Cartridge Opinions, Shiloh Sharps

[250AI]

I think trying to compare recoil between smokeless and PB is had for me to do. I will say I loaded some smokeless in my 45/70 with I think they were 405 grain bullets at 1800 fps. Had a box of 20, shot 3 and the other 17 are still in the box and that was 25-30 years ago. The recoil was stout. If you are in the Leakey area you are welcome to come by and we can go shoot both rifles and then you can see first hand what it is like. I think on shilohs forum they use to post some of the BPCR match results. You might check there and see which calibers those folks are using. I think the 40's are pretty popular in BPCR shoots. I don't use a compression die with my loads. I do it the old fashion way with a dowel rod and a marker line. not very high tech but I doubt many hide hunters used a compression die.

[UltraMax]

Thanks for the replies. I’m seeing that I can load Black Horn 209 in the 100. Anyone have experience using/loading black horn?

[UltraMax]

Placed my order yesterday through Bill Goodman, went with a Sporter number 3, 45-90, 30” barrel, shotgun buttplate, extra fancy wood, an MVA long range vernier sight and other trimmings that will make it a true period correct Sharps. I’m excited but it will still take 4-6 months tho build.

[250AI]

Welcome to the club. Shooting Black Powder isn't for everyone. Some folks love it and some don't. Reloading for it isn't like smokeless and there is a learning curve but that is part of why we go back to using these old cartridges at least for me. The 45/90 made it's reputation as a target round but is a great hunting round as well. I don't think you will be disappointed and Shiloh makes beautiful rifles. Just on a whim (trying to think out side the box) I tried sabots in my 50/90 this year and was really surprised how well they shot. 90 grains of 1.5 black powder and a 290 gr. Barnes sabot. Very little barrel fouling (maybe because of the sabot) and they shot great. Now all I need is for the pigs to cooperate. I might try some in my 45/70. 4 to 6 months seems like a long time but it will be worth it. I look forward to seeing some pictures.

[UltraMax]

250, do you paper patch?

[250AI]

I have spent considerable time and effort on Paper Patch loads with mixed results. I patched to groove diameter and checking Shiloh forums seems like folks are going to bore diameter with good results. old age and health issues have caught with me and so I haven't tried bore diameter in my 45/70. I tried sabots in my 50/90 because I already had some and they are kind of like a modern day patch bullet. For me if your going to shoot sharps rifles one needs to at least give them a try. Do it like the old timers did. Good luck

[xman59]

Oh believe me I’ve looked into the 50-90 because I will mostly hunt with it, but I know that I will be shooting this thing in BPCR Silhouette matches and the 50-90 May be a little stout.

With the 45-70, smokeless loads and gas checked bullets I can outperform any black powder cartridge (this includes the 45-120) and the Shiloh’s can withstand Ruger no 1 pressures, which can push a 500 grn bullet up to 1800fps, which is within 150fps of a light load .458 Winchester of the same grain bullet, but....

I most likely would not push the rifle, or my shoulder, to that extreme.

A BP loaded 45-100 will push a 530 grain bullet around 1300-1400fps, the 45-70 is about 1100-1200fps.

My brain is telling me to get the 45-70 but I keep debating with myself.

listen to your brain this time!

[xman59]

444 Marlin

doesn't even slightly align with what he is trying to do

[UltraMax]

listen to your brain this time!

I went with the 45-90. I can use 45-70 reload data but still get the black powder charge I want.

[UltraMax]

I have spent considerable time and effort on Paper Patch loads with mixed results. I patched to groove diameter and checking Shiloh forums seems like folks are going to bore diameter with good results. old age and health issues have caught with me and so I haven't tried bore diameter in my 45/70. I tried sabots in my 50/90 because I already had some and they are kind of like a modern day patch bullet. For me if your going to shoot sharps rifles one needs to at least give them a try. Do it like the old timers did. Good luck

Orville Loomer’s book says to patch them to bore diameter. I guess when the gun fires the pressure indexes (balloons) the bullet (paper patch) into the grooves. I like the idea of using softer leads for hunting so I may try and get a 545 grain paper patch load shooting well at 200 yards first.

I’m also having Shiloh drill and tap for an MVA 28” scope.

[250AI]

You might be surprised by how much a soft lead bullet will expand. I used to dig bullets out from my back stop to see how much they expanded and was really surprised. When you're starting out with a bullet that is almost .5 inch in diameter it doesn't take much expansion to create a huge wound channel. I have an RHO scope on my 45/70 and it really helps in hunting situations. took a W.T. buck with it this year. I used a smokeless load at B.P. velocity (1200 FPS) and a 420 gr. WFNGC bullet. The wound channel was impressive. I've also used this bullet with B.P. with the same results. If you decide you want try P.P. let me know. I have quite an assortment of P.P. bullets (that I'm not going to use)you can try and hopefully save you some money. And you might want to start saving for the next one because one Sharps is never enough.

[UltraMax]

You might be surprised by how much a soft lead bullet will expand. I used to dig bullets out from my back stop to see how much they expanded and was really surprised. When you're starting out with a bullet that is almost .5 inch in diameter it doesn't take much expansion to create a huge wound channel. I have an RHO scope on my 45/70 and it really helps in hunting situations. took a W.T. buck with it this year. I used a smokeless load at B.P. velocity (1200 FPS) and a 420 gr. WFNGC bullet. The wound channel was impressive. I've also used this bullet with B.P. with the same results. If you decide you want try P.P. let me know. I have quite an assortment of P.P. bullets (that I'm not going to use)you can try and hopefully save you some money. And you might want to start saving for the next one because one Sharps is never enough.

It’s funny you say that because I ordered this one extra fancy. Im already wanting to order another and if I do I’m more than likely gonna get a standard grade model like a Hartford or business rifle.

And thanks, I may may take you up on the bullet offer.

[250AI]

My 50/90 is a business rifle, nothing fancy about it. I like it because it is more like what the hide hunters would have used. If you don't already have it the book on Sharps Rifles by Frank Sellers is excellent and well worth the money.

[UltraMax]

My 50/90 is a business rifle, nothing fancy about it. I like it because it is more like what the hide hunters would have used. If you don't already have it the book on Sharps Rifles by Frank Sellers is excellent and well worth the money.

I’ve read Sellers’ book and Venturino’s book as well. I have done a ton of research on these guns.

What can you compare the recoil of the 50/90 to?

[250AI]

My 50/90 has the military butt plate, round barrel. Shooting 550 gr. P.P. with 90-95 gr. of B.P. recoil is more than my 35 whelan with a 225 gr. bullet. About 7-8 shots -not off a bench is about all I care for in the 50/90 but it is strictly used for hunting so it isn't that bad. and you can drop down in bullet weight or powder weight. You are an experienced shooter and if you are using it for hunting you shouldn't have any trouble dealing with the recoil. I've haven't shot a 45/90 so don't know about recoil for it but I can say in a 45/70 with a 550 gr. P.P. bullet the recoil is more than one would want for shooting long strings. For hunting no problem. The same for the 50/90. If you are thinking about a second rifle in 50/90 I wouldn't let recoil be the determining factor in the round you choose. It's more about what do you intend to use it for. I don't know if we can make it happen but you are more than welcome to shoot mine and you can see for yourself.