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Old 02-14-2020, 06:43 PM   #51
IkemanTX
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Default Time for adult arrows....

On a side note, the other hit list 8-point at this stand location didnít make it through the season. Found his skull this morning scouting. Last I saw of him was first week of December, and for about 2-3 weeks he had been limping BAD with a busted shoulder. No noticeable punctures or cuts, so Iím figuring a car hit him.

He was chasing does and moving pretty well, so I had high hopes he would make the year and recover. Just wasnít in the cards.



Thereís still at least 4 other really good targets that I know made the season on this piece of public though, so all is not lost.


Iíll try and put a tape on him this evening. I think he may also squeak into P&Y, which would be cool to have 2 P&Y 8-pointers at the same tree on public land.

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Old 02-14-2020, 07:42 PM   #52
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Cool find! I bet his brows keep him out, but outstanding buck reguardless!
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Old 02-14-2020, 07:59 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by muddyfuzzy View Post
So Rock, I just have to ask...... how long does something have to be around to not be considered a ďfadĒ as you describe it? Could it be people are delving into the science and/or physics of arrow lethality more than the previous generation of bowhunters? Could it be that the information is more widely available and accessible to folks today than it was 10 years ago? I think most of us that have been here a few years know your position on the subject and the general negative feedback you present in regards to more aggressive arrow setups, I know I am. I concede the fact that there are a variety of factors that impact lethality with modern archery equipment but to arbitrarily write off what science has proven to be fact is just downright silly. I often wonder what it would take to legitimize the concept for you but then I come back to reality and realize I donít care.




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I hate that you donít care about anyoneís thoughts about killing potential with an arrow. Ashby did his studies using traditional equipment. Todayís compounds produce considerably more speed. Arrow speed throws a kink in Ashbyís studies. Hurricanes can drive a broom stick through an oak tree. All Iím saying is that a whitetail is not the animal to start building heavyweight arrows to kill.
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Old 02-15-2020, 09:48 AM   #54
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Cool find! I bet his brows keep him out, but outstanding buck reguardless!


I am definitely not an official scorer, but I think these measurements are pretty darn close....

So long as I didnít completely screw the pooch,
He easily slid into P&Y






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Old 02-15-2020, 09:53 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Low Fence View Post
Just a heads up:

@650g you will be hurling that log at around 215 FPS

You do you and have fun experimenting and learning. Like politics, the truth is in the middle. 400g and even lighter kill and pass through 1000000000 of animals. No amount of weight makes up for poor shooting or just bad luck.

If you hunt a known yardage “bait/feeder” your trajectory won’t be a big deal. But from experience I fear no deer or pig shoulder with box store broadheads light poundage and 28” draw (385gr arrow)... (testing 405 now, for flight purposes only)
Totally agree, I think most penetration problems are tuning issues more so then lack of weight. RF has some good points ( as do most people) but he shoots very close to his feeders also, well under 20 yards I hear. ( I personally can’t watch the guy). If your going to shoot various ranges and out to longer distance ( spot and stalk) trajectory can be an issue. I have hit limbs that I thought were way above my trajectory curve, using fairly heavy arrows. I had no problem with penetration on my light arrow set ups ( 350-375) , but switched because it’s the thing to do. I did miss a few animals I don’t think I would have with my lighter set ups. So now I have settled around 450-500 and it works great on everything I have shot, but so did my lighter set up and heavy setups ( 600-700) when I put the arrows where they are supposed to be put ( noise and less stress on the bows primarily reason) He was kicked off one of the sights I am on, I guess.Lol.

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Old 02-15-2020, 10:13 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by rocky View Post
I hate that you donít care about anyoneís thoughts about killing potential with an arrow. Ashby did his studies using traditional equipment. Todayís compounds produce considerably more speed. Arrow speed throws a kink in Ashbyís studies. Hurricanes can drive a broom stick through an oak tree. All Iím saying is that a whitetail is not the animal to start building heavyweight arrows to kill.
But do the broomsticks get a full passthrough? That's the real question lmao

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Old 02-15-2020, 10:26 AM   #57
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Why not use an arrow that weighs 1,000 grains or more? Seems like there is no negatives to super heavy, extremely high foc arrows. ? Where is the point of diminishing return?
Watch bowhunter64 video on building an arrow for Cape buffalo. One is i believe 1500 gr. ( 70 lb bow) and it impacts the target 7-8 feet below his ď regularĒ arrow at 40 yards. And yea everybody says you canít shoot to heavy, why are they not shooting these 1000- 1500 gr arrows. The majority are hunting from stands, so the distance is not to far and known. Shoot man why not shoot rebar arrows, you ainít going to brake one, and the weight can only help.
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Old 02-15-2020, 11:32 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by IkemanTX View Post
I am definitely not an official scorer, but I think these measurements are pretty darn close....

So long as I didnít completely screw the pooch,
He easily slid into P&Y






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Oh wow. Those are a lot better pics. Great deer!!!!
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Old 02-15-2020, 11:33 AM   #59
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Totally agree, I think most penetration problems are tuning issues more so then lack of weight. RF has some good points ( as do most people) but he shoots very close to his feeders also, well under 20 yards I hear. ( I personally canít watch the guy). If your going to shoot various ranges and out to longer distance ( spot and stalk) trajectory can be an issue. I have hit limbs that I thought were way above my trajectory curve, using fairly heavy arrows. I had no problem with penetration on my light arrow set ups ( 350-375) , but switched because itís the thing to do. I did miss a few animals I donít think I would have with my lighter set ups. So now I have settled around 450-500 and it works great on everything I have shot, but so did my lighter set up and heavy setups ( 600-700) when I put the arrows where they are supposed to be put ( noise and less stress on the bows primarily reason) He was kicked off one of the sights I am on, I guess.Lol.


I havenít shot past mid 20ís yardage wise in 6 years.
I hunt public land, in thick bedding locations. Most of my setups, I canít even see past 35 yards. Iíd love to shoot 45 yards at a deer from a field edge, but thatís not where I find them on most public ground. Theyíre in the thick crap where they feel safe.

My personal, self imposed max shooting distance is 35 yards. Getting into the upper 500ís to mid 600ís grain wise on a modern bow at 70lb draw weight wonít hurt my trajectory enough to not be easily manageable.

If I was a western hunter, this would definitely be a much more major factor to consider.

And going back to the shot placement thing... this ainít target shooting. Our targets can, and sometimes will, move 6-10 inches before impact. So, I am building a rig to handle that if/when that occurs.
With me hunting shell shocked public bucks, I figure it will more times than not.

Another thing is, with all the smilax vines and saplings in the thick areas I hunt, the extra weight (especially FOC weight) will reduce the potential of deflections if my arrow clips a vine on the way in.

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Old 02-15-2020, 11:56 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by rocky View Post
I hate that you donít care about anyoneís thoughts about killing potential with an arrow. Ashby did his studies using traditional equipment. Todayís compounds produce considerably more speed. Arrow speed throws a kink in Ashbyís studies. Hurricanes can drive a broom stick through an oak tree. All Iím saying is that a whitetail is not the animal to start building heavyweight arrows to kill.

Please donít misrepresent my position. A quick search will produced COUNTLESS posts in which I advocate shooting arrows in the 475-500 grain range for NA species not just deer. I post specs on all my builds and itís not coincidental that most fall into that range of total weight. I have some on the bench right now that are 480 so I donít really know what you are talking about. I have no issue with guys shooting what they want, I just have issue with condescending remarks that are just a way of throwing shade on good work people are doing.


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Old 02-15-2020, 01:38 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by muddyfuzzy View Post
Please donít misrepresent my position. A quick search will produced COUNTLESS posts in which I advocate shooting arrows in the 475-500 grain range for NA species not just deer. I post specs on all my builds and itís not coincidental that most fall into that range of total weight. I have some on the bench right now that are 480 so I donít really know what you are talking about. I have no issue with guys shooting what they want, I just have issue with condescending remarks that are just a way of throwing shade on good work people are doing.


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Can't wait to fling those.

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Old 02-15-2020, 04:59 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by muddyfuzzy View Post
Please donít misrepresent my position. A quick search will produced COUNTLESS posts in which I advocate shooting arrows in the 475-500 grain range for NA species not just deer. I post specs on all my builds and itís not coincidental that most fall into that range of total weight. I have some on the bench right now that are 480 so I donít really know what you are talking about. I have no issue with guys shooting what they want, I just have issue with condescending remarks that are just a way of throwing shade on good work people are doing.


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If you perceived my post as condescending, I apologize. But this heavy, high foc arrow deal has come into vogue in the last few years. I completely agree with this mindset on larger, tougher animals. I simply believe from my experience on whitetails that it is not necessary. In my opinion, mid-weight arrows and flat trajectory are a lot more beneficial to whitetail hunters. Whitetails are not that tough.
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Old 02-15-2020, 05:10 PM   #63
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Shafts and field tip test kit came in today. Going to have my bow adjusted back to 70 lbs on Monday, then will paper test all the variations of 200, 225, 250, 275, and 300 grain field tips against my 250 and 300 spine arrows. The best combination will get ordered once I decide on a broadhead (so I know the weight of my insert + broadhead matches the tested field tip)

Im not gonna lie... Iím pretty excited to get my new arrows set up and get the bow re-tuned.
Iím sure I will have to adjust the bow some, with the adjustments in draw weight and arrow weight changes. I figure I will paper test (and walk back tune) a few of the arrows before fletching them to get the bow tuned up, then nock tune, then fletch, then broadhead tune.

I am considering picking up a blob target and dedicating a set of broadheads to target shooting as the season nears, so thereís no change between practice and field performance at all.


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Old 02-15-2020, 05:33 PM   #64
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Blobs are freeking awesome!


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Old 02-18-2020, 11:25 AM   #65
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Started paper tuning today. I ran both my 250 spine, and 300 spine shafts through the Ethics Archery field point test pack.

PSE Decree HD at 70lbs with a 27ď draw (27.75Ē arrow)Black eagle Carnivore arrows with standard insert and nock.

The ďgrainsĒ listed below is field point weight, not arrow weight.

300 spine shot nock-low throughout the entire weight range. The 250 spine started out shooting nock slightly high and right, but centered nicely at the 300gr field point.











Ranch Fairyís recommendation is to nock tune the 250 shaft with the 300gr tip and see if I can get it shooting completely clean punches.

I have an insert weight kit coming on Thursday, and will continue going up the weight scale and see what my bow likes and doesnít like up to probably 400gr in the front. At this point, it looks like the 250 spine will end up being my go-to, probably with 300gr total up front weight... unless a higher weight shoots better once the weight kit arrives. If thatís what I go with, that would put me at 612.3 grains total arrow weight with 21.7% FOC with feathers and glory nicks. A fair bit different than my 447.5 grain total arrow weight Iím shooting now. I also hope to find a heavier weight combination that shoots as well as the 300gr tip currently does so I can test the 612 grain arrow against the heavier one trajectory wise.

Iím already shooting higher at 20 yards with the heavy setup at 70lbs than I was with the 447.5 grain setup at 60lbs. Thatís a good sign this wonít all screw me up.


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Old 02-18-2020, 08:03 PM   #66
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Do you know what the tears in the paper are telling you?
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Old 02-18-2020, 08:08 PM   #67
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Do you know what the tears in the paper are telling you?


I do. Hard to get a good pic, but it is easier to see the field tip hole vs the shaft tear in person.


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Old 02-18-2020, 08:52 PM   #68
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I do. Hard to get a good pic, but it is easier to see the field tip hole vs the shaft tear in person.


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What are the tears telling you?
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Old 02-18-2020, 08:56 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Big Ace View Post
#1: I would get your bow and arrow tuned properly. Lack of penetration from tuning issues will get you know matter how much arrow mass weight you shoot.

#2: I wouldn’t be scared of a whitetail shoulder w/ 480 grains.

#3: With a short draw of 27”, you can build high FOC arrows with relative ease.

#4: For my hunting purposes, I would try to balance your arrow mass weight to speed ratio. I.E. shoot the heaviest arrow that you can within your own arrow trajectory limits.
Bingo, great advise. A lot of penetration issues are from poor arrow flight. Don’t shoot at moving animals, is another thing I won’t do. No matter what’s on his head. If your going to shoot adult arrows why stop at 600, 700, 800 gr. ( and I’ve seen them stopped short) I mean if your building an “ adult” arrow to shoot through everything ( never going to happen) why not 1000-1500 gr.

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Old 02-19-2020, 08:01 AM   #70
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You are going to need a lot of weight forward for those 250's with your draw length, start at about 125 grains and work though your 275-300 tips.
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Old 02-19-2020, 08:07 AM   #71
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Iím not quite sure about those tears. They do not look clean to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IkemanTX View Post
Started paper tuning today. I ran both my 250 spine, and 300 spine shafts through the Ethics Archery field point test pack.

PSE Decree HD at 70lbs with a 27ď draw (27.75Ē arrow)Black eagle Carnivore arrows with standard insert and nock.

The ďgrainsĒ listed below is field point weight, not arrow weight.

300 spine shot nock-low throughout the entire weight range. The 250 spine started out shooting nock slightly high and right, but centered nicely at the 300gr field point.












Ranch Fairyís recommendation is to nock tune the 250 shaft with the 300gr tip and see if I can get it shooting completely clean punches.

I have an insert weight kit coming on Thursday, and will continue going up the weight scale and see what my bow likes and doesnít like up to probably 400gr in the front. At this point, it looks like the 250 spine will end up being my go-to, probably with 300gr total up front weight... unless a higher weight shoots better once the weight kit arrives. If thatís what I go with, that would put me at 612.3 grains total arrow weight with 21.7% FOC with feathers and glory nicks. A fair bit different than my 447.5 grain total arrow weight Iím shooting now. I also hope to find a heavier weight combination that shoots as well as the 300gr tip currently does so I can test the 612 grain arrow against the heavier one trajectory wise.

Iím already shooting higher at 20 yards with the heavy setup at 70lbs than I was with the 447.5 grain setup at 60lbs. Thatís a good sign this wonít all screw me up.


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Old 02-19-2020, 09:04 AM   #72
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Iím not quite sure about those tears. They do not look clean to me.


Oh, Iím not done..
Iím not going to fully paper tune to a specific setup until I find which spine/weight combination wants to behave the most to start with. I am awaiting a set of insert weights to continue going up the weight range.

The holes shown in the pictures above are me not adjusting the bow at all. It is simply to see what arrows and tip weights behave best in my bow, with my form. Once I decide on a setup, I will paper tune to that specific setup.


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Old 02-19-2020, 09:19 AM   #73
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Bingo, great advise. A lot of penetration issues are from poor arrow flight. Donít shoot at moving animals, is another thing I wonít do. No matter whatís on his head. If your going to shoot adult arrows why stop at 600, 700, 800 gr. ( and Iíve seen them stopped short) I mean if your building an ď adultĒ arrow to shoot through everything ( never going to happen) why not 1000-1500 gr.


As stated above in my original response to his post. My previous setup was paper tuned and walk back tuned to a clean bare-shaft bullet hole. Tuning wasnít the issue.

Th main issue with that setup was that I was WAY underspined with a 400 spine shaft. I was definitely shooting a limp noodle. I got full broadhead pass through, but not full arrow pass through. It clipped 2 ribs on the way in, and another 2 on the way out.
I would consider that ďdecentĒ performance, and the buck went down in 80 yards. Iíd rather have a blow through setup than a decent setup. And, I want it correctly spined this time.


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Old 02-19-2020, 09:48 AM   #74
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Donít shoot at moving animals, is another thing I wonít do.
Except just about every animal is moving by the time the arrow gets there
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:55 AM   #75
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Limp noodle...Ha!

Itll be interesting to see the difference in your previous setup momentum and new arrow setup momentum.

Good luck on the tuning hokey pokey Ikeman...I hope the new system is an al dente killer.
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:10 PM   #76
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Limp noodle...Ha!

Itll be interesting to see the difference in your previous setup momentum and new arrow setup momentum.

Good luck on the tuning hokey pokey Ikeman...I hope the new system is an al dente killer.
Momentum or Kinetic Energy?
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Old 02-19-2020, 12:52 PM   #77
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Momentum or Kinetic Energy?


Momentum.

I am significantly less concerned with KE than I am momentum.


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Old 02-20-2020, 11:32 AM   #78
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" But i pass through on all my shots with 375gn and a mechanical head"

just wanted to point out that the shooting both dots on the picture are not the same yet mechanical manufacturers recommend shooting the blue dot....wonder why?


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Old 02-20-2020, 04:26 PM   #79
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Very interesting thread, I have never put this much thought into the specifics of arrow & bow specs. I have always preferred speed and accuracy instead of shock force.
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Old 02-20-2020, 04:58 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Abu_dude View Post
" But i pass through on all my shots with 375gn and a mechanical head"

just wanted to point out that the shooting both dots on the picture are not the same yet mechanical manufacturers recommend shooting the blue dot....wonder why?


Attachment 992841
I hate mechanicals..... but Iíve been in this game a long time and never heard anyone promoting that shot.

As for the other dot, Iíve shot and been on numerous hunts where 385-420gr have broken both legs even cutting/ breaking a leg off with box store, off the shelf broadheads. Again a deer ainít that tough an animal
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:50 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by rocky View Post
I hate that you donít care about anyoneís thoughts about killing potential with an arrow. Ashby did his studies using traditional equipment. Todayís compounds produce considerably more speed. Arrow speed throws a kink in Ashbyís studies. Hurricanes can drive a broom stick through an oak tree. All Iím saying is that a whitetail is not the animal to start building heavyweight arrows to kill.
this is incorrect. compound bows were used in the studies. its all in there. you just must-read.
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:53 AM   #82
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What are the tears telling you?
looking at the 300 spine shots. this alone tells me his bow is set up incorrectly.
this means at this point everything he is doing is wrong.

IkemanTx. Whoever is telling you how to use this test kit doesn't understand what is going on. you need to step back and set your bow correctly.

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Old 02-21-2020, 09:58 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Abu_dude View Post
" But i pass through on all my shots with 375gn and a mechanical head"

just wanted to point out that the shooting both dots on the picture are not the same yet mechanical manufacturers recommend shooting the blue dot....wonder why?


Attachment 992841
I aim for the green dot, shooting mechanicals. Thatís the perfect shot. That is not punching through shoulders, reality is if you hit scapula or leg bone, itís a poor shot.
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Old 02-21-2020, 02:09 PM   #84
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I aim for the green dot, shooting mechanicals. Thatís the perfect shot. That is not punching through shoulders, reality is if you hit scapula or leg bone, itís a poor shot.
Is it a poor shot? Or is it reality because animals move?
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Old 02-21-2020, 02:33 PM   #85
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Is it a poor shot? Or is it reality because animals move?
Post #74
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Old 02-21-2020, 02:35 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by enewman View Post
Is it a poor shot? Or is it reality because animals move?


A bad shot is a bad shot. Doesnít matter the reason. Nobody goes out and intentionally makes a bad shot. Animals move, misjudge yardage, get antsy, pull the shot, hit a limb etc. the end result is the same.

Last edited by panhandlehunter; 02-21-2020 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 02-21-2020, 03:59 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Duckologist View Post
Post #74
ok, what if the animal moves not before but after the shot?
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Old 02-21-2020, 04:03 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by panhandlehunter View Post
A bad shot is a bad shot. Doesnít matter the reason. Nobody goes out and intentionally makes a bad shot. Animals move, misjudge yardage, get antsy, pull the shot, hit a limb etc. the end result is the same.
you are correct no one ever intentionally makes a bad shot. but some can be prevented. correct arrow build.

example if you are the type that shoots far back, then use a mechanical head. chances are greater of hitting the guts.

I shoot forward and low. I have a greater chance of hitting bone. I build arrows for this reason.

always a way to do things to help when crap goes bad.
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Old 02-21-2020, 04:15 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by enewman View Post
ok, what if the animal moves not before but after the shot?
That's what I meant

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Old 02-21-2020, 04:42 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by panhandlehunter View Post
A bad shot is a bad shot. Doesnít matter the reason. Nobody goes out and intentionally makes a bad shot. Animals move, misjudge yardage, get antsy, pull the shot, hit a limb etc. the end result is the same.
I believe people do go out and intentionally make bad shots, just look at how many posts there are about wanting setups to brake shoulder joints. Being able to ď safetyĒ take frontal, head on shots. Not being concerned if they are off a little or or the animal isnít in perfect position. I understand bad shots happen, but a lot go in thinking theirĒ heavyĒ setup will make bad shots, good shots. I think that is why a number of people are switching to heavier arrows, itís pretty obvious when you read enough posts.

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Old 02-21-2020, 04:45 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by enewman View Post
looking at the 300 spine shots. this alone tells me his bow is set up incorrectly.
this means at this point everything he is doing is wrong.

IkemanTx. Whoever is telling you how to use this test kit doesn't understand what is going on. you need to step back and set your bow correctly.


So enlighten me...
Why is the 250 shooting well at 8í and 3í paper tuned shots when the 300 isnít?


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Old 02-21-2020, 04:47 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by panhandlehunter View Post
A bad shot is a bad shot. Doesnít matter the reason. Nobody goes out and intentionally makes a bad shot. Animals move, misjudge yardage, get antsy, pull the shot, hit a limb etc. the end result is the same.
You are right, a bad shot is a bad shot. However, the end result isn't always the same. Having COC broadheads and a heavier FOC arrow allows you to punch through potential problem spots that lighter arrows with a flapper on the front would have a lesser chance of getting through.
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Old 02-21-2020, 04:51 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by critter69 View Post
I believe people do go out and intentionally make bad shots, just look at how many posts there are about wanting setups to brake shoulder joints. Being able to ď safetyĒ take frontal, head on shots. Not being concerned if they are off a little or or the animal isnít in perfect position. I understand bad shots happen, but a lot go in thinking theirĒ heavyĒ setup will make bad shots, good shots. I think that is why a number of people are switching to heavier arrows, itís pretty obvious when you read enough posts.
I agree with you 100%.
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Old 02-21-2020, 04:54 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Abu_dude View Post
You are right, a bad shot is a bad shot. However, the end result isn't always the same. Having COC broadheads and a heavier FOC arrow allows you to punch through potential problem spots that lighter arrows with a flapper on the front would have a lesser chance of getting through.
Im in the camp of you need to practice more, be patient, and be willing to let one walk away. If you want to kill a deer every time you see one, put the bow down and pick up the gun. A heavy arrow makes a bad shot, a bad shot with a heavy arrow. Lol. There are only few circumstances where the weight of the arrow would make any difference, and they are all taking marginal shots. My wife gets pass throughs pulling 41#s with Rage broadheads.
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Old 02-21-2020, 05:13 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by critter69 View Post
I believe people do go out and intentionally make bad shots, just look at how many posts there are about wanting setups to brake shoulder joints. Being able to ď safetyĒ take frontal, head on shots. Not being concerned if they are off a little or or the animal isnít in perfect position. I understand bad shots happen, but a lot go in thinking theirĒ heavyĒ setup will make bad shots, good shots. I think that is why a number of people are switching to heavier arrows, itís pretty obvious when you read enough posts.
I donít want this thread to derail, and if I were smarter Iíd post a gif of someone clapping for this

I honestly think good ol ďDrĒ had the best of all intentions with this information. But it has spurred a movement with new (inexperienced) and some older archers that are responsible for more wounded animals that the top 5 worst mechanical broadheads combined.

Numbers are great tools to measure a result.... but mean absolutely $&@% on an animal. I can say that because of hundreds of personal experiences that prove middle of road is more than enough even on ďtoughĒ angles.

I enjoy tinkering from tine to time but this notion that you canít kill a deer without x,y,z is laughable... actually sad when it has no merit to show more lethal than the hundreds of animals Iíve killed
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Old 02-21-2020, 05:13 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by panhandlehunter View Post
Im in the camp of you need to practice more, be patient, and be willing to let one walk away. If you want to kill a deer every time you see one, put the bow down and pick up the gun. A heavy arrow makes a bad shot, a bad shot with a heavy arrow. Lol. There are only few circumstances where the weight of the arrow would make any difference, and they are all taking marginal shots. My wife gets pass throughs pulling 41#s with Rage broadheads.
Again


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Old 02-21-2020, 05:22 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Abu_dude View Post
" But i pass through on all my shots with 375gn and a mechanical head"

just wanted to point out that the shooting both dots on the picture are not the same yet mechanical manufacturers recommend shooting the blue dot....wonder why?


Attachment 992841
What , I have shot a lot of mech. and never ever heard this ! Where did you read it ? And I have never had or seen a mech. fail, or fail to to pass through when shot any where near the green dot. I have seen two different fixed heads loose blades on braking the onside ribs, and failing in both the blades and pass through department. And Iíve seen many many shot with everything thing from really light to extremely heavy setups.
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Old 02-21-2020, 05:26 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Duckologist View Post
That's what I meant

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I'm just giving you a hard time. been at the desk al day.
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Old 02-21-2020, 05:36 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Low Fence View Post
... so by physics standards: if I shoot a deer in the brisket head on and it doesn’t exit the balloon knot... it was the arrows fault?

I’ll take the blame for every animal I’ve lost. 100% were due to shot placement. No 25-100000 gr would have made a difference.


And IF we are talking; deer & hogs WITH modern compounds it’s all personal flavor. If you can’t kill em with that.... it ain’t the physics

Perfect flight with the least amount of bandaids possible and an adequate SHARP broadhead will win

Again. The truth is in the middle. But you do you and I won’t hate
I know where your coming from, I remember back in the overdraw days shooting the shortest, lightest arrow we could. I don’t recall having any issues with pass throughs even back then. Bows were slower and much nosier then they are today. Tuning seemed it was much harder back then, but once you got the flight right we never had issues. Now with the faster, more efficient, quieter, less vibration bows we can shoot arrows with far more authority then those by gone days. I see the biggest advantage with “ heavier” arrows the noise is less. Tuning is generally easier. But I’ve seen issues with to heavy of arrows also. It’s crazy we killed anything back then when you read some of these posts. No way moose and African animals should have ever died back then. But some how they did, and still do.

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Old 02-21-2020, 05:44 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by IkemanTX View Post
So enlighten me...
Why is the 250 shooting well at 8’ and 3’ paper tuned shots when the 300 isn’t?


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first, you must learn what reactions mean.

compound bow with the release. side tears are power stroke is incorrect. now the right tear is also signed of torque. you looked good there.

up and down tear. a high tear can be a weak reaction. it can be a nock travel issue.

a low tear as you have is a nock travel issue. the easy way of knowing is because as you added tip weight to that 300 spine and you got no changes. this tells me something is not set correctly. you are having a greater pull from the bottom of the bow. this could be a top weak limb or a strong bottom limb. could be you are to low in the burger hole. arrow not level or the cams are out of sync. anyone of these could be the problem, but for sure one is not correct. when a bow is set correctly. you should have a bullet hole with the lighter tip. it will pretty much stay that way till you reach a point where it is to much tip weight. when this happens it will go to a high tear.

this is nothing but reactions. this is why nock tuning is very important to always do first.

this was a fast explanation.
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