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Old 05-16-2019, 02:32 PM   #101
BrandonA
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Originally Posted by txbonecollector View Post
Notes I saw posted from GBRA meeting. (not mine - Long post...)

The video that was posted of the meeting the GBRA had with Guadalupe County Commissioners Court last month is very enlightening. For those that want the cliffnotes version, here's what I believe answers some of the biggest questions. But, someone else who listened to the whole thing like it I did, please feel free to set me straight if I misunderstood:

1 - How did they not see this coming? > They were completely well aware that the dams were old and in need of being replaced. In fact, they had already been working on obtaining engineering reports/estimates to replace the entire chain of dams.

2 - What exactly happened? > [This was not addressed as Dunlap obviously hadn't failed at the time of the meeting, but here's a summation of a likely culprit] The inside of the dams look like a skeleton made of steel. Most likely, some of the skeleton gave way which weakened the structure. Once the right piece(s) of the skeleton were compromised the structure could no longer hold its shape/placement.

3 - What would it cost to fix? > The engineering reports they've been gathering regarding replacing the entire chain of dams is not yet complete but has already gone from 5 - 15 (ish) million to potentially, 20+ million per dam. Obviously, each dam will cost a little different so take that into consideration as well.

4 - Why don't they have the money to fix it? > The GBRA does not generate enough income to cover their costs, plus ongoing maintenance, and then also set aside money for a rainy day. The money they do obtain after paying for all of their costs is still not enough to make payments on a loan the size of what would be required to replace the dams. Think of it this way, even if they were able to somehow set aside 1 million dollars per year, it would take 20 years of those savings just to (potentially) replace one dam.

5 - Why don't they use money the dams generate in providing electricity? > The GBRA has not profited from the sale of electricity since 2011 (estimated). The cost of repairs and maintenance to the dams and associated energy systems, plus personnel, has been greater than the income from the sale of electricity. They earn much more on the sale of water, but it's still not enough to pay for dam replacements.

6 - In a perfect world, how long would it take to replace the dam at Dunlap with a modern design? > If they had the funding, and the weather cooperated, a minimum of 26 months.

7 - What about flood control? > The GBRA does not consider the dams below Canyon Lake to be flood control dams due to liability purposes. Do they help during a flood? Absolutely. But, that's not the purpose that the GBRA can outwardly advertise.

Summary - The GBRA is looking for an entity to partner with to help tackle the issue of replacing the entire chain of dams. They do not have the revenue to afford this on their own and they have determined that there is no state/fed assistance available at this time.

Wouldn't surprise me if the LCRA doesn't take over or partner
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:40 PM   #102
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How can they expect someone to partner with them if there is no money to be made?
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:58 PM   #103
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If anyoneís looking for a nice home in New Braunfels, mines about to hit the market. Custom home on .54 acres. ~2700 sq ft.

NOT on the lake but does have lake/river access

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Old 05-16-2019, 03:09 PM   #104
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This is terrible,
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:10 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txbonecollector View Post
Notes I saw posted from GBRA meeting. (not mine - Long post...)

The video that was posted of the meeting the GBRA had with Guadalupe County Commissioners Court last month is very enlightening. For those that want the cliffnotes version, here's what I believe answers some of the biggest questions. But, someone else who listened to the whole thing like it I did, please feel free to set me straight if I misunderstood:

1 - How did they not see this coming? > They were completely well aware that the dams were old and in need of being replaced. In fact, they had already been working on obtaining engineering reports/estimates to replace the entire chain of dams.

2 - What exactly happened? > [This was not addressed as Dunlap obviously hadn't failed at the time of the meeting, but here's a summation of a likely culprit] The inside of the dams look like a skeleton made of steel. Most likely, some of the skeleton gave way which weakened the structure. Once the right piece(s) of the skeleton were compromised the structure could no longer hold its shape/placement.

3 - What would it cost to fix? > The engineering reports they've been gathering regarding replacing the entire chain of dams is not yet complete but has already gone from 5 - 15 (ish) million to potentially, 20+ million per dam. Obviously, each dam will cost a little different so take that into consideration as well.

4 - Why don't they have the money to fix it? > The GBRA does not generate enough income to cover their costs, plus ongoing maintenance, and then also set aside money for a rainy day. The money they do obtain after paying for all of their costs is still not enough to make payments on a loan the size of what would be required to replace the dams. Think of it this way, even if they were able to somehow set aside 1 million dollars per year, it would take 20 years of those savings just to (potentially) replace one dam.

5 - Why don't they use money the dams generate in providing electricity? > The GBRA has not profited from the sale of electricity since 2011 (estimated). The cost of repairs and maintenance to the dams and associated energy systems, plus personnel, has been greater than the income from the sale of electricity. They earn much more on the sale of water, but it's still not enough to pay for dam replacements.

6 - In a perfect world, how long would it take to replace the dam at Dunlap with a modern design? > If they had the funding, and the weather cooperated, a minimum of 26 months.

7 - What about flood control? > The GBRA does not consider the dams below Canyon Lake to be flood control dams due to liability purposes. Do they help during a flood? Absolutely. But, that's not the purpose that the GBRA can outwardly advertise.

Summary - The GBRA is looking for an entity to partner with to help tackle the issue of replacing the entire chain of dams. They do not have the revenue to afford this on their own and they have determined that there is no state/fed assistance available at this time.
About what I expected. Sad for many of those who own homes on that lake. My guess is there will be no more lake dunlap.
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:22 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Take Dead Aim View Post
About what I expected. Sad for many of those who own homes on that lake. My guess is there will be no more lake dunlap.
Yeah, if the lake is not important for flood control or as a water supply I doubt
they will appropriate the money. Recreation is just a by-product of those two purposes.
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:54 PM   #107
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A fixed earthen/concrete spillway could be built fairly cheaply, as opposed to gates.
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:30 PM   #108
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Wouldn't surprise me if the LCRA doesn't take over or partner
When Joe Beal was still there , they would have been all over this deal. In 2010 after he left, they voted to stop doing these types of projects and just focus on their core responsibilities, and divested themselves from the utilities they had aquired over the 90s and 2000s. It will be interesting to see if they partner up.

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Old 05-16-2019, 04:33 PM   #109
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On the other hand, it could be a great time to buy while values are down..
Absolutely. It'll be a buyer's market until they get close to getting the dam repaired.
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:35 PM   #110
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If anyoneís looking for a nice home in New Braunfels, mines about to hit the market. Custom home on .54 acres. ~2700 sq ft.

NOT on the lake but does have lake/river access

Send it to me.
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:44 PM   #111
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For a second I thought about this dam-fixing business. Seems like there would be lot of work out there and you could possibly make some good money. However think of the down-the-road liability if one of your repair jobs fails.
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Old 05-16-2019, 05:01 PM   #112
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Send it to me.


Sent you a pm


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Old 05-16-2019, 05:04 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Dale Moser View Post
A fixed earthen/concrete spillway could be built fairly cheaply, as opposed to gates.

My guess is it's a 5M to 8M job on the low end. That is not including the engineering etc.
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Old 05-16-2019, 06:21 PM   #114
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the post about the commissioner's court meeting said "last month" but it was April last year. Here's the link, but you need to go to about the 29-min point to hear the GBRA guys. Bottom line--they don't even know what they don't know.
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:03 PM   #115
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A buddy of mine that has a house on the lake sent me this:

GBRA has 11 days to get approval for $35 million from TX Legislature before the session closes. If not approved, it’s a 2-year wait for funding because TX Legislature meets only every 2 years. If it gets approved, it is at least a 4-year building project.

Not sure of his source, but if he is right, it’s a 4 to 6 year wait.
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:08 PM   #116
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It makes sense for the county to pitch in just to not lose the tax revenue long term.
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:12 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 220swift View Post
A buddy of mine that has a house on the lake sent me this:

GBRA has 11 days to get approval for $35 million from TX Legislature before the session closes. If not approved, itís a 2-year wait for funding because TX Legislature meets only every 2 years. If it gets approved, it is at least a 4-year building project.

Not sure of his source, but if he is right, itís a 4 to 6 year wait.
That is not happening barring Greg Abbott owning a house on that lake.
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:15 PM   #118
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It makes sense for the county to pitch in just to not lose the tax revenue long term.
Not really. They will still tax it as riverfront property. On top of that there are not that many houses on that lake. It's a bad situation for those owning property. I see lawsuits coming against the entities at fault. They will not rebuild that lake.
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:17 PM   #119
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With average flow, how wide will the river be through the old lake bed?
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:33 PM   #120
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With average flow, how wide will the river be through the old lake bed?
Way up river it isnít bad. Down by the dam, itís pretty bad.
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:14 PM   #121
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I went and looked at it today. The water by Schumann’s beach is about 100 yards wide versus the 400+ yards wide before the dam failure. The flow was really good. Looks like the original river channel is where the water is. Same down by the dam. I could see where after the lake bed dries out this could be a good 7 mile float trip. Folks need to rebuild/engineer there waterfront but it could still be usable recreational property until the dam is fixed.
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:18 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by jerp View Post
With average flow, how wide will the river be through the old lake bed?

This is at the dam

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Old 05-16-2019, 09:59 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Take Dead Aim View Post
Not really. They will still tax it as riverfront property. On top of that there are not that many houses on that lake. It's a bad situation for those owning property. I see lawsuits coming against the entities at fault. They will not rebuild that lake.
Not the way it works. Theyíre goi g to get sued and lose if they try that.
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:20 PM   #124
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Not the way it works. They’re goi g to get sued and lose if they try that.
Why would it not work that way? I am not saying they will be taxed the same I'm just saying they will still be assessed for being riverfront as they will now have river front property. Doesn't matter what they try, there are not enough rooftops to make a difference tax wise. The dam cost too much to fix. They dont give discounts on lake travis or any other lake that drops significantly during droughts.
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:35 PM   #125
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Hate to hear... I was just there for the first time recently and thought about looking for a place...reminded me of a redneck lake Austin ...I wonder if most the big fish went down river or hunkered down


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Old 05-16-2019, 10:58 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by hgiles View Post
If anyoneís looking for a nice home in New Braunfels, mines about to hit the market. Custom home on .54 acres. ~2700 sq ft.

NOT on the lake but does have lake/river access

Are you really?
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:56 PM   #127
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One of my buddies took some drone footage of it. Itís pretty bad.....

https://youtu.be/0jWFcHCvlvw


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Old 05-17-2019, 05:45 AM   #128
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Are you really?


Yup. We had planned on selling anyway, was just waiting for school to get out


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Old 05-17-2019, 09:23 AM   #129
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Yup. We had planned on selling anyway, was just waiting for school to get out


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Dang, you have a nice place there bud. Well I guess no better time than now for sure. GLWS
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:34 AM   #130
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Seguin paper this morning had a headline that said "$15-$35 million" to repair it
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:06 PM   #131
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More drone footage:

It will be interesting to see over the next few years how nature reclaims all the seemingly sterile mud flats that were once lake bed. My guess is it will be completely overgrown by this time next year. The river channel will probably change as well
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:51 PM   #132
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On the tax issue, when we were flooded on Placid in ‘98, our assessed value went down based on the flood damage to the house , loss of dock and boathouse, etc. Got a 1-yr cut in taxes but as soon as repairs were made, went right back up the next year.
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Old 05-17-2019, 01:13 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerp View Post
More drone footage:
Lake Dunlap Dam ***FAILURE*** Aftermath (Aerial View) - YouTube

It will be interesting to see over the next few years how nature reclaims all the seemingly sterile mud flats that were once lake bed. My guess is it will be completely overgrown by this time next year. The river channel will probably change as well
Look up photos of Lake Wood in Gonzales, TX where they experienced the same dam/gate failure 3YRS ago... Trees, Weeds, Grass all now fill the area where we once enjoyed skiing, fishing and boating. This is GBRA also... No money, No fix, no worries... Feel bad for the lake front property owners.
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Old 05-17-2019, 02:54 PM   #134
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Two failed dams controlled by the same river authority? No money or commitment to fix them? I sure would be nervous if I had a home on any other lakes in this system. Might just be time to sell if I did.

This is an awful situation for those people.
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Old 05-17-2019, 07:16 PM   #135
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Two failed dams controlled by the same river authority? No money or commitment to fix them? I sure would be nervous if I had a home on any other lakes in this system. Might just be time to sell if I did.

This is an awful situation for those people.
A lot of the dams in this country are old and in need of repairs. Those dams were cheaper to build back then than they would be today. A lot of smaller old dams are being removed as it is less expensive than trying to maintain or repair them.
Definitely a bad deal for the folks with lake property
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Old 05-17-2019, 07:25 PM   #136
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It will become an ATV park when it dries out a bit.
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:54 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by TildenHunter View Post
Video of the dam bursting!

https://www.facebook.com/GBRAofTexas...ref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARCszJ6RsXCeSdp7RXxYvGmQMpNswEhr0moPMIh1M96yDg _XfC-Zbs1fSjp5-w7k1sY3daszg075sWijIEcwNG44BF3H5ytVGe-LyC-YlhqOwYQH-AyCcwq6dMUc0piWWtlL6FFt3viLyNdwkZ39jYMCCEbc9xxp8Yg kAe89i5-C0CyRnhrvcGvWulGJxufaeyjbnslYZ922S5_iJj_j8B6zjqYGc YAAtit8_3NwMhCMJ52kX6E5HhQCQ-qkonhr5WdeT2vcIulrnYTjTNEEHzc2N--o7k-QAyR4rjgsRfc6AB08v1nop9yn1OcbQ0ONLSBrRrehNRrNDjqec JGMia2jo42ZEWGc
I lived on the lake for 20 years. Canít begin to count the number of times Iíve fished right up against the dam. Thought about this happening ever time I I casted.
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Old 05-17-2019, 10:59 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by txbonecollector View Post
Look up photos of Lake Wood in Gonzales, TX where they experienced the same dam/gate failure 3YRS ago... Trees, Weeds, Grass all now fill the area where we once enjoyed skiing, fishing and boating. This is GBRA also... No money, No fix, no worries... Feel bad for the lake front property owners.


Weíll I guess on the bright side their lots double in size...


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Old 05-17-2019, 11:11 PM   #139
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Why would it not work that way? I am not saying they will be taxed the same I'm just saying they will still be assessed for being riverfront as they will now have river front property. Doesn't matter what they try, there are not enough rooftops to make a difference tax wise. The dam cost too much to fix. They dont give discounts on lake travis or any other lake that drops significantly during droughts.
Not sure what your considering ď not to many roof topsĒ, but Dunlap is solid homes on both sides of lake from IH 35 all the way to the dam. Itís 7 miles between the dam and IH 35. Countless 1,000,000 $ plus homes.
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Old 05-18-2019, 06:58 AM   #140
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Not sure what your considering ď not to many roof topsĒ, but Dunlap is solid homes on both sides of lake from IH 35 all the way to the dam. Itís 7 miles between the dam and IH 35. Countless 1,000,000 $ plus homes.
In the big picture the tax cuts will be small and wont add up to much compared to what it will cost to build new dam. The more I have learned about the situation the more I stick by it not getting repaired in the near future(5 to 10 years).
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:23 AM   #141
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Haven't seen it discussed here so.... Do the property owners gain the property rights down to the river? Extra acreage?
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:08 AM   #142
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Haven't seen it discussed here so.... Do the property owners gain the property rights down to the river? Extra acreage?


Thatís what I was thinking I donít see why they wouldnít unless something to do with going past the break/retaining wall?


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Old 05-18-2019, 10:02 AM   #143
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if there is no longer a purpose of a lake being there for anything other than property value and recreation then it'll never be rebuilt. unless the property owners pool their money to fund the project.
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Old 05-18-2019, 10:53 AM   #144
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Was the hydro plant still producing power before the collapse?
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Old 05-18-2019, 10:56 AM   #145
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Now is the time to take lots of pictures and look for irregular fish holding features on the exposed bottom!
You right about that

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Old 05-18-2019, 03:56 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Take Dead Aim View Post
In the big picture the tax cuts will be small and wont add up to much compared to what it will cost to build new dam. The more I have learned about the situation the more I stick by it not getting repaired in the near future(5 to 10 years).
Oh...I thought your position was they would never repair the dam. I hope for property owners sake your wrong. My guess is itís fixed in the next 3 to 5 years.
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:28 PM   #147
texasdeerhunter
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In that part of Texas, being so close to the booming population growth of Central Texas, I can’t imagine them not fixing it, at some point. You can never have too much water stored away. 2011 wasn’t that long ago, surely long term planners haven’t forgotten about that already
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:11 PM   #148
Zackme96
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Originally Posted by HOOKNBULLET2 View Post
I went and looked at it today. The water by Schumannís beach is about 100 yards wide versus the 400+ yards wide before the dam failure. The flow was really good. Looks like the original river channel is where the water is. Same down by the dam. I could see where after the lake bed dries out this could be a good 7 mile float trip. Folks need to rebuild/engineer there waterfront but it could still be usable recreational property until the dam is fixed.
One thing to keep in mind is Canyon Lake is above pool, and they are releasing a lot of water. Right now they are releasing 1700+ cfs. Under normal conditions, the release is around 100-200cfs. So things will probably look a lot different once Canyon gets back down to normal.
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Old 05-18-2019, 10:19 PM   #149
Take Dead Aim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webb09 View Post
Oh...I thought your position was they would never repair the dam. I hope for property owners sake your wrong. My guess is itís fixed in the next 3 to 5 years.
I dont think it will be repaired. If it is it will be atleast 10 year before its is done.
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Old 05-19-2019, 10:31 AM   #150
ttaxidermy
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Absolutley horrible.. This will never be fixed UNLESS some politicians get involved.. Politics and money go hand in hand.. I sure hope some heavy hitters have Lake Dunlap Property and their kids or grand kids are screaming right now.. If not then it's over..

These old dams breaking have me even more concerned about the OLD BIG dams in this state..
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