School security

[Olphart]

I see these horrible incidents as a product of people that have had little guidance or other discipline for everyday events at home or school. Add the lack of love and they are left to hate any and all authority figures. This sick kid (18) had to have a terrible upbringing by his parent(s) and/or grandparents since he was living with the latter, and he shot his grandmother before going to the school. He even posted on a social crap site about his threats, and recipients thought he was bluffing/boasting, so they did nothing.

As a former officer, I've seen parents bring up their kids as heathens, protect and demand proof they did something wrong or even tell them they did good by stealing from others and not get caught. When they mouthed off to school officials or cops, the parents denied junior did wrong and it must have been provoked by the authority figure. I was no angel growing up but if I misbehaved, skipped school, or just didn't treat others with respect, I knew that anything the school did to me for discipline was nothing compared to what I would get when I got home.

The weapon used in this isn't the problem. Teaching and holding children to doing the right thing wasn't done prior to this incident and likely others prior. I will never understand taking personal problems out on innocent kids and teachers, or anybody else for that matter. Death by cop was his only way to end his demons.

[Grant2]

Originally Posted by brrdnk

I agree same security as congress. We all know that won’t happen. I believe us Dads, citizens, should volunteer to stand watch at your local school. Background checks, training, but armed. I know I would volunteer a day or two a month or even more if that’s what it took. It’s going to start with us to make a difference and get politics out of it.

This always sounds good until someone is shot or a stray bullet hits the wrong person then the lawsuits start. You have to remember they are letting criminals out that have a murder charge and people getting in lawsuits because someone broke into there house and shot the bad guy. Today’s world is not the same the criminal has more rights then you.

[Hardware]

Why is it that no one talks about mental health since it's the one common denominator in all mass shootings? If you were off you rocker, unstable and posed a threat to society more than likely you were placed in an institution. This has all changed in the last 40 or so years and now most of the mental institutions have closed down. Instead now we medicate these people and allow them to walk around society hoping they take the medication and stay stable. The ACLU has fought for their rights so they have a choice to not be committed or take medicine so they have psychotic episodes in a public setting. Add the societal erosion of morals in the same period and the lack of respect for others and it's a scary outlook for our future.

You'll never stop pure evil in this world!!

Best we can do is get back to God, Family, Country/Patriotism and strong moral teachings for all in society. Stop being Reactive and start being Proactive so when we see signs years before someone acts we take action.

[HogHunter34]

^^^ I certainly understand the mental health side is another factor. My dad worked for a mental health facility & there were many cases of bipolar & schizophrenic patients
However the biggest challenge is who can actually predict a person could carry out such an act? How much circumstantial or profiling evidence is enough to detain or lock someone up? Sure if they blatantly post their threat that’s the obvious but the subtle signs are hard to filter out in society. Just because someone looks or acts different doesn’t always equal evil doers
And exactly what level of mental health classifies as a red flag to take action? Anxiety? Depression? Bipolar?
Some folks just snap due to major life upsets
I worked with a lady who’s nephew experienced a rocky marriage when his wife cheated on him. He wanted to meet with her to discuss separation & child custody. Ended up killing her & took his own life
Everyone in their family was in utter shock he would ever do such a thing

[Razorback01]

Originally Posted by SCREAMINREELS

Look up watchdogs.

Our school has a program called watchdogs and it’s actually a nationally recognized program. Being armed is not part of it but among other things keeping an eye on the campus is. Multiple dads there every day for this exact reason.

This the the program that was referenced, Watch D.O.G.S.

https://dadsofgreatstudents.com/

[rjtkdplus]

From a friend of mine


HOW TO STOP SCHOOL SHOOTINGS: FROM A SECURITY EXPERT- by Drew Arthur

I have been reading and listening to knee jerk opinions full of emotion and advice how to solve the school shootings.

Anyone who says gun control is the way- doesn’t know anything about what works in security ans what does not work - that simple and they aren’t security experts


The problem is the folks I have heard from are not source security experts. True security experts are far and few.

I am one of those experts. I attended and passed the best U.S. Federal Security programs, training, and test at the Federal Law Enforcement Academy. I worked for 20 years as a Deputy U.S. Marshal. I worked as a Judicial Security Inspector (Protecting U.S.Federal Court Houses, and U.S. Federal Judges). In 2005 we have a tragic county courthouse shooting. I was requested to write site security assessments for the court house and several other county facilities. I did, and I wrote more for other courthouses and have taught how to make a family safe.

Pointing fingers at the gun is wrong. Guns are against the law in Mexico, but, last year more folks were killed in Mexico by these non-existent and outlawed guns, than the deaths by guns in Afghanistan.

Closer to home there has been an experiment going on in the huge city of Chicago, Illinois. Some of the countries toughest gun laws. Chicago constantly leads the country in huge numbers of murders by the non- existent guns that have been outlawed.

GUN CONTROL DOES NOT WORK ANYMORE THAN TAKING CARS AWAY FROM SOBER DRIVERS TO STOP DRUNK DRIVING WOULD WORK.

This is emotional knee jerk opinions by well meaning folks who do not truly understand a field they do not have expertise in.

WHAT WILL GIVE SCHOOLS SECURITY?

The answer is paying for the proper level of security to protect the children.

How to pay for it? That’s the question. Citizens do not want to pay higher taxes.

Municipalities, counties, the state, and federal government could all share in the cost.
Folks use half cent bonds to pay for firehouses. I think between all mentioned entities the schools can be funded for the proper level of security.

THE MECHANICS? HOW DO WE MAKE THE SCHOOLS SAFE.

HARD TARGET: The schools need to be a hard target to enter.

Doors: There needs to be one entrance way into the schools. All doors should have emergency push bars to exit only in case of fire or emergency.

School Resource Officers (School Police), and School Security Guards should patrol the schools, watch the monitors of all the cameras, check back packs, etc.

FENCING: There should be fences around the facility, with remote electric entrance and electric locking capabilities. 8 foot and climbing resistant with concertina wire on top. The fence will be around the parking lot and school.

All class rooms should have a tough locking system for students to shelter in place.and a bullet resistant, tornado resistant sheltering in -place portable room - they already have it- are the kids worth it? Yes.

Offer young law enforcement officers to live in a temp mobile home, free utilities and no rent on campus. Cover all shifts

TEACHERS:
All teachers and administration employees who want to carry a concealed weapon should be allowed to. They should have to qualify, and attend stop the shooter quarterly drills with the school resource officers and security officers.

TROUBLED STUDENTS:
Students who have violent tendencies, or have had violent arrest, should be a one school for students with these problems.

There are more things that can be done.

But, the problem is that folks want to blame everyone else, guns, 2nd amendment, etc. They don’t want to really fortify the schools, and provide true armed protection to save the children.

If police (enough to cover the campus) are not present on the campus they can only respond after a tragedy occurs.

If the campus in open, doors unlocked, and no bag checks, no officers, no armed teachers and administration, no fences, no security cameras, only one entrance, then there is no security.

You can take everyone’s guns, baseball bats, kitchen knives, and bad players will show up with them because it is like shooting fish in a barrel.THE KILLING ZONE IS GUN FREE ZONES.

Like the federal court houses , must have an ID, and walk through a metal detector, and everything goes through an x- ray machine . Have law enforcement there doing the screening.

If you live and want to protect your greatest resource, and investment in America’s future, spend the money and make the facility a hard target, one that a would be attacked will immediately fail when they try to enter the facility?

Armed security protects celebrities, banks, courts, jewelry stores, sporting events, and even anti gun celebrities and anti gun politicians.

SHOULDN’T YOUR CHILDREN HAVE THE SAME PROTECTION, AREN’T THEY AS IMPORTANT?

PAY FOR PROPER SECURITY AND MAKE IT A HARD TARGET.

This is the only way to stop violent perpetrators.

About the author: Drew was a U.S. Marine Infantryman/Military Police Officer, U.S. Army Infantryman, Municipal Police Officer, Deputy U.S. Marshal / Federal Criminal Investigator/ Senior Judicial Security Inspector (Ret). Drew holds Black Belts in Relson Gracie JiuJitsu, Judo, Japanese JuJitsu, Karate, Krav Maga, and is a certified instructor in Muay Thai.

He can be contacted (903)-509-1662— gracietyler.com

Thank you

Drew Arthur


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[brokeno]

No matter how good your safety system is hard to have something in place to stop every scenario. Too many people with mental illiness out there that need to be locked up in an institution. We have a sign posted at our school that stats that our teachers are armed and trained to protect our children. The same thing at the church I attend and have a security plan which I am part of. Our main objective is to eliminate the threat. We carry pistols and if a shooter comes in with ar 15 and clips of ammo we are definately going to be out gunned but that's what we volunteered to do. Hopefully it will never come to this but in today's sick society it may. I can't imagine the pain these families are going through now and for those that thought they were doing the right thing and it wasn't. I'm sure none of the people in charge thought the outcome would be how it turned out. Instead of crucifying all those involved in the decisions that were made we need to be praying for them. I can't imagine how they must feel now. And lastly, How safe is your workplace if some sick mental idiot entered your workplace with bullets flying.

[MBV77]

Originally Posted by Burnadell

Even if the money is appropriated, finding the people to fill the positions is problematic. Can you imagine how boring it must be to stand around all day doing nothing everyday waiting for years for a threat that may not ever happen. There is no easy solution, and I don’t think there is any solution to stop every lunatic/psycho out there who is intent on killing a large number of people.

Lots of school districts have their own PD’s now with officers on every campus in the district. They have no problem filling the positions. Lots of applicants every time positions open up.

But I agree, there’s not a way to keep evil people from doing evil things.


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[Burnadell]

Originally Posted by MBV77

Lots of school districts have their own PD’s now with officers on every campus in the district. They have no problem filling the positions. Lots of applicants every time positions open up.

But I agree, there’s not a way to keep evil people from doing evil things.


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Longview Police Dept is understaffed and cannot find people to fill their open positions, and I hear the same thing at other departments.

[tvc184]

Originally Posted by Burnadell

Longview Police Dept is understaffed and cannot find people to fill their open positions, and I hear the same thing at other departments.

Policing in the US is pretty much in a hiring/staffing crisis. Certainly there are some agencies that are getting sufficient recruits but I believe that the majority are not and many are struggling that man the streets.

[flywise]

Originally Posted by mwk128

Then why is this only a problem in the US?

It’s not

[flywise]

Originally Posted by Burnadell

Longview Police Dept is understaffed and cannot find people to fill their open positions, and I hear the same thing at other departments.

They way police are disrespected and criminalized in the media and inside many District attorney offices I find it hard to believe anyone would want to be a cop.

[Landrover]

Originally Posted by donpablo

Remember when this was a problem with post office employees? What did they do to turn things around?

Wow...........going postal was a BIG thing some years ago. Good point!

Originally Posted by Hardware

Why is it that no one talks about mental health since it's the one common denominator in all mass shootings? If you were off you rocker, unstable and posed a threat to society more than likely you were placed in an institution. This has all changed in the last 40 or so years and now most of the mental institutions have closed down. Instead now we medicate these people and allow them to walk around society hoping they take the medication and stay stable. The ACLU has fought for their rights so they have a choice to not be committed or take medicine so they have psychotic episodes in a public setting. Add the societal erosion of morals in the same period and the lack of respect for others and it's a scary outlook for our future.

You'll never stop pure evil in this world!!

Best we can do is get back to God, Family, Country/Patriotism and strong moral teachings for all in society. Stop being Reactive and start being Proactive so when we see signs years before someone acts we take action.

Your point on mental health facilities is SPOT ON. They were shut down by the federal government in the early 80's. I am talking about hundreds of facilities around the nation. Those patients were let out into the world to live on the streets, in & out of jails or prisons, and have really become a real public health issue. The mental health crisis is ONLY one part of the issue but it is definitely something that can be corrected.

[Txhunter3000]

I did the same remodeling that you did and saw the same things. The schools are secure for honest people only, the bad guys can get in quickly and do a lot of damage.

[Mudslinger]

Originally Posted by Landrover

Wow...........going postal was a BIG thing some years ago. Good point!


Your point on mental health facilities is SPOT ON. They were shut down by the federal government in the early 80's. I am talking about hundreds of facilities around the nation. Those patients were let out into the world to live on the streets, in & out of jails or prisons, and have really become a real public health issue. The mental health crisis is ONLY one part of the issue but it is definitely something that can be corrected.

This and the amount of drugs being given to these kids at a very young age!

[RiverRat1]

Originally Posted by Burnadell

Longview Police Dept is understaffed and cannot find people to fill their open positions, and I hear the same thing at other departments.

Originally Posted by tvc184

Policing in the US is pretty much in a hiring/staffing crisis. Certainly there are some agencies that are getting sufficient recruits but I believe that the majority are not and many are struggling that man the streets.

Maybe a good start would be to cut welfare and force people back to being productive.

[Big_gun]

Use “OUR” tax dollars to fortify doors at schools and ensure air locks at all entrances. Be buzzed in and secretary’s behind bullet proof glass to scan your DL etx. Even our small local school district has folks carrying onsite. Deterrents work for most. But as others have stated 40 years ago guns were not an issue. 98% of kids knew right from wrong. The 2% knew it but we’re just hellions. Lol


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[Backwoods101]

Originally Posted by Burnadell

If the school had a policy to keep doors locked, then, sadly, the teachers of that classroom got lax, as I am sure happens every day, then it was on them. If the outside door was supposed to be locked, then someone (superintendent, principal, maintenance personnel, whomever), is puckered up waiting for the investigation to be completed…assuming there was a good security policy in place. I can understand how most people could get lax thinking that it wouldn’t happen at their school.

Keeping the doors locked is an issue at my wife’s school. Her classroom is in a hallway that leads to the back parking lot and she finds the door unlocked daily.

[Txhunter3000]

Originally Posted by Backwoods101

Keeping the doors locked is an issue at my wife’s school. Her classroom is in a hallway that leads to the back parking lot and she finds the door unlocked daily.

Does this exterior door have a vision panel?
Does her classroom door have a vision panel?
If yes then anybody can get in it just might take a couple of seconds longer.

[Wampuscat]

Originally Posted by Walker

Dang, you guys go off point immediately. I said secure the schools like the capital

But wasn’t there a major insurrection at the capital where the Republicans nearly ended America as we know it?

And it seems many schools now with overcrowding have added “permanent temporary” buildings that are nothing more than job site trailers. It’s impossible to secure one of these. Maybe if these were replaced with Conex type buildings it’d be different for them. At least they can have welded locks.

I hate to think any school district should need to keep a paramilitary style force on hand. It’d take maybe 10 minutes for it to be infected with the same lame rules and recruiting that are in effect now. When I see 250 to 300 pound 5 1/2 foot tall women (or man) in uniform giving out speeding tickets, I shake my head that they could someday be the officer we may rely on to run into an active shooter situation.

[Backwoods101]

Originally Posted by Txhunter3000

Does this exterior door have a vision panel?
Does her classroom door have a vision panel?
If yes then anybody can get in it just might take a couple of seconds longer.

Very true


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[Texas452]

Originally Posted by mwk128

I’m not opposed to that but how do you pay for it? It seems like people always get riled up when someone suggests increasing their taxes. Not to mention finding enough qualified police to fill those roles. There are something like 800,000 police officers in America right now. Around 130,000 individual schools. If you say 4 or 5 officers assigned to each school building you are looking at almost doubling the number of police officers in the country. And if news reports are accurate it seems to me like a fair number of the ones we have right now can’t be trusted to defend the schools.

They just sent 40 billion to Ukraine

[HogHunter34]

Originally Posted by Backwoods101

Keeping the doors locked is an issue at my wife’s school. Her classroom is in a hallway that leads to the back parking lot and she finds the door unlocked daily.

Yeah it would take some monitoring system to alert a door is not locked. However, you still have to have someone respond to determine why. Staff are busy with kids so it would require security to check things out. No easy solution but certainly could find ways to improve measures & training and equipping. Will take funds

[RMW]

Each classroom in the schools needs to be locked and be made out of thick steel, also bulletproof glass on all classrooms.

[RiverRat1]

Question is how many shootings or how frequent do they need to happen in order to make our kids feel like prisoners? How many die in car wrecks on the way to school compared to mass shootings? Should we spend billions on cars to get them there safer?

People hate to talk about it but there is a price on life. For every "x" dollars taken out of society "x" people die. I can all but guarantee spending enough to arm each school with a trained guard or two (would be 250,000 guards) will suck out far more money and more people will die in round about ways. 12,500,000,000 per year would just be the manpower of actual guards at 50k per year/2 per school. We all know that number would be 3-10x that after adding in admin, government bs. So 50 to 100 billion per year to maybe save 15-20 people.

[waterdog]

ISRAEL they do indeed have armed security in every school and that an officer is very visible. All the security officers working in the schools are under the guidance of the Israel police, and the standards are high. Unannounced drills are frequent to test operational readiness. Regarding school buses, there is no such thing in Israel.

[OldRiverRat]

Originally Posted by mwk128

Then why is this only a problem in the US?

So enlighten us, what is the solution


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[OldRiverRat]

Originally Posted by SCREAMINREELS

Look up watchdogs.

Our school has a program called watchdogs and it’s actually a nationally recognized program. Being armed is not part of it but among other things keeping an eye on the campus is. Multiple dads there every day for this exact reason.

Yep one of the greatest things our district does
But I think they should arm them too


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[OldRiverRat]

Originally Posted by Burnadell

Even if the money is appropriated, finding the people to fill the positions is problematic. Can you imagine how boring it must be to stand around all day doing nothing everyday waiting for years for a threat that may not ever happen. There is no easy solution, and I don’t think there is any solution to stop every lunatic/psycho out there who is intent on killing a large number of people.

Lots of retired vets or previous military out there
Remember when post office jobs were mostly allocated to vets before those jobs began going to minorities ??


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[OldRiverRat]

Originally Posted by Big_gun

Use “OUR” tax dollars to fortify doors at schools and ensure air locks at all entrances. Be buzzed in and secretary’s behind bullet proof glass to scan your DL etx. Even our small local school district has folks carrying onsite. Deterrents work for most. But as others have stated 40 years ago guns were not an issue. 98% of kids knew right from wrong. The 2% knew it but we’re just hellions. Lol


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Uh oh, you know that whole drivers license deal is racist right? We would be disenfranchising some from entering a school


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[tvc184]

Originally Posted by Hardware

Why is it that no one talks about mental health since it's the one common denominator in all mass shootings?……

To the contrary, I think everyone talks about it. The question is what to do about it?

You have groups pushing red flag laws but then you have probably more powerful groups (such as probably a majority of TBH) that say it is too easily abused. Your next-door neighbor doesn’t like you or doesn’t like guns so he reports to the police that you have been acting strange lately and he is in fear. Poof!!! Sorry, not only could you not buy a gun, we are going to confiscate yours.

It is no different than safety or privacy. What are you willing to give up? What are you willing to trust the government with?

The liberals and progressives lean heavily on getting rid of the Second Amendment for safety. I say forget that. If you want safety and don’t mind giving up a right, get rid of the Fourth Amendment. When the police can stop anybody, anywhere, for no reason whatsoever, can enter your home or any other place without a warrant and search. I can guarantee that will put a huge dent in all crime and particularly violent crime.

So what are you willing to give up?

Everybody knows the issues including mental health. The question is how far do you go……

[Backwoods101]

Originally Posted by tvc184

To the contrary, I think everyone talks about it. The question is what to do about it?

You have groups pushing red flag laws but then you have probably more powerful groups (such as probably a majority of TBH) that say it is too easily abused. Your next-door neighbor doesn’t like you or doesn’t like guns so he reports to the police that you have been acting strange lately and he is in fear. Poof!!! Sorry, not only could you not buy a gun, we are going to confiscate yours.

It is no different than safety or privacy. What are you willing to give up? What are you willing to trust the government with?

The liberals and progressives lean heavily on getting rid of the Second Amendment for safety. I say forget that. If you want safety and don’t mind giving up a right, get rid of the Fourth Amendment. When the police can stop anybody, anywhere, for no reason whatsoever, can enter your home or any other place without a warrant and search. I can guarantee that will put a huge dent in all crime and particularly violent crime.

So what are you willing to give up?

Everybody knows the issues including mental health. The question is how far do you go……

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[Smell the Glove]

Originally Posted by rjtkdplus

From a friend of mine


HOW TO STOP SCHOOL SHOOTINGS: FROM A SECURITY EXPERT- by Drew Arthur

I have been reading and listening to knee jerk opinions full of emotion and advice how to solve the school shootings.

Anyone who says gun control is the way- doesn’t know anything about what works in security ans what does not work - that simple and they aren’t security experts


The problem is the folks I have heard from are not source security experts. True security experts are far and few.

I am one of those experts. I attended and passed the best U.S. Federal Security programs, training, and test at the Federal Law Enforcement Academy. I worked for 20 years as a Deputy U.S. Marshal. I worked as a Judicial Security Inspector (Protecting U.S.Federal Court Houses, and U.S. Federal Judges). In 2005 we have a tragic county courthouse shooting. I was requested to write site security assessments for the court house and several other county facilities. I did, and I wrote more for other courthouses and have taught how to make a family safe.

Pointing fingers at the gun is wrong. Guns are against the law in Mexico, but, last year more folks were killed in Mexico by these non-existent and outlawed guns, than the deaths by guns in Afghanistan.

Closer to home there has been an experiment going on in the huge city of Chicago, Illinois. Some of the countries toughest gun laws. Chicago constantly leads the country in huge numbers of murders by the non- existent guns that have been outlawed.

GUN CONTROL DOES NOT WORK ANYMORE THAN TAKING CARS AWAY FROM SOBER DRIVERS TO STOP DRUNK DRIVING WOULD WORK.

This is emotional knee jerk opinions by well meaning folks who do not truly understand a field they do not have expertise in.

WHAT WILL GIVE SCHOOLS SECURITY?

The answer is paying for the proper level of security to protect the children.

How to pay for it? That’s the question. Citizens do not want to pay higher taxes.

Municipalities, counties, the state, and federal government could all share in the cost.
Folks use half cent bonds to pay for firehouses. I think between all mentioned entities the schools can be funded for the proper level of security.

THE MECHANICS? HOW DO WE MAKE THE SCHOOLS SAFE.

HARD TARGET: The schools need to be a hard target to enter.

Doors: There needs to be one entrance way into the schools. All doors should have emergency push bars to exit only in case of fire or emergency.

School Resource Officers (School Police), and School Security Guards should patrol the schools, watch the monitors of all the cameras, check back packs, etc.

FENCING: There should be fences around the facility, with remote electric entrance and electric locking capabilities. 8 foot and climbing resistant with concertina wire on top. The fence will be around the parking lot and school.

All class rooms should have a tough locking system for students to shelter in place.and a bullet resistant, tornado resistant sheltering in -place portable room - they already have it- are the kids worth it? Yes.

Offer young law enforcement officers to live in a temp mobile home, free utilities and no rent on campus. Cover all shifts

TEACHERS:
All teachers and administration employees who want to carry a concealed weapon should be allowed to. They should have to qualify, and attend stop the shooter quarterly drills with the school resource officers and security officers.

TROUBLED STUDENTS:
Students who have violent tendencies, or have had violent arrest, should be a one school for students with these problems.

There are more things that can be done.

But, the problem is that folks want to blame everyone else, guns, 2nd amendment, etc. They don’t want to really fortify the schools, and provide true armed protection to save the children.

If police (enough to cover the campus) are not present on the campus they can only respond after a tragedy occurs.

If the campus in open, doors unlocked, and no bag checks, no officers, no armed teachers and administration, no fences, no security cameras, only one entrance, then there is no security.

You can take everyone’s guns, baseball bats, kitchen knives, and bad players will show up with them because it is like shooting fish in a barrel.THE KILLING ZONE IS GUN FREE ZONES.

Like the federal court houses , must have an ID, and walk through a metal detector, and everything goes through an x- ray machine . Have law enforcement there doing the screening.

If you live and want to protect your greatest resource, and investment in America’s future, spend the money and make the facility a hard target, one that a would be attacked will immediately fail when they try to enter the facility?

Armed security protects celebrities, banks, courts, jewelry stores, sporting events, and even anti gun celebrities and anti gun politicians.

SHOULDN’T YOUR CHILDREN HAVE THE SAME PROTECTION, AREN’T THEY AS IMPORTANT?

PAY FOR PROPER SECURITY AND MAKE IT A HARD TARGET.

This is the only way to stop violent perpetrators.

About the author: Drew was a U.S. Marine Infantryman/Military Police Officer, U.S. Army Infantryman, Municipal Police Officer, Deputy U.S. Marshal / Federal Criminal Investigator/ Senior Judicial Security Inspector (Ret). Drew holds Black Belts in Relson Gracie JiuJitsu, Judo, Japanese JuJitsu, Karate, Krav Maga, and is a certified instructor in Muay Thai.

He can be contacted (903)-509-1662— gracietyler.com

Thank you

Drew Arthur


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I’d like to hear more from Drew Arthur.

[dbaio1]

Originally Posted by Gumbo Man

Maybe because other countries teach there children that there will be consequences for bad and evil behavior. Maybe because other countries actually prosecute and imprison the bad and evil without giving years of slaps on the hand until they snap and make headline news.

My question is why did this problem not exist 50 years ago when a lot of us were growing up? We had guns. We had schools. Could it possibly be the fact that we were a real Christian Nation with morals as compared to now?

This ^^^^^^^^™™™™™

[BBK]

I agree. Schools need more/better security.


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[Hardware]

Originally Posted by tvc184

To the contrary, I think everyone talks about it. The question is what to do about it?

You have groups pushing red flag laws but then you have probably more powerful groups (such as probably a majority of TBH) that say it is too easily abused. Your next-door neighbor doesn’t like you or doesn’t like guns so he reports to the police that you have been acting strange lately and he is in fear. Poof!!! Sorry, not only could you not buy a gun, we are going to confiscate yours.

It is no different than safety or privacy. What are you willing to give up? What are you willing to trust the government with?

The liberals and progressives lean heavily on getting rid of the Second Amendment for safety. I say forget that. If you want safety and don’t mind giving up a right, get rid of the Fourth Amendment. When the police can stop anybody, anywhere, for no reason whatsoever, can enter your home or any other place without a warrant and search. I can guarantee that will put a huge dent in all crime and particularly violent crime.

So what are you willing to give up?

Everybody knows the issues including mental health. The question is how far do you go……

Never talked about giving up any rights as I'm totally against that happening for the sane public. As for mental health, yes the majority of private Americans totally understand that is a big issue with mass shootings.

On the other hand the politicians, media and government as a whole are not. They use it as a political tool to pushing more gun laws, bans or hardening schools. It will never change if the fore mentioned groups bury their heads in the sand and continue to be reactive to the current situation!!! You can go all the way back to Columbine and see signs far before any of these happened with the perpetrators action leading up to the act. My point was we need to be proactive and stop the act before it happens.

[Mike D]

Originally Posted by Txhunter3000

Does this exterior door have a vision panel?
Does her classroom door have a vision panel?
If yes then anybody can get in it just might take a couple of seconds longer.

This is easily overcome. Most vision panel are on the strike/knob side of the door. Move it all the way to the hinge side and make it bullet proof if needed.


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[Txhunter3000]

That's fine for doors with levers ( ADA requirements ) but not for exterior doors that have panics. I looked and a
bulletproof panel would have to be 2 1/4" thick to stop an AR or AK.
There are lots of other issues with doors too. You have ada guidelines on pressure to open and most schools have positive pressure and if the ac's are on they don't always close.

[Mike D]

Originally Posted by Txhunter3000

That's fine for doors with levers ( ADA requirements ) but not for exterior doors that have panics. I looked and a
bulletproof panel would have to be 2 1/4" thick to stop an AR or AK.
There are lots of other issues with doors too. You have ada guidelines on pressure to open and most schools have positive pressure and if the ac's are on they don't always close.

I would expect exterior doors to have mag locks that would automatically release in the event of an emergency.

If the HVAC system is properly balanced the pressure shouldn’t be an issue.


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[RiverRat1]

Do you guys think the billions if not trillions spent on airport security was worth it?

[Arrowsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike D

I would expect exterior doors to have mag locks that would automatically release in the event of an emergency.

If the HVAC system is properly balanced the pressure shouldn’t be an issue.


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The key phrase here is "if the HVAC system is balanced". I spent most of my career building and remodeling schools. When we CO'ed a project the system was balanced. It had to be before we walked away.....but I have been on many campuses (actually most existing campuses) where positive building pressure was preventing at least some exterior doors from latching correctly. Misadjusted closers we're also a problem. I would report any issues like this to the district HVAC coordinator or district locksmith. The district response to my reports would usually take days or even weeks to resolve the issue. I have increased the latch speed on many exterior door closers myself as a temporary fix. The HVAC (AC and outside air units) would take getting an HVAC contractor and a test and balance company onsite to resolve. This took scheduling and coordination that did not happen overnight.

I am sure school districts will watch this more closely now with this terrible tragedy in Uvalde. The problem is they seem to always get complacent as time passes.

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[Mudslinger]

Arrowsmith is spot on when he talks about getting anything repaired or fixed in a school district at least in LISD where I worked.