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Old 08-05-2022, 07:00 PM   #1
OldRiverRat
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Default Alto football 2 year suspension

Man what a shame for those boys. This is hard to accept on any level

HIGH SCHOOLUIL Suspends Football Team for 2 Yearsby TexasHSFootball.com August 5
A UIL committee decided in a meeting this week to place the Alto ISD high school football program on a two-year postseason suspension. The suspension will also make any Alto ISD football player ineligible for any UIL or UIL-sponsored awards and honors. (It will not make them ineligible for any of our awards or rankings)

The issue is that the Alto ISD had an administrative error in the reporting of their enrollment by three students. The reported enrollment placed Alto ISD in 2A Division II. However, with the actual enrollment number, being just three students fewer, they should have been placed in 2A Division I.

Alto ISD is not being accused of any intentional wrongdoing. The issue is that they reported their official number of enrolled students, per their policies. However, there were three students that had begun attending school in late October but were not counted as official enrollees until the first of the next month, less than two weeks later. Therefore, the enrollment number was inaccurate for 12 days.

The decision has brought outcry by the Alto IDS football community, and even some of their football rivals, that feel that the players should not be punished for what is by all accounts an honest administrative error. From the UIL perspective, they have to draw enrollment number lines somewhere as a measure of creating competitive balance. It is too close to the start of the football season to rearrange any schedules. However, the question remains, should the error lead to a postseason suspension of two years? Let us know below:


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Old 08-05-2022, 07:19 PM   #2
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Wow. Saw it on smoaky but didn't think they would punish the whole team. I kinda smell bs with the 3 kids not being counted. Had it not threw them in a whole different division I cam see it but let's be real.
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Old 08-05-2022, 07:20 PM   #3
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That’s terrible
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Old 08-05-2022, 07:28 PM   #4
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The correct number of students should've been declared by the last Friday in October and, if done right, would've moved Alto into a smaller UIL division. Technically, they are disqualified in all sporting events, not just football. I'm sure Alto has appealed this decision, correct?
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Old 08-05-2022, 07:31 PM   #5
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Why has everyone lost their mind? Common sense is as rare as the white Jeep, black panther and Bigfoot.
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Old 08-05-2022, 07:33 PM   #6
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That's bull ship. I feel sorry for these kids. But rules are rules. I'm sure they aren't the only school to fudge the numbers.

Last edited by brokeno; 08-05-2022 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 08-05-2022, 07:35 PM   #7
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If a decision has the letters TEA or UIL attached to it then it is probably a shatshow. Bunch of morons.
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Old 08-05-2022, 07:40 PM   #8
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UIL at its finest!
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Old 08-05-2022, 07:50 PM   #9
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Itís a horrible decision
You donít punish the kids, you punish whomever made the mistake whether inadvertently or on purpose. Itís incompetence on the part of administration not the athletes


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Old 08-05-2022, 07:55 PM   #10
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Morons run the Texas school systems.

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Old 08-05-2022, 08:10 PM   #11
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Suspend the guy that turned in the numbers, not the innocent kids fault. This is a bad ruling by the UIL.
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Old 08-05-2022, 08:17 PM   #12
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Am I the only one that thinks that there has to be more to the story?

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Old 08-05-2022, 08:18 PM   #13
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Am I the only one that thinks that there has to be more to the story?

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I agree. Something ain't adding up.
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Old 08-05-2022, 08:20 PM   #14
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Suspend the guy that turned in the numbers, not the innocent kids fault. This is a bad ruling by the UIL.
It's the PEIMS coordinator for the district, unrelated to UIL.
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Old 08-05-2022, 08:32 PM   #15
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The correct number of students should've been declared by the last Friday in October and, if done right, would've moved Alto into a smaller UIL division. Technically, they are disqualified in all sporting events, not just football. I'm sure Alto has appealed this decision, correct?
A smaller division with more students? I think that is backwards. It would have moved them from 2A Division II to 2A Division !. They would have been playing 2A schools with more students (I) than less (II).
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Old 08-05-2022, 08:34 PM   #16
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With all the helicopter parents associated with their kids sports it was only a matter of time before it was discovered.
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Old 08-05-2022, 08:40 PM   #17
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https://www.uiltexas.org/files/media..._pm_Audio2.m4a

If anyone wants to listen to the meeting.
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Old 08-05-2022, 08:41 PM   #18
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I agree. Something ain't adding up.
Yeah, the enrollment.
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Old 08-05-2022, 08:52 PM   #19
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If you only punish the administration nothing changes. Slaps on the hands for the adults is an oh well in their eyes. Unfortunately when it affects the kids people like us want stonings in the town square and something done about it. The enrollment fudging has been around for decades. Probably more prominent in the smaller districts/regions where the difference between 1A/2A/3A means the difference in district if not state championship implications.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:34 PM   #20
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Good for uil! They are the first and may be last to do that on purpose! So much money lost
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:35 PM   #21
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What money?
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:46 PM   #22
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Chew will be along shortly with his condolences
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:47 PM   #23
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I listened to parts of the audio.

The UIL rules (and Alto was represented at the hearing) say that a team to have incorrect numbers that places them in a lower district for their size, makes them ineligible for post season and honors. That was not even up for a vote, itís just the rule. From the audio it sound like it was an automatic rule that bans Alto from qualifyiy for honors/post season.

People have commented about it being unfair to Alto students however is it also unfair to the schools in the other Districts? What do you tell the team in Altoís current (and incorrect) district? Iím sorry and you should have made the playoffs this year but another team fudged their numbers and should not even be in this district but oh well? The school being bumped unfairly out of the playoffs didnít make the mistake.

Also from the audio it was not just technically because a violation was made and Alto as being punished. The problem is that the districts have been realigned, teams have already scheduled their games for the year and the actual football season starts in about two weeks.

As mentioned earlier, Alto is not allowed by rule to compete in the lower district. There was no vote taken because it was simply a rule violation and automatic.

The vote was that it was too late in the year to reschedule the 2022 football season which starts in two weeks and even with the first scrimmages are next Friday. Do you take all of the teams in two different districts and say Iím sorry but Alto screwed up so throw out all of your schedule and start over and you have two weeks to settle it? No.

The two-year suspension against postseason play and honors is again only because it is a UIL violation to play in a lower district because of the incorrect numbers. Again, that was not even up for a vote so next year season just like this year, Alto would still be in the wrong district.

Alto has another option to play in the second year however. The UIL committee did not ban Alto in the second year. They cannot qualify next year if they stay in this incorrect district.

By the UIL rules, they could move back up into Division 1 where they should be next year because they will have time to make a new schedule. The UIL cannot by rule realign the districts. Alto however can seek to join another district who can voluntarily accept them. It requires however that the district committees from both districts (the one they are leaving and the one they would be going to) to agree unanimously with the change. The UIL doesnít care which district and said Alto could join any other Division 1 District in the region. Alto has to get each member from both affected districts to agree.

So:
1. Alto made a mistake that put them in a lower division than they should have been. Under oath Alto admitted the mistake and by UIL rules they cannot qualify for postseason or honors in that lower division.

2. The committee voted that there was not enough time with only two weeks to go, to throw two different districtsí schedules out and start over.

3. The UIL committee did not ban Alto from postseason play next year but again, the UIL rules say that they cannot play out of division. The rules keep them from competing for post season, not the committee. What happens if Alto makes the playoffs in their current and improper district? Do you tell the fourth place team, sorry but you qualified for post season however since a higher division school fudged their numbers, youíre not allowed to move forward?

What happens if Alto wins state? The 2A Division 2 champion is a 2A Division 1 school?

4. Alto can seek any other 2A Division 1 school in that region to accept them for next year. That requires a unanimous decision of each school in the current district and from the potential new district.


Also it sounded like from the vote that Alto was only banned from football. I did not feel like going back to listen to that part of the audio again
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:57 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by OldRiverRat View Post
Man what a shame for those boys. This is hard to accept on any level

HIGH SCHOOLUIL Suspends Football Team for 2 Yearsby TexasHSFootball.com August 5
A UIL committee decided in a meeting this week to place the Alto ISD high school football program on a two-year postseason suspension. The suspension will also make any Alto ISD football player ineligible for any UIL or UIL-sponsored awards and honors. (It will not make them ineligible for any of our awards or rankings)
According to what I listen to, that is not correct. The committee did not even vote to suspend them from postseason play for two years but the UIL rules require the ban IF they stay in Division 2.

Quote:
The issue is that the Alto ISD had an administrative error in the reporting of their enrollment by three students. The reported enrollment placed Alto ISD in 2A Division II. However, with the actual enrollment number, being just three students fewer, they should have been placed in 2A Division I.

Alto ISD is not being accused of any intentional wrongdoing. The issue is that they reported their official number of enrolled students, per their policies. However, there were three students that had begun attending school in late October but were not counted as official enrollees until the first of the next month, less than two weeks later. Therefore, the enrollment number was inaccurate for 12 days.

The decision has brought outcry by the Alto IDS football community, and even some of their football rivals, that feel that the players should not be punished for what is by all accounts an honest administrative error. From the UIL perspective, they have to draw enrollment number lines somewhere as a measure of creating competitive balance. It is too close to the start of the football season to rearrange any schedules. However, the question remains, should the error lead to a postseason suspension of two years? Let us know below:
That is exactly what I listened to on the audio. It was too late in the year when it was discovered to realign the districts and throw everybodyís schedule out the window. Again, it is not a two-year suspension and in fact the committee did not vote to suspend Alto. According to what I heard in the hearing, the rules and not the committee say that a school could not play in a lower division because of improperly submitted numbers.
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Old 08-06-2022, 06:17 AM   #25
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It sucks for them (Alto), but it sucks worse for the team(s) that got cheated out of a playoff berth because of Alto's error (accidental or not). No sympathy here......
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Old 08-06-2022, 09:17 AM   #26
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That's bull ship. I feel sorry for these kids. But rules are rules. I'm sure they aren't the only school to fudge the numbers.
This!
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Old 08-06-2022, 09:39 AM   #27
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Sucks for the kids, but yes, there should be punishment.

Last edited by Rubi513; 08-06-2022 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 08-06-2022, 10:04 AM   #28
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I know they screwed a few teams out of the playoffs every year by being in Division 2. Teams that would have otherwise been state bound. I hate it for the kids but something had to be done.
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Old 08-06-2022, 10:38 AM   #29
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Ok so instead of a bad decision itís a horrible rule

These kids can never get this back. All you guys that complained about Covid shutting down sports, itís the same thing. The kids have nothing to do with what took place and they are the ones being punished.


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Old 08-06-2022, 11:37 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by OldRiverRat View Post
Ok so instead of a bad decision itís a horrible rule

These kids can never get this back. All you guys that complained about Covid shutting down sports, itís the same thing. The kids have nothing to do with what took place and they are the ones being punished.


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So do you punish the kids from the other school that would be kicked out of the playoffs whose school did nothing wrong?
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Old 08-06-2022, 11:41 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldRiverRat View Post
Ok so instead of a bad decision itís a horrible rule

These kids can never get this back. All you guys that complained about Covid shutting down sports, itís the same thing. The kids have nothing to do with what took place and they are the ones being punished.


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Not the same.
One was political overreach and the other is a school that cheated so they wouldnít have to play tougher competition.
Sucks for the Alto kids, but itís fair for kids that actually belong in that division.
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Old 08-06-2022, 11:42 AM   #32
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So do you punish the kids from the other school that would be kicked out of the playoffs whose school did nothing wrong?
Exactly. You can't punish those other schools. It's called, the way it is.
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Old 08-06-2022, 12:30 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldRiverRat View Post
Ok so instead of a bad decision it’s a horrible rule

These kids can never get this back. All you guys that complained about Covid shutting down sports, it’s the same thing. The kids have nothing to do with what took place and they are the ones being punished.


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Not even close to the same thing. The Alto kids still get to play football. They just don't get to compete in the playoffs with the schools who are technically outside of their division. So, they play their schedule, but their record is essentially expunged. To the other teams in their district, their game with Alto will be considered a non-district game, the way I understand it.

I'm sure the folks in charge of reporting enrollment were well aware of how close they were to qualifying for one division or the other. Knowing so, their records should have been beyond reproach.

Last edited by Duane; 08-06-2022 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 08-06-2022, 12:58 PM   #34
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By God....we will teach those kids!!!



Oh wait............
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Old 08-06-2022, 01:07 PM   #35
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The worst of bureaucracy.
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Old 08-06-2022, 02:50 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by RascalArms View Post
By God....we will teach those kids!!!



Oh wait............

No doubt

Why did it take until the month before season to make this ruling before itís too late to find a solution? They just now figured this out? Doesnít matter how you slice this itís the kids that played zero role in the error and are being punished

Why not just have the state withhold some funds? Then you literally punish the whole district Not just the kids that go the extra mile


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Old 08-06-2022, 03:46 PM   #37
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No doubt

Why did it take until the month before season to make this ruling before itís too late to find a solution? They just now figured this out? Doesnít matter how you slice this itís the kids that played zero role in the error and are being punished

Why not just have the state withhold some funds? Then you literally punish the whole district Not just the kids that go the extra mile


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You are missing the whole point of the other kids being punished by being in the correct divisionÖ
Is Alto ranked in the top of that division?
Are you somehow affiliated with Alto?
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