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Old 03-27-2021, 06:55 AM   #51
enewman
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Originally Posted by 12ring View Post
What speed was the 1500 gr arrow ?
sorry, bad picture. Here is a better one.
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Old 03-27-2021, 03:50 PM   #52
1sickLT1
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I dont think one NEEDS a pass through, but I am sure hoping for one every time I let it fly!
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Old 05-12-2021, 09:54 PM   #53
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Itís all about a big wound channel, pass through is all 90ís. Like shooting a deer with a needle. Same reason 30-06 will always be greater than the 6.5 creedmore.
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Old 05-15-2021, 02:06 PM   #54
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https://www.deerassociation.com/heav...-deer-hunting/
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Old 05-20-2021, 01:49 PM   #55
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Dang, enewman, all this time I thought you were a momentum proponent?

I don't care which one anybody pushes. If you aren't accurate and broadhead is dull, they both are mute points. Sticking with what works for me.

Last edited by lovemylegacy; 05-20-2021 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 05-20-2021, 03:12 PM   #56
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Picture of chart in post #51 shows that arrow weight only changes KE slightly from lightest 373 to heaviest 1500 arrow (about a 6% increase). Same chart momentum from lightest to heaviest more than doubles. This tells us that the heavier arrow is much harder to stop. Even if you speed the lighter arrow up to match KE you will still have better results with heavier arrow. I've shot many different arrow weights at many animals in my 40+ years of bowhunting and have come to the conclusion that heavier arrows give better results and more humane lethality.
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Old 05-24-2021, 07:38 PM   #57
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Well this thread died a slow death
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Old 05-24-2021, 08:09 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by enewman View Post
A heavier object will. But I'm matching the momentum. What I'm looking at is proving that momentum is not what causes penetration.

My test will be with one arrow at 400gr +/-5. The second arrow will be in the low 600gr. Not sure where yet, trying to match FOC. To match would mean the heavier arrow will have less KE.

Looking at physics and the test follows physics, what I will be showing That KE is what causes penetration, not momentum. It will also show that most people say that momentum built from mass will out penetrate momentum built on velocity is wrong.

I don't care which way the test comes out. Either way, one side will be happy, and the other side will be ******.

The side that will be ****** will also be the side that will do its best to show that I'm stupid. But I already have them fooled. I already know I'm stupid. hehehehehe.
You said you donít care either way, but reading all your posts say other wise.
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Old 05-25-2021, 02:25 PM   #59
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Well to answer OP question. I don't think it is needed, but I prefer it. A pass through the vitals is always easier to find, especially in a Pineywoods thicket.

I don't get the idea behind not having a pass through, but hey, Im just one man.
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Old 05-29-2021, 04:14 PM   #60
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When younger I was in Navy. I was at a bar with an old SEAL who was speaking to us on knives..

He mentioned seeing guys that had fought with machetes, chopping each other dozens of times prior to a fight ending. His point was: cuts that hit muscle and bone do little to stop folks until they simply get exhausted from too much blood loss to continue. This can take too long.

Deep wounds to vital organs kill. Often by shock. So the goal is to have the largest volume of "cut" sweeping through "vital organ" area, which are, depending on area, ~2-5" deep in humans in decent condition. Kabar is ~7" for example.

With this concept, arrow pass through is actually wasteful. The perfect broadhead would be one that was so big it lost all energy/momentum and passed only up to the far muscle wall or ribs, and never exited at all. Hard to make that happen though, right? So it seems like a good theory is "go deep or go home."
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Old 05-29-2021, 06:07 PM   #61
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Wow, this has turned into a physics class, just to get two holes through an animal. I’ve been doing it for years and have had zero problems. Now if I was having issues even getting two holes consistently on elk, I would be more interested. But since I never have, with lighter or heavier arrows I just don’t see the point. I think a far more important thing is shot placement and a properly tuned bow.

Last edited by critter69; 05-29-2021 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 06-04-2021, 08:52 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by lovemylegacy View Post
Dang, enewman, all this time I thought you were a momentum proponent?

I don't care which one anybody pushes. If you aren't accurate and broadhead is dull, they both are mute points. Sticking with what works for me.
I was till I got to studying physics. haha.
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Old 06-04-2021, 08:54 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware View Post
Picture of chart in post #51 shows that arrow weight only changes KE slightly from lightest 373 to heaviest 1500 arrow (about a 6% increase). Same chart momentum from lightest to heaviest more than doubles. This tells us that the heavier arrow is much harder to stop. Even if you speed the lighter arrow up to match KE you will still have better results with heavier arrow. I've shot many different arrow weights at many animals in my 40+ years of bowhunting and have come to the conclusion that heavier arrows give better results and more humane lethality.
No one is saying a heavy arrow shot from the same bow will not be beneficial. It will be. The only time it is not is trajectory.
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Old 06-04-2021, 08:59 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by critter69 View Post
Wow, this has turned into a physics class, just to get two holes through an animal. Iíve been doing it for years and have had zero problems. Now if I was having issues even getting two holes consistently on elk, I would be more interested. But since I never have, with lighter or heavier arrows I just donít see the point. I think a far more important thing is shot placement and a properly tuned bow.
It was about physics.

It was to show that a pass-through is not needed. It was about utilizing the amount of KE for a setup to get the largest cut possible to get an animal on the ground as fast as possible.

For you, this paper means nothing. So, for you, you will not see a point. But, for others, it will make a point.
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Old 06-04-2021, 09:11 AM   #65
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I think if you want a decent blood trail, you need pass-through from a significant projectile to make a devastating wound channel, gun or bow. Not sure why this is even a question.
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Old 06-04-2021, 09:31 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by tdwinklr View Post
I think if you want a decent blood trail, you need pass-through from a significant projectile to make a devastating wound channel, gun or bow. Not sure why this is even a question.
I would agree with this, but from the day's I shot those big nasty vortex broadheads https://vortexbroadheads.com/

you didn't need a blood trail. You'd see or hear them fall just out of range the majority of the time. Didn't punch them through much, with that bow I was shooting back then. I bet my PSE would zip them through now.
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Old 06-04-2021, 09:35 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by lovemylegacy View Post
Well to answer OP question. I don't think it is needed, but I prefer it. A pass through the vitals is always easier to find, especially in a Pineywoods thicket.

I don't get the idea behind not having a pass through, but hey, Im just one man.
I need it. It's been my experience that when my arrow zips right through a deer they typically don't even know what happened and will only take a few steps before falling over. On arrows that stuck and did not pass through the animal seemed much more agitated at that thing that was stuck in/on them and ran plumb outta sight. I much prefer to watch em die and not have to blood trail them so I build arrows and use heads that achieve this more often than not. So far there has not be a NOT. All have zipped through.
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Old 06-07-2021, 09:08 PM   #68
lovemylegacy
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I need it. It's been my experience that when my arrow zips right through a deer they typically don't even know what happened and will only take a few steps before falling over. On arrows that stuck and did not pass through the animal seemed much more agitated at that thing that was stuck in/on them and ran plumb outta sight. I much prefer to watch em die and not have to blood trail them so I build arrows and use heads that achieve this more often than not. So far there has not be a NOT. All have zipped through.
Here, here!!!

I agree. Gonna stick with what works.

Love the thread by the way.
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