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Old 08-05-2022, 08:51 AM   #1
Gclyde28
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Default Sales Tax vs Property Taxes

I hate taxes as much as the next person but also realize they are a necessary evil. What I hate the most is property taxes. You can never pay everything off and have your living expenses be ďfreeĒ minus your utilities.

I wonder what percentage sales tax would have to increase to offset property taxes? Yíall got any other ways to offset property taxes without going to state income tax?
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Old 08-05-2022, 08:54 AM   #2
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Consumption tax would be best.


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Old 08-05-2022, 08:56 AM   #3
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Consumption tax would be best.


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This ! I would love to see property tax disappear. Sales tax etc would be worth it.
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Old 08-05-2022, 08:57 AM   #4
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Consumption tax would be best.


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I agree completely! Then illegals and the ultra rich would pay their share instead of us footing the bill for them all.




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Old 08-05-2022, 09:05 AM   #5
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I just did some quick googling. I don't think sales tax would even have to double to cover the revenue the state generates from property taxes. It might be close to doubling but I would pay 15% sales tax all day long to not have to pay property taxes.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:07 AM   #6
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From what I understand there is volatility in sales tax due to ever-changing markets.

Inconsistent increases and decreases in consumer demand make it a nonviable option.

Income tax is unconstitutional in the state of Texas and I don't feel that will ever be changed.

I don't know a better way than property tax but I feel there is one out there.
The property tax system was designed in the 70's when values were substantially lower. I do not feel it was designed for the current market that we are seeing.

The only way I know to give relief to the average homeowner is to create a much larger homestead exemption amount. This would shift the tax burden to mostly the commercial industries. ie Oil & gas, utilities, industrial properties, railroads, pipelines, etc etc.

I feel this would still catch up with the homeowner due to higher consumer prices when the commercial industries shift this burden back to their customers.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:07 AM   #7
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I agree. Was just having this conversation yesterday.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:08 AM   #8
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I read the Fair Tax by Neil Boortz a few years back. His studies indicate a consumption tax of 21-23% would be needed to abolish all other tax forms. I'd do it even at that rate. All the other taxes removed would more than make up the difference. The tax would be on new item purchases only with almost no exemptions.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:14 AM   #9
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From what I understand there is volatility in sales tax due to ever-changing markets.

Inconsistent increases and decreases in consumer demand make it a nonviable option.

Income tax is unconstitutional in the state of Texas and I don't feel that will ever be changed.

I don't know a better way than property tax but I feel there is one out there.
The property tax system was designed in the 70's when values were substantially lower. I do not feel it was designed for the current market that we are seeing.

The only way I know to give relief to the average homeowner is to create a much larger homestead exemption amount. This would shift the tax burden to mostly the commercial industries. ie Oil & gas, utilities, industrial properties, railroads, pipelines, etc etc.

I feel this would still catch up with the homeowner due to higher consumer prices when the commercial industries shift this burden back to their customers.
I understand the volatility in consumer consumption but I'd even agree to a percentage point or two higher to offset that volatility. I've done the math on how much **** I'd have to buy every year to pay as much as I do in property taxes in additional sales tax. I don't even make that amount of money every year before taxes.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:14 AM   #10
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I think if we knew what we were really paying in taxes we’d revolt. Between property, sales, federal, inspections, etc, etc, it’s pretty scared to think how many ways they are robbing us.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:18 AM   #11
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Our county adds hundreds of homes a year to the tax rolls. Those homes are built on previous tax exempt land. This adds considerable money to the coffers and our officials never consider lowering the tax rate.
I have seen many of our elderly lose their homesteads over property taxes. It is sad to see 70, 80, and 90 year old folks still having to pay school taxes.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:21 AM   #12
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I think if we knew what we were really paying in taxes weíd revolt. Between property, sales, federal, inspections, etc, etc, itís pretty scared to think how many ways they are robbing us.
And a lot of other taxes disguised as fees. Health Permits for restaurants are based on gross sales. That is a tax, not a fee. A lot of building permits are issued and priced on total cost of project. Another tax, not a fee. And it goes on and on and on.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:28 AM   #13
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Consumption tax would be best.


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Agree. I bought this land and built the house myself to save money and reduce the amount of money I would need in case something catastrophic happens, whether its health issue, economic or due to the specific industry I am in. It was a great plan until property values skyrocketed and now my property taxes are almost $6000/yr. No matter how I reduce consumption, lower costs etc, it is completely out of my control, if I cant make enough to eat plus $6000/yr, I will be homeless.

Sure, its fine right now, Im making money, but what happens when Im 70yo and cant work? Or an accident cripples me, or cancer hits like it does almost everyone in my family?
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:28 AM   #14
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It's really going to come to a head in 20-40 when the people with no retirement/pensions look at having yearly property taxes on the homes they have paid for exceed their social security.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:30 AM   #15
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And a lot of other taxes disguised as fees. Health Permits for restaurants are based on gross sales. That is a tax, not a fee. A lot of building permits are issued and priced on total cost of project. Another tax, not a fee. And it goes on and on and on.
Yep, when you start and build a business you REALLY get to see how much we pay in taxes. And for nonbusiness owners, guess who really pays for it in the end?
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:32 AM   #16
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I have a bigger issue with FICA & SS
There’s better ROIs then those
At least with my property at times it’s disputable & you have some control and it’s tangible to enjoy
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:32 AM   #17
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It's really going to come to a head in 20-40 when the people with no retirement/pensions look at having yearly property taxes on the homes they have paid for exceed their social security.
Exactly. Even with savings, when you are no longer making money, $6k or $10k or whatever really is a lot of money. Year after year. Just to be able to KEEP what you already "own"
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:34 AM   #18
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It's really going to come to a head in 20-40 when the people with no retirement/pensions look at having yearly property taxes on the homes they have paid for exceed their social security.
Exactly
The real estate market boost has driven tax value & insurance coverage up
That fixed SS income will struggle to keep up
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Old 08-05-2022, 10:05 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Gclyde28 View Post
I hate taxes as much as the next person but also realize they are a necessary evil. What I hate the most is property taxes. You can never pay everything off and have your living expenses be ďfreeĒ minus your utilities.

I wonder what percentage sales tax would have to increase to offset property taxes? Yíall got any other ways to offset property taxes without going to state income tax?
I think you answer your own question.

Does anyone not understand they don't want you to be free? Zero chance they'd allow us to pay off property AND choose to live off our own land/be cheap etc. and pay less in taxes.
If they did a sales tax people would be able to choose that option.
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Old 08-05-2022, 10:10 AM   #20
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I understand the volatility in consumer consumption but I'd even agree to a percentage point or two higher to offset that volatility. I've done the math on how much **** I'd have to buy every year to pay as much as I do in property taxes in additional sales tax. I don't even make that amount of money every year before taxes.
LOL - I'm sure they would keep that 1-2% buffer in an account and not use it until it's really needed

Has any government agency ever said they have enough money so they don't need more?

Need to force them to focus on wasted spending IMO
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Old 08-05-2022, 10:18 AM   #21
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Wait, wait, wait.. if you don't work and pay taxes on everything you own, where is the money going to come from to feed those that don't or can't work?
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Old 08-05-2022, 10:21 AM   #22
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Control spending, stop pension/medical for politicians, increase sales tax, make churches pay their fair share and minimize tax deductions for corporations.
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Old 08-05-2022, 10:22 AM   #23
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We'd wind up with a consumption tax AND more taxes in less that five years. To think they'd trade the current system for anything is a pipe dream. The government is a master at the fiscal shell game.
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Old 08-05-2022, 10:36 AM   #24
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Don't get me started on cell phone taxes. 20+% !!!
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Old 08-05-2022, 10:47 AM   #25
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, where is the money going to come from to feed those that don't or wonít work?
Fify
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Old 08-05-2022, 11:26 AM   #26
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A $300K house on $3,000,000 worth of agland is far cheaper on taxes than a $3,000,000 house on a $300K lot. One is $6k a year in taxes, the other is $60K/year...

If it were to change to a sales tax I might do lot and block.
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Old 08-05-2022, 11:46 AM   #27
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Control spending, stop pension/medical for politicians, increase sales tax, make churches pay their fair share and minimize tax deductions for corporations.
What does this mean?
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Old 08-05-2022, 12:05 PM   #28
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Our county adds hundreds of homes a year to the tax rolls. Those homes are built on previous tax exempt land. This adds considerable money to the coffers and our officials never consider lowering the tax rate.
I have seen many of our elderly lose their homesteads over property taxes. It is sad to see 70, 80, and 90 year old folks still having to pay school taxes.
My home tax went down 66% when I hit 65...
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Old 08-05-2022, 12:18 PM   #29
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i'd be all for eliminating all forms of tax in favor of a single consumption tax, but i don't trust the govt to follow the supposed law. they'd write exceptions and special circumstances until we're back to an incomprehensible mess just like we have now. if the tax code was simple they wouldn't be able to investigate us for no reason when they need to bring the power of the govt on us.

it would have to be a federal Constitutional amendment and even then they'd probably just try and redefine words to get what they want in the end. like how they're trying to redefine "recession" and "woman".

all that said, we need school choice vouchers. fund students not systems
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Old 08-05-2022, 12:19 PM   #30
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The problem i see with consumption tax, is everyone would just start buying/ordering what they need (non perishables) from states with a lower tax rate.
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Old 08-05-2022, 12:25 PM   #31
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What does this mean?
They are exempt from property & federal taxes.
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Old 08-05-2022, 02:08 PM   #32
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Consumption tax would be best.


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Agreed! But it would be too simple and fair, then the government would not be able to screw you.
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Old 08-05-2022, 02:20 PM   #33
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The problem i see with consumption tax, is everyone would just start buying/ordering what they need (non perishables) from states with a lower tax rate.

Would be no different than buying from places like Amazon now. You still pay Texas sales tax.


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Old 08-05-2022, 02:28 PM   #34
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at and 8% sales tax rate and that sales tax being applied to everything i bought (no exemptions). i would have to buy about $800,000 in taxable consumer goods to make up the difference if property taxes were eliminated.

would land and home sales become sales taxed under the fair\consumption tax while doing away with property taxes?
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Old 08-05-2022, 02:35 PM   #35
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Property tax is the worth thing about Texas. It’s bull **** to the 1000th degree. Like mentioned already you never own your home in Tx. You can and many have been taxed out of their homes in Tx and it seems like there is no stopping these taxing entities from doing as they please. That’s one reason why people who don’t own anything should not be allowed to vote on propositions that will raise property taxes.
No one should be paying more than 5 k in property tax and the taxing entities need to learn to spend wisely
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Old 08-05-2022, 02:36 PM   #36
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I guess home sales would start being taxes as a sale at time of purchase....
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Old 08-05-2022, 04:27 PM   #37
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I saw some guys complaining on another forum about $1000/year property taxes on each vehicle and boat they own. I believe they were in South Carolina. Thank goodness we don’t have that level of taxation here.

As for the Property vs. Sales Tax, I’m a fan of the sales tax over the current system. But don’t see it changing. Hard to change the take it from him and give it to me system when they take it from everyone in a consumptive tax environment. In addition, Politicians loose power when they can can’t offer tax breaks or loopholes. I believe that will keep a consumption tax from ever seeing the light of day.
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Old 08-05-2022, 04:38 PM   #38
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I saw some guys complaining on another forum about $1000/year property taxes on each vehicle and boat they own. I believe they were in South Carolina. Thank goodness we donít have that level of taxation here.

As for the Property vs. Sales Tax, Iím a fan of the sales tax over the current system. But donít see it changing. Hard to change the take it from him and give it to me system when they take it from everyone in a consumptive tax environment. In addition, Politicians loose power when they can canít offer tax breaks or loopholes. I believe that will keep a consumption tax from ever seeing the light of day.
My uncle in Gillespie county got taxed on a model T he had in his shop the tax man saw through a window. I got taxed on an enclosed trailer I happened to have a business name on the side of. They get us one way or the other
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Old 08-05-2022, 06:33 PM   #39
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Property tax is the worth thing about Texas. Itís bull **** to the 1000th degree. Like mentioned already you never own your home in Tx. You can and many have been taxed out of their homes in Tx and it seems like there is no stopping these taxing entities from doing as they please. Thatís one reason why people who donít own anything should not be allowed to vote on propositions that will raise property taxes.
No one should be paying more than 5 k in property tax and the taxing entities need to learn to spend wisely
At the very least when you buy a house or land the value it's worth at that time should be what you're taxed on as long as you own it.

I don't get the used car tax. Every time a car changes hands they get to re-tax it. That's flat robbery.
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Old 08-05-2022, 06:44 PM   #40
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At the very least when you buy a house or land the value it's worth at that time should be what you're taxed on as long as you own it.

I don't get the used car tax. Every time a car changes hands they get to re-tax it. That's flat robbery.
I ageee to a point that at a minimum it stays at the rate it was when you bought it. Problem is that might be 1k a month or more and I really donít care how wealthy a person is they should not be paying some dang ISD and county that kind of money for ever. My wifeís grand parents built a house on lake LBJ back in the early 70ís and today it would cost us 12500 a year to keep it. Thatís horse hock. I looked up a few older homes in horse shoe bay to compare and this little house on the water was taxed over 70k a year because they had its tax valuation at 2million. 40+k a year to Llano ISD. Just not right
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Old 08-05-2022, 06:49 PM   #41
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At the very least when you buy a house or land the value it's worth at that time should be what you're taxed on as long as you own it.

I don't get the used car tax. Every time a car changes hands they get to re-tax it. That's flat robbery.
And regardless of what you paid for it ( after all, sales tax is supposed to be based on sales price ), THEY decide what it is worth. Not what you paid. Absolutely despicable
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Old 08-05-2022, 06:57 PM   #42
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If you do away with property taxes how do you fund your cities, schools, counties, fire districts etc? Most politicians who want this are liberals who want to control what they send these entities not what they actually need. In other words, More big brother not less.
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