat. By shooting around above into the car etc you just made the case that deadly force was not necessary yet you used it. Lawsuit you will lose every time.

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Old 06-25-2020, 11:25 AM   #16
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A set of tires is way cheaper than the legal fees you would spend in a civil suit even if you are justified & no criminal charges get filed...once you pull the trigger, someone is very likely going to meet you in court.

Save those bullets for a situation where you would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:28 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westtexducks View Post
Theft of property at night I have the legal ability to shoot them. And **** right they are getting shot trying to take my stuff. They don't want shot leave my stuff alone.

Long as the shoot is legal then not worried about a lawsuit. And at night taking my stuff. Pretty sure that is legal. Will have to post the laws when I get back to my computer.

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Not looking for the laws or what you will do in the event of. Just the two questions in regards to your initial statement.
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:28 AM   #18
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If you go out the door guns blazing over a couple rims, you probably not going to like any part of what follows for years to come.
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:29 AM   #19
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IMO just because you have the legal ability doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do. I’m a firm believer in the use of deadly force if needed but I can only justify that if my life or my families life is in danger. I personally feel taking a life is not just cause for them trying to steal my tires (especially with everything going on). My first step would be to have a camera or 2 placed to capture the perps. Now I am not allowed to holding them at gunpoint until police arrive, however I would not be intending on shooting them unless it escalated to where deadly force was warranted. That’s just my 2 cents on the subject.


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Old 06-25-2020, 11:29 AM   #20
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My personal opinion, wheels and tires aren’t worth the headache and what it’ll cost you in court, both in fees and in your time ... even if it’s deemed justified and you’re acquitted. I’d just set off the alarm on my truck and start strobing the porch and driveway lights, armed of course... just in case.

Like someone else said, that’s what insurance is for. I’m front of a jury, a grand jury at that, you roll the dice with a situation like this. Not worth it.
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:30 AM   #21
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https://thenetgunstore.com/

Get one of these and Citizens Arrest maybe?

Seriously though, it poses a good question and dilemma: What do you do if someone is not in your home, posing no threat to you or your family member's safety, but is stealing your property? I could go out there and scare them off, but then they would get away. I could try to physically apprehend one, but who knows if they have a weapon... While I have no idea how I would react in the actual moment, I think would probably have my wife call the cops while I run out there to take pictures/videos of them and their car/license plate, etc... and hope it leads to arrests.
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:31 AM   #22
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shoot first and ask questions later. I mean thats what the rest of the guys with guns do. At least according the general population anyway
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:32 AM   #23
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So sad what we've become.

I see the same pattern here as other crap. Not worth it to stop someone for cursing in a store, then for stealing gum, then car rims, then what? Thieves get bolder by the day just like the rioters when no one stands against them.

Not saying anyone's wrong...as it's not worth it.. Just sucks it came to this.
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:32 AM   #24
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Just run out there buck naked screaming, I guarantee you they will leave in a hurry.
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:38 AM   #25
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Only time to shoot is to eliminate a threat .
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:40 AM   #26
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Tell them that you know "The Legend" and they wont mess with you
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:45 AM   #27
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Tell them that you know "The Legend" and they wont mess with you
Even more reason for them to hurt me lol
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:47 AM   #28
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The wrong ricochet and you get to spend a couple decades in prison.... YOU are responsible for where the bullet stops. If it hits a neighbor in their bed, you are responsible for that bullet.
Think about the Atlanta cop catching the Extra deadly conduct charges
After shooting the guy at Wendy’s and putting a bullet in that car fender
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:48 AM   #29
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Are paint ball guns considered lethal? Would be nice to light up any thieves AND their transportation with colored dye for ease in tracking them down later!

RiverRat1 is correct. It is sad that we have to balance protecting our property with the potential of BS lawsuits. SSS truly needs to be a viable option!
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:50 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by RiverRat1 View Post
So sad what we've become.

I see the same pattern here as other crap. Not worth it to stop someone for cursing in a store, then for stealing gum, then car rims, then what? Thieves get bolder by the day just like the rioters when no one stands against them.

Not saying anyone's wrong...as it's not worth it.. Just sucks it came to this.
Agreed. Until there’s a drain of all of the corrupt politicians who are letting the bad guys win and reign dominance over everyone else, or until there’s a civil war... what can you do?
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:53 AM   #31
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let em steal it. aint worth someone dying over. this isn't the 1800's
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:54 AM   #32
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Pull the pellets out of a couple of shotgun loads. Your choice to aim with wadding or fire into the ground or air. Lol. If I were stealing shuff at night I’d crap my pants to hear a shotgun slide rack and a blast or two go off. Wadding can cause some damage to, sting like a ..... not legal advice just a possible solution that I might have heard employed and taken the report.
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:55 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Tejas Wildlife View Post
Are paint ball guns considered lethal? Would be nice to light up any thieves AND their transportation with colored dye for ease in tracking them down later!

RiverRat1 is correct. It is sad that we have to balance protecting our property with the potential of BS lawsuits. SSS truly needs to be a viable option!
Rule #1 don’t show up to a gun fight with your ****** in your hand
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:56 AM   #34
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I think you can shoot day or night(Joe Horn comes to mind), but the expenses that come with that will suck. The Castle doctrine in Texas says they can not sue you in civil court for the death I believe. But hiring a lawyer to clear your name is expensive.

Texas Castle Doctrine,
Texas Castle Bill or Texas Castle Law
Read about the Law and Guns and how to kill someone in Texas.

AN ACT
relating to the use of force or deadly force in defense of a person.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:

SECTION 1. Section 9.01, Penal Code, is amended by adding Subdivisions (4) and (5) to read as follows:

(4) “Habitation” has the meaning assigned by Section 30.01.

(5) “Vehicle” has the meaning assigned by Section 30.01.

SECTION 2. Section 9.31, Penal Code, is amended by amending Subsection (a) and adding Subsections (e) and (f) to read as follows:

(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor [he] reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor [himself] against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor’s belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:

(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:

(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor’s occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor’s habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or

(C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;

(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and

(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.

(e) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the force is used is not required to retreat before using force as described by this section.

(f) For purposes of Subsection (a), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (e) reasonably believed that the use of force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.

SECTION 3. Section 9.32, Penal Code, is amended to read as follows:

Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(1) if the actor [he] would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and

(2) [if a reasonable person in the actor's situation would not have retreated; and

[(3)] when and to the degree the actor [he] reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to protect the actor [himself] against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or

(B) to prevent the other’s imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

(b) The actor’s belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:

(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:

(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor’s occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor’s habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or

(C) was committing or attempting to commit an offense described by Subsection (a)(2)(B);

(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and

(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used [requirement imposed by Subsection (a)(2) does not apply to an actor who uses force against a person who is at the time of the use of force committing an offense of unlawful entry in the habitation of the actor].

(c) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used is not required to retreat before using deadly force as described by this section.

(d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(2), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (c) reasonably believed that the use of deadly force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.

SECTION 4. Section 83.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code, is amended to read as follows:

Sec. 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY [AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE]. A [It is an affirmative defense to a civil action for damages for personal injury or death that the] defendant who uses force or[, at the time the cause of action arose, was justified in using] deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9 [Section 9.32], Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant’s [against a person who at the time of the] use of force or deadly force, as applicable [was committing an offense of unlawful entry in the habitation of the defendant].

SECTION 5. (a) Sections 9.31 and 9.32, Penal Code, as amended by this Act, apply only to an offense committed on or after the effective date of this Act. An offense committed before the effective date of this Act is covered by the law in effect when the offense was committed, and the former law is continued in effect for this purpose. For the purposes of this subsection, an offense is committed before the effective date of this Act if any element of the offense occurs before the effective date.

(b) Section 83.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code, as amended by this Act, applies only to a cause of action that accrues on or after the effective date of this Act. An action that accrued before the effective date of this Act is governed by the law in effect at the time the action accrued, and that law is continued in effect for that purpose.

SECTION 6. This Act takes effect September 1, 2007.

Last edited by kurt68; 06-25-2020 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:03 PM   #35
SHSU18
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[QUOTE=Tejas Wildlife;14941985]Are paint ball guns considered lethal? Would be nice to light up any thieves AND their transportation with colored dye for ease in tracking them down later!

I like this idea....I can open my side gate and start lighting them up. My house gives me cover if they shoot back and ill obviously have a real gun as well.
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:06 PM   #36
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Even more reason for them to hurt me lol
ya I didn't think that one all the way thru. Scratch that idea lol
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:08 PM   #37
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Shoot their tires out! Or if you have a high cal pistol their engine block.
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:09 PM   #38
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About the best you could do is have cameras setup everywhere in case they hit you one night. Place signs in your yard and on your house that cameras are present, even if they’re not.


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Old 06-25-2020, 12:23 PM   #39
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To me it is not worth taking a life over car rims. now I know you asked the legality of pulling the trigger and as far as I understand Castle Doctrine would apply here.
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:34 PM   #40
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True story...A guy noticed that his "spinners" were being stolen. He went out and shot the guy. He emptied the magazine. He went back in to reload and came back out to finish up the job. The shooter wound up in court and eventually TDC.
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:37 PM   #41
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Rim's? Nope......court and legal fees will destroy you. Not including sitting in prison with their cousins. Protect your family and self ......stuff is replaced easy enough......but your family needs u more!

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Old 06-25-2020, 12:41 PM   #42
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Toss a few of these out of the front door..........problem solved.
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:43 PM   #43
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IF I was of the mind set to stand back and allow someone to steal my stuff I'd move to a safer area.. im not sure deadly force would be the move unless i felt my life was threatened. However the scumbag would know he picked the wrong place ..
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:43 PM   #44
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Save yourself the legal trouble and get a Ford since they only want those Chevy rims.
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:44 PM   #45
pervis
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I caught a guy in college who burglarized a house we were renting. The dude who robbed us was an idiot. He tried to sell our stuff back to us. So we went with it.. i had a buddy who owned a shop a bike store to be exact. So the theif brings our stuff up to my buddies shop. My buddy who owned the place walks out sees the guy, says theyre in the back waiting for u. My buddy leaves his shop walks out the door locks it behind him. Me and my 2 roommates walk out all pistols in hand. Long story short the theif left w no teeth and begging for his life. He left town a few days later. Good times. That was 18yrs ago now.
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:45 PM   #46
Stuck
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Originally Posted by TxSon1836 View Post
To me it is not worth taking a life over car rims. now I know you asked the legality of pulling the trigger and as far as I understand Castle Doctrine would apply here.
It would be worth it to me if they were my rims, his life isn’t worth nearly as much. The legal battle afterwords is not worth it to me, I’ll buy new rims tomorrow. But if I did, there will only be 1 witness in the courtroom. Shame you can be 100% legal and still have to fight a criminals family in court. I should be able to sue the, for my mental anguish.
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Old 06-25-2020, 01:42 PM   #47
Quackerbox
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Originally Posted by Calfroper81 View Post
Tell them that you know "The Legend" and they wont mess with you
I heard the legend got hammered and ended up with a face full of sharpie not to long ago...……..?
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Old 06-25-2020, 02:03 PM   #48
Calfroper81
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I heard the legend got hammered and ended up with a face full of sharpie not to long ago...……..?
We must be talking about a different "Legend". That kind of stuff don't happen too ol GY!!! lmao
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Old 06-25-2020, 02:07 PM   #49
Calfroper81
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I heard the legend got hammered and ended up with a face full of sharpie not to long ago...……..?
This is probably what “The Legend” looked like
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Old 06-25-2020, 02:07 PM   #50
Quackerbox
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We must be talking about a different "Legend". That kind of stuff don't happen too ol GY!!! lmao

No, we're talking about the same nancy ginger. And it happened. Ive seen the pics


Guess I struck a nerve and one of you texted him. Like taking candy from a baby sometimes

Last edited by Quackerbox; 06-25-2020 at 02:13 PM.
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