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Old 01-04-2019, 02:39 PM   #1
Bucksaw
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Default D2 knife question

I have a question for the knife making crowd. I was given a piece of D2 bar stock several years ago and finally got around to using it. Made myself a nice little EDC/skinner with it, and when it came to the heat treat, I got confused. I see a lot of information online, and even asked on a couple of knife forum and Facebook groups. Still confused because I keep getting contradictory information. Some say air quench, some say plate quench. Some say cyo treat, others say just temper once cool enough to touch. Some say temper at 400and still others say up to 900.

My usual process for hardening my recycled steels are to heat to 1500 and quench in canola oil, then temper to 425 for an hour for two cycles.

Can anyone tell me if my usual process will yeild a usable knife that I can use reliably and hold a decent edge, or is the cryogenic process absolutely necessary for edge retention.
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:57 PM   #2
argel55
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Heat treat in foil to 1870 for 30 minutes, plate cool, I cryo but some triple temper 400 degrees room temp between each one. Cryoing I do two 400 tempers.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:05 PM   #3
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So how does the extra temper take the place of a cryo treatment?
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Old 01-05-2019, 04:45 PM   #4
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You'd have to ask Dozier that question.
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Old 01-05-2019, 05:18 PM   #5
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You don't NEED to do cryo quench, I used to send my knives to have them heat treated and cryo treated before I got my oven. I honestly haven't noticed a difference in my knives by not doing it. Now I just heat treat and temper at 450 for 2 hours, let cool naturally to room temperature and repeat. Ready to go. I'm sure other's will possibly have differing opinions though.
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Old 01-05-2019, 06:15 PM   #6
175gr7.62
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Buy a Havalon. I havenít touched my $400 custom knives since. My D2 knives are just too hard to sharpen.


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Old 01-07-2019, 09:29 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puggy625 View Post
You don't NEED to do cryo quench, I used to send my knives to have them heat treated and cryo treated before I got my oven. I honestly haven't noticed a difference in my knives by not doing it. Now I just heat treat and temper at 450 for 2 hours, let cool naturally to room temperature and repeat. Ready to go. I'm sure other's will possibly have differing opinions though.
This is the kind of information I was looking for. I just want it to perform at least as well as my HC blades do. Thanks.
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Old 01-08-2019, 09:37 AM   #8
Jason Fry
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Default D2 knife question

I like 1850 for D2. Foil packet with a 15-20 min soak at temp. I plate quench. Provides faster cooling than air quench, which makes less retained austentite. I personally think Iíd cryo as the continuation of the quench. Instead of cryoing between tempers, I cryo right after the quench, then do my two tempers at 450. This minimizes the retained austentite. RA tends to be brittle, and is generally not as good as martensite for edge retention properties.

And when I say cryo, I use dry ice and kerosene, about -100 F. Some use liquid nitrogen, even colder.

Each of us has our own ideas about HT process. Thatís why you get different answers.


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Old 01-09-2019, 11:20 AM   #9
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Jason is correct about different methods.
I don't mess with D2 much but my quick and easy is to wrap loosely in foil with a small piece of paper inside. Foil has to be sealed airtight. Heat to non magnetic and hold for 15 minutes. Take out and cut end off of foil with scissors so the blade drops out point first into Parks 50 heated to 120 or so. Temper @ 425 three times. Works pretty good for short blades I make. I like to have pretty much all my grinding except edge bevel done before heat treating. D2 is a PITA to grind or sand after hardening. Makes 220 grit feel like worn out 800 or 1000 grit. CruforgeV is another one hard to work after heat treating. Like D2 it will also air harden on you real quick.
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muzzlebrake View Post
Jason is correct about different methods.
I don't mess with D2 much but my quick and easy is to wrap loosely in foil with a small piece of paper inside. Foil has to be sealed airtight. Heat to non magnetic and hold for 15 minutes. Take out and cut end off of foil with scissors so the blade drops out point first into Parks 50 heated to 120 or so. Temper @ 425 three times. Works pretty good for short blades I make. I like to have pretty much all my grinding except edge bevel done before heat treating. D2 is a PITA to grind or sand after hardening. Makes 220 grit feel like worn out 800 or 1000 grit. CruforgeV is another one hard to work after heat treating. Like D2 it will also air harden on you real quick.
^^^And this is why I don't mind paying for a nice knife. You guys go to great lengths to make them functional and purty. That is ALOT of work and trial and error to get it perfect. Thanks to all of you who craft functional works of art.
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Fry View Post
I like 1850 for D2. Foil packet with a 15-20 min soak at temp. I plate quench. Provides faster cooling than air quench, which makes less retained austentite. I personally think Iíd cryo as the continuation of the quench. Instead of cryoing between tempers, I cryo right after the quench, then do my two tempers at 450. This minimizes the retained austentite. RA tends to be brittle, and is generally not as good as martensite for edge retention properties.

And when I say cryo, I use dry ice and kerosene, about -100 F. Some use liquid nitrogen, even colder.

Each of us has our own ideas about HT process. Thatís why you get different answers.


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So, since the cryo process is the part I am going to have problems with sourcing the materials for, would placing it in the freezer after the quench do anything beneficial or just waste the time soent freezing it?
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:10 AM   #12
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Freezer wouldnít hurt anything, but dry ice would be better. I buy mine at the local united grocery store. Itís not that difficult to find.


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Old 01-13-2019, 04:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by argel55 View Post
You'd have to ask Dozier that question.
Hahahaha, and he ain't telling ANYBODY!!

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Old 01-16-2019, 09:01 AM   #14
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Gonna give her another try today. We'll see what happens.
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Old 01-16-2019, 12:57 PM   #15
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Oil quench went well. Developed a slight warp where I stamped my mark on it but I go most of it out. This stuff cools quicker than I thought so I was scared to try to get the rest out, but its mine so I’ll be OK. Also has some stubborn decarb scale that didnt want to come off with the wire wheel. I bet the belt grinder can handle it though. Went in for the first temper and the oven is happily ticking away. Will update when finished.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:05 AM   #16
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Tempered very well. Was even able to get the last little bit of warp out after the first temper cycle. There is some very stubborn decard on the face of the bevel that I cant get off with the wire wheel, but its in a unique pattern that resembles a hamon or something. I think it looks cool and was wondering if there would be any harm in leaving it there.
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Last edited by Bucksaw; 01-17-2019 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 01-17-2019, 11:35 AM   #17
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Elbow grease, lots and lots of it and wet/dry sandpaper will get that off

I use the scotch brite 3M surface conditioning belts on my 2x72. Makes quick work of cleaning up decarb. These belts ain't cheap but last a long long time.
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Old 01-17-2019, 11:41 AM   #18
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I also use one of these little jewels from Harbor freight. https://www.harborfreight.com/53-amp...der-62863.html
I have a place that I can get 1/2" scotchbrite surface conditioning belts for it. Works wonders on both wood and metal to get to hard to reach areas.
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Old 01-17-2019, 11:44 AM   #19
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Oh, I know I can get it off. I just wanna know if its gonna do anything to the lifespan of the steel to leave it on there.
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Old 01-17-2019, 12:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucksaw View Post
Oh, I know I can get it off. I just wanna know if its gonna do anything to the lifespan of the steel to leave it on there.
Maybe in 4 or 5 lifetimes
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Old 01-17-2019, 02:33 PM   #21
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Just wanted to make sure there wasnt some crazy chemistry going on under that scale that would cause corrosion or something.
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