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Old 12-09-2018, 02:51 PM   #1
WBA2000
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Default AR rules?

Do you think if it was lowered from 13 to 12 it would make a difference? What about using outside spread of main beams? Would less people complain?
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Old 12-09-2018, 02:55 PM   #2
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Folks Will complain any way. We now have some old very tall...skinny heads here. AR was at 1 time to be a 5 year deal.
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Old 12-09-2018, 03:05 PM   #3
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When the AR program was first rolled out as a trial there was verbage that said “or mature deer” The problem was when people check in bucks that did not meet the AR and they called them mature deer. Most were 2 year olds. So when they implemented the program they did away with this verbiage. I have had to pass up some old buck that did not meet the law. But I think it has helped a lot of young buck live another year. I understand both sides when I was young my instructions from my dad when hunting was if it’s legal shoot it.

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Old 12-09-2018, 03:39 PM   #4
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I watched a small young buck a few weeks ago and have a question about measuring spread. This buck was for sure inside his ears between the main beams. Maybe 12, But his G2s angled out and were definitely outside his ears.

Legal or not?


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Old 12-09-2018, 03:42 PM   #5
kruppa24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salth2o View Post
I watched a small young buck a few weeks ago and have a question about measuring spread. This buck was for sure inside his ears between the main beams. Maybe 12, But his G2s angled out and were definitely outside his ears.

Legal or not?


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Not, has to be between main beams.
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-roy66 View Post
When the AR program was first rolled out as a trial there was verbage that said or mature deer The problem was when people check in bucks that did not meet the AR and they called them mature deer. Most were 2 year olds. So when they implemented the program they did away with this verbiage. I have had to pass up some old buck that did not meet the law. But I think it has helped a lot of young buck live another year. I understand both sides when I was young my instructions from my dad when hunting was if its legal shoot it.
Rule never said "or mature deer".
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:15 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Top Of Texas View Post
Rule never said "or mature deer".
The pilot program that preceded the implementation did. Mature deer judgement process was misused. So TPWD did away with the exception verbiage-
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:22 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by WBA2000 View Post
Do you think if it was lowered from 13 to 12 it would make a difference? What about using outside spread of main beams? Would less people complain?
13" was established because it would protect a large portion of 1-2 yr old deer, average 3 yr old deer, and less than 10% of mature deer. What made 13 "doable" was that 13 was the average ear-tip spread on bucks from coastal prairie and post oaks regions. So hunter didn't have to be able to spot 13" spread, merely determine if inside beam spread was to ear tips. Simple, easy to distinguish, and effective at protecting young bucks.

There's no regulation that will keep all groups content. Given the majority of hunters approve and the increase in buck age structure, thereby antler quality, best to just plan on having it the rest of your life.
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:23 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by T-roy66 View Post
The pilot program that preceded the implementation did. Mature deer judgement process was misused. So TPWD did away with the exception verbiage-
No, sir. That's incorrect.
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:31 PM   #10
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If you make a mistake, that's what hammers are for! Just saying!!!!!
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Old 12-09-2018, 06:34 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Flint knapper View Post
If you make a mistake, that's what hammers are for! Just saying!!!!!

Shot placement for questionable bucks! For the record this is on a friends MLD ranch so he is legal if they want to shoot him.

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Old 12-11-2018, 08:29 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Of Texas View Post
13" was established because it would protect a large portion of 1-2 yr old deer, average 3 yr old deer, and less than 10% of mature deer. What made 13 "doable" was that 13 was the average ear-tip spread on bucks from coastal prairie and post oaks regions. So hunter didn't have to be able to spot 13" spread, merely determine if inside beam spread was to ear tips. Simple, easy to distinguish, and effective at protecting young bucks.

There's no regulation that will keep all groups content. Given the majority of hunters approve and the increase in buck age structure, thereby antler quality, best to just plan on having it the rest of your life.
True! Even a program that has a "4pt on a side rule", still protects a mature 6 pt. Missouri and Pennsylvania have this rule I believe. It definetly has helped the Penn bucks. Any program that allows them to get above 3yrs is gonna be a plus.

Im glad that Tx did this it has increased the amount of mature bucks. If you have a problem with mature narrow racked bucks, start a MLD program that isn't hand cuffed by the 13".
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Old 12-11-2018, 09:51 AM   #13
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If people are unable to find a buck that is 13" in an AR county, they probably wouldn't see a buck at all if it wasn't for AR.
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Old 12-11-2018, 09:55 AM   #14
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I wish the rule didn't apply to kids, but then the adults would have the kids tag their deer.
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:12 AM   #15
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Back home in Tennessee only certain WMA's have antler restrictions. They are generally 3 or 4 points minimum on one side. Seeing how us hillbillies cannot measure through a scope or determine if antlers are outside of ears, they make it easy and we just have to count to 3.
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:24 AM   #16
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If people are unable to find a buck that is 13" in an AR county, they probably wouldn't see a buck at all if it wasn't for AR.
Exactly. trigger happy people
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:53 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by stinkbelly View Post
I wish the rule didn't apply to kids, but then the adults would have the kids tag their deer.
Why? I see that as the main group of shooters taking young bucks. For some reason adults think young kids should shoot young bucks. If they trust the kid to shoot a 2yr old 6 or 8 point they should let them shoot the the mature buck they have saved for themselves instead. Most fear they will make a bad shot and loose a trophy how's that same fiat fair to a young deer?

When kids start to hunt it's time for dad or papa to put their tags aside to start guiding for them and they can just shoot whatever is left. JMO

Last edited by justintyme8303; 12-11-2018 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 12-11-2018, 11:00 AM   #18
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Louisiana is a state that needs to start this. I work with several La boys and they want to see it happen.

They know if a youngster gets off their reservation, he is dead.
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Old 12-11-2018, 11:14 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by justintyme8303 View Post
Why? I see that as the main group of shooters taking young bucks. For some reason adults think young kids should shoot young bucks. If they trust the kid to shoot a 2yr old 6 or 8 point they should let them shoot the the mature buck they have saved for themselves instead. Most fear they will make a bad shot and loose a trophy how's that same fiat fair to a young deer?

When kids start to hunt it's time for dad or papa to put their tags aside to start guiding for them and they can just shoot whatever is left. JMO

I think a beginner should be able to shoot anything to get them hooked.
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Old 12-11-2018, 11:30 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by stinkbelly View Post
I wish the rule didn't apply to kids, but then the adults would have the kids tag their deer.
100% wish kids under (X) age could kill what ever they wanted. I understand to make a kid wait and earn a big buck, but east Texas is hard hunting and can be boring starting a kid off that way until they get hooked.

Reason why I hunt out West now...
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:27 PM   #21
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I personally like the 13" rule but I think GW should use common sense.. If a deer is close and its the first time dealing w that hunter then let it go.. As for kids I like starting them off with Does and Spikes.. Their excitement is the same as if they shot the deer of a lifetime.. Then let them start big buck hunting.. I have hunted a lot with my niece this year and it has been a fun experience. We had a few mishaps with the bow but she did get it done rifle hunting w my wife..
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Old 12-11-2018, 03:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckman49 View Post
100% wish kids under (X) age could kill what ever they wanted. I understand to make a kid wait and earn a big buck, but east Texas is hard hunting and can be boring starting a kid off that way until they get hooked.

Reason why I hunt out West now...

They are not waiting to earn a big buck they are learning the rules and being taught management to grow big bucks. Also learning its not all about trophy hunting and any legal deer doe or buck is a trophy. Teaching them any day in the field is a win. Have them glass around and birdwatch learning different birds make it a game. My son spotted a buck that way in the brush when he was watching two cardinals go at it.

I just think there is just way more to teach them about hunting than the kill shot. Get them hooked on the outdoors just spending time with dad and all this things they can do out there. The campfires and joking around and cutting up got me hooked before I ever hunted.

I just see way too many pics on FB of young kids with young bucks and everyone all happy about it. Teaching them bad management.
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Old 12-11-2018, 04:05 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justintyme8303 View Post
They are not waiting to earn a big buck they are learning the rules and being taught management to grow big bucks. Also learning its not all about trophy hunting and any legal deer doe or buck is a trophy. Teaching them any day in the field is a win. Have them glass around and birdwatch learning different birds make it a game. My son spotted a buck that way in the brush when he was watching two cardinals go at it.

I just think there is just way more to teach them about hunting than the kill shot. Get them hooked on the outdoors just spending time with dad and all this things they can do out there. The campfires and joking around and cutting up got me hooked before I ever hunted.

I just see way too many pics on FB of young kids with young bucks and everyone all happy about it. Teaching them bad management.
I agree for the most part. Doesn't bother me if a kid kills a young deer that is legal. But your right, shooting a buck is just a small part of hunting..camp life, camp fire, food, hunting stories, driving through the pasture, trail cameras, shooting squirrels, watching nature etc. That is what it is all about.
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Old 12-11-2018, 04:48 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkbelly View Post
I think a beginner should be able to shoot anything to get them hooked.
I would rather them see bucks the can't shoot and get the adrenaline flowing rather than see no bucks at all and lose interest. Without the AR I saw a 10th of the buck #'s I see now.
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Old 12-15-2018, 07:55 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkbelly View Post
I think a beginner should be able to shoot anything to get them hooked.
Agreed as well! My kids got bored, waiting ... now they hardly want to go at all.
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Old 12-15-2018, 08:05 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justintyme8303 View Post
They are not waiting to earn a big buck they are learning the rules and being taught management to grow big bucks. Also learning its not all about trophy hunting and any legal deer doe or buck is a trophy. Teaching them any day in the field is a win. Have them glass around and birdwatch learning different birds make it a game. My son spotted a buck that way in the brush when he was watching two cardinals go at it.

I just think there is just way more to teach them about hunting than the kill shot. Get them hooked on the outdoors just spending time with dad and all this things they can do out there. The campfires and joking around and cutting up got me hooked before I ever hunted.

I just see way too many pics on FB of young kids with young bucks and everyone all happy about it. Teaching them bad management.

Bad management? They couldn't care less about management when their time afield is so limited with school and all. They just want to come home with something, not sit in the weather for 2 or 3 days and every deer they see is unshootable, that still frustrates me at times but I'm an adult and I partly understand the AR but good cow, at least let their first deer be anything without spots. PFFFTT, ... management, that comes later when they're more patient. We're not all freakin' biologists here.
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Old 12-15-2018, 08:15 PM   #27
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If kids are bored sitting around on the right deer you should try squirrel, duck, or dove hunting with them. Lots of fun action can be had small game hunting. There is more than deer hunting.
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:21 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemylegacy View Post
Louisiana is a state that needs to start this. I work with several La boys and they want to see it happen.

They know if a youngster gets off their reservation, he is dead.
x1000
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:28 AM   #29
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Of the 4 properties I hunt, one is an AR county and it by far has the biggest and oldest deer.
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Old 12-19-2018, 01:47 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayouboy View Post
If kids are bored sitting around on the right deer you should try squirrel, duck, or dove hunting with them. Lots of fun action can be had small game hunting. There is more than deer hunting.
Ditto
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Old 12-19-2018, 02:13 PM   #31
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Back in PA they had a 3pt or 4pt per side rule depending on your county. Guys still complain and whine against it. Some want no rule, some want a spread rule instead. But junior (under 16), seniors, disabled, and active military can shoot anything with antlers 3" or longer.

I haven't had the chance to hunt in the two years I have lived here in TX because my health has been awful the whole time. But I am fine with the 13" rule.
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Old 12-22-2018, 09:18 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by stinkbelly View Post
I wish the rule didn't apply to kids, but then the adults would have the kids tag their deer.
Give kids a license with one tag then?
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Old 12-26-2018, 11:01 AM   #33
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There will be complainers no matter what. Most are the ones calling themselves "meat" hunters only to pass many does to shoot a 2 year old buck.
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Old 12-26-2018, 11:35 AM   #34
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The problem with that is that in a lot of AR counties does are not legal.
I see we may be getting 4 doe days in Washington County, we need it.
My property is covered up with does. We have been a AR county for some time and at least where I am, every once in a while you hear of someone getting a big one but, we almost never see a legal buck.
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Old 12-26-2018, 02:03 PM   #35
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Give kids a license with one tag then?
What good would that do?
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Old 12-29-2018, 12:44 AM   #36
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There will be complainers no matter what. Most are the ones calling themselves "meat" hunters only to pass many does to shoot a 2 year old buck.
HA! Yep, that cracks me up too. That's the same guy that says, "Can't eat them horns".
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Old 01-04-2019, 12:38 AM   #37
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We can only shoot does until Thanksgiving. I work shift work so my kids missed the first 2 weeks of season.. I would rather kill does myself than a small buck. But I would like to be able to kill does the entire season. It's nothing to see 8 to 10 does to 1 buck. Ar rules have helped. But I have seen several deer that were well over 200 lbs with tall narrow racks.. they would probably be barely legal if a person wanted to risk it.

Not everyone hunts horns and believes every deer needs to be 7 years old to shoot just like a lot of people dont give a crap about catching 30 inch trout..theres a place for both kinds of people and neither are wrong.
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