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Old 10-30-2020, 09:33 PM   #151
pelochas
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im shooting 29" gt hunter xt 340, gt 100g brass insert, 100g gt screw ins fact system, and iron wills 125 wides. 630 grain total foc 22%
i had paper tuned at gulf coast archery before this high foc build and found that everything was way off after the build. simply moving the qad rest left to fix the right paper tear got me pin holes at 15 yards. fletch arrows got me bullseyes. im good with that at 30 yards. elite ritual 33, 60 lbs
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Old 10-31-2020, 09:11 AM   #152
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My ultimate goal is to be confident to take the kill zone shot, regardless of animal angle."

And bam, exactly what I said this heavy arrow craze is promoting. Trying to convince people a heavy arrow will make a bad shot a good shot. It donít matter what arrow, how much that arrow weighs, how much foc it has,, how heavy of weight you are drawing, what broadhead you use. A BAD SHOT IS A BAD SHOT, AND SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN. We are taking the life of an animal, and they are not ď test mediaĒ. We need to make it humane, and as quick a death as we possibly can. This heavy arrow #$& is giving so many people very bad ideas, way worse then then the light arrow, fast crowd. At least good shot placement is still recommended, and no amount of arrow weight is going to make a bad shot a good shot.
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Old 10-31-2020, 11:57 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by critter69 View Post
My ultimate goal is to be confident to take the kill zone shot, regardless of animal angle."

And bam, exactly what I said this heavy arrow craze is promoting. Trying to convince people a heavy arrow will make a bad shot a good shot. It donít matter what arrow, how much that arrow weighs, how much foc it has,, how heavy of weight you are drawing, what broadhead you use. A BAD SHOT IS A BAD SHOT, AND SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN. We are taking the life of an animal, and they are not ď test mediaĒ. We need to make it humane, and as quick a death as we possibly can. This heavy arrow #$& is giving so many people very bad ideas, way worse then then the light arrow, fast crowd. At least good shot placement is still recommended, and no amount of arrow weight is going to make a bad shot a good shot.

I donít think anyone is advocating taking a bad shot, I donít recall reading that in any of the previous posts so letís be clear those are YOUR words and nobody elseís. Now that We have clarified that please allow me to respond.

Would I advise somebody to take a quartering-to shot with with a 420 grain arrow with average FOC shooting a marginal or mechanical broadhead.....absolutely not. If somebody is running 550+ plus grains with high/EFOC shooting the proper broadhead then itís definitely a possibility. There are no ďbad shotsĒ before the arrow leaves the bow, only bad decisions. Knowing your equipment, whatís itís capable of, the uniqueness of each scenario and most importantly YOUR skill level are all an factors in determining wether or not to shoot. If you can check all those boxes then you can open up some opportunities. A ďbad shotĒ is exactly that a bad shot where the actual POI is not the intended POI. That could be from an animal moving, a deflection off a twig, tuning issue or just user error. However, if i shoot a WT at 25 yds with a 625 grain arrow with 24% EFOC with a robust two blade single bevel head breaking the front scapula on the way to vitals netting in a 30 yd recovery that is anything but a bad shot. Nobody is promoting anything, you are either an advocate or you arenít and everybody is certainly entitled to their 1st A right. Personally I tend to favor the physics, the math and the data rather than cheap talk but thatís just me. You donít like it thatís fine but throwing shade on others that donít fit your personal narrative on arrow philosophy sounds a lot like Leftist propaganda to me.....


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Old 10-31-2020, 03:25 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by muddyfuzzy View Post
I don’t think anyone is advocating taking a bad shot, I don’t recall reading that in any of the previous posts so let’s be clear those are YOUR words and nobody else’s. Now that We have clarified that please allow me to respond.

Would I advise somebody to take a quartering-to shot with with a 420 grain arrow with average FOC shooting a marginal or mechanical broadhead.....absolutely not. If somebody is running 550+ plus grains with high/EFOC shooting the proper broadhead then it’s definitely a possibility. There are no “bad shots” before the arrow leaves the bow, only bad decisions. Knowing your equipment, what’s it’s capable of, the uniqueness of each scenario and most importantly YOUR skill level are all an factors in determining wether or not to shoot. If you can check all those boxes then you can open up some opportunities. A “bad shot” is exactly that a bad shot where the actual POI is not the intended POI. That could be from an animal moving, a deflection off a twig, tuning issue or just user error. However, if i shoot a WT at 25 yds with a 625 grain arrow with 24% EFOC with a robust two blade single bevel head breaking the front scapula on the way to vitals netting in a 30 yd recovery that is anything but a bad shot. Nobody is promoting anything, you are either an advocate or you aren’t and everybody is certainly entitled to their 1st A right. Personally I tend to favor the physics, the math and the data rather than cheap talk but that’s just me. You don’t like it that’s fine but throwing shade on others that don’t fit your personal narrative on arrow philosophy sounds a lot like Leftist propaganda to me.....


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No this was a quote from a previous post, I just “ copied” that part of it and pasted here. Pretty obvious some are using the heavy arrow for the wrong purpose. I don’t care what side your on ! And no a bad shot can also be a perfect shot. Some one thinks they “know” they have a heavy enough arrow, to shoot through that heavy bone. And hits exactly where they intended and the arrow fails, or the arrow and broad head fail. They made a perfect shot, hit right where they wanted, and in no way should they have taken the shot. I don’t care what any body shoots, heavy light, or any where in between. You still should wait for a good clean ethical shot. I don’t follow the agenda, I shoot a heavy arrow, so I can shoot through bone that a “ lesser” arrow won’t get through. I’ve seen javelina stop 1000 gr. with iron wills on more then a few occasions, from a guy and his buddies with the “ adult arrow” attitude thinking it will make up for their poor decision attitude. ( 80 lb. hoyt, 30” draw, 23% foc and those javelina stopped that arrow several times) They have shot and lost more animals then any body in camp, because they think they can shoot any thing from any angle and it will die. He is on the Africa plan now, he hits it he pays for it. His buddies will be on the same plan this year also, if they come back shooting like they have been. All they talk about is this fairy guy, so we call them all tinker bells. Between them guys last year I think they failed to recover 8 or 9 animals on this one hunt. And they bragged about shooting a few deer and an elk on a hunt they were on also, and they were poor angles and never found them either, but hey they still get to hunt, as they say. Yea, I’ve seen it, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. You can talk about physics and it will do this and that, but in real life ( death) that don’t always pan out. In fact many times over I’ve seen it not work, it gives many a false sense in their equipment. Leftist rightest call me what you want, it’s not the solution many are thinking it is.

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Old 10-31-2020, 03:46 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by pelochas View Post
im shooting 29" gt hunter xt 340, gt 100g brass insert, 100g gt screw ins fact system, and iron wills 125 wides. 630 grain total foc 22%
i had paper tuned at gulf coast archery before this high foc build and found that everything was way off after the build. simply moving the qad rest left to fix the right paper tear got me pin holes at 15 yards. fletch arrows got me bullseyes. im good with that at 30 yards. elite ritual 33, 60 lbs

Iíd say youíre way underspined unless youíre shooting 55lbs or so. But as long as youíre happy with it...


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Old 11-01-2020, 08:07 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by critter69 View Post
No this was a quote from a previous post, I just ď copiedĒ that part of it and pasted here. Pretty obvious some are using the heavy arrow for the wrong purpose. I donít care what side your on ! And no a bad shot can also be a perfect shot. Some one thinks they ďknowĒ they have a heavy enough arrow, to shoot through that heavy bone. And hits exactly where they intended and the arrow fails, or the arrow and broad head fail. They made a perfect shot, hit right where they wanted, and in no way should they have taken the shot. I donít care what any body shoots, heavy light, or any where in between. You still should wait for a good clean ethical shot. I donít follow the agenda, I shoot a heavy arrow, so I can shoot through bone that a ď lesserĒ arrow wonít get through. Iíve seen javelina stop 1000 gr. with iron wills on more then a few occasions, from a guy and his buddies with the ď adult arrowĒ attitude thinking it will make up for their poor decision attitude. ( 80 lb. hoyt, 30Ē draw, 23% foc and those javelina stopped that arrow several times) They have shot and lost more animals then any body in camp, because they think they can shoot any thing from any angle and it will die. He is on the Africa plan now, he hits it he pays for it. His buddies will be on the same plan this year also, if they come back shooting like they have been. All they talk about is this fairy guy, so we call them all tinker bells. Between them guys last year I think they failed to recover 8 or 9 animals on this one hunt. And they bragged about shooting a few deer and an elk on a hunt they were on also, and they were poor angles and never found them either, but hey they still get to hunt, as they say. Yea, Iíve seen it, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. You can talk about physics and it will do this and that, but in real life ( death) that donít always pan out. In fact many times over Iíve seen it not work, it gives many a false sense in their equipment. Leftist rightest call me what you want, itís not the solution many are thinking it is.

This is complete nonsense, iím just going to leave it there.


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Old 11-02-2020, 06:44 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by quackadikt View Post
Iíd say youíre way underspined unless youíre shooting 55lbs or so. But as long as youíre happy with it...


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i agree and was looking for 300's but like everything else, all sold out and tuff to find
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Old 11-06-2020, 10:12 AM   #158
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My arrow setup did what it was setup for this morning. Headed to the truck for a frame pack and game bags, and Iíll try to update this when I get done breaking him down and on ice.

Shot entered between the shoulder and the spine (2 yard shot from a tree) exited opposite side lower sternum and embedded in opposite leg bone.


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Old 11-06-2020, 03:35 PM   #159
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Letís see if I have the signal for this.

After a week of public land kicking my butt in high temps with bright moons, I decided to take the first buck I could. Had this guy come trotting through at 9:30 this morning. As I mentioned above, the shot was dang near straight down.

First off, I would have never had the confidence with my last setup to take a kill zone shot at this angle. Even taking this shot means my heavy arrow setup did its job in increasing my confidence. The utter destruction it wreaked on this deer was impressive.

It entered at the tip of the backstrap between the shoulder and the spine, breaking the top of the shoulder blade. From there, it came out the opposite side rib cage where it meets the sternum, then broke the leg bone and imbedded in the leg on the way out. If it hadnít hit the leg, it would have been imbedded in the dirt. As it was, he broke the arrow running and I found it about 10 yards from the shot. Deer went down in 45 yards, flipping head over heels. Arrow caught top of left lung, cut the arteries off the top of the heart, and destroyed most of the right lung. I am beyond impressed with its performance.







Last shot is point of impact in reference to me standing on the top of my climbing stick. I had to lean dang near over top of him because the bottom cam of my bow was rubbing the tree.


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Old 11-07-2020, 10:29 AM   #160
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Nice one
Good job
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Old 11-08-2020, 09:39 AM   #161
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I am looking for pig # 11 since season started, opening morning started with a quartering to 140# sow, blew through the shoulder the head exited the guts, but no pass through- 18" of penetration.
The 8 other pigs were passthroughs and one was hard quartering away shot that stopped in the opposite leg bone.
I hit my buck a bit high in the shoulder at a steep angle, the head stopped on the opposite leg bone.

My son is shooting almost the same arrow and got pass throughs on
A big buck 180#ish and a coyote.

My son's bow is a 45# BowTech carbon overdrive 27" draw, I am shooting a 55# xpedition xplorer 28.5" draw.

Arrows 400 spine 40 grain top hats and 85 grain rage ss 1.5" cut. Total weight 383
A well tuned arrow with decent foc is all you need, keep some speed.
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Old 11-08-2020, 09:56 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbd10pt View Post
I am looking for pig # 11 since season started, opening morning started with a quartering to 140# sow, blew through the shoulder the head exited the guts, but no pass through- 18" of penetration.
The 9 other pigs were passthroughs and one was hard quartering away shot that stopped in the opposite leg bone.
I hit my buck a bit high in the shoulder at a steep angle, the head stopped on the opposite leg bone.

My son is shooting almost the same arrow and got pass throughs on
A big buck 180#ish and a coyote.

My son's bow is a 45# BowTech carbon overdrive 27" draw, I am shooting a 55# xpedition xplorer 28.5" draw.

Arrows 400 spine 40 grain top hats and 85 grain rage ss 1.5" cut. Total weight 383
A well tuned arrow with decent foc is all you need, keep some speed.
Congrats, goes to show, shot placement is the most important thing. With out it, it donít mater what you hit um with.
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Old 11-08-2020, 01:20 PM   #163
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Good looking critter Ikeman. Good on you for stepping up the arrow foc.

You got quite the promo LDP with that buck. Ive gotta go back and read to see where your arrow setup ended. After the thread got snarky on page 1 I just skipped to your super happy ending. Hooray!
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Old 11-09-2020, 09:52 PM   #164
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I'd say you're on the right track. I like "heavier" arrows. My set up im shooting right at 550 grains.
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Old 11-10-2020, 09:41 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IkemanTX View Post
Letís see if I have the signal for this.

After a week of public land kicking my butt in high temps with bright moons, I decided to take the first buck I could. Had this guy come trotting through at 9:30 this morning. As I mentioned above, the shot was dang near straight down.

First off, I would have never had the confidence with my last setup to take a kill zone shot at this angle. Even taking this shot means my heavy arrow setup did its job in increasing my confidence. The utter destruction it wreaked on this deer was impressive.

It entered at the tip of the backstrap between the shoulder and the spine, breaking the top of the shoulder blade. From there, it came out the opposite side rib cage where it meets the sternum, then broke the leg bone and imbedded in the leg on the way out. If it hadnít hit the leg, it would have been imbedded in the dirt. As it was, he broke the arrow running and I found it about 10 yards from the shot. Deer went down in 45 yards, flipping head over heels. Arrow caught top of left lung, cut the arteries off the top of the heart, and destroyed most of the right lung. I am beyond impressed with its performance.







Last shot is point of impact in reference to me standing on the top of my climbing stick. I had to lean dang near over top of him because the bottom cam of my bow was rubbing the tree.


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Congrats on the kill!
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Old 11-12-2020, 02:13 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Briar Friar View Post
Good looking critter Ikeman. Good on you for stepping up the arrow foc.

You got quite the promo LDP with that buck. Ive gotta go back and read to see where your arrow setup ended. After the thread got snarky on page 1 I just skipped to your super happy ending. Hooray!

I ended up at 710 grains total with 25.4% foc. Basically it is the 30-30 of the archery world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbd10pt View Post
I am looking for pig # 11 since season started, opening morning started with a quartering to 140# sow, blew through the shoulder the head exited the guts, but no pass through- 18" of penetration.
The 8 other pigs were passthroughs and one was hard quartering away shot that stopped in the opposite leg bone.
I hit my buck a bit high in the shoulder at a steep angle, the head stopped on the opposite leg bone.

My son is shooting almost the same arrow and got pass throughs on
A big buck 180#ish and a coyote.

My son's bow is a 45# BowTech carbon overdrive 27" draw, I am shooting a 55# xpedition xplorer 28.5" draw.

Arrows 400 spine 40 grain top hats and 85 grain rage ss 1.5" cut. Total weight 383
A well tuned arrow with decent foc is all you need, keep some speed.
My longest shot on a deer in the last 5 years of hunting public land has been 22 yards. Daylight movement for mature bucks is in good thick cover, which doesnít leave room for long shots. If I was shooting 45-50 yards, Iíd drop 150-200 grains off the setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by critter69 View Post
Congrats, goes to show, shot placement is the most important thing. With out it, it donít mater what you hit um with.

Shot placement at trigger release doesnít always mean the same thing at impact... deer move. I like having a plan B, C, and D.


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Old 11-13-2020, 03:31 PM   #167
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Arrows 400 spine 40 grain top hats and 85 grain rage ss 1.5" cut. Total weight 383
A well tuned arrow with decent foc is all you need, keep some speed.
My longest shot on a deer in the last 5 years of hunting public land has been 22 yards. Daylight movement for mature bucks is in good thick cover, which doesnít leave room for long shots.

If I was shooting 45-50 yards, Iíd drop 150-200 grains off the setup.

What ? His. Arrow weight now is 383 approx. if he drops 200 gr he would be shooting 183gr. arrows, not sure if itís even possible to go that light. 383 must be plan A, your 183 gr plan b, what do you suggest for plan c and d ?

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Old 11-17-2020, 06:08 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by critter69 View Post
Arrows 400 spine 40 grain top hats and 85 grain rage ss 1.5" cut. Total weight 383

A well tuned arrow with decent foc is all you need, keep some speed.

My longest shot on a deer in the last 5 years of hunting public land has been 22 yards. Daylight movement for mature bucks is in good thick cover, which doesnít leave room for long shots.



If I was shooting 45-50 yards, Iíd drop 150-200 grains off the setup.



What ? His. Arrow weight now is 383 approx. if he drops 200 gr he would be shooting 183gr. arrows, not sure if itís even possible to go that light. 383 must be plan A, your 183 gr plan b, what do you suggest for plan c and d ?
183 grain arrow = dry fire

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Old 03-26-2021, 05:17 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Duckologist View Post
183 grain arrow = dry fire

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Quote:
Originally Posted by critter69 View Post
Arrows 400 spine 40 grain top hats and 85 grain rage ss 1.5" cut. Total weight 383

A well tuned arrow with decent foc is all you need, keep some speed.

My longest shot on a deer in the last 5 years of hunting public land has been 22 yards. Daylight movement for mature bucks is in good thick cover, which doesnít leave room for long shots.



If I was shooting 45-50 yards, Iíd drop 150-200 grains off the setup.



What ? His. Arrow weight now is 383 approx. if he drops 200 gr he would be shooting 183gr. arrows, not sure if itís even possible to go that light. 383 must be plan A, your 183 gr plan b, what do you suggest for plan c and d ?


I just noticed these responses after referring back to this thread to get my grain weight specs.
The ďIíd drop 200 grainsĒ was in response to my personal arrow setup, not the guy who I was quoting. If I were to want to shoot out to 50 yards, I would want to drop 200 grains.... Currently Iím at 710 grains, so that would equal 510ish grains for a longer range setup.
Iím fairly certain that I could pretty easily adjust to2 different arrow weight setups with enough practice and an extra pin or two. Although, with another 6 months of shooting I have a lot more confidence in my heavy setup even at longer range. It may have more drop than a faster arrow, but it is much more consistent shooting than any setup Iíve used before.


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Old 03-27-2021, 04:05 PM   #170
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Love watching Troy's videos. He has so much relevant information for all bowhunters, not just those chasing extreme FOC.
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Old 03-27-2021, 05:47 PM   #171
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I have been shooting right at 640 total arrow weight with 20% FOC for a few years. Completely revolutionary and exactly what the doctor ordered, for my bowhunting situations. Yes, shot placement matters but second guessing on shoulders is eliminated on whitetail/antelope and most critters I have run that arrow thru. The 200 grain single bevel broadhead is worth the investment..........bullet proof and fly true on a properly tuned bow. I let the bowshop clean-up and tune my bow every year as I dont like "little surprises" hunting on the other side of the world...........or 4 hours away at the lease.
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Old 03-31-2021, 02:56 PM   #172
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Thanks to muddyfuzzy, I have an awesome setup. I am shooting Black Eagle Spartans at 29" and 660 gr with and FOC of ~17%. These arrows are flat out killers. Complete pass throughs on everything I have shot with them. I need to run them through a chrono but I am sure I am pushing these somewhere in the vicinity of 250-275 FPS through my D350 set at 72# and 30". I have tried fast arrows and had the scapula stop me a couple of times, never finding the deer. My fault but, if I can increase the odds in my favor by going heavy, I am most definitely doing it!
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Old 03-31-2021, 03:34 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by enewman View Post
what can this be? it must be fake. the deer will be gone before that slow arrow gets to them. hahaha

whats a good icon for sarcasm
purple font.

Normal arrows at normal speeds will kill.
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Old 03-31-2021, 08:07 PM   #174
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purple font.

Normal arrows at normal speeds will kill.
Playing devils advocate here....
Yes normal kills. But what about when you mess up on a shot and hit the leg bone or knuckle, what if you have a situation like me where the deer is quartering away and between her ducking and rolling and you shoot left some and hit her in the back leg

For the record Iím not crazy heavy, 520ish and itís going real fast with 80 lb limbs (was going 280 with 70 lb limbs). But with my 200 gr points Iím 620ish with a lot of weight upfront for the big pigs
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Old 04-06-2021, 04:49 AM   #175
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You guys remind me of the arguments I used to see at the gun shop I worked at for 17 plus years.

Guy walks in and says he needs a good deer rifle. You point him to the wall that has a couple Savage 110 in 30.06. Oh no, he can't hunt with a 30.06 let alone a Savage. He needs something that he can reach out with, like a 243. He needs it to be light and short, feather weight, pencil barrel and 18 inches.
Sheesh

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Old 04-06-2021, 04:57 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by boonez40 View Post
You guys remind me of the arguments I used to see at the gun shop I worked at for 17 plus years.

Guy walks in and says he needs a good deer rifle. You point him to the wall that has a couple Savage 110 in 30.06. Oh no, he can't hunt with a 30.06 let alone a Savage. He needs something that he can reach out with, like a 243. He needs it to be light and short, feather weight, pencil barrel and 18 inches.
Sheesh

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Very informative, thanks

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Old 04-06-2021, 06:28 AM   #177
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Adult arrows deserve adult broadheads, 750 gr. Over 50% foc.

https://www.missouriwhitetails.com/a...14-jpg.218856/
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Old 04-06-2021, 09:53 AM   #178
boonez40
Nubbin' Buck
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckologist View Post
Very informative, thanks

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You are welcome,

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Old 05-01-2021, 05:45 AM   #179
hpdrifter
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: kerens
Hunt In: anywhere I can
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[QUOTE=kd350;15549062]Playing devils advocate here....
Yes normal kills. But what about when you mess up on a shot and hit the leg bone or knuckle, what if you have a situation like me where the deer is quartering away and between her ducking and rolling and you shoot left some and hit her in the back leg

For the record Iím not crazy heavy, 520ish and itís going real fast with 80 lb limbs (was going 280 with 70 lb limbs). But with my 200 gr points Iím 620ish with a lot of weight upfront for the big pigs[/QUObunch of what ifs in this world. can't cover them all.

If I were shooting at that quartering away ducking and rolling deer, it'd be a clean miss. My little ole 180 fps recurve would be completely eluded.

I don't even know what my POC arrows weigh.
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