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Old 10-05-2009, 10:00 AM   #101
oktx
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Question 1. What if they had consumed all the meat in camp and only had a tagged head?
Question 2. What if the meat had been left in quarters but just had the bone removed?
Question 3. What if the entire deer had been consumed and the head had been discarded but still had some blood in coolers and just a tag?

Just asking.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:05 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
It's apples and oranges, but since you drew the (bad) analogy...

For every infraction that's doled out, there are many, many more threads or posts that are simply deleted. In many cases, warnings are given instead of infractions. In most cases, there is some judgement of intent or past history in determining whether an infraction is given, or the level of the infraction. I'm certain I've exercised poor judgement a time or two, however.

As I stated before, the officers certainly weren't wrong. I think they could have used better judgement, perhaps by only giving one infraction, or possibly none, but that's just my opinion, and I don't think I'm wrong for voicing it here. That said, I don't think they're bad guys or mean spirited at all for issuing the citations.

Michael
Double post! Are you post padding again Michael?
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:06 AM   #103
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Did either of you 2 mention...

"Its all about the video"

Where's the dash cam footage?





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Old 10-05-2009, 10:14 AM   #104
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I've slept on it, and I still think it's just a really unfortunate deal, Leggy and Michael. You guys obviously had every intent of being responsible, ethical, and legal hunters, and you were trying to show respect and friendliness to the LEOs you encountered. The LEOs were apparently trying to uphold their duties in a respectful manner as well. The end result is incredibly unfortunate. I have no idea what was in the heads of any of the LEOs involved, so who knows? Just one of those things that will someday make a funny story, while at the same time being one of those "experiences" that teach you something that you'd just as soon not need to know in the first place, I guess.

On a side note, I don't see much need for any of the TBH crowd to be piling on you guys. I'm sure that if it had been any of the rest of us that got ticketed yesterday, we'd all feel very similar to the way you guys feel today.

Last edited by Shane; 10-05-2009 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:24 AM   #105
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Live and learn. All of us TBHers can take something from this. Sorry for the tickets, but congrats on the doe.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:37 AM   #106
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You don't take responsibility by saying things like "ticky tacky" and "us against them." On a thread that could have been positive on an educational note, it has been overwhelmingly negative. The "us against them" used to be against poachers. Now by 2 GW's doing their job not to your liking, it has turned everybody against the evil government. PETA, poachers, etc... should enjoy how this went.
Until you ride with a GW (and I don't mean one time for an hour) and hear all the BS, don't be so quick to judge.

Properly and legally tagged means filling out the tag and the log on the back, IMMEDIATELY, not when the GW checks you hours later or when you feel like it. Everybody was "fixin to" fill it out.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:40 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdubuzz View Post
Live and learn. All of us TBHers can take something from this.
Agree....appears quite a few of us on this thread learned about over processing. If there is lemonade to make, that would be it.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:43 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Shane View Post
I've slept on it, and I still think it's just a really unfortunate deal, Leggy and Michael. You guys obviously had every intent of being responsible, ethical, and legal hunters, and you were trying to show respect and friendliness to the LEOs you encountered. The LEOs were apparently trying to uphold their duties in a respectful manner as well. The end result is incredibly unfortunate. I have no idea what was in the heads of any of the LEOs involved, so who knows? Just one of those things that will someday make a funny story, while at the same time being one of those "experiences" that teach you something that you'd just as soon not need to know in the first place, I guess.

On a side note, I don't see much need for any of the TBH crowd to be piling on you guys. I'm sure that if it had been any of the rest of us that got ticketed yesterday, we'd all feel very similar to the way you guys feel today.
Well said Shane!
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:51 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter4035 View Post
You don't take responsibility by saying things like "ticky tacky" and "us against them." On a thread that could have been positive on an educational note, it has been overwhelmingly negative. The "us against them" used to be against poachers. Now by 2 GW's doing their job not to your liking, it has turned everybody against the evil government. PETA, poachers, etc... should enjoy how this went.
Until you ride with a GW (and I don't mean one time for an hour) and hear all the BS, don't be so quick to judge.

Properly and legally tagged means filling out the tag and the log on the back, IMMEDIATELY, not when the GW checks you hours later or when you feel like it. Everybody was "fixin to" fill it out.
LOL

you took some rather huge leaps with this post... oh well, you are entitled!

Nice post Shane. Agreed
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:56 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by elkhunter4035 View Post
You don't take responsibility by saying things like "ticky tacky" and "us against them." On a thread that could have been positive on an educational note, it has been overwhelmingly negative. The "us against them" used to be against poachers. Now by 2 GW's doing their job not to your liking, it has turned everybody against the evil government. PETA, poachers, etc... should enjoy how this went.
Until you ride with a GW (and I don't mean one time for an hour) and hear all the BS, don't be so quick to judge.

Properly and legally tagged means filling out the tag and the log on the back, IMMEDIATELY, not when the GW checks you hours later or when you feel like it. Everybody was "fixin to" fill it out.


Whoaaaaa.
This thread did not start with the intention of being negative, and I feel that it is far from it. I think others will agree with me that this is just a reminder that all hunters need to be aware of the "ticky-tacky" laws that are in place, regardless of how long they have been around.

It is easy to forget, and not be informed on all aspects of the law.

The men involved in this have stated NUMEROUS times that they take full responsibility, and are not blaming the LEOs are all. Go back about 10 posts and read it for yourself.

I guarantee if this would of happened to me, I would have ranted a lot more. And I would have NOT been as nice about the situation as Steven and Michael were on the scene. I think others will agree with me when I say this thread could be a bunch of bashing with nothing good coming out of it.

This thread is showing a surprising turn of events that occurred. The "atmosphere" of the incident looked as though everything was going to be handled with a simple reminder for someone that was obviously not trying to cause harm or break laws, (which happens A LOT from Game Wardens). And it turned the other way. Leaving 1 man with 2 tickets, but both men shocked.

This thread is NOT a rant, it is informative and a reminder to pay attention to the little things...

Last edited by Hillary; 10-05-2009 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:56 AM   #111
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My money says if you appear in court in person, take responsibility, and ask for leniancy.....the fines will be minimal, and the lesson learned equaly well.


Congrats on the doe! Chicken fry some up tonight, it'll make ya feel better about the deal.
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:01 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
It's apples and oranges, but since you drew the (bad) analogy...

For every infraction that's doled out, there are many, many more threads or posts that are simply deleted. In many cases, warnings are given instead of infractions. In most cases, there is some judgement of intent or past history in determining whether an infraction is given, or the level of the infraction. I'm certain I've exercised poor judgement a time or two, however.

As I stated before, the officers certainly weren't wrong. I think they could have used better judgement, perhaps by only giving one infraction, or possibly none, but that's just my opinion, and I don't think I'm wrong for voicing it here. That said, I don't think they're bad guys or mean spirited at all for issuing the citations.

Michael
Sorry for not giving a better analogy and voicing my opinion which I too think is not wrong. This is like having an argument with my brother, one that neither side ever wins and creates bad feelings all the way around.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane View Post
On a side note, I don't see much need for any of the TBH crowd to be piling on you guys. I'm sure that if it had been any of the rest of us that got ticketed yesterday, we'd all feel very similar to the way you guys feel today.
I beg to differ on this one. I don't see it as piling on simply because the views appear to be closely split. And as far as, if it had been any of the rest of us I would be willing to bet that the "You got what you deserved" crowd would have been out in full force in favor of the Game Wardens.



Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter4035 View Post
You don't take responsibility by saying things like "ticky tacky" and "us against them." On a thread that could have been positive on an educational note, it has been overwhelmingly negative. The "us against them" used to be against poachers. Now by 2 GW's doing their job not to your liking, it has turned everybody against the evil government. PETA, poachers, etc... should enjoy how this went.
Until you ride with a GW (and I don't mean one time for an hour) and hear all the BS, don't be so quick to judge.

Properly and legally tagged means filling out the tag and the log on the back, IMMEDIATELY, not when the GW checks you hours later or when you feel like it. Everybody was "fixin to" fill it out.

Very well put.
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:05 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Hillary View Post
And I would have NOT been as nice about the situation as Steven and Michael were on the scene.
What effect do you reckon this would have on the outcome???

Here's an interesting quote I just got from a conversation I just had with a State Game Warden......" as bowhunters, we expect more of you!!"

There's something to think about!!
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:05 AM   #114
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Sorry about the incident Leggy.

I saw the two game wardens make a u turn right ahead of us thru the east bound median and head west. They were probably head your way.

The White-Tailed Deer Log has become one of the main tools used by game wardens to issue citations. If they check you today or 6 months from now for any reason they will ask to see your hunting license. If there are white-tailed deer tags missing and log is not filled out there will be one or multiple citations issued.

There was a one year "grace period" on the log citations but its about a 100% guaranteed ticket nowdays.

Last edited by Arrowsmith; 10-05-2009 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:07 AM   #115
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Can you have 4 quarters, backstraps, and trimmings from the neck in a bag? Or is that considered "beyond quartering before my final destination"?
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:09 AM   #116
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Man thats sucks. I hunt in ok, i am going to go check for laws like that there. I have delt w GW a ton in OK and have never thought those GWs would write you up for both. I could see writing you up for the log, but meat processing. That laws intent is to keep people from paoching multiple deer and claiming it was one. Its obvoius you were not doing that.
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:12 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishndude View Post
What effect do you reckon this would have on the outcome???

Here's an interesting quote I just got from a conversation I just had with a State Game Warden......" as bowhunters, we expect more of you!!"

There's something to think about!!
I would of just been pretty upset.
It was a pretty shocking outcome of events, IMO.

It would of thrown me for a loop, I don't think it would have been intentional or me attacking a person, but I guess I would have been defensive....

Good point though, and this "negative thread" has brought it to my attention to second guess a lot of actions that I would have showed...
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:16 AM   #118
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I would like to thank all of the LEO's on doing a great job.Keep it up...If you break the law be ready to pay the fines.( stop crying)........

I have gotten so many traffic tickets over the years I can't keep track of them but I don't place blame on the LEO for doing his job.If I don't want to get a ticket I know what to do to stop it...Why would you have a different outlook on them just because you got nailed?
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:19 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Hillary View Post
I would of just been pretty upset.
It was a pretty shocking outcome of events, IMO.

It would of thrown me for a loop, I don't think it would have been intentional or me attacking a person, but I guess I would have been defensive....

Good point though, and this "negative thread" has brought it to my attention to second guess a lot of actions that I would have showed...
Ahh! I see what you mean. It would be rather tough to argue the evidence.
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:19 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trick View Post
Can you have 4 quarters, backstraps, and trimmings from the neck in a bag? Or is that considered "beyond quartering before my final destination"?
Yes you can.

I believe the "intent of the law" is to facilitate identifing the 4 quarters, the backstraps and the trimmings from the neck and rib cage. If processing is taken further it is more difficult for the GW to tell what you have.
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:28 AM   #121
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I personally was issued a warning for the log not being filled out, but it was the first year it was in affect. The GW told me that after the first year they were not going to be giving warnings for this, it would be a ticket no matter what. I think that maybe if it was done the other infraction would have handled with a warning, you never know. But they are not letting anyone slide on the log issue any more, so everbody keep this in mind and fill it out before you put the liscence back in your wallet and put the tag on.
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:34 AM   #122
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Just to make it even more confusing......deer harvested on a MLD permit don't get put in the log
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:39 AM   #123
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As an LEO, I have mixed feelings on this entire post. First off, I'm pleasantly surprised that things have remained as cordial as they have. Although there's some real disagreements in opinion I'm not seeing the personal attacks I'm used to seeing on other forums. Thanks to all that have posted for that.

As I said earlier, I was not aware of the processing law. Doesn't really apply to me, as I always take my game to a processor, but should I have known- YES. Maybe we should all review the Parks and Wildlife laws and when we find things of interest we didn't know give a heads up to everyone else. Here's a link to the site for those interested.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/

While I'm sorry you received the citations it has been a learning experience for us all.

Yes, LEO's have discretion available. Some are allowed more than others due to department philosophy/politics/goals. Did cameras influence decisions? Very possible.

All of these variables have already been discussed. Personally I try to avoid tickets to normally law abiding citizens. Problem is, I haven't met most people I stop, so I don't know what they "normally" do. I am lied to on a daily basis, often by "normally law abiding citizens". Sometimes it's difficult to differentiate between the two.

My best advice is to go to court and try to make a deal with the prosecutor. If you can't come to an agreement satisfactory to you, go see the judge. Plead no contest, and tell him your story. Explain you have learned your lesson, studied the laws (I would suggest you do that if you are going to tell the judge that), and the mistakes will not be made in the future. Good luck.
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Old 10-05-2009, 11:54 AM   #124
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Sorry to hear about that. Which one of the Game Wardens wrote the ticket. Just wondering because i had a run in with the smaller on on the right in the picture of both of them. He was very nice and understanding but the other was younger and not so understanding.We were stopped on the side of the road at the 281 cut off checking the load that we had. They drove up got out and started looked in the cooler, saw the head and never checked the tags or liceses. But did look through the truck and found a old beer can under the seat that was crush nothing in it was completely dry. Gave us a ticket for open container. Wasnt really looking for things to do with hunting regulations. Didnt leave a good feeeling with me toward them.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:01 PM   #125
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After reading this thread, I'm doubting there will be any break given at court time. I don't think it was the intent to break the law, and I don't think it was the intent to bash these GWs, but it hasn't painted a real pretty picture either. My guess is the JP or judge will already know about this thread by the time the court dte gets here.
sorry 'bout that fine, that sux! I think all of us as sportsmen try to do right by the book, but I still get a little nervous I might have overlooked something!
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:03 PM   #126
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Took me awhile to find it, but here it is. I'll admit I didn't know this either.

Sec. 42.018. TAG TO BE ATTACHED TO DEER. (a) Except as provided by Subsection (d) or commission rule, no person may possess the carcass of a deer before the carcass has been finally processed at a final destination unless there is attached to the carcass a properly executed deer tag from a hunting license provided by the department and issued to the person who killed the deer.

(b) A tag is properly executed only when the month and the date of the kill are cut out and the tag is filled out to show the place the deer to which the tag is attached was killed and to show other information required on the tag by the commission.

(c) If the deer's head is severed from the carcass, the properly executed tag must remain with the carcass.

(d) A wildlife resource document completed by the person who killed the deer must accompany the head or other part of the deer not accompanied by a tag if at any time before the carcass is finally processed the head or other part of the deer no longer accompanies the carcass. If a portion of the carcass is divided among persons and separated and the person who killed the deer retains a portion of the carcass, that person shall retain the tag with the portion of the carcass retained by that person. A wildlife resource document shall be retained with the head of a deer that is not kept with the carcass until the head is delivered to the owner after taxidermy or, if not treated by a taxidermist, until delivered to a final destination.

(e) Final processing for a deer carcass may occur only at a final destination.

(f) This section does not prohibit a person before delivering a deer carcass to a final destination from removing and preparing a part of the deer if the removal and preparation occur immediately before the part is cooked or consumed.

Hey gang, I'm not going to get into the fray as to whether or not the citations were justified, etc. But there is a very IMPORTANT point that needs to be made more directly than it has so far, and that is if you look at the above quote from the regs, item 42.018 (c) should be paid careful attention to. Those tags on your licenses are specifically "carcass" tags, and if you "sever" the head from the rest of the animal (deer or turkey) the tag goes on the carcass NOT the head. When these new regs changes went into effect several years ago, the TPWD produced a hand out, had it on their web site, and even issued those warning citations for a couple years about improperly tagged game, and one of the deals is that the tag does on the carcass not the head.

A couple "well informed" TBH'ers whom I have a great deal of respect for have posted up comments about a "properly tagged head" being in the truck, etc. and that is in error. From all the comments posted on this thread, it appears that a good number of TBH'ers do not properly tag their game. What we do is split the Achilles heel tendon and attach the tag there on all the deer we kill. If you skin a short portion of it and tie it on good (we usually use a string from the top of a corn sack), when you skin the animal, the tag just stays in place. When you quarter it, the tag is still attached to the "carcass", that way you don't have to remember to move the tag when you cut the deer's head off. GW's in Val Verde and Kinney counties have been known to cite people for this violation.

...sorry for the long read, but thought it important and might keep someone out of trouble.

Leggy/Michael, sure sorry for your misfortune, but sure was a good write up and wel documented story.

Leggy, is that a TRV950 camera in that first photo of your stand set up? .. I have 2 of those and love them... great cameras.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:05 PM   #127
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That sucks!

Warnings are giving for license plates all the time...I think the camera and being cordual got you out of this ticket.

But IMO - I think you were screwed with the game warden for bringing out the camera.

Posting pictures and a story on a hunting website of a stop made by DPS and then game wardens being called with improperly logged/tagged and processed meat sets a presidence that others could reference a website in any legal matters.

So I think they had to give you a ticket. Regardless of how innocent it was.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:09 PM   #128
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Thanks for your POV, Flyby. My best friend in high school is a HiPo now and he tells me that what gets him the most is that he is lied to by almost everyone he deals with daily. I can see a big change in him over the years because of this. He used to always be, by far, a "benefit of the doubt" type fellow... now he's by far the "doubt before the benefit" type. Unfortunate, but I understand the reason.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:13 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
Just to make it even more confusing......deer harvested on a MLD permit don't get put in the log
True.

Use of license tags and deer log is not required for white-tailed deer lawfully taken under a MLD permit, Lamps permit, TPWD Special Drawn Public hunt permit, U.S. Forest Service antlerless permit or on Big Time Texas Hunt.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:17 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by SaltwaterSlick View Post
A couple "well informed" TBH'ers whom I have a great deal of respect for have posted up comments about a "properly tagged head" being in the truck, etc. and that is in error.
WOW, I missed this completely...I asked this specific question 2 years ago when my taxi asked me for a decent cape on my next cull. I got to looking at my meat in the cooler and ball of fur / face and horns (i only cape up to the base of the neck....face is way too hard). Called GW and said leave the tag w/ the body. Nice catch SWS.

Surprised this was not mentioned by leggy's warden's??
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:22 PM   #131
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I guess, the main thing I am taking away from this situation is to keep it "strictly business". No small talk, don't offer up any more information than is necessary.
Sux that it has to be that way, but the GW's have a job to do and we are just another source of income.
I will definitely make sure all my I's are dotted and T's crossed.
Good luck with the fines Leggy.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:30 PM   #132
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Sorry about the tickets.....

as Dale said, a positive attitude will likely result in reduced fine amounts and possible dismissal of at least one of the citations.

It is tough to keep up with all the laws and regulations....

I recommend carrying a lawyer with you at all times.

We just had the discussion about eating deer meat in camp -- you can eat whatever you debone. Technically, I guess you can't keep the leftovers and carry them home, but isn't that wanton waste?

Last edited by Atfulldraw; 10-05-2009 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:36 PM   #133
SOLID EAGLE
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Sorry for your troubles. I think we have all learned something from this.

Look on the bright side, maybe you'll make their website too, on the TPWD Game Warden Field Notes.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:36 PM   #134
Legdog
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Originally Posted by CharlesR View Post
Sorry to hear about that. Which one of the Game Wardens wrote the ticket. Just wondering because i had a run in with the smaller on on the right in the picture of both of them. He was very nice and understanding but the other was younger and not so understanding.We were stopped on the side of the road at the 281 cut off checking the load that we had. They drove up got out and started looked in the cooler, saw the head and never checked the tags or liceses. But did look through the truck and found a old beer can under the seat that was crush nothing in it was completely dry. Gave us a ticket for open container. Wasnt really looking for things to do with hunting regulations. Didnt leave a good feeeling with me toward them.
In the picture you reference, the guy on the left was the one who wrote me up. Both were nice and cordial. Just doing their job (repeated for claities' sake).

There seems to be a recurring thought on this thread... that my camera contributed to the eventual outcome. I know they are that way in Mexico but I always thought that was because of the corruption. Problem is, if having my camera out was wrong, you have to consider my point of view which was that I had nothing to hide. Honestly, the smiling trooper and easy flow of banter made me feel like I was merely putting the photographic icing on the cake on yet another outstanding opener in Eastland County. Unlike the previous example of the frequent speeders (who no doubt endanger many lives speeding), I had no clue I was about to be issued a citation for anything.

Funny thing, they did not menntion I had improperly tagged the deer by putting the tag in the doe's ear. Yet another confusing issue that I'm sure will come up again. Every doe I have ever taken (and I'm a serial doe bowhunter) has been tagged in the ear with a zip tie. My normal routine is to take the backstraps \ tenders to cook in my home and take the hams/shoulders/trimmings to the processor.

Live and learn. I'm enjoying the discussion.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:38 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Hillary View Post
Whoaaaaa.
This thread did not start with the intention of being negative, and I feel that it is far from it. I think others will agree with me that this is just a reminder that all hunters need to be aware of the "ticky-tacky" laws that are in place, regardless of how long they have been around.

It is easy to forget, and not be informed on all aspects of the law.

The men involved in this have stated NUMEROUS times that they take full responsibility, and are not blaming the LEOs are all. Go back about 10 posts and read it for yourself.

I guarantee if this would of happened to me, I would have ranted a lot more. And I would have NOT been as nice about the situation as Steven and Michael were on the scene. I think others will agree with me when I say this thread could be a bunch of bashing with nothing good coming out of it.

This thread is showing a surprising turn of events that occurred. The "atmosphere" of the incident looked as though everything was going to be handled with a simple reminder for someone that was obviously not trying to cause harm or break laws, (which happens A LOT from Game Wardens). And it turned the other way. Leaving 1 man with 2 tickets, but both men shocked.

This thread is NOT a rant, it is informative and a reminder to pay attention to the little things...
If this had happened to you, you broke the law....what good would come of that??? If you rant and rave enough, you should be let go?? A couple of things about this thread really dont sit well with me:

A thread that has the potential to and has several negative remarks about LEO/GW's should not have made it past page 1.

I am quite shocked that the leadership of TBH has allowed this thread to continue and has also made negative/questioning remarks about LEO/GW.

The longer this continues to go on, I see 2 things happening. There will probably be NO leniency if a court date is requested by the offender and GW's and LEO will probably make EVERY effort to stop vehicles with TBH stickers on them and people WILL be scrutinized.

Ignorance of the law is NO defense. I claim to be no expert, but its every hunters responsibility to know the laws and to abide by them.

I for one can not say enough thanks to the GW's and LEO's out there. They have the most thankless jobs on the planet and many are forced to be cut and dried due to the majority of people they run into on a daily basis.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:39 PM   #136
BrianL
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When it comes to GW, I don't think there are many "warnings" given out to anyone. THe first year of a change in regs they will, but after that it is a ticket. Intent has very little or probably nothing to do with it. Sorry it happened, and this reminded me to make sure it all gets filled out right. I still have some questions on processing and final destination though.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:43 PM   #137
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Sorry about the citations....congrats on the panhead Steven.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:59 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer View Post
If this had happened to you, you broke the law....what good would come of that??? If you rant and rave enough, you should be let go?? A couple of things about this thread really dont sit well with me:

A thread that has the potential to and has several negative remarks about LEO/GW's should not have made it past page 1.

I am quite shocked that the leadership of TBH has allowed this thread to continue and has also made negative/questioning remarks about LEO/GW.

The longer this continues to go on, I see 2 things happening. There will probably be NO leniency if a court date is requested by the offender and GW's and LEO will probably make EVERY effort to stop vehicles with TBH stickers on them and people WILL be scrutinized.

Ignorance of the law is NO defense. I claim to be no expert, but its every hunters responsibility to know the laws and to abide by them.

I for one can not say enough thanks to the GW's and LEO's out there. They have the most thankless jobs on the planet and many are forced to be cut and dried due to the majority of people they run into on a daily basis.
Lighten up a little.....if you have never been stopped by an overzealous GW then consider yourself lucky. No-one is giving all LEO's or GW's a bad name but certainly (as in every profession) there are individuals that are nit-picky and put a sour taste in peoples mouths. Legdog and Michael have a right to vent and so does every other person on here that has had a bad experience with a GW. Everyone on here appreciates LEO's and GW's and the thankless job they do...but for me that was a total waste of GW resources.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:09 PM   #139
Dale Moser
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I guess, the main thing I am taking away from this situation is to keep it "strictly business". No small talk, don't offer up any more information than is necessary.
It's un-fortunate that people feel this way. When what you should be taking away from this situation is to tag all your deer properly, fill out the log correctly, and don't process the deer past quartering until you get home.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:10 PM   #140
Hillary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer View Post
If this had happened to you, you broke the law....what good would come of that??? If you rant and rave enough, you should be let go?? A couple of things about this thread really dont sit well with me:

A thread that has the potential to and has several negative remarks about LEO/GW's should not have made it past page 1.

I am quite shocked that the leadership of TBH has allowed this thread to continue and has also made negative/questioning remarks about LEO/GW.

The longer this continues to go on, I see 2 things happening. There will probably be NO leniency if a court date is requested by the offender and GW's and LEO will probably make EVERY effort to stop vehicles with TBH stickers on them and people WILL be scrutinized.

Ignorance of the law is NO defense. I claim to be no expert, but its every hunters responsibility to know the laws and to abide by them.

I for one can not say enough thanks to the GW's and LEO's out there. They have the most thankless jobs on the planet and many are forced to be cut and dried due to the majority of people they run into on a daily basis.
Re-read what I wrote and you will see that I NEVER said if I ranted and raved I would be let go. I simply stated that I wouldn't of handled the situation like Steven and Michael did.

In fact, if you READ a little closer, you would have seen this shortly after I wrote what you originally quoted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillary View Post
I would of just been pretty upset.
It was a pretty shocking outcome of events, IMO.

It would of thrown me for a loop, I don't think it would have been intentional or me attacking a person, but I guess I would have been defensive....

Good point though, and this "negative thread" has brought it to my attention to second guess a lot of actions that I would have showed...
If you READ a little closer to what I originally wrote then you would see that I too, also, have the more respect for all LEOs

This thread also has the potential to have many more negative remarks that what has been said.
The issue I am stressing, and that I will say AGAIN, is that this is an unforunate experience that is being displayed on TBH, not to bash, but so that everyone reading it can learn from it and not make the mistake in the future.
That is what the "leadership" on this site is trying to put forth.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:17 PM   #141
Legdog
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The longer this continues to go on, I see 2 things happening. There will probably be NO leniency if a court date is requested by the offender and GW's and LEO will probably make EVERY effort to stop vehicles with TBH stickers on them and people WILL be scrutinized.
I will single handedly bring TBH to its collective knees!

BWAHAAHAHA!

OK seriously, I respect you opinion (even if I poked a little fun at it). As posted earlier, bowhunters already have a preferred status in the eyes of law enforcement because they are "doing it the hard way". I honestly don't think I'm putting people with TBH stickers on their back windshields in any potential legal peril. If they "throw the book at me" for discussing this and educating / reminding the several thousand who have read this thread so far, that would be a pretty big diservice. If anything, I feel like I'm helping people to not make the same mistake(s) and actually helping TP&W! Maybe they will have Carter Smith (TP&W President) send me a thank you card.

Of course, I reserve the right to be wrong. I already called, they will not have any info on my ticket until Friday.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:17 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by kramer View Post
A thread that has the potential to and has several negative remarks about LEO/GW's should not have made it past page 1.
Easy now. I disagree. Overall this thread has been very educational to most on here. I've learned some things myself. I see most posts on this thread as being supportive of GW's and LEO's. The few "negative" posts I see are simply those saying they're not going to be friendly and offer up any information required. That's fine in my book. You're not required to. We're used to criticism, insults, and threats to ourselves and families on a regular basis. I've seen nothing posted here that is even close to what I hear on the street at least weekly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer View Post
The longer this continues to go on, I see 2 things happening. There will probably be NO leniency if a court date is requested by the offender and GW's and LEO will probably make EVERY effort to stop vehicles with TBH stickers on them and people WILL be scrutinized.
Oh you can't be serious. Any LEO reading this would know that the more TBH people they stop the fewer tickets they'll write. This is the best group of hunters I've ever seen. Besides, I'd rather look for "Question Authority" bumper stickers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer View Post
Ignorance of the law is NO defense. I claim to be no expert, but its every hunters responsibility to know the laws and to abide by them.
I agree. I don't know all the laws- and I should. I'll accept responsibility if I screw up, as most on here have admitted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer View Post
I for one can not say enough thanks to the GW's and LEO's out there. They have the most thankless jobs on the planet and many are forced to be cut and dried due to the majority of people they run into on a daily basis.
Thank you.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:22 PM   #143
Charles
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GW's and LEO will probably make EVERY effort to stop vehicles with TBH stickers on them and people WILL be scrutinized.
Please!
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:29 PM   #144
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sorry for the double post

Last edited by gtsticker; 10-05-2009 at 01:44 PM. Reason: sorry double posted
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:30 PM   #145
Shane
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Maybe those that think Leggy got what was coming to him and would have written the tickets themselves should put their TBH stickers on the right side of the back windshield to alert statewide GWs that the hunter in this vehicle supports them.

Those that think Leggy should have gotten a warning can put their stickers on the left side of the back windshield and take their chances when they are pulled over by a GW.

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Old 10-05-2009, 01:34 PM   #146
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funny Shane... I guess sticker sales will now go up as almost everyone puts them on the driver side! Everyone is gonna go peel 'em off now!

Last edited by Legdog; 10-05-2009 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:36 PM   #147
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I say you run into the courtroom and yell and and speak just like Foghorn Leghorn! and then record itall!
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:39 PM   #148
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Well I bet if you called in on a guy that you thought did something wrong and he got a warning you would be complaining about that. The simple fact is you were wrong. You need to know the law and obey it. The GW did his job. Its not about if you are a poacher or not. Remember he does not know you from adam. He does not do it cause he did not like you. Thats his job. You can bash them all you want but the fact is it was your mistake.. It is time that people just pay up and take responsibility for their actions. The cost is 25-500 set by the judge so good luck on that. If you had to deal with what those guys do you might see it differently. Just a thought.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:39 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Dale Moser View Post
It's un-fortunate that people feel this way. When what you should be taking away from this situation is to tag all your deer properly, fill out the log correctly, and don't process the deer past quartering until you get home.


Most importantly check that your plates are on the trailer before you leave the ranch.

DJ
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:41 PM   #150
Shane
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Originally Posted by Legdog View Post
funny Shane... I guess sticker sales will now go up as almost everyone puts them on the driver side! Everyone is gonna go peel 'em off now!

Uh-oh. I sense that I have stumbled into the diabolical plan...... you guys will do ANYTHING to sell a few more stickers!
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