Lease Problems

[TexEnv]

Got on a new place this year 300 or so acres, super low pressure with a commercial/corporate farm operation bordering three sides that does not allow hunting, and the property on the 4th side is not hunted. So, pretty low pressure and ample food supply. Cost was relatively low. I've got 4 mature (4-5 year old) 130+ inch deer on camera preseason and sporadically throughout the season so far. I only hunt when the wind is in my favor etc to try to minimize disturbance and maximize my odds at getting a mature deer.

The lease is a family sort of deal, my BIL leases the land for hay, then subleases the hunting. I am on it with the BIL's father. Trouble starts with the guy setting up blinds/feeders/cameras during hunting hours (often when I'm in the blind). They drive in close to their spot and park about 600 yards from my spot, hunt not matter what wind, all around sloppy tactics IMO. But, it get better: the original deal was that the father and his daughter could hunt and that was it, but his wife has shot a young 2-3 year old buck, and daughter (20 years old) has shot a second 2-3 year old buck. I'm all for people being out hunting, but these folks aren't new deer hunters. Common courtesy would be to avoid activity during times of peak activity especially when someone else is hunting. That and stick to the agreement. My goal is to shoot mature deer and try to improve the quality of the deer on the place since the area is virtually unhunted. My concern is that if BIL's dad takes a third young deer off the place, then that's 3 deer that don't make it to their prime in the years to come. To me, this coupled with sloppy tactics over the coming years will eventually degrade the potential of the property. I've approached the BIL about it and he agrees that these things shouldn't be happening but it put him in a bad spot to say something to his dad. I'm thinking I need to wash my hands of the place after this year.

My bother and I have talked over and over on plans for next year. Lease prices near us are over $1,500 easily for papermill land, a good place with oak bottoms with go for over $2k and approach $3k. With the rising price of leases over the past few years we've thought about going public but that comes with issues as well.

What are your thoughts? Are middle class folks being priced out of leases? Would you just deal with the poor management and sloppy tactics and hope for the best? What is a realistic expectation for a lease as far as rules/management and what would you pay for your expectations?

[rolylane6]

If it's just you and the FIL hunting the place, I would have a polite ftf talk with the guy and see where it goes. Good places are hard to find. It's worth trying to work it out.

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[rolylane6]

Originally Posted by rolylane6

If it's just you and the FIL hunting the place, I would have a polite ftf talk with the guy and see where it goes. Good places are hard to find. It's worth trying to work it out.

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I just want emphasize that I said a "polite" face to face talk. Don't go into the conversation with an attitude of being right and he's wrong and don't address every concern you have at once. Sometimes these things take time to work out and for others to see the light so to speak. Keep doing what you're doing and try to be an example and hope the FIL will gradually get on board. Look for another place while doing it. If you find one, great. If not, maybe this one will develop into the place your after in the long run.
One of the leases I'm on was a shoot em up place when I got on it. They were shooting young deer and bringing friends and family to fill tags. I actually caught them sneaking a little 6pt off the place without a tag once. They immediately acted like they forgot, but from their reaction, I could tell they were stone cold busted. They went ahead and tagged it at that point. That was about 7 or 8 years ago. It's gotten better since then.

When I got on the place I took the attitude that it would be a meat lease if nothing else, but would I do my best to improve it if I could. I have never taken a righteous attitude of, "your doing it all wrong" and "you need to do it my way". I just do what I do and let them see the results. I share the knowledge I have and leave it at that. I've been successful and they've started seeing the difference it can make. They're all coming around and learning what it takes to grow/shoot mature deer. I don't judge them for not knowing any different but just let them learn as we go. I've shot a 169" and 150"+ off the place in the last 3 years. Those weren't so much a result of growing them bigger as it was just passing on younger deer til a mature one showed up but the result was the same. People can change when they see a better way of doing things if they're interested. Keep in mind, your "better way" may not be what their interested in. They may not be interested in big buck so they may not want a change. They could be happy just shooting deer, any deer, and spending time with family and friends. That's where the face to face talk comes in. Find out what they're interests are (without judgement) and take it for what it is. As others have said, enjoy it for what it is and do what you can to make it better. If they come along, great. If not, keep looking while enjoying this one.
If your looking for an immediate result and want a place that already manages for mature deer, then you should probably start looking real hard for another place and be prepared to shell out a little more money. The places that are already established are rarely cheap.
If you're looking for a place that's cheap, can be developed, and you're willing to spend some time in doing it, start with one step at a time and see where it goes. It could be a true diamond in the rough. Good luck with whatever you decide!

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[CEO]

You have a small place with competing goals. Nothing but headaches and heartburn unless you can convince the other group to change their ways.

I'd say adios.

[Walker]

Educate them if you can. Shoot a good mature buck and show them what they could have if they just laid off the babies.

[Coby_Buss]

I had similar issues with a lease I was on in Gonzales County. Had a bunch of older guys on it that drive loud 4 wheelers to the stand around 7:30am and had 1 guy that kept shooting young deer that had real potential. I got off that lease and searched for a lease all over Texas that was decently priced and couldn't find anything. I am now paying less money and killing bigger deer in the northern states. Hunting in Texas has gotten ridiculous, anyone that wants to pay 10k to kill a deer is out of their minds but people pay it and that is the issue.

[TexEnv]

Originally Posted by Coby_Buss

I had similar issues with a lease I was on in Gonzales County. Had a bunch of older guys on it that drive loud 4 wheelers to the stand around 7:30am and had 1 guy that kept shooting young deer that had real potential. I got off that lease and searched for a lease all over Texas that was decently priced and couldn't find anything. I am now paying less money and killing bigger deer in the northern states. Hunting in Texas has gotten ridiculous, anyone that wants to pay 10k to kill a deer is out of their minds but people pay it and that is the issue.

My bother and I have gone out of state as well. I assume you're on public going out of state? If you've found private land leases up north would send me a PM?

[Beargrasstx]

Originally Posted by TexEnv

My bother and I have gone out of state as well. I assume you're on public going out of state? If you've found private land leases up north would send me a PM?

Lol, I had sane idea but sent him a pm. If you find anything and need an extra guy please send me a message

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[Mitchell8]

I would put a snake in his boot.

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by Mitchell8

I would put a snake in his boot.

Do you drink a lot?

[Gerald G]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Do you drink a lot?

He has a history of posting stupid comments.

[Mitchell8]

Originally Posted by Gerald G

He has a history of posting stupid comments.

Hilarious? Thanks

[EarleyBird]

Originally Posted by Gerald G

He has a history of posting hilarious comments.

Fixed it!

[Bucknaked]

That’s exactly why i have to have the lease! I don’t put up with crap like that because I was in that situation a long time ago. As much as I love to hunt it is definitely not worth it to put up with this kind of BS. You and your BIL are the ones that need to get this squared away! He is the responsible party!

[PoppinPiggies]

If its cheap enough I would keep the place, especially if you are seeing mature deer. Try and hunt when they aren't there. Will probably be very difficult to replace that place in todays market. I think if money wasn't an object most people would rather hunt a lease in Texas for deer than public land in Texas if given the choice. I would keep the place while actively seeking a replacement.

[bowhuntntxn]

Being on a lease with zero family members is worth every penny. Also, being on a lease with adults who can talk to each other about goals and expectations is crucial.

I suggest you talk to the partied involved, and not the internet. Ultimately the opinions here will matter ZERO in the real life application.

[Traildust]

Have a conversation with them. If it doesn't work out. Fill your tags and move on.

[Lynn21]

Don’t get in a pissing contest with your bil, you will loose.

[Bassdeer]

Have a talk, that's all you can do. your screwed unless the BIL hates his farther.

[brokeno]

If you have 300 acres with no neighbors hunting your deer probably aren't living on your 300 acres. I would get all parties together and see what each of their management goals are. I would keep the place and try to get alone. I had a similar situation last year. I talked to my new neighbors about 2 young deer that had potential to be great deer. They were 4 yr olds. We looked at the pictures we talked about letting them grow another year of two. The Hunter 3 miles away had pictures of the same young beautiful 12 pt and thought he was only 3. Well. Guess what my new neighbors shot both the deer. I overhead someone ask them the other day if they have shot anything and they said that they messed up last year and haven't seen any older deer. I've got an older 9 that won't score much and a 3 yr old 8 and hopefully they didn't get killed over thanksgiving.

[TexEnv]

Originally Posted by brokeno

If you have 300 acres with no neighbors hunting your deer probably aren't living on your 300 acres. I would get all parties together and see what each of their management goals are. I would keep the place and try to get alone. I had a similar situation last year. I talked to my new neighbors about 2 young deer that had potential to be great deer. They were 4 yr olds. We looked at the pictures we talked about letting them grow another year of two. The Hunter 3 miles away had pictures of the same young beautiful 12 pt and thought he was only 3. Well. Guess what my new neighbors shot both the deer. I overhead someone ask them the other day if they have shot anything and they said that they messed up last year and haven't seen any older deer. I've got an older 9 that won't score much and a 3 yr old 8 and hopefully they didn't get killed over thanksgiving.

The older deer seem to be surviving (at least three are as of the week before Thanksgiving). I agree, I doubt they are living on our place, but to me our property could become a very frequented property if managed well. Your experience is my concern, once the young deer are shot, you don't have mature ones.

[TexEnv]

In any other situation I would have a FTF convo and would have hashed out expectations and goal before hand. With this being a family deal I've been biting my tongue. BIL's dad is a bit eccentric and tends to talk past you so I doubt it would do much good. I just wondered what other hunters in Texas are in as far as leases. I've been to leases where they were very structured and strict on management one even had rule on not shooting doe after thanksgiving to keep the deer numbers strong thinking all the doe were bred by the end of November and that way the fawn crop for the coming year was protected. Maybe it was to encourage guys to take doe? I'd like a lease that somewhere between no rules like where I am, and not shooting doe after Thanksgiving. That was my main point with the post, what are folks seeing as far as structure, and do you feel you are getting good bang for your buck?

[TxxAgg]

If they're blasting deer and making a ruckus, use it to your advantage to hunt the older smarter deer. I wouldn't give up on the place if the price is right. Try to be positive...life is too short for drama.

[Aggiehunter08]

Kudos for being a good hunter OP. Shooting 2-3 year old bucks doesn’t benefit anything or anyone. Have a nice FIRM conversation with FIL. He’ll probably never change his tactics but it’s worth a shot. Good luck!

[toledo]

600 yards? If they're really that far away, they're probably bothering you more than actually bothering the deer. If you're seeing good deer on camera, then ignore the other hunters.

[S-3 Ranch]

The father needs to go pound sand when people are hunting and it’s the BIL that
Needed to handle it because his father has a attitude problem with communication, leases have a waiting list of years don’t throw the baby out with the bath water

[lanceodom]

It sounds like you realize you are odd man out between the BIL and FIL. I would hunt it and enjoy time with my family. You are paying but it sounds like a good deal for you so you may not want to upset the apple cart. Maybe you give it some time to see how things shake out over the next couple of years. I would let the BIL set and enforce the rules. Good luck!

[tps7742]

Originally Posted by lanceodom

It sounds like you realize you are odd man out between the BIL and FIL. I would hunt it and enjoy time with my family. You are paying but it sounds like a good deal for you so you may not want to upset the apple cart. Maybe you give it some time to see how things shake out over the next couple of years. I would let the BIL set and enforce the rules. Good luck!

Now this sounds like a reasonable solution (for now) given your present situation. Good luck and just enjoy hunting.

[Benno]

From what I read, you are fighting a loosing battle. Sounds like a great place being no pressure surrounding the land. If the Bil, I call mine Dabil, is leasing the place for hay it must be fairly open land. Everyone wants something different from a lease, sounds like 3 people are getting what they want out of it and you are not. If the price is good, accept it for what it is and learn to not let the things you can’t control irritate you. If you’re going to sit out there everyone weekend irritated and ******, might as well leave and let someone else have it. You couldn’t pay me to hunt a place that I go to every weekend just to get mad.

[Snowflake Killa]

Life is too short. I'd move a long it always works out for the best.

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[Wits_End]

You will never find a lease without issues. Whether it's the other lessees, landowner, distance, money, neighbors, no deer, or whatever. It sounds like a generally good place, if you enjoy hunting and you think there is a remote chance to shoot a mature buck, stay and adjust. Hunt when they aren't there, hunt as deep in the woods as you can, sit all day. Maybe it's the wife's first buck and she was super excited about it. Hunt the way you hunt and let them hunt the way they hunt. Find bigger negative issues in life to concentrate on and enjoy all the positives with what you have.

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[Big pig]

Originally Posted by Wits_End

You will never find a lease without issues. Whether it's the other lessees, landowner, distance, money, neighbors, no deer, or whatever. It sounds like a generally good place, if you enjoy hunting and you think there is a remote chance to shoot a mature buck, stay and adjust. Hunt when they aren't there, hunt as deep in the woods as you can, sit all day. Maybe it's the wife's first buck and she was super excited about it. Hunt the way you hunt and let them hunt the way they hunt. Find bigger negative issues in life to concentrate on and enjoy all the positives with what you have.

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Agreed with most of the above!

But I was on a cheap lease without issues for past several years. Good old friends with like minded goals. I just moved too far from it when I retired.

I would hunt when they aren’t and enjoy the place. Sounds like bow season might be your best opportunity.
It’s never going to be a trophy lease with that BIL so take your bow and kill does and the oldest bucks you can.

[justletmein]

You're taking it too seriously for what it is, hunt it and have fun and leave the stress at the gate. You're not wrong in your complaints, but they're in the right setup and you're reaching down in quality. You won't change it so just enjoy it.

[easeup]

Originally Posted by justletmein

You're taking it too seriously for what it is, hunt it and have fun and leave the stress at the gate. You're not wrong in your complaints, but they're in the right setup and you're reaching down in quality. You won't change it so just enjoy it.

you dont know how good you have it.
But if it irritates you to no end, let it go and put in a good word for me to fill it.

[Txhunter3000]

Been there ans done that. You won't win the BIL battle. I walked and never regretted it to this day, 6 years. Bought my own places where I'm in charged.

[Abctx]

As mentioned by others, the odds of you winning a war with the father of your BIL (who controls the land), are slim. This is a small place (300 acres). Enjoy it for what it is. An inexpensive convenient place to hunt. Hell, start taking a bunch of your family, if that’s the way it’s going to be. No, it’s not going to be a trophy place. Just accept that.

Hunt the opposite side of the place. If he’s going to keep driving around during hunting hours, either say something or return the favor, to see if he gets the message. Tell him you had a 14 pointer that got scared off by the noise, and see if he shows any remorse.

Don’t let the guy steal your joy. Be on the lookout for another place, and quit this one WHEN you have found another. The time you spend out there with YOUR direct family will mean way more than whether you got a 160-class deer, or something way smaller.

[jds247]

The lease I'm currently on is 500 acres with 4 people. We all work different schedules so there's rarely more than 2 of us there at a time. Problem is the lease boss brings half his extended family to fill their tags. They don't pay anything and you can see a difference in deer movement after there's a lot of traffic on the place. I just go fill my tags and ignore it the best I can. I'm not gonna get off the lease until I have another one to go to. Next time around I'll know what questions to ask before I spend money.

I'd find a new lease before leaving that one. I doubt talking to them helps ..

[Cooper]

Stay on the lease....
Move your stand to the far back of the property and let them do what they want too.

[careybirdwell]

Your on a lease with someone who does share the same beliefs & hunting practices as you. It doesnt matter which way is right or wrong. Until you share it with like minds, it will not change

[Quackerbox]

Originally Posted by justletmein

You're taking it too seriously for what it is, hunt it and have fun and leave the stress at the gate. You're not wrong in your complaints, but they're in the right setup and you're reaching down in quality. You won't change it so just enjoy it.

Originally Posted by Cooper

Stay on the lease....
Move your stand to the far back of the property and let them do what they want too.

Both of these. Id keep doing your thing and when you drag a monster into camp, Id tell them cant have 150'' 10s if youre shooting 120'' 8s.

Sounds like a good place with plenty of potential. If no one else is hunting the surrounding land look at is as a 300 acre lease with X amount of sanctuary.

[rut-ro]

most places will have issues. Just enjoy the hunt. Sounds like it would be a great bow or late rifle season place as the others should be tagged out

[warrington]

alot of people have neighbors closer than 600 yards. If its expensive get off because you are not happy. If its cheap deal with it. If they 2-3 deer a year, that just gets them of the property earlier and can let you hunt the more mature deer.

[Daniel32]

It would seem like a list of lease rules outlining how may deer can be taken per member, blind placements, etc... that is signed by each member may help . That being said if he's not willing to talk to his FIL then who knows if he'll actually hold him accountable.

Seems like you may be in a no win situation. Like others have stated I would enjoy the time you have out there and not worry too much about your your BIL father. I know it may be hard but unless your BIL is willing to have a serious conversation with his FIL then nothing is going to change.

[DUKFVR]

Problem is they are enjoying the place with different goals. If y'all can't get together on it, you may as well leave. Never gonna end between trophy hunters & meat hunters. Some people are content just to enjoy the outdoors & shoot a legal deer. Nothing wrong with that. Others like you want horns. You can never make that work without getting upset. Why get on a place & be miserable all the time. One or both of y'all are going to have to change to make it work. I know myself when it got like that on a lease I left.

Good Luck on getting a solution.

[Gumbo Man]

Maintaining peace within the family has a lot more value than a deer lease. If it can’t be worked out so everyone is on the same page I would gracefully move on with no hard feelings. Regardless of how long you have known a person you really don’t know them untill you hunt with them. Just my .02 cents. Good luck OP.

[armadillophil]

I would ask to lease the whole place but that doesn't sound like a possibility. I would try to use there hunting style to my advantage. It sounds like it is under 1k per year so I would rather put up with a couple family members then public.

[bbqfan5909]

Seems like a simple solution, put a limit on animals taken by each hunter.

[Static1968]

^

[hopedale]

OP,

Sounds like you're paying less than $1500, and you've not discussed this with you BIL's Dad your thoughts on management.

Maybe before pulling out and looking for a new place go have a discussion. Its possible an agreement can be made.

As for as public land in Texas its hard, so as others have stated looking out of state maybe another direction to go.

If their focus is

[jdg13]

Y'all have competing goals. Sounds like they don't care so much about horns, which isn't some mortal sin, but doesn't jive with a trophy hunting mindset. Talk to them and try to set some guidelines that benefit both of you. Just don't be "that guy" who wants to micromanage everyone in the name of deer management. If they don't want to change, then you have to decide if you want to stay or not. I'd much rather be on a cheap lease where someone shoots a couple of young deer than be on public with all the clowns.